A-5 woes

[Cpt. Morgan]

I went to play today. Got my reg all working and etc. Fixed the leaks and etc etc etc. But I noticed two things.

1 - My response trigger did not work at all

and

2 - My gun after about 650 shoots would not recock (I lost alot of air to the leaks and testing to see if they were fixed) but the sound it makes is different then when It would not recock when I had no reg)

Furthermore My reg is not sitting where I wish it two sit. I was recomended to use some other form of o-ring to fix the problem.

I enjoy the consistancy very much. About 12fps plus or minus (as I break in it will be more consistant) but I'm pissed that my r/t would not work and worried as to why it acts different when low on the tank (makes a different sound when it won't recock)

Some answers that would help:

What is the operating pressure of an A-5? (consider that 1 - I have no gauge and 2 - have my velocity screw flush with the power tube and am firing in the 200-2300 feet per second range)

and

also about my r/t problem

*only leak that I KNOW of is coming from my tank*

[Govinda_T]

I went to play today. Got my reg all working and etc. Fixed the leaks and etc etc etc. But I noticed two things.

1 - My response trigger did not work at all

and

2 - My gun after about 650 shoots would not recock (I lost alot of air to the leaks and testing to see if they were fixed) but the sound it makes is different then when It would not recock when I had no reg)

Furthermore My reg is not sitting where I wish it two sit. I was recomended to use some other form of o-ring to fix the problem.

I enjoy the consistancy very much. About 12fps plus or minus (as I break in it will be more consistant) but I'm pissed that my r/t would not work and worried as to why it acts different when low on the tank (makes a different sound when it won't recock)

Some answers that would help:

What is the operating pressure of an A-5? (consider that 1 - I have no gauge and 2 - have my velocity screw flush with the power tube and am firing in the 200-2300 feet per second range)

and

also about my r/t problem

*only leak that I KNOW of is coming from my tank*

The operating pressure I would set it at would be 800-900 psi. Thats the same pressure as CO2. I would also try running it without the gauge to be sure that the operating pressure isn't the issue. I personally didn't get a reg because that is one more thing to worry about/tune/adjust that could possibly go wrong. The next thing I would do is fix the leak, as well as make sure that you orient the RT fittings the correct way. I believe you are supposed to have the notches on the screws in the up and down position, not the side to side. The reason for this is the location of the holes in the screw that allows air to flow through the middle of it. (If you remove the screw completely, you will see what I mean. Just make sure you don't lose the tiny o-rings on it.) Also, large hardware shops should have a vast assortment of o-rings that should be what you would need. You'll want to try either a thicker or a thinner o-ring, preferably made of nylon or maybe even teflon.

I think that covers just about everything. Let me know if you need any further assistance.

[Cpt. Morgan]

The operating pressure I would set it at would be 800-900 psi. Thats the same pressure as CO2. I would also try running it without the gauge to be sure that the operating pressure isn't the issue. I personally didn't get a reg because that is one more thing to worry about/tune/adjust that could possibly go wrong. The next thing I would do is fix the leak, as well as make sure that you orient the RT fittings the correct way. I believe you are supposed to have the notches on the screws in the up and down position, not the side to side. The reason for this is the location of the holes in the screw that allows air to flow through the middle of it. (If you remove the screw completely, you will see what I mean. Just make sure you don't lose the tiny o-rings on it.) Also, large hardware shops should have a vast assortment of o-rings that should be what you would need. You'll want to try either a thicker or a thinner o-ring, preferably made of nylon or maybe even teflon.

I think that covers just about everything. Let me know if you need any further assistance.

Thanks man. But I wonder though how do I tell its operating pressure without a gauge. Right now it is sitting (no air) with the pressure as high as it will go. How do I tell. I heard one turn is about 100psi of difference eighter plus or minus.

[Govinda_T]

That sounds about right, but you really should get a gauge. They are definitely worth it, IMO. It makes it MUCH easier to tune.

[Cpt. Morgan]

I have a new respect for gauges.:D

Now. I went out again today. It was pretty sick and all but now my questions still remain.

Again my response was not working AT ALL yet again. I was firing very consistent (Plus 5 fps + or - eighter direction or less... using a friends hpa tank). at about 230fps. I have messed around with most of what I can think of. I'll be more thorough tomorrow but I'm wondering does anyone with a Palmer's male reg have r/t issues like these?

I have changed pressure from as high as it will go right down to where the gun will not re-cock properly. Set the r/t on its lowest setting (just as the r/t manual says to do to make sure it works... its not as hard to pull as it was before), messed with my velocity screw and pressure together (increase pressure and lower velocity screw). I oiled everything up stream of my reg as needed to be done every now and then. Even switched between HPA and O2. Same thing. I now can even cause my gun to go nuts. Bolt does not catch sear and goes nuts etc. This is pissing me off. I'm now considering if it ain't fixed in the next two weeks I'm dumping it and getting a new e-grip with some kind of new trigger. Any help anyone.

The trigger seems somewhat responsive but not enough to fire more then semi.

HELP

[cheddarbob]

Thanks man. But I wonder though how do I tell its operating pressure without a gauge. Right now it is sitting (no air) with the pressure as high as it will go. How do I tell. I heard one turn is about 100psi of difference eighter plus or minus.

thats why i got a gauge cause i figured i would fine tune it a bit from time to time and i would eventually lose track of what my output pressure was. Dont know if it helps any but my 98c has trouble recocking at about 300-350 psi. At 400+ psi it cocks back fine. Right now I got my reg set to 650 psi with my velocity screw screwed out (sitting flush with the power tube and not obstructing the air flow) and I was chronoed at about 280-285 fps.

[Govinda_T]

The operating pressure I would set it at would be 800-900 psi. Thats the same pressure as CO2. I would also try running it without the REG to be sure that the operating pressure isn't the issue. I personally didn't get a reg because that is one more thing to worry about/tune/adjust that could possibly go wrong. The next thing I would do is fix the leak, as well as make sure that you orient the RT fittings the correct way. I believe you are supposed to have the notches on the screws in the up and down position, not side to side. The reason for this is the location of the holes in the screw that allows air to flow through the middle of it. (If you remove the screw completely, you will see what I mean. Just make sure you don't lose the tiny o-rings on it.) Also, large hardware shops should have a vast assortment of o-rings that should be what you would need. You'll want to try either a thicker or a thinner o-ring, preferably made of nylon or maybe even teflon.

I think that covers just about everything. Let me know if you need any further assistance.

I meant to say reg in that above post. See red text for correction.

BTW, you will want the full output pressure of your High Pressure output tank for maximum RT results. Lower pressures make it weaker, which equals the suckage.

[Cpt. Morgan]

Thanks. I'll mess around again in about an hour with my gun. Turn the velocity screw flush with the power tube and crank the pressure. My pressure is already almost at full. I'm using CO2, but I'm going to remove the reg and all and see if my r/t works like it did without it. Limit the possible numbers of problems.

[Cpt. Morgan]

Well, I can't do much today because I sprung a leak and lack teflon tape but tomorrow will be all good. But going back to my reg questions. Just two questions.

1 - When the screw in the reg is all the way in... what is the PSI at?
2 - Does one turn of the screw = about a 100 PSI difference?

(I'm trying to get in the general neighborhood of the A-5's operating pressure)

[cheddarbob]

1. If you screwed it all the way in, I believe it would depend on the temp that you are playing at. I would confuse you trying to explain it, but it would be better for you to read it at warpig.com to see how a reg works. It would allow a max pressure of 800 I believe. Anything higher, I guess the relief pressure hole will start to vent.

Basically, after a rapid burst of shots (with the reg screw all the way in) I doubt your velocity will be constant cause your tank will get cold and the pressure will drop. Since the pressure dropped, it will not be enough force to push the piston in the reg to cut off a certain amount of airflow pressure to your marker.

If you set the output pressure to something lower say 650 psi, then it would be a little bit different. Even though the pressure in the tank dropped it will still be enough force to push the piston in the reg to cut off the excess pressure and keep it constant at 650 psi. Sounds vague, but read up on it and you will get the idea.

To make it simple, in my opinion it would sort of be like playing with no reg. The reg would just stop the pressure from exceeding 800 psi by venting off the excess pressure.

2. yes one turn of the screw is a 100 psi +/- or each quarter of a full turn is 25 psi +/-

The best thing I would say is get a gauge so you know what your output pressure is. Either that or you can get it chronoed and adjust the velocity by the reg (with the velocity screw sitting flush with the powertube and not obstructing the airflow, thats just my preference). The whole thing with the RT I have no clue.

[therron258]

New tank oring?

[Cpt. Morgan]

Everything is working at 100% on my gun now. I shoots and shoots better then before. But my r/t problem I can not figure it out. I think it has to be everything is not tuned correctly. It has to be. I'm 85% sure thats my problem.

But I also am thinking that my problem could be:

1) something restricting air flow (Its not in the lines... any of them)

2) a leak within the gun (I have a slightly damaged o-ring around my lower half of the r/t)

3) the oring around the piston in the r/t that forces the trigger forward is popped out towards the back (maybe need a new o-ring)

Other then these 3 things that could be wrong I have no idea what the problem is... at all... I followed the r/t manual to make sure it works (turn the rof screw all the way in) and the piston is not ANYWHERE near as hard to pull as it was before the reg. Should I try my gun out with stock parts on?

[Govinda_T]

Everything is working at 100% on my gun now. I shoots and shoots better then before. But my r/t problem I can not figure it out. I think it has to be everything is not tuned correctly. It has to be. I'm 85% sure thats my problem.

But I also am thinking that my problem could be:

1) something restricting air flow (Its not in the lines... any of them)

2) a leak within the gun (I have a slightly damaged o-ring around my lower half of the r/t)

3) the oring around the piston in the r/t that forces the trigger forward is popped out towards the back (maybe need a new o-ring)

Other then these 3 things that could be wrong I have no idea what the problem is... at all... I followed the r/t manual to make sure it works (turn the rof screw all the way in) and the piston is not ANYWHERE near as hard to pull as it was before the reg. Should I try my gun out with stock parts on?

The RT piston itself may have debris in it. You may need Super RT hoses. You really should try it without the reg, though. I can say with almost 100% certainty that that is where the problem lies. I've had similar problems with my RT when I used an expansion chamber. I've heard that it may have something to do with a very miniscule leak. I can pretty much guarantee that everything will magically get better once you remove the reg and return it to its stock configuration, because the more you explain, the more convinced I become that the reg is the root of the problem. Believe me, it should work like a fairy tale.

[Cpt. Morgan]

I think it is the reg aswell, almost 100% certain. I'll do a complete check of the r/t, see if there is any depree etc. If these problems I can not fix I will get an e-grip for sure. This is really pissing me off and the new e-grips have the was boards on them. Its a good deal. Anyone using a r/t with a palmer's reg?

[Cpt. Morgan]

Well. After 2 and a half hours of doing everything possible with an A-5, I have come to a conclusion and confirmed my previous assumption.

Its the regulator not the r/t. The r/t is completely 100% but it has not been tuned to the needed pressures and etc. Everything is fine, its just that I can not tune the reg to be perfectly in sync with the r/t and they don't seem to like to work together because of this.

I will try everything stock tomorrow just to make sure. I think I'm going to phone or contact both Palmers and Tippmann tomorrow most likely. I think Palmers will be the most helpful (afterall my problem has to do with their reg). I'm thinking most likely my r/t will be working in time for my next game.

But any-who. I like to upgrade things and have some cash to throw around and I was thinking if this does not work and my r/t just does nothing. I thought I would get an e-grip with the new board and a new trigger on it. Would say a e-gripped A-5 with a new double trigger be walkable?

[Govinda_T]

Well. After 2 and a half hours of doing everything possible with an A-5, I have come to a conclusion and confirmed my previous assumption.

Its the regulator not the r/t. The r/t is completely 100% but it has not been tuned to the needed pressures and etc. Everything is fine, its just that I can not tune the reg to be perfectly in sync with the r/t and they don't seem to like to work together because of this. :eyes: I wonder if this is why I never see RT'd Tippmanns with regs, only E-Gripped ones?

I will try everything stock tomorrow just to make sure. I think I'm going to phone or contact both Palmers and Tippmann tomorrow most likely. I think Palmers will be the most helpful (afterall my problem has to do with their reg). I'm thinking most likely my r/t will be working in time for my next game.
You could also ask Tippmann about those Super RT parts, if you haven't already. They might be of use to you.

But any-who. I like to upgrade things and have some cash to throw around and I was thinking if this does not work and my r/t just does nothing. I thought I would get an e-grip with the new board and a new trigger on it. The APE board seems pretty sweet. Would say a e-gripped A-5 with a new double trigger be walkable?
I hear that JCS trigger is pretty kick-arse. Walkable? I don't know. But it seems to be the most praised and most popular E-Grip trigger.

[Cpt. Morgan]

I do not see any reason an r/t can not work with a regulator if the reg is set to the same pressure as CO2. I just do not see how. I have a weekend to mess around with my reg and all. I think with the help of Palmers and tippmann support this should work (I'll ask tippmann for larger diameter hose). I believe my own incompetence on this issue has led to the problem. Thanks for the advice. I'll update this thread if I need more help.

The new e-grip has the w.a.s board. I saw one on wednesday. Pretty sweet. I only wish Tippmann had bought the rights for the ape board instead. There is so much more you can do with it. But its still an amazing deal.

[Govinda_T]

I do not see any reason an r/t can not work with a regulator if the reg is set to the same pressure as CO2. I just do not see how. I have a weekend to mess around with my reg and all. I think with the help of Palmers and tippmann support this should work (I'll ask tippmann for larger diameter hose). I believe my own incompetence on this issue has led to the problem. Thanks for the advice. I'll update this thread if I need more help.

The new e-grip has the w.a.s board. I saw one on wednesday. Pretty sweet. I only wish Tippmann had bought the rights for the ape board instead. There is so much more you can do with it. But its still an amazing deal.

I think it may be simply due to the fact, that by their nature, regs restrict airflow. Either that or you have a hidden leak. (That you will never be able to pinpoint, because it is likely the size of a pinpoint.)

[Cpt. Morgan]

I think it may be simply due to the fact, that by their nature, regs restrict airflow. Either that or you have a hidden leak. (That you will never be able to pinpoint, because it is likely the size of a pinpoint.)

In that case I'm ****ed. I'll see what Palmers and Tippmann have to say. I'll see If I can get larger hose fittings, my bet is that will help out. If it does not, then I will have a super r/t to sell to my friend for 45$, revert back to a semi-automatic trigger for a month or so, buy an E-grip with a nice trigger I can walk. I don't like the idea of parting with my r/t but It does benefit me in a way to sell it for cheap to my friend. Then my upcoming team has two fast A-5s instead of one. Any-who, thanks for the help everyone *swears at reg*. I'll use this same thread for whenever I have my next question.

Anyone Know of any good names for a team? Just a small start. Nothing fancy and no tourneys etc.

[Govinda_T]

In that case I'm forked. (*Jams fork into eye...*) I'll see what Palmers and Tippmann have to say. I'll see If I can get larger hose fittings, my bet is that will help out. If it does not, then I will have a super r/t to sell to my friend for 45$, revert back to a semi-automatic trigger for a month or so, buy an E-grip with a nice trigger I can walk. I don't like the idea of parting with my r/t but It does benefit me in a way to sell it for cheap to my friend. Then my upcoming team has two fast A-5s instead of one. Any-who, thanks for the help everyone *swears at reg*. I'll use this same thread for whenever I have my next question.

Anyone Know of any good names for a team? Just a small start. Nothing fancy and no tourneys etc. Trick-arse Tippmann FTW. That or Mows Muthas, or Gunnin' Granny. My team is Pungee and The Overlords. BTW, did you ever try it without the reg? I'm telling you man, that just might do the trick.

[Cpt. Morgan]

I'm going to try my friends stock line and all on my gun, see if that works. That will probably be tuesday to thursday sometime. In the meantime, I'm going to phone Tippmann and ask for larger hose fittings. That should do the trick. If not I'm somewhere inbetween getting a gauge or just dumping the r/t and getting the sweet new e-grips with a sick trigger on it.

Would it be okay if I bored a friends gauge, installed it on my reg, tunned the pressure, took the gauge back out and give it back to my friend. Would that work?

[Govinda_T]

I'm going to try my friends stock line and all on my gun, see if that works. That will probably be tuesday to thursday sometime. In the meantime, I'm going to phone Tippmann and ask for larger hose fittings. That should do the trick. If not I'm somewhere inbetween getting a gauge or just dumping the r/t and getting the sweet new e-grips with a sick trigger on it.

Would it be okay if I borrowed a friends gauge, installed it on my reg, tuned the pressure, took the gauge back out and give it back to my friend. Would that work?

If I'm reading that right, then yes I believe that that should work. It makes perfect sense. Just make sure you replace the gauge port plug when you are done.

[Cpt. Morgan]

Hi Morgan,

The problem is that the RT doesn't like the lower pressures that you are
giving the gun now, through the Stabilizer.* That RT unit is designed to
operate at full co2 tank pressure and saturation of the gas.* The Stabilizer
will always put out less pressure than whatever the tank has in it.* The
only gauge you need for proper setup is the Chronograph.
Ideally, you'll want to set the regulator up to be firing at a higher
velocity than field limits with the gun's velocity restrictor (on the side)
all the way open, then restrict the velocity down to desired speed.* This
will make more pressure available to run the RT. You'll also have to be
shooting paint to gain some back-pressure in the system when firing.
Otherwise, all the air just goes out the barrel and not back out to the RT
ram.* Remember, you've got the cyclone feeder drawing air from the shot too,
so the whole process is a rather tricky balancing act.
****** Also, that little control valve on the side, for the RT is pretty
delicate when it comes to adjusting it.* They are easy to ruin if you turn
the adjustment too far.* Made that mistake myself when those guns first came
out.
Hope this helps,
Glenn

"FROM DA MAN HIMSELF" (Bows Down In Gratitude For Such an Honor... lol... jks)

I got this e-mail today, so basically this means that I need to crank the pressure (while firing paint) to above field velocity limits and use the velocity screw to lower velocity (It will not be very efficient). I'm going to request larger hose fittings to, it will bring down the needed pressure for the r/t to work (thus increase efficiency) but this is great. I won't need to buy any more ups for awhile and can save for a more speedball type gun. Ion or Promaster, I unno. Just two personal mods to go. Paint job and polished internals (I think if this works that polished internals and larger hose fittings will mean much better efficiency... close to an reg with a e-grip instead)

[Govinda_T]

It seems that I am 100% correct. If you want to keep your A-5, just sell the reg, install the Super RT, and get a HPA tank. (if you don't already have one) The HPA tank has enough consistency by itself to keep you happy.

EDIT: BTW, I tested my A-5's RT the other night, and it works great! (sorry about rubbing it in...) The trick is to make sure that the slots on ALL of the screwheads (banjo fittings and RT adjustment) are perfectly perpendicular to the hoses/barbs. This allows for MAXIMUM (and unrestricted) flow. *Hopes I am not too late...*

[Cpt. Morgan]

He is not saying dump the reg. He says nothing about dumping anything. He says simply that it will be hard to tune and gives me advice on how to tune it. He doesn't say to drop anything. I will tune it. Might take awhile but If I up the pressure on the reg and use paint, adjust the r/t accordingly, and use my velocity screw to adjust the velocity. Its complexish yeah but sounds like it will work. As I have said, it will be not AS efficient (my gun's reg with r/t vs other with reg and e-grip) but If I get larger hose fittings, it should become about equal in efficiency. Your only half right. If it doesn't work, with the edition of larger hose fittings then you are right. But I think that then I would get an e-grip + dual trig instead of dumbing the reg. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll update this if I need to. I'm thinking that this will work.

[Govinda_T]

He is not saying dump the reg. He says nothing about dumping anything. He says simply that it will be hard to tune and gives me advice on how to tune it. He doesn't say to drop anything. I will tune it. Might take awhile but If I up the pressure on the reg and use paint, adjust the r/t accordingly, and use my velocity screw to adjust the velocity. Its complexish yeah but sounds like it will work. As I have said, it will be not AS efficient (my gun's reg with r/t vs other with reg and e-grip) but If I get larger hose fittings, it should become about equal in efficiency. Your only half right. If it doesn't work, with the edition of larger hose fittings then you are right. But I think that then I would get an e-grip + dual trig instead of dumbing the reg. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll update this if I need to. I'm thinking that this will work. I was saying that I was completely right about the reg being the cause of the problem by starving the RT. I was suggesting dumping the reg simply because it will be a LOT more trouble than if you had just kept it stock, and it would have given you flawless performance. If you can get it to work, then more power to you. (And props for being so patient and persistent with the RT.)