Never seen this before...

[SEAL34]

http://www.e-paintball.com/images/custom/XL/69062.jpg

Link (http://www.e-paintball.com/detail.aspx?ID=2076).

-No Cyclone
-Imitation Tippy
-Exact same specs
-$180 and electronic

Discuss.

[Fallen88]

yea thats basically a wannabe tippy a5 but its alot cheaper BUT its not a actual tippy AT ALL

im not sure who makes it
looks like it has a 98c elbow

[Dalapadea]

I'll stick with my A-5 ;)

[paintballa665]

I dont think ne1 will buy that, unless ur a newbie or plain stupid

[Raleigh Allen]

Rather go with an A5. A5>that thing.:tup:

[Coenen]

Hard to believe you could make a knockoff that direct and not get called out for it. Probably Tippmann is behind it at some point. Kind of like Proto is a cheaper sub-company of Dye, perhaps this company is a lower version of Tippmann.

[senghing27]

I thought NPS was behind this

[Coenen]

Could be, but the design is TOO close, and Tippmann is too influential a company for this to go unnoticed and unchallenged.

[TheSpy11]

I remember seeing it a while back, but I didn't know the details about it. It's really a cross between the A-5 and 98c--mostly A-5, but has some of both.

[Raleigh Allen]

Its probably a company some how related to Tippmann. Otherwise Im pretty sure Tippmann would be sueing for copyright infringement.

[wise690]

Check out this link. There is a little more information and some specs. It does'nt look or sound like a terrible gun. It just sucks that it is a knock off of an A-5.

http://www.zephyrpaintball.com/c=Vv35WLToC9aUuh0TjbwWyFyLh/product/PB-PCSUS5E

[SEAL34]

It got a 6.3 with only 3 reviews. There's two 9/10s and 1 1/10. I think the guy that gave it a 1 was flaming or got a lemon, because th others were good with it. There is one thing that I agree with about it that the 1/10'er said:

Originally posted by Ionsuxors
It doesn't come with Tippmanns durability, warranty or customer service.

He got flammed a loton the comments page though, here's the link (http://www.pbreview.com/comments/?rev=137212)

I don't know if Tippmann can do anything, since they don't have the patented Cyclone though. You could get away with saying it was an A5 if you took off the PCS logo and made some excuse about the elbow. If this company make a centerfeed upgrade for this thing, I'm all over it.

[Govinda_T]

It's made by a new scenario subdivision of PMI, PCS, or Pursuit Combat Systems. And I believe Tippmann is mad as hell and they're not gonna take it anymore. So they're suing (I think) and have discontinued their relationship with NPS as a result. Tippmann.com news page FTW. :dodgy: I would never buy one, (of course) but I bet a noob would, or an unsuspecting parent/grandparent for their child/grandchild for Christmas, not knowing the difference between this impostor and a Tippmann. I hope Tippmann makes them stop. I personally am appalled by this travesty. :pissed:

[TheSpy11]

Woah, Tippmann was :pissed:. They didn't take this lightly.

[Govinda_T]

I don't know if Tippmann can do anything, since they don't have the patented Cyclone though. *You could get away with saying it was an A5 if you took off the PCS logo and made some excuse about the elbow.* If this company make a centerfeed upgrade for this thing, I'm all over it.
Actually I think they could, for possible confusion and recognition/identity problems it may cause. *Red part explains why.* Like the BT (Ben Tippmann) incident. I believe it's something called intellectual property, if I'm not mistaken. Coenen, please correct me if I'm wrong. After all, you were the one that knew all about/was up to date on patent laws/intellectual property laws. :dodgy:

EDIT: Brand confusion , maybe?

[Ness]

All I have to say is for 180$, that thing has to be made in China. I'll stick with my american tippy for now.

[Greedy]

Govinda is right. If a person who knows one product as the real one then identifies the second (the copy) as the original or extremely similar then it infringes upon the design patent. Any item has to be 40% different than the original to be legal.

Just for the record, it's a sub-division of PMI. I don't know Tippmann's personal take on it, although if someone is bored I'm sure a Tippmann rep would be more than willing to share their perspective.

Perhaps a mod should call for his fellow forumers . . .

[toxicity883]

there actually decent guns, ive shot one its no tippy but its not crap. the main difference is the body, if i remeber right its aluminum, and is much heavier than tippmanns. The major downside is the current lack of upgrades

[SEAL34]

Lack of upgrades? The thing can probably fit most A5 upgrades. Govinda, a link to the page on Tippmann suing them, please?

[Govinda_T]

Here's the link...

http://www.tippmann.com/about_us/pressReleaseDetails.aspx?id=13

I guess it didn't say anything about suing, but I'm pretty sure they will if PCS doesn't stop producing them. The counterfeit is just so blatantly similar... How could they afford not to?

[Coenen]

'Pending litigation' generally translates to 'forthcoming lawsuit' if I'm not mistaken.
Eladamri is the legal eagle here btw, my knowledge of IP laws and that kind of thing is merely prefunctory. I can say right now that, IMO, the PCS marker is definitely going to be close enough in design and operation to infringe on Tippmann's IP for the A-5, they will probably settle with National/PMI out of court.

I also find it interesting that after dropping National they aligned themselves with Procaps...who, if memory serves, has VERY strong ties with National. I guess NPS is just to big to get away from and still be effective.

Did anyone else find it funny to read that they were a 'cutting edge' manufacturer of 'high performance' paintball markers? I like Tippmann and all but those two statements when compared to some of the other companies out there are laughable. Maybe 5-10yrs. ago that could fly, but not now.

[Govinda_T]

'Pending litigation' generally translates to 'forthcoming lawsuit' if I'm not mistaken. (Oops, missed that, lol :blush:)
Eladamri is the legal eagle here btw, my knowledge of IP laws and that kind of thing is merely prefunctory. (:notwrthy: All hail judge Eladamri! :dodgy:) I can say right now that, IMO, the PCS marker is definitely going to be close enough in design and operation to infringe on Tippmann's IP for the A-5, they will probably settle with National/PMI out of court. (QFT. It's so similar, it's obscene.)

I also find it interesting that after dropping National they aligned themselves with Procaps...who, if memory serves, has VERY strong ties with National. I guess NPS is just to big to get away from and still be effective. (LOL)

Did anyone else find it funny to read that they were a 'cutting edge' manufacturer of 'high performance' paintball markers? I like Tippmann and all but those two statements when compared to some of the other companies out there are laughable. Maybe 5-10yrs. ago that could fly, but not now.(Well, maybe not in the traditional sense, but they do have some pretty innovative stuff *See cyclone feed, RT, perhaps Factory F/A, etc.*, and "high performance" may not necessarily mean speed, but upgradeability reliabilty durability, abusability, quality, etc.)

[Raleigh Allen]

You could probably pass it off as an A5, just rig a Cyclone on there and a few other minor things and you could do it.

[Sleepykat]

Procaps stop dealing with NPS also. Ha. They make Draxxus, and XBall paintballs, and VForce masks right? When I first seen the PCS marker I thought Tippmann wouldn't be to happy about it.

[Eladamri]

Without going into boring detail and taking the time to examine the patents that Tippmann owns, I'd be willing to bet that NPS is infringing on at least 1 tippmann patent. The lack of the cyclone will make it a closer call though because the inline blowback design patent has expired, this marker lacks the cyclone feed and has a standard feedneck, and Tippmann might have poorly drafted the design patent or failed to file one in addition to their utility patents. Blah blah blah,

Short answer is that Tippmann should have a descent case unless NPS went into this with the intent of avoiding patent infringement and Tippmann's attorneys did an extremely poor job of drafting the patents in the first place.

[Sumguy21]

That's pretty sweet... I wonder how good it is, it's so funny how exactly like the a5 it is.

The design is supposed to look like an H&K MP5, so I don't know if Tippmann could sue directly.

[tydascenarioguy]

When I looked at the A5 it was for the cyclone feed and the look of the MP5. This with cyclone feed costs more than a stock A5 though. Funny looking though because Im used to the A5 parts.

[bruised head]

it's perfectly legal what the knockoff did, right? heres another example look at the Beretta 9mm, it was copied by Tarus M 92
Heres the Tarus
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg93-e.htm
Now the Beretta
http://hjartproductions.com/Berettagroot.jpg

both companies have been here for years, beretta hasnt shut tarus down yet
..... so this is legal to copy the a5 under a different name right ?

[Eladamri]

it's perfectly legal what the knockoff did, right? heres another example look at the Beretta 9mm, it was copied by Tarus M 92
Heres the Tarus
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg93-e.htm
Now the Beretta
http://hjartproductions.com/Berettagroot.jpg

both companies have been here for years, beretta hasnt shut tarus down yet
..... so this is legal to copy the a5 under a different name right ?

It's way more complicated than that.
1. Patents expire after 20 years, so after 20 years anyone can manufacture the product.
2. Beretta may have licensed Taurus the ability to produce a clone.
3. The original design may not have qualified with the regulations governing patentability. It might not have met the standards for Novelty, Utility, and Non-Obviousness.
4. The patents only cover what is claim and if the patent is drafted to broadly, it can be invalid. So there may have been some actual deficiency with the Patent claim that allowed Taurus to manufacture a similar object.

You can't say that because the Taurus clone is fine that the A-5 clone is legal. Without digging through all the actual patents on the A-5 its hard to say one way or the other, but I'd bet money that Tippmann has a couple of patents that NPS is possibly infringing upon.

[Mike E.]

I remember seeing an add for one of those in an APG magazine not to long ago.

[Sumguy21]

Well, ethecly (not sure about legally), the A5 is based off of the MP5 design, so it would be kind of wrong for Tippmann to sue PCS for a design they took from H&K.

http://content.kapowwe.com/images3/5-1-8_2.jpg
http://content.kapowwe.com/images5/used_tippmann_a5_2.jpg

I think they whole marketing idea behind this is so that if you don't like the cyclone feed, you can still get an a5 feel and look.

I dont think ne1 will buy that, unless ur a newbie or plain stupid
Why would just noobs are stupid people buy this? It dosn't really look like a stupid descision due to the same specs and all. Plus, it's electronic. The only downside is... well.. it's tippmann knock off!