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View Full Version : So how fast were you shooting a little over 100 bps


equipmentcounts
04-23-2006, 05:48 PM
121 cps noid while maintaining full pressure

Wait till you hit the punchline of the news which is the last sentence of the paragraphs lol -

Wicked Air Sportz does it again! Several years ago we sat down with the Koganei (Humphrey) engineers to help design the solenoids that have been used in tens of thousands of paintball markers world-wide. We helped determine how fast the solenoids needed to be, and helped improve their response time.

This time we sat down with the best in the business, and the results are staggering! Until now, every solenoid manufacturer has rated their valves to cycle at a maximum of 20cps. Yes, some do go faster than that (some as much as 35cps), but they eventually "wear" into a slower speed. When we made the first Intimidator boards, Bob Long's team was using them and destroying everyone with unbelievable rates of fire. The secret to Bob's team markers was largely due to a custom programmed board that we provided to Bob Long that showed the marker's cycle speed. After testing boxes of solenoids using this special board, the team had the fastest solenoids available... until they got full of grease and other contaminants and started slowing down to the 20cps range, where they are spec'd at. It's good to be sponsored by a legend!

Enter better technology! As you can see from the graph above, the new Wicked Solenoid can cycle in excess of 120 cps guaranteed! This means that the air passages will fully open and fully close 120+ times per second. Now, the only limiting factor in a marker's cycle speed is the design of the ram itself! The solenoid's "ON" time is 4ms. This means that it takes 4ms to fully open and allow air to flow. The solenoid "OFF" time is 2ms. This means that it takes 2ms for the valve to shut and stop the air flow.

Here is an interesting bit of information - the ON time for a Humphrey solenoid is 8ms. The OFF time is 14ms! Add these two values together and that gives you the total time that air is pressuring the ram assembly (22ms). The original Humphrey solenoids (before we worked with Koganei to make them better) had an OFF time of 18ms. Reducing the OFF time by 4ms also reduced the amount of air being used to pressurize the ram, changing the performance of a marker (sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse). In reality, all markers require a certain amount of air to make the ram operate. When the amount of air is altered, the performance changes. Changing the OFF time, changed the performance of the ram with the AKA markers as they were being slightly starved for air. This is 100% of the cause of the infamous "first shot drop off" seen in the middle of the production run of the Viking and Excalibur markers. This is also why a simple fix is to just secretly increase the actual dwell time, which is what we did to "magically" fix the problem that some of the less informed people believed to be a hardware problem. Yes, the new Humphrey performed better, even with a slightly higher dwell needed. The Wicked Solenoid is a "direct acting" valve design. This means that we can change how fast the valve opens and closes, to fine tune the solenoid's usage to a particular marker (ram) design. Direct acting valves also are virtually unaffected by contaminants such as grease, water, and dirt. You can literally blow out the "gunk" and the solenoid returns to 100% functionality. This is simply not possible with a pilot operated valve design!

Because the new Wicked Solenoid operates so fast (and with higher airflow), it simply will not work in most markers without a significant code change, and more importantly, superior solenoid output. These solenoids, even though being nearly 1/2 the size of the Humphrey solenoid, draw 8 times the power (4 watts vs. 1/2 watt). They work with our boards, but not most others (i.e. Tadao, Tag, Virtue, Advantage, Lucky, etc.) due to our superior hardware designs.

Special coding is required to drive the solenoid, and will be included when we release v3.0 for all Equalizer boards. We no longer use "Dwell". This really is the wrong term for this, and is a carry over term from the Auto-cocker's trigger timing. The proper term is ON time and OFF time, and these are now independently adjustable to control the slew rate at which the valve opens and closes. Without special coding, just increasing the dwell (even as high as 25ms) will not work in most markers, and would be incredibly inefficient.

That's sounds great, but does it work? Yes, it does! Jack Rice's Alien Remains and Interceptor will be using this new valve. The raw cycle speed of the Alien markers on a bench test is 38cps, with NO optimizations to the ram design. Now that there is a faster solenoid, optimizations to the ram design can be done to increase the cycle speed! Once loader technology caught up and then surpassed our marker cycle speeds, we were at the mercy of the solenoid's performance for high rates of fire. Now that has changed, and we can potentially exceed the speed of any loader, and likely any future loader when using this solenoid.

So, is there a catch? Well, yes, the catch is power consumption and quality of the board driving this solenoid. If there has been any doubt to whether the solenoid output on our boards is sufficient, then here is the proof. Expect your 9 volt battery to last about 120,000 shots instead of the normal 500,000. Considering that most people change their batteries way too early (6.7 volts is where a battery change should occur), this is likely never going to be an issue.

Expected release date: May 8, 2006

MSRP: $59.95! (Compare that to the replacement cost of a "stock" solenoid!)

NOTE: PRE-ORDER PRICING WILL BE $49.95 for first 500 units, starting May 1st!

Supports: Any marker using barbs (Intimidator, NME, etc. - even electronic Auto-cockers!) We will have other manifold mount versions available in the near future. Please remember, if you do not have an Equalizer board in your marker, this solenoid WILL NOT WORK!

BTW be warned..........just remember that it took WAS 1.5years to finally complete the WAS board for the Impulse after announcing it. Some people payed for the board in the beginning and waited all that time to finally get it and still needed to send it back because of a programming flaw -

OWNAGE
04-23-2006, 06:01 PM
And a counter-statement about WAS only boards from Will at Tadao:

Michael,

Since the initial release is for barbed style solenoids only, the Infamous board will be fine. It has both an "on" and "off" time in the dwell and bolt delay settings, and uses the exact same power mosfet to drive the solenoid as an equalizer board.

Will Roberson

Team Chokepoint
04-23-2006, 06:04 PM
I wonder if this has anything to do with TPD's old design.

The battery life is nice and the reduced size will allow even smaller markers to be designed, but this isn't a very big upgrade for most markers. According to Jack Rice, you will need to redrill your marker to mount the noid for direct mounted solenoids, making it a very expensive upgrade. However, for markers like Timmies and Egos with hoses connecting the solenoid to the ram assembly, it should be much easier to installd.

The ability to independently control on / off settings is neat, but probably beyond the average buyer's understanding, although it should be interesting for tinkerers to play with.

f2f4
04-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Meh, the Race noid that comes in Egos is good enough for me. :|

Kinda old news, btw, although I suppose this is the first time it's been posted here.

I guess it's an advancement, albeit a very small one.

4THDEGREE
04-24-2006, 01:45 PM
Kinda old news, btw, although I suppose this is the first time it's been posted here.

Then why didn't you post it sooner? ;)

trophyman582
04-24-2006, 01:46 PM
Eh, its one of the biggest advancements in the past couple of years. I'd like to see it put into an actual marker and cycle that fast though.

lawnboi
04-24-2006, 02:31 PM
who needs to shoot 121 bps, its a good improvement, now its just getting a loader to go past a constant 30

bruc3
04-24-2006, 03:17 PM
if you oculd shoot 120 cps... you could brag about shooting 120 cps

EEric22
04-24-2006, 04:34 PM
CPS doesn't necissarily translate into BPS.

Sheps
04-24-2006, 08:44 PM
Maybe I'm not understanding fully, but what's the point? it's not like PSP's going to raise their cap to 120 bps to accomodate WAS's new noid'.

4THDEGREE
04-25-2006, 04:02 AM
The only real value to this is that I can see isit will withstand higher input pressures so less chance of blowing your solenoid.

f2f4
04-25-2006, 08:18 AM
Then why didn't you post it sooner? ;)
In all honesty, I really didn't feel it was worth posting. I personally feel it won't make a bit of noticeable difference in a marker.

4THDEGREE
04-25-2006, 08:18 AM
Fair enough.

DirtyBirdy51
04-25-2006, 08:28 AM
legacy by infinity cycles at 100cps. someone on PBR's spyder AMG can do 50+cps. with some heavy modding i could probably get an ion to 100cps. the whole idea is that its cycles per second, not balls per second

equipmentcounts
04-25-2006, 10:36 AM
121 cps is more than 40-50bps
If you have an extremely upped halo, your halo will feed thatfast
(Cheetah board=38 bps, Pulley=50ercent increase, Boost pack= more consiant and more speed)

Basically that means people "could" be shooting 40 bps on the field

but aren't WAS boards capped at 30 bps?

ase
04-25-2006, 11:37 AM
I wonder if this has anything to do with TPD's old design.


Pretty sure that was a hoax :dodgy:

Here we go again, spending money on bragging rights. "My solenoid can cycle 121 CPS."

Nobody can full that fast. Fastest I've seen, in semi, w/ fingers, is 17 bps. hooray for WAS.

ase
04-25-2006, 11:39 AM
121 cps is more than 40-50bps
If you have an extremely upped halo, your halo will feed thatfast
(Cheetah board=38 bps, Pulley=50ercent increase, Boost pack= more consiant and more speed)

Basically that means people "could" be shooting 40 bps on the field

but aren't WAS boards capped at 30 bps?


WAS boards are uncapped.

121 CPS = the thing has the ability to, in theory, open and close 121 x/second.

Team Chokepoint
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM
Pretty sure that was a hoax :dodgy:


No way, he definately got abducted by pirates :dodgy:

I do remember him talking about a new solenoid design that a company might buy the rights to. It had something to do with using a speaker-like dish that pulsed open and closed as opposed to a spool that moved along its major axis.

ase
04-25-2006, 12:56 PM
Hm, could be then.

TimberGhost0417
04-25-2006, 01:04 PM
That's it. I'm going to bust out a flame thrower's pack, mod it into a super fast loader that carries 35,000 paintballs and mow people down at 120cps :)