You can

[forceman_02]

I know some of you love to hate.However it's been proven time and time again. You get better preformance from a system that uses 100% of it's air source.So do the math check your facts. Accuracy,and preformance is best served closed.

[ShorTi]

Wait, WTF?

[Tipp98WhisperEx]

http://img150.exs.cx/img150/2645/orlyheadset9un.jpg

[Apache Baller]

i think hes trying to say closed bolt is more accurate than open bolt

and if so


Originally posted by f2f4
FAIL.



:dodgy:

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by f2f4
FAIL.

[forceman_02]

Wisdom comes from listening.Not from when you talk.

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Wisdom comes from listening.Not from when you talk.

Stop trying to be philisophical. :rolleyes:

It's been proven time and time again that bolt operation does not affect accuracy.

[scarroll825]

Someone thinks their cool.:rolleyes:

[..!..('_')..!..]

Your a Retard.

[Tipp98WhisperEx]

Originally posted by ..!..('_')..!..
You're a retard.

Ficksed.

[coolrazer]

Well since we're throwing out fortune cookie quotes...

Death awaits you at every corner.

Live for today and forget yesterday.

What people don't understand, they fear. What they fear they seek to destroy.

The nice thing about standards, is that there are so many to choose from.

The visibility of an error is inversely proportional to the number of times you have looked at it.

Any philosophy that can be put in a nutshell belongs there.

:dodgy:

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by coolrazer
Well since we're throwing out fortune cookie quotes...

Death awaits you at every corner.

Live for today and forget yesterday.

What people don't understand, they fear. What they fear they seek to destroy.

The nice thing about standards, is that there are so many to choose from.

The visibility of an error is inversely proportional to the number of times you have looked at it.

Any philosophy that can be put in a nutshell belongs there.

:dodgy:


:dodgy:

[forceman_02]

There's more to performance when you use 100% which is best achieved from a closed bolt.Lets see dose your tire work better with or without an opening in the side.Guys a car with four wheels performs, Better than one with three. There are also a lot of variables as far as accuracy go's.Paint to barrel, quality of the paint,and the source of accelerate

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by forceman_02
There's more to performance when you use 100% which is best achieved from a closed bolt.Lets see dose your tire work better with or without an opening.Guys a car with four wheels performs, Better than one with three. There are also a lot of variables as far as accuracy go's.Paint to barrel, quality of the paint,and the source of accelerate

BOLT OPERATION DOES NOT AFFECT ACCURACY!!!

[Team Chokepoint]

Originally posted by coolrazer
Any philosophy that can be put in a nutshell belongs there.


ftw :tup:

[amzng_spyderman]

Originally posted by TiPpYsGaLoRe


BOLT OPERATION DOES NOT AFFECT ACCURACY!!!
TRUTH

the only thing that closed bolt markers generally have over open bolt markers is efficiency. however, the old shockers screw up the average, so the point is moot.

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by amzng_spyderman

TRUTH

the only thing that closed bolt markers generally have over open bolt markers is efficiency. however, the old shockers screw up the average, so the point is moot.

If you had said

TIPPY SPEAKS THE TRUTH,
I would have sigged it. Except smaller. :dodgy:

[Mr Murderdoll89]

Tomorrow is the day after today.

[OWNAGE]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Lets see dose your tire work better with or without an opening in the side.
...? And the word you are looking for is a "gash".

You have a noid and valve that are closed until you pull the trigger, which then opens to allow air through the gun.

[forceman_02]

overall performance guys. you guys need to get off the accuracy thing. And if your tire has a hole in it than that means it's FLAT

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by forceman_02
overall performance guys. you guys need to get off the accuracy thing. And if your tire has a hole in it than that means it's FLAT

And all electros and other stuff are jusr plain gas hogs? :rolleyes:

The advantage is marginal, brought down by slow speed, dated technology, and finicky operation.

[Erlosung]

Originally posted by forceman_02
overall performance guys. you guys need to get off the accuracy thing. And if your tire has a hole in it than that means it's FLAT
so open bolt markers are "flat"?

what exactly are you suggesting works more efficiently?

Warning: Reply at the risk of improving your thread!

[someday1188]

Originally posted by TiPpYsGaLoRe

The advantage is marginal, brought down by slow speed, dated technology, and finicky operation.
what are you implying?

[coolrazer]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Accuracy,and preformance is best served closed.

Originally posted by forceman_02
you guys need to get off the accuracy thing.

:dodgy:

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Originally posted by someday1188

what are you implying?

You know, I'm not sure. I'm just mad because he spawned a potenial flamefest.

[spydadude]

TIPPY SPEAKS THE TRUTH
:dodgy:
So, please listen to him. forceman is just doing this to be a jerk about the fact that he is wrong about Cockers not being the most accurate.

[forceman_02]

Units that use 100% of it's resources, Some of the markers are as stated GAS HOGGS. some do work better than others. Look if all markers were equal.Then why wouldn't they be the same price. That 's like calling a BMW a VW. They both have wheels ,motor,and seats. However don't they handle the same way. No. It's the same for anything you buy. It really all comes down to performance,and Taste.

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

I'm still having trouble seeing the point of this thread.

Spyda-:dodgy:

[slaminator3323]

Other than the fact its been proven closed bolt is not more accurate, most of the intelligent cocker guys will tell you that.

[bruc3]

force, it would be in your best interest to shut up before you really get owned......

Force :tdown:

[forceman_02]

General paintball talk forums. Are just that . Besides It's MY OPINION . If you don't like it thats fine. That's your opinion. Don't bite me for mine.

[Team Chokepoint]

The statement that autocockers are more accurate than other guns due to their closed bolt design is not your opinion. It is your false understanding of paintball marker operation. We are "biting" you for continuing to argue in favor of that false statement without providing any factional information to support yourself.

[trophyman582]

I respect your opinion, but I disrespect your obvious attempts to create a flame war.

[someday1188]

Originally posted by forceman_02
General paintball talk forums. Are just that . Besides It's MY OPINION . If you don't like it thats fine. That's your opinion. Don't bite me for mine.
learn. to use. periods. this is. really. annoying isn't. it?
Originally posted by forceman_02
I know some of you love to hate.However it's been proven time and time again. You get better preformance from a system that uses 100% of it's air source.So do the math check your facts. Accuracy,and preformance is best served closed.
you stated your opinion as a fact. that fact has been disproven over and over again.

sit down. shut up. and come back to us after you've passed remedial kindergarden english.

[Samrog777]

Originally posted by forceman_02
General paintball talk forums. Are just that . Besides It's MY OPINION . If you don't like it thats fine. That's your opinion. Don't bite me for mine.

You have a bad opinion.

It's been scientifically proven many times that a closed bolt design does not make it any more accurate. I have a shocker (open bolt, if you're that stupid) and I get about 5 pods and a halo off of a 3000 fill. Open bolts are not always gas hogs.

Overall performance? What the hell do you mean by that? My shocker is lighter, more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, and has resale. If that's not overall performance, I have no idea in hell where you're getting your ideas. I hope this thread gets locked.

[forceman_02]

Okay I seen where this went wrong. I forgot to put can. in the form of a question. As to the question if a unit has a close system as to where 100% of the air expels the ball. Dose that not give you better performance and shot patten. Compare that to a unit that has to use its air to close the bolt first and then discharge the ball. There are some other details I can go into if need be. Also I was under the impression an open bolt was more or less a blow forward design.

[Tipp98WhisperEx]

Well, when you put it that way, all I have to say is this.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[someday1188]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Okay I seen where this went wrong. I forgot to put can. in the form of a question. As to the question if a unit has a close system as to where 100% of the air expels the ball. Dose that not give you better performance and shot patten. Compare that to a unit that has to use its air to close the bolt first and then discharge the ball. There are some other details I can go into if need be. Also I was under the impression an open bolt was more or less a blow forward design.
just shut the hell up dude. you really aren't worth my time, but if you make me i will go all-out on you.

for your sake, just leave.

[forceman_02]

Then stop reading my opinion.

[Samrog777]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Okay I seen where this went wrong. I forgot to put can. in the form of a question.

Way to try and cover your stupidity up.

[Yakb0]

so where does a Nova, and other boltless guns fit in?

[Team Chokepoint]

Oooh, someday's here.

:dunce: <--- party hat :party:

:popcorn:

[forceman_02]

couldn't tell you. Never had the chance to take a nova apart. It has a open for the breech. The balls drop in.If the breech stays open. Would that not let air flow back thur the open breech,and allow for ball chop?

[someday1188]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Okay I seen where this went wrong. I forgot to put can. in the form of a question. As to the question if a unit has a close system as to where 100% of the air expels the ball. Dose that not give you better performance and shot patten. Compare that to a unit that has to use its air to close the bolt first and then discharge the ball. There are some other details I can go into if need be. Also I was under the impression an open bolt was more or less a blow forward design.
here we go again.
Originally posted by forceman_02
Okay I seen where this went wrong.

me too, somewhere around the "post new thread" button.

I forgot to put can. in the form of a question.

and remind me again how the addition of the word "can" would have helped this catastrophic train wreck of misused punctuation and random letters that you tried to pass off as a post gain some form of direction or clarity? i'm really curious on this one.

As to the question finally! the main event!

if a unit has a close system as to where 100% of the air expels the ball.
time to get out the good old "illiterate moron to english" translator. so you're saying that 100% of the air used in a closed bolt system goes into firing the paintball? but how does the bolt move then? NEXT!

Dose that not give you better performance and shot patten.
no, no it doesn't. NEXT!

Compare that to a unit that has to use its air to close the bolt first and then discharge the ball.
as opposed to a unit with the exact opposite timing? a unit that first uses air to fire the ball and then uses air to open then reclose the bolt? i truly don't see what point you're getting at here, if any. NEXT

There are some other details I can go into if need be.
please do, i enjoy picking fools like you apart.

Also I was under the impression an open bolt was more or less a blow forward design.

then you have just proved your ignorance to everyone here.
NEXT.

[DeAtH^MaTrIx]

YOU SUCK

[PaintballSnoopy]

heres a fortune cookie for yeah:
" you will get new clothes"

me and my friend got that:dodgy:

[xXxBaconxXx]

If you own a paintball marker, throw it out, your pathetic.

[slaminator3323]

We should make a thread, and link all threads that someday has pwned someone in to that thread.

[forceman_02]

Well lets see when a autococker is aired up and ready to fire. Then Yes 100% of the air from the valve is used to move the ball down the barrel. The valve in the autococker only controls the movement of the ball. the hammer is pushed by the spring.not air.Too recock, the three-way activates the ram,Which in turns pushes the back block that has a pin that holds the bolt.Which is all done by the LPR. The main Valve only pushes the ball. This being 100% of the air. And yes the bolt has nothing to do with accuracy.

[someday1188]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Well lets see when a autococker is aired up and ready to fire. Then Yes 100% of the air from the valve is used to move the ball down the barrel.
and when a proto is aired up, 100% of the air in the dump chamber is used to move the ball down the barrel.

now make your point. oh, that's right, you never had one to begin with! :idea:

[spydadude]

Dude, just shut up already. You didn't have to create a flamefest, okay? You decided to out of sheer stupidity. You should be glad that Someday actually graced the presence of this horrible thread. Nobody is going to agree with you.

And Tippys: :dodgy:.

[Crede777]

My Nexus Ego is probably:
1. More accurate than your cocker,
2. More efficient (1200 shots off of a 4500 fill),
3. Faster than your cocker,
4. And hawter too.

Oh, and I don't see where the "tire has a slash in it" thing has to do with ANYTHING. It's not like there's constantly air leaking from my bolt. Open bolt doesn't always equate to blowback either.

[someday1188]

Originally posted by Crede777
My Nexus Ego is probably:

1. More accurate than your cocker,
they're all the same man, we just established this :)

2. More efficient (1200 shots off of a 4500 fill),
that's all? no seriously that sounds really low for an RDPV gun. you should be getting something like 1600. weird. anyways my fastback gets about a case off a 68 so there's my bragging moment for the day :D.

3. Faster than your cocker,
maybe his, but just wait till my mQ comes in :devil2::dodgy:

4. And hawter too.
fastback>all :dodgy::dodgy::dodgy:

[slaminator3323]

Well we hope your ego is better I mean it should come with a better reg.

[Omegaboy13]

You're all retarded, the only person who is cool here is me. I rock.

[Paintballshurt]

Originally posted by someday1188
that's all? no seriously that sounds really low for an RDPV gun. you should be getting something like 1600. weird. anyways my fastback gets about a case off a 68 so there's my bragging moment for the day

Perhaps Crede uses a 45/45. In that case, 1200 shots with an Ego would be about right.

As to Forceman's whole "opinion" on closed bolt versus open, I am not even going to listen to anything he says until he can show me solid statistics.

[QuiksilverMV]

Originally posted by Mr Murderdoll89
Tomorrow is the day after today.

ZOMGWTFLOLLERSKATESROFLCOPTERSITIS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !

[Paintballshurt]

Originally posted by QuiksilverMV


ZOMGWTFLOLLERSKATESROFLCOPTERSITIS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !

Excuse me, that is a serious disease and I will thank you not to make fun of it.

[QuiksilverMV]

Originally posted by Paintballshurt


Excuse me, that is a serious disease and I will thank you not to make fun of it.

ok captain planet

[Paintballshurt]

Originally posted by QuiksilverMV


ok captain planet

He was a great man, but seemed a little bit fruity. Then again, what environment-crazy person doesn't give off a homoerotic vibe...:dodgy:

[slaminator3323]

He was always smiling.

[..!..('_')..!..]

Originally posted by forceman_02
overall performance guys. you guys need to get off the accuracy thing. And if your tire has a hole in it than that means it's FLAT

Yes, that may be true. But if a bus is going down a hill at 40mph and one of the back wheels falls off, does the bus flip when it makes a sharp turn?

[QuiksilverMV]

Originally posted by Paintballshurt


He was a great man, but seemed a little bit fruity. Then again, what environment-crazy person doesn't give off a homoerotic vibe...:dodgy:

true dat, when you save the planet in metallic tights i guess you are required to have some homoness to you :dodgy:

[amzng_spyderman]

Originally posted by forceman_02
Well lets see when a autococker is aired up and ready to fire. Then Yes 100% of the air from the valve is used to move the ball down the barrel. and where does the air from a valve go in an open bolt electropneumatic marker, like a timmy? The valve in the autococker only controls the movement of the ball. the hammer is pushed by the spring.not air.Too recock, the three-way activates the ram,Which in turns pushes the back block that has a pin that holds the bolt.Which is all done by the LPR. which is all powered by air.The main Valve only pushes the ball. This being 100% of the air. if you don't count the air used to recock the marker, yeah, it's 100%. And yes the bolt has nothing to do with accuracy. BREAKTHROUGH!
you're trying to wax intellectual when you don't even know how all open bolt markers operate? that's comparable to a mechanic lecturing somebody on their new tires when he doesn't know that there's an inner tube inside them.

[Mentalmonkey10]

:popcorn: I am going to get bored, so i am going to do my first and final post in this right... about... now. the only thing that closed bolt could possibly do (to accuracy) is make an accuracy difference that is soo small that it is easily overlooked and passed due to that it is small enough that it dosn't matter. i am talking about it possibally makeing it... like... %0.000000000000000000000345 better than open bolt. what, you aming for a hole under my ball detent or something?:P Thats my thoughts on closed bolt. oh, ya. amzing_spyderman. what happened to your avvy? i liked that one.

[Benjabino]

Ficksed.
grammar-owned!!!!

poop > this thread

[Paintballshurt]

what happened to that completely awesome quote that used to be in your sig?

Yes, I also enjoyed that quote.:cool:

[United Idiots]

The whole tire and paintball thing flat out confused the **** out of me.

[Ebonclaw]

Somewhere we went from comparing closed/open bolt accuracy to why some paintball markers are like...um..cars...and then we moved onto bad punctuation, and then life threatening diseases and somewhere the godawful Nova got brought into all this (which is neither closed nor open bolt, it's a reciprocating barrel design similar to the DarkStar)...and um....yeah.....
Buuuut...
As long as we're comparing devices and things that use the full extent of their resources tha have NOTHING to do with paintball guns, let me try some.
Okay, so if we have a tire that is full and the we start driving and the tire heats up and the air inside it expands...what happens? Increased tire wear from overpressurization and the chance for a blowout.
So if a car uses all of its resources, what do you have? A car with an empty gas tank.
If your tires are just slighty underinflated, does that make the car drive crooked? Not necessarily.
But let's not limit it to cars.
If the government used 100% of its resources, we'd be royally boned.
If the military used 100% of its resources, the entire earth would bea charred chunk of land.
If we consume all of the earth's resouces eventually running ourselves out of oil (since Captain Planet got dragged into this) then how does that benefit us?
Point being, let's not compare paintball gun to tires. It's really impossible to make an argument out of.

Moving on, a paintball does not care what method/bolt/gun or anything else that was used to propel it. All a paintball cares about when it leaves the barrel is the angle and speed at which it was fired and situational variables like wind and spin.
On paper, a Stingray II is just as accurate as a DM4. In practice, it is not. Why?
Recoil. Closed bolt operation has very little recoil, which means that the angle of which a paintball exits a barrel does not vary as greatly during rapid firing since the user can control it better. The Stingray II kicks like a 44 magnum with a 180 round hopper.
However, some designs, like electronumatic open bolt operation also produce very little kick. The DM series, Timmys, and arguably Ions to name a few have lower recoil than others, due to the fact there are very few moving parts and very little recoil. Have you ever seen one of these things shoot? A fine tuned one can have ball on ball accuracy. So tell me how an open bolt marker can achieve the same thing a 'cocker can? Because your argument is that it can't, that closed bolt will ALWAYS win over open bolt. And it doesn't.

[slaminator3323]

Nicely said. Damn I'm falling in love with the quick reply.

[f2f4]

Wow, this thread was hawt. Looks like Forceman still has quite a bit to learn. :tdown:

Oh, and lemme say it anyway:

FAIL.

:D

[spydadude]

Wow, this thread was hawt. Looks like Forceman still has quite a bit to learn. :tdown:

Oh, and lemme say it anyway:

FAIL.

:DQFTW FAIL!

[Crede777]

So tell me how an open bolt marker can achieve the same thing a 'cocker can? Because your argument is that it can't, that closed bolt will ALWAYS win over open bolt. And it doesn't.
Ebowned
Forceman's argument leaks more than one of those tires previously discussed.

And to further Ebon's point, my Ego is definitely as accurate, if not more so, than my 04 Mini Orracle cocker. So saying that Cockers are more accurate than all open bolt markers just...simply...isn't...true.

[paintballer930]

If a person argues a stupid point they are dumb, so stop it.

[k00leo]

YOU SUCK


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/spyderp8balla/banned.gif

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/spyderp8balla/banned.gif

NOT BANNED

[k00leo]

pshhh not yet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/spyderp8balla/waytogo.gif

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

Still not ban worthy.

[someday1188]

how the hell is this thread still open?

[xtremesnipr223]

Give me all the meeeeeat! [/zim]

[Crede777]

Going back on topic:
Timmies, Egos, Matrixes, and Angels > 99% of all Autocockers.

[Erlosung]

Paging Dr. Kevorkian, we have a thread in need of death.

[p8ntfreak98]

What the hell are all you idiots babbling about?

[snaretan]

I think what he was trying to originally say is that a closed bolt marker uses less gas to propel a paintball and recock compared to an open bolt design. It's understandable since you can tune so many of the parts of an autococker. Of course you can tune an open bolt marker to be as effecient as well, it would just take a lot more work. Unfortunatly he doesn't realize that operating systems are more than open bolt or closed bolt.

It's kind of pointless to argue about this, so mods please close this thread to stop the hate.

Tan