First Gun?

[volcom0729]

well i've been paintballing for a few years, but never really invested in a marker of my own, always used a friends or just a rental :|.so i was looking into it for the past week, and was thinking of this

Spyder Pilot ACS '05
14" Smart Parts Teardrop Barrel
Dye Stickys(read the reviews that the grips on the pilot are bad so...but then also heard if you wanted to put stickys on it, that you needed to cut a few things and that the screws didn't fit or something?)
Halo TSA Backman LED Loader
20oz c02 Tank

my budget is is aiming towards $300-$350(shopping at paintball-discounters.com).

im not sure if that is all i need(elbows? feednecks? or any other things i need).

so i was hoping you guys could help me out, with if i should even get a pilot, if the gun is a good setup, if there are better upgrades, and answer the questions on other things(the stickys and elbows/feednecks).

[paintballer279]

First off, welcome to the real paintball marker world. That set-up that you listed is a great set-up. You will need to get the plastic Spyder feedneck, or just upgrade it to a regular sized feedneck. The Pilot ACS '05 is a great marker, but not worth the price tag of over $250. Sure you can get it, but you could get the Smart Parts Ion. A high end electro, for only $260. Though capped at 17 bps, you wont be capping it at all for a while stock. Neither will you cap the 20 bps the Pilot can achieve after many upgrades. The Dye Spyder Stickies 3 will fit properly and perfectly. You have to make sure that they are drilled holes for the Spyder ESP triangular screw holes. They also have to have the sear part cut off enough for it to move back and forth properly. They have specific grips for that anyways. There are always upgrades and better upgrades. Instead of a Teardrop, you could get a barrel kit. The Freak, Evil, and J&J Kits are some of the best. Those cost much more too. Instead of a Pilot ACS, I would get a SmartParts Ion, Evil Barrel Kit, Lucky Stage 5 Bolt Kit, Halo B or Reloader B, and 68/3000 Crossfire Nitrogen Tank. That is much more than what your price range is, but is well worth it. The Ion has eyes, which are better than the ACS Bolt because if the eyes don't see a ball, it wont shoot, but a bolt will always shoot without eyes, and may cause chops. The set-up I listed is well worth over $700, but could leave it stock with a CP One piece instead, Halo B, and the 68/3000 Crossfire Tank. That would be $545 at least. You would look on Ebay for cheaper prices too. Overall, there are many more guns better for the price, but the Ion needs a fast hopper and a nitrogen tank. You really need a nitrogen tank for you Pilot, if you get the Pilot. The speeds would be dangerous for the gun on CO2. If you did get Co2, get it anti-siphoned at least. You can pick up a 47/3000 for around $64.

[drunkenMonkey]

i wouldn't order from paintball discounters. i did when i ordered my imagine, and i took forever to be delivered, because they dont tell you if something is in stock and the gun wasn't in stock so i ended up waiting like 3 weeks for it go get to me. you should try action village.

as far as your gun, a pilot is good, but not worth the cash. it performs no differently than any other e-spyder, so i suggest buying an imagine, and upgrading it.

For you gun set up, i suggest getting an imagine, 14" teardrop or progressive, dye stickys (they protect the electro's better than stock grips), clamping feedneck (fits any loader, better than the plastic p.o.s. neck that comes stock with spyders, and they make your loader sit lower than the plastic neck), and the tsa backman (like you have listed), 12v revvy, or a reloader 1. Those are the basic ups that most spyder users put on their gun. After you buy these, go ahead and mod to your hearts desire.

that should cost you about 240-250ish. that leaves about 100 for you to get a steel hpa tank. they usually run about $70. after all this, you should have a decent spyder setup

[volcom0729]

thanks for the input, but the pilot acs one im getting is at 150, which is at paintball-discounters.com, the ion is at 230.i did look into the ion before the pilot.only thing holding me back on the ion was the fact that would it be worth the extra $ if i only play like maybe once every 2 months or so.

ok so after what you said...this would be my total for the pilot w/some of the other suggestions you advised(due to budget :()

pilot 05
14" teardrop
HPA 48ci 3000psi tank
Halo TSA Backman LED
spyder feedneck adapter plastic

$332.29 total w/out the other things like (barrel + tank covers, oil, origns, etc)...gonna hold off on the grips for now

EDIT:

towards drunken

ok just checked out action village.thanks for the tip on discounters.didnt even realize they never told you wahts in stock and whats not.and action village has the same prices or cheaper, so tahts good

also looking at the fenix acs...is it basically same as any other e-spyder, just different looks and what not?

[paintballer279]

The Fenix ACS is only different than the Pilot ACS in the way that the Fenix has the good feed neck and you don't need the plastic elbow. If your only going once every 2 to 3 months, get the Pilot. Don't waist money on something that you are only going to use 4 to 5 times a year.

[volcom0729]

The Fenix ACS is only different than the Pilot ACS in the way that the Fenix has the good feed neck and you don't need the plastic elbow. If your only going once every 2 to 3 months, get the Pilot. Don't waist money on something that you are only going to use 4 to 5 times a year.

yeah i did notice that the fenix had the feed neck on it with the better pictures action village provides.well i'll toy around and see which one.thanks alot for the help.

[Sheps]

Try looking at the Vexor Eye, it is quite possibly the most complete (read: upgraded) low-end marker ever. Naturally, the stock parts aren't so good, but a cheap regulator is better than none, right? But if you decide you'd rather go with a spyder, get one without the ACS bolt and spend the money you saved on a better hopper.

You also might want to look into the J&J ceramic and CP 1-piece barrels, they very good, and cheap too. Also check out High Pressure Air, it is much better for your marker, but the steel tanks tend to cost around $70-$90 US.

[volcom0729]

yeah i was going to probably get a 68/3000 HPA tank, its like $64.

[volcom0729]

oh btw, does anyone know how long the marker battery would last, after charging it over night? the fields i go to are usually from like 9AM-4PM so would it be better to buy an extra battery and charge both...or should the one charged one overnight be good?

[drunkenMonkey]

Try looking at the Vexor Eye, it is quite possibly the most complete (read: upgraded) low-end marker ever. Naturally, the stock parts aren't so good, but a cheap regulator is better than none, right? But if you decide you'd rather go with a spyder, get one without the ACS bolt and spend the money you saved on a better hopper.

You also might want to look into the J&J ceramic and CP 1-piece barrels, they very good, and cheap too. Also check out High Pressure Air, it is much better for your marker, but the steel tanks tend to cost around $70-$90 US.

wow, i completely forgot about the vexor eye. seriously that would be a better over all choice. the board is capped at 20, it comes stock with break beam eyes, and it is about $10 cheaper than a pilot. a pilot is still a decent gun, but seriously consider the vexor eye

[equipmentcounts]

try getting an ion from rcx you can probally get an ion and agitated loader for about 240 and then you could get a n2 tank for like 40-50 bucks then some other stuff and it would be all under 350

[volcom0729]

yeah i know about the ion...but i just don't need something like that especially if im just playing once every 2-3 months, maybe a bit more during summer but still...i don't want some high end marker for my first gun, but a decent one to start out with and as i get more comfortable with handling and maintaining my own gun.

but still need an answer on teh battery.will a battery charged over night last me from 9AM-4PM?

[Jr.]

yea the battery should last and u should think about getting an E Cocker there just about the same price as the pilot or watever and alot better try ebay for a used cocker

[Sheps]

yea the battery should last and u should think about getting an E Cocker there just about the same price as the pilot or watever and alot better try ebay for a used cocker
Are you kidding? An E-cocker for his first marker?

[Jr.]

or a mech cocker dude cockers are nice guns y is that so bad he wanted to get comfortable with handling and maintaning a gun and wat better gun to do it on then a cocker wether mech or e2 its the perfect gun to do it on and there just good guns not that any other guns is bad im just saying im bleeding wat i know

[HurleyHero67]

yeah i know about the ion...but i just don't need something like that especially if im just playing once every 2-3 months, maybe a bit more during summer but still...i don't want some high end marker for my first gun, but a decent one to start out with and as i get more comfortable with handling and maintaining my own gun.

but still need an answer on teh battery.will a battery charged over night last me from 9AM-4PM?
Your point is well taken, but you have to understand most of us have seen tons of people go through what you're going through and are now kicking themselves for wasting $200-$300 on beginner markers/upgrades when they could've just gotten an Ion and skipped that whole step. What you're thinking seems logical, I know, but if you like paintball you'll probably end up wanting better performance after a few months. The Ion is high-end in performance, but low-end in price.

Just humor yourself and PM rcxpaintball about a package deal he could hook you up with, and consider it.

[volcom0729]

yeah i'll send them an email when i get the time...rcxpaintball.com?

anyway...if i do go ahead and get the ion from them, what would be a recommended barrel for this marker?or is the stock ok to use for now.

[Tweeter]

Forget the ion. What you need is a Stock class/pump marker. If you're buying all this on a budget, I'd think you also have to play on a tight budget. Pick up a:
phantom pump -- 230
stock class harness -- 20
bag of 50 10 round reusable tubes -- 25
good mask -- 80
total -- 355 (lower if you scrimp a little or buy a used phantom)

What you earn:

Icy cool stock player nerves that all the lady types go wild for
A fatter wallet that all the lady types go wild for
Actual skill...that lady types might notice and go sort of wild for
Way more fun... which you probably go wild for
Scenario and speedball marker
Sweet rep. because you don't rely on spraying paint (Lady types might go wild for that too)
And a comfortable spot in the CCI/Pump marker forums.

Think about it.

[volcom0729]

lol, i had a laugh at that one.but its not my playing thats on a budget, its just on the equipment(just the market setup).all i need is the marker.i dont need anything else like the goggles, because like i said, ive been playing for a few years so obviously i wouldve invested in my own goggles(pretty nice ones too).i set myself a budget on the marker because i didn't want to go out and buy some pro tourney setup or what not as my first gun.just a low end marker(or a high end one with a low price...ion) that will do me fine for maybe 1/2 year or something so i get used to having my own.of course if i get a nice deal off of rcx, then obviously id probably use the ion longer than 1/2 year or something.cause after what hurley said, it makes sense to get the ion.since it is a high end marker set at a low end cost, its affordable, it probably performs alot better, and it would serve me better in the long run instead of having to fix or keep upgrading parts on the low end stuff.thanks though for the suggestion on a pump(and i don't need to impress the ladies;);))

[nahthan]

What you need is a Stock class/pump marker.
No.

An Imagine, or Ion... those'd be my two choices.

They're both much more practical than a stockclass/pump marker.
1. it's hard to get a decent ROF on a "true" pump of any type. (not pneumatic assist with an auto trigger)
2. You might get frustrated with the lower ROF when you go to play... especially if you only play once every few months.
3. The initial cost in buying a decent pump marker is relatively high... considering what you actually get

[paintballer279]

Why would anyone get a pump marker as a first gun? My first two choices would be the Imagine or Ion. Like what Nathan said. They are both superb guns for the price. The Imagine is $64 at actionviallge.com. Imagine is capped at 13 bps, and you wont be capping that anytime soon with the stock trigger. The Imagine does need to be upgraded at first possession, but you will do that more as time goes on. The Ion, capped at 17 bps, you will never get up to that. Well, after many years of practice and some upgrades, you will be able to get around 15 or 16. Back to the pump suggestion. You can only bet a max of 5 bps on a pump, when you can get at least 8 on a mechanical and at least 13 on an electronic marker.

[volcom0729]

yeah don't worry...the thought of having a pump never crossed my mind.from my perspective, tweeter's post was kinda funny for me cause it seemed like a joke.

but i did email rcx, now just waiting on a response to what they'll come up with on the ion.but i decided that range would be from 300-400 since it gives me more breathing room to get good things, instead of shorting myself out.

i've also practiced walking the trigger and all that on my friends gun before.im decent, but no where as fast as i've seen others.

[nahthan]

You can only bet a max of 5 bps on a pump

Yea, cause it's impossible to a) out shoot a revvy with a Sniper.
b. Outshoot a revvy with an illusion
or
c) outshoot a gravity fed hopper with a Phantom.

Oh wait, I've done A and C, and know people that can do all three.

[TheSpy11]

You can only bet a max of 5 bps on a pump, when you can get at least 8 on a mechanical and at least 13 on an electronic marker.


Wait a minute. If anyone can do 5 on a pump, then he might be superman. 5-6bps is the realistic cap for a non-modded mechanical. A pump is more like 1bps.

[volcom0729]

hey, so i got in contact with rcx, and he just needed the info on what tank n hopper...i told him the crossfire 47/3000 as my tank and the viewloader evlution II as my hopper.just wondering ont he hopper, if i need to get like a feed neck or anything, like if it doesnt fit on the ion.

[TheSpy11]

Well, the stock feedneck DOES fit the Egg2, but it's a pain to use because it's so tight and puts the Egg's feedneck in danger. I actually broke the seal on the Loctite on my ION's feedneck when trying to get my Egg off. That says something about the strength of the '05 Egg feednecks. Just get an aftermarket clamping feedneck right away to save yourself the trouble.

[nahthan]

pump is more like 1bps.
I really hope you were being sarcastic.

[volcom0729]

well i guess this is kinda good news.im now able to boost my budget up to $500 :), since xmas and all is coming around.i had 350 from my bday...and xmas is comin out so i figured why not.so i guess its time for some newer suggestions, or keep the ion in mind, with maybe better upgrades.

EDIT:

right now i just need suggestions on a barrel or barrel kit for the ion.was thinkin maybe the evil driver?

[Jr.]

nah evil driver bad get a CP barrel or best bet REDZ PEPPERSTICK barrel kit best kit around really it is or get an empire kit freak kit many to chose from but no evil

[volcom0729]

wel for cp..which one would i get? cause the 1piece ones, they dont have threads for the impulse...they have the a5,98,autococker,and spyder threads for em.and for the 2 piece CPs, its the same problem, they dont have any threads for em.just spyders and autocockers

EDIT:
j/w whats the advantages of havin a kit, besides bein able to have different bore sizes?

and what about hte stiffi imp threaded ones? i was looking at the ion upgrade guide, and it had those in there.just dont know what bore size to get if its any good.

[paintballer279]

Yes. They do make an Impulse threaded CP One Piece Classic.

http://store.customproducts.us/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodinfo&productID=1&categoryID=9

They have it on sale for $45. A very good deal, for a very good barrel.

The kits allow you, not only to have different backs and bore sizes, but so that you can have many different paint options. Some .689 paints work better with .691 than their supposedly .689 barrel bore recommendation.

The Stiffi Barrels are very good, light, accurate, and quality. They are expensive as compared to the CP One Piece, and J&J Ceramic Barrels which are just if not a little less accurate, but with the right balls and bore sized balls, they will be just as good as the Stiffi Line up.

[TheSpy11]

Cp 1-pieces come in Imp threads. Where were you looking at them? Someone should have them for sale. Try www.froogle.com

Edit: paintballer stole my thunder

[volcom0729]

well i was looking at action village...they only had the other threads, but no imps.but oh well, guess i can always order it directy off of CP.but what bore size would u recommend, for the ion and the cp barrel?like do any boresize work good on them? or does one work better than the other.also, what paint would u recommend?doesn't have to be some top notch tourney one, but it can be a decent one.

[paintballer279]

I would recommend the .689 bore size. .689 bore sized paint is the most common and t is very hard to find anything under that size. All bore sizes work differently, but no one is better than the other. The only way to get the "best" bore size or barrel is to find the best paint and bore match. There is no best barrel or bore size. One barrel will work better with Scorch than another, but it doesn't mean that the first one is better, it just means that it works better with that specific paintball. All bore size work well on them, it just depends on what size ball you put in the bore of the barrel.

[volcom0729]

alright, i guess i'll have to toy around for a bit to find one.

so right now...waitin on RCX to give me a price for the ion/hopper/marker pack.

so basically if everything goes out well,

Maker: SP Ion
Tank: Crossfire 47/3000 HPA tank
Hopper: Halo TSA Backman LED(anyone know if takes 8AA or 9v?)
Feedneck: New Designz Impulse Halo Low
Barrel: CP Classic or CP 2 Piece Barrel Pro(anyone know if its good? or just go with like the k5 Control Bore back, and then the CP tip..probably goin for 12" or 14")

well thats it for now...leavin the grips and trigger stock for now, and upgrade them later.

[paintballer279]

The Halo TSA Backman takes 8 AAA or 2-9volts. The CP Two Piece is just the 2 piece version of the classic, and it depeds on what paint you use. More for the people who like to alternate the short tips, they can change thm as ong as they have the same threads. Look at reviews for other things too.

[volcom0729]

yeah...i might alternate cause the field i play...it like switches every few rounds.like from woodsball, to airball, to some field with a mix of everything.so i guess get the 2 piece...so maybe the 2k5 Bore Control back piece, then get like a 12" front and 14" front?

[paintballer279]

Yeah. That whole barrel length would be about 16'' with the 12'' tip at least, and with the 14'' tip it would be 18'' total. Or is that the whole length of the barrel? The best way to get two piece barrels with aftermarket back are kits. They come in a variety of sizes from 12'' to 18'' totals. If you have the money, i would highly recommed a barrel kit from Evil or Freak sets.

[volcom0729]

i think when u get the front tip that says like x front 14", thats gonna be the complete length of the whole barrel after u add it on.

so backpiece is like 4"...get the front piece that would make the whole barrel 12", itd be like 8" long really..and to make it 14", itd be 10" long

[volcom0729]

hey will the New Designz Impulse Halo Low feed neck, be fine with any kind of halo loader? im planning on getting the halo backman tsa led.

[paintballer279]

The Halo TSA Backman has a normal sized feedneck. The Reloader B and Halo B are the only hoppers with the extra large feedneck that you have to sand down.

[volcom0729]

so, the stock feedneck would be fine on the halo tsa? or should i still get an aftermarket feedneck since hte stock one is a little high.

[Coenen]

What I want to know is why the TSA? It's not going to be fast enough to bring out the potential of the Ion, the EggII that you were considering earlier would be a much wiser investment IMO.

[nahthan]

What I want to know is why the TSA? It's not going to be fast enough to bring out the potential of the Ion, the EggII that you were considering earlier would be a much wiser investment IMO.
And a used Egg is easily around hte same price as the TSA...

[volcom0729]

i think you guys keep thinking that im buying these at like full retail price.im getting it off of action village, which has really nice discounts.yeah i know the tsa, only goes 13-15bps, while the egg goes 19bps...but you guys really think im gonna even get close to those numbers?i mean this is my first marker.i doubt i could walk the trigger that fast.even with teh different fire modes, i wont be using it much because the field i play at usually doesn't allow it.even though i can use it, but if they catch you i think you'll just sit out for a few games.

on av, tsa=52, egg=68.

[nahthan]

Used, egg = 40 mint...

A tsa will feed to the lower end of the BPS you posted, and an egg (dependant) a little more... in bursts, much more...

[volcom0729]

well do u think im capable of 13bps? considering i've used an electric marker like once in my life, the rest have been tippmans.i mean it would take me some time.but then maybe by taht time i wouldve invested in a better loader or something.i dunno i'll just take you're word i guess.

[paintballer279]

With a stock Pilot or Imagine? Pretty hard. The micro switch on them in like over 1 gram which makes it very hard to get past 13 bps stock. In order to get above the 13 bps, you wil need to get a micro switch, after market. A .50gram is the best because the .25 gram bounces too much. Also, gettting a better trigger wil help too. A Sweetspot or Roller Triggers are the best for the Spyder ESP Frames. So, yes, it is able to get past 13 bps, but not stock, you will need upgrades to get the 14-16 bps that you want.

[volcom0729]

imagine? pilot? those were out of the question for a while now lol.im getting an ion, ha...but anyway, stock or not...i've only walked a trigger like twice in my life.so i doubt i would be able to hit the cap right off the bat.it'd probably take me a few months to practice it.

[paintballer279]

Oh, yea, sorry. Stock yes. You will be able to get atleast 13 bps out of the stock Ion. With more upgrading and a new board that comes out early next year, you will be able to get above the 17 bps board with upgrades and a lot of practice. Getting to 17 bps doesn't take upgarades, it also takes a lot of practicing and mostly walking the trigger to get that high of bps. So, yes, it would be very easy to hit 13 bps. As you may know, the Ion has a magnetic trigger, abling you to have it as stiff or light pulling as you please. That will also allow to to be able to get higher bps. If you get higher bps with more harder pull, set the magnet's intensity higher, or lighter pull, less intense.

[volcom0729]

Oh, yea, sorry. Stock yes. You will be able to get atleast 13 bps out of the stock Ion. With more upgrading and a new board that comes out early next year, you will be able to get above the 17 bps board with upgrades and a lot of practice. Getting to 17 bps doesn't take upgarades, it also takes a lot of practicing and mostly walking the trigger to get that high of bps. So, yes, it would be very easy to hit 13 bps. As you may know, the Ion has a magnetic trigger, abling you to have it as stiff or light pulling as you please. That will also allow to to be able to get higher bps. If you get higher bps with more harder pull, set the magnet's intensity higher, or lighter pull, less intense.

yeah.just need the practice part down for it to work.still waitiing on rcx's price quote.i know hes on vacation, but emailed the gmail account so maybe someone else would help.i wanna try and order it by tuesday atleast.

[slaminator3323]

They don't make .50 or .25 gram switches, I think you meant 25 or 50, the stock spyder has a 250 gram pull too.

[paintballer279]

Yeah, sorry. .25 grams would be pulling air! LOL! Anyways, Spyders are out of the picture now. It is Ion time.

[Coenen]

An Ion will definitely outshoot that TSA bone stock...especially once you give in to the dark side and turn on the ramping. In any event, you'll be surprised how quickly a little bit of practice and trigger adjustment will get your ROF up out of the cellar.

BTW, TSA = 13.3333 BPS max, the speed of gravity. The only difference between an agitated hopper and a gravity hopper is that the agitator will not have feed gaps like the gravity fed. Speed wise they max out exactly the same. To get a hopper over that mark you need a forcefed verison like the Egg or Halo, etc.

[volcom0729]

k, well i'll be heading to the 2 paintball stores about 10 mins away from me(both on the same road).maybe they can hook me up with a nice deal also.so i'll have 3 choices to pick from, the 2 stores, and rcx whenever he gets back.

[Sheps]

RCX will probably give you the best deal, he is non-profit, after all.

And go for the Egg II, cause you will be very tempted to ramp your marker to 17 bps very soon after you get it.

[volcom0729]

yeah, well u never know.i've always gotten better deals from local shops when i skated and stuff.but always nice to have 3 options open.

[volcom0729]

w00t, well i got my ion today :)

actually changed some things around

Ion
68/4500 HPA
Stock Barrel(for now since they did not sell the cp classic there, gonna order it tomorrow)
halo b loader
new feedneck
diablo 06 tank cover

[Ebonclaw]

If you own an Ion, you'll play a lot more than twice a month. You'll play, in fact, every time you have enough money for 500 painballs, even if it means you have to one-ball all day.

[volcom0729]

If you own an Ion, you'll play a lot more than twice a month. You'll play, in fact, every time you have enough money for 500 painballs, even if it means you have to one-ball all day.
well right now only once a month.but during spring/summer its gonna be like every other weekend.later today though, im gonna check for leaks and all.i was supposed to go after thanksgiving day, but forecast is its gonna snow, and the field owner said he was closing due to it.then saturday he has some tournament running on...so we're hoping to go next week, get to use the ion for the first time in the field.right now i have 4000 balls.ordered my barrel last night, so maybe it'll be here next week.