General Question

[Aslan2005]

I only posted this question because everytime some newb or kid asks about Mags (or other guns for that matter)...the first question is..."How fast can it shoot!?" Can I put the #<<X>>* board in it? Does it have eyes?

Thos questions irritate me because it's some kid who probably just got his butt kicked in some young guns tourney using a Spyder Victor and he decided the best way to improve his "game" is to go get a gun that can shoot faster. When maybe...just "maybe"...they should gain some skills.

I could be wrong...I don't play in tourneys so maybe it's just not possible to even win at the easiest level without an electro...shooting >15bps...and maybe paintball takes no skill...just a fast gun. Maybe the only reason I get shot out in games is because I need a better gun...who knows.

There's other common questions that don't annoy me...like can you run it on CO2? Or, what's the difference between one or the other? Even how much is mine worth?...so it's not just that I'm easily annoyed. I just don't understand where the sport is going I guess.

[gdog5]

I voted for 70 20 10
Its takes skill and the right equipment to be a good player. Trust me its hard playing a tourney with a 68 classic ive been there done that. I dont doubt my skill but with no lvl 10 and a p/f that makes my hopper stick out the disadvantages become clear. Now with my ule emag and lvl 10, thats a whole different story.

[Aslan2005]

Well, initial responses seem to point towards all the questions/concerns about "How fast will it shoot?" and "Does it have eyes?" as being not really that important as skill is the important factor. Interesting.

Maybe people should worry more about how they play rather than getting their hands on the fastest shooting marker ever made...my opinion.

[skidds]

I knew the Talon and Tipman bullets would get a vote.....:rolleyes:

[Crede777]

Eyes are very important. You can have all the skill in the world, but a gun that's constantly chopping will fail you in a game. Also, one's skill can be limited by the equipment they use. If someone is shooting 10 balls per second, and someone else is shooting 15, then mathematically the person who is putting 15 balls into the air at once has a higher chance of one of them hitting someone who is shooting 10.

Finally, there's the intimidation factor. 5 bps may not be enough to keep someone in their bunker, but 15 may very well be. People are less likely to come out if they hear their bunker being barraged by paintballs.

[i_lovesniping]

I can keep some 1 in the bunker with a pump.

[nocpan]

I have to vote for skill counting most,

One time i went to a indoor field near me, and played against 3 guys with 2 angels and a shocker, it was me with my piranha e-froce grip, A5 with reponse trigger and A5 with electronic trigger, we wiped the field with those guys, they kept running to the closest bunker and just peeked from the same place and kept firing like mad, my and my friends were sliding into bunkers one by one, got them in cross fire and esentially killed them each game

my other friend did just what someone said here, he had a Spyder victor 2, played 2 games agains ppl with better guns and skills than he, and now he blew all his money on some tricked out autococker thinking it will improve his game...

my strong belief is that your skill matters most, I will play better with a faster marker but only when I get good enough to play with a weaker one and still win, expirience and strategy counts for a lot, you do not develop that with a faster/better marker cause you are just a noob hiding behind the furthest bunker sprying the field with balls hoping to be the last one out

you know that you are getting better and heading in the right direction when feel good walking off the field hit but knowing you took out 3 guys from the other team and got to the last bunker across the field rather than being the last guy out still at the first bunker and after 5 pods of paint

[Aslan2005]

Eyes are very important. You can have all the skill in the world, but a gun that's constantly chopping will fail you in a game. Also, one's skill can be limited by the equipment they use. If someone is shooting 10 balls per second, and someone else is shooting 15, then mathematically the person who is putting 15 balls into the air at once has a higher chance of one of them hitting someone who is shooting 10.

Finally, there's the intimidation factor. 5 bps may not be enough to keep someone in their bunker, but 15 may very well be. People are less likely to come out if they hear their bunker being barraged by paintballs.

Sort of like the guys that intimidate using anno...i.e. any gun that's shiny red must be dominant? Or the mil sim guns...if they look real, watch out for that guy! Or what about grenades...you don't want to face anybody that has a grenade...they're really good!!

I understand that more bps gives you an advantage, my point was simply that if you "rely" on that advantage...the more experienced player can easily beat you with a rental gun. Paintball is about containment and angles. If I'm behind my opponent and he doesn't know I'm there...a standard blowback will be more than enough firepower. And nothing is more intimidating to a guy in a bunker than getting hit from behind.

[nocpan]

there was a good article i paintball magazine a while back talking about how lotta players do panic and loose their cool when stuck behind a bunker which is being hit over and over again, its the sound that freaks some out,

but after a while you should develop a healthy thinking that the balls are not hitting you, they are hitting the bunker, that's #1 and #2 they can't shoot at you forever especially with high bps markers in a few they gotta reload that's your chance to make your move

if you have a consistent and fairly accurate blowback you shouldn't have a problem in haking a guy out carrying more firepower

I noticed a lotta times people with higher bps rate don't happen to aim in lotta cases, they just spray the general area, where as person with lower rate of fire actually tries to make every shot count

hence the myth that pumps are more accurate, they are not, but the person behind the pump is in a mind set that he/she(ladies) has 1 ball so next shot they will take better count not just fire blindly (and in some case give away your position and cause to be a traget for 3 other guys who didn't knwo you were there)

[PbGals4Ever]

If you don't have the skill...it doesn't matter what kind of gun you have.
I voted 70/10/20

[nerdcore]

I voted 80/10/10. Physical speed ability with the trigger doesn't seem necessary anymore with ramping nowadays and the speed of the gun can only get you so far, although pull & gun speed helps (hard to lane with a slow mech or pump). But if you can't aim, shoot & move like you should, then the gun and how fast you can shoot it aren't worth a damn.

[TiPpYsGaLoRe]

The 90-10 thing going around is total BS. You are nothing without a gun, having gun helps a little. :dodgy:

[A-5best]

Wait, wtf am I the only one who doesnt realize how physical, and skill are different? Like they are the same thing no? If I can run hella fast the the 50 thats a skill, so whats up with that?

Anyway I have said this before the percentage of it is about 80%/40% 80 skill(and physical I guess) and 40% gun. Or if you want an easier way to wrap your head around it roughly 67% and 33.5%.

As long as your gun can hit 15 or at least close to that, and not chop your at no disadvantage.

[..SilentAngel..]

I voted for the Ion > Tippmann one, because your poll confuses me.

[hybrid-sniper]

I've won many games against good players with mech and blowback guns before. But the nice high end guns definitly help.
You need to have skill to be able to use a high end effectively instead of a crutch, but a low end gun with a good player can put them at a handicap.

[wjr]

I think it all depends on who youre playing really. Differant games against differant players require more or less skill. There are also some courses, and not just woodsball courses, where there is alot of space, and to win you have to run fast and far; hence physical ability is needed. Some games you will be playing a bunch of kids with rental guns, or inexperianced players. Many times these kids will ask what kind of gun I have, and I will reply "its an automag" they then assume that its automatic, and because theyve never heard of it, they assume it is very good and shoots very fast.

So my point is it really just all depends on the circumstances.

[nerdcore]

You need to have skill to be able to use a high end effectively instead of a crutch, but a low end gun with a good player can put them at a handicap.That's the way we need to be thinking. All this "it's all about skill" or "this gun will provide the advantage over that gun." That's too general.

We need to look at it like Player 1 is best with X gun while Player 2 is best with Y gun. That's similar to the game being about 100% skill but you have to add "100% with a marker that fits the player." Obviously, that 100% skill won't help if the player is using the wrong gun.

[aperson]

I voted 50/40/10, but really i think it's more like 50/30/20

[devilnevel]

I voted 70/10/20
You need to have skill, and I used low-ends for about 2 years. Getting the skill up with those helps a lot. You will learn to place your shots.
Physical is also key because you have to be in okay shape to have skill. Ex. If you are a front man, you must be fast and good at sliding, so the physical speed adds to the skill of the player
The gun does matter. It sucks to break a ball and not be able to hit what you can see. It is also a bonus to have a higher ROF because the odds of you landing a hit are greater. You also increase the break to bounce ratio. By landing more hits you are guaranteed more breaks and less bounces.

[slaminator3323]

I voted 60, 10, 30, because you didn't put an other option.

[Aslan2005]

I thought about it some more today...and I guess my overall feeling is that...if you are a skilled player...and you get to a point where you are limited by your gun...then you should get a better gun. But if you're getting beat by people because you don't have the skills...then you should develop your skills and worry about the better gun later. In other words, step up to a better gun when you gun is the part of your game that is limiting you.

Example 1: You move from rec airball to tourney and you start to win alot. But then you face a team that beats you because their firepower is just too much. At that point...you need a step up in firepower to compete. Not because you need a crutch...but because you ability to beat the other team is being reduced soley because of the gun you are using.

Example 2: My first gun was a Tiger Shark (way back when). It was a great gun when it was just me and some buddies playing pump in the woods. But when we started to face guys with semi-autos...not only was it hard to compete with the rof, but I found myself trying to lob balls across the field because the Tiger Shark didn't really have the range. It was time for me to step up...because I was being limited not by my skill, but by my gun.

Exception...if you have a gun that is junk...obviously you need a more reliable gun...probabaly not the best gun available...but a reliable gun like a Spyder or Mag will make you time at the field much more enjoyable than trying to nurse your 10 year old Stingray along and constantly having problems.

P.S. To those complaining about the choices...I was limited to 10. I picked two extremes, tried to put a good mix out there. To do it right, I'd have needed 1000 choices. And "physical", I mean the ability to run and slide and that type of thing.

[Aslan2005]

I voted for the Ion > Tippmann one, because your poll confuses me.

So your vote is that if you give a Pro team Tippmanns...your team of newbs with Ions should win every time? Interesting. If that were the case, I would think there would be no variety of marker...one marker...the best available...because without it you would lose every time.

[TheSpy11]

Hmmm, I haven't voted yet because I believe it to be about 40% skill, 40% physical, and 20% equipment. I like how you sperate skill and athleticism because they are two different things. Skill might include snap shooting and using cover the best way possible while athleticism includes speed/quickness and endurance. You can be as fast running as you want, but without gun skills you aren't going to hit anyone. Likewise you can be great as using cover and get plenty of eliminations even though you aren't mobile, or you are out of gas early in the game. As for equipment, I think it is very important--at least 20% because good guns really bring out the best of your ability. I know I wouldn't be getting as many kills with a cheap mechanical gun.

[Crede777]

Give Ollie Lang a 98c and me my Ego, and I can almost guarantee a win.

[slaminator3323]

Give Ollie Lang a 98c and me my Ego, and I can almost guarantee a win.
What about a TE tippy.

[Crede777]

That could possibly be different, although the things are no substitute for a *real* Intimidator.

Oh and you'd be surprised at how much Tippmann Effect Tippies can cost. Saw a guy using one at PBW, the thing didn't have trouble hitting 15 bps, but it looked really awkward. It looked like he was trying to play with an assault rifle.

[Tweeters]

the gun is your tool to win the game, without it you can't do anything. therefore theres more majority on the gun.