Does ACI stand a chance.....

[Shmoo]

HOw can ACI excpect to to well. For the same price of their guns you can get much better spyders. No ACI gun comes with double triggers and there rate of fire is absolute crap. I own a f4 illustrator tp and spent a ton upgrading it and then realized what a waste it was. I can get 5 bps for a gun I spnt 300 on. Now I own a Black dragun piE2 . This is way better. Dont get an ACI gun- you will have no chance- buy a spyder

[Maus]

Hey, hey. I'll bite.

Spent a ton? How? There's a total of one internals upgrade. What did you buy?

Functionally the Spyder and the F4 are identical. I'm sorry that you can't handle the 2 pound trigger pull, but the F4 cycles faster than 5bps. Then again, you don't buy an F4 for the firing rate.

Why buy a cheap spyder clone with an electro frame if you dump a lot of paint in a game? Someone who spends that much on paint would be much better served with a more consistent and feature-laden electro.

I've seen one Black Dragun, and as a player I wouldn't be comfortable playing with a frail trigger that doesn't seem like it would take a good impact or a dip in the creek. Why is its regulator before the expansion chamber?

[MeGotzGriffin]

Ohhhhhhhh dont you start with me!!!

How I hate it when some punk comes in and trashes the ACI company...face it ACI has a much better reputation for their gun making processes...ACI manufactures their guns in the US of A!!! woo wooo...and Kingman??? where??? Japan??? wtf just because they are made in the US your guarenteed that your gun is worthy of the All American Homeboy (me and all of you other American patriots out there)

ACI 1 Kingman 0

also ACI has a ton of reliability i can depend on my Griffin whenever i need the shot...ok ok maybe they arent as tough as Tippmans but hey what are as tough? I've seen plenty of spyders and believe me i just plain dont like them...too many plastic parts...and when you have sooooo many aftermarket part replacements that usually means that the gun breaks a lot...and people have to buy more parts

ACI 2 Kingman 0

DUH!!! you can buy totally kick ***** Illustrators and Griffins with tons of reliable upgrades already on them!!! and you know what you can rely on them!!! because...ACI believes that when customers buy their gun that they will be totally happy with it and 110% satisfyed with their purchase...guess what??? All of us ACI Lovers out there are 110% satisfyed....

ACI 3 Kingman 0

The bottomline is ACI cares for their customers...true true Kingman does sell more of their products but its because they are a common name...thats why I chose ACI because i knew when I finally held my gun I'd have a rugged, dependable, trustworthy gun in my hands and Air Concepts Industries has fully proved to me that they can build a great gun...

[Shmoo]

I can tell you- I own an ACI gun and I am not 110% satisfied. These guns are a bottemless pit of money wasting (that didnt make sense).You need to upgrade them to stand a chance and then you are left with a 300 dollar piece of crap that fires 5 bps, chops paint ( mine chooped like crazy- anyone else have that problem on the f4 tp). If I would have spent 300 doallers on anythin else....

TodaY I got my black dragun piE2. Good Lord. 220. Regulator (albiet a crappy one), verticle feed. Exspansion chamber. VERY FAST. LCD screen shot counter, game clock.. ect. FAST AS HELL. I mean compared to the F4 it was amazing. I was shotting 12bps.

ACI is a good company- but their products are infior. God bless.

[MeGotzGriffin]

good for you...you spent 300 dollars on your Black Dragun Kingman may have new fancy hundred dollar contraption guns but for your money ACI gets your probably some of the most top of the line guns for your money

Model of The Griffin TP totally stock
standard semi gun lets say around = $90
ACI H.V.C.= $15
Standard Bottomline= $20
Gas Thru Grip= $20
External Velocity adjuster= $10
Plus FREE 1 year warrentee...ACI gives you free most other companies...$20

Ok total that all up...$175 dollars...I got my Griffin TP for $130...$45 dollars...whooppeeee...but wait...that was enough for my Terminator...whos got the better deal???

[Shmoo]

What are you talking about-- most for my buck? What a load of crap. I spent 330 on my F4. That includes mask, 20oz co2, new barrel, exspansion chamber, drop foward and venturibolt. I spent 400 for my black dragun including a new mask, smart pats stainless barrel, nistro tank, drop foward and 12volt hopper. The two are not even comparable. Not by a LONG SHOT. The difference is amzing. So dont give me this garbage about ACI getting you more for your buck. That is just plain wrong.

[PBfreak01]

Well I fell sorry for you, jack. Because my F4 chops a hell of a lot less then a shutter, and I have nothing special on it. Why did you buy an F4 for ROF? Idiot. Don't complain to us about YOUR misfortune. If you don't like ACI, why didn't you return the F4 at the first sight of trouble.

[Shmoo]

I should have returned it. I dont know why I didnt. Anyways my point is that ACI can not survive if they continue to produce guns like the f4. They chop and their rof is horrible. What benifits does the f4 give you? It is durhable- sure it is. 1 good point. I had to call myslef out of so many games because of chops... ANd then when I was in, I was pinned down by people shotting really fast and when I poped out I could get out 3 -5 shots. The gun is not a competitor. Other guns have the same price and are just plane better. For example, the xtra is much better then the f4, even an upgraded f4. THat is a fact.

[MeGotzGriffin]

well considering i was talking about a totally STOCK ACI gun vs. a STOCK Kingman...there's quite a difference when you have a tricked out PiE w/ nitro (and OF COURSE YOUR GONNA GET A BETTER ROF W/ NITRO EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT) and then you have a stock ACI gun and a stock Kingman...I already know plus most other people know that ACI is much better in those terms and most people keep stock on their ACI guns (except for some people w/ barrel upgrades...like me) and their gun still kicks ***

and what about pump guns??? Kingman all they had was a Hammer...and that sold out long time ago ACI still has the Maverick and the Hornet and they still keep going and going and going...

Now dont get me wrong I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST KINGMAN AND SPYDERS...they just dont have a good a deal as ACI guns do...

Face it Kingman just doesnt have that type of quality that ACI has...ill leave you with one last note...chew on this for awhile...Kingman sells some of their guns at Wal-Mart...who else sells their guns at Wal-Mart???? none other than that ********* company that we call Brass Eagle...and look at all the deep SH*t theyre in right now...hmmmm i wonder whats happening to Kingman...

[wwhooper]

ACI stands plenty a chance!!!!! Most of the people at my field tried spyders, but like their griffins and F4's better!!!! Their barrels are also da bomb!!!!! Lots of people like their tanks too!!!!
Maybe it's cause I live near one of the main distribution places for the southeast, but ACI makes kick *** products no matter what you people think.

[PBfreak01]

You know what? You can kiss my butt, because with that "horrible" rate-of-fire, I took out 5 people in three games, and I might add each game only lasted for maybe 15 minutes. ROF is not everything, it's only everything to people who can't AIM. And maybe, just maybe, if you had read the manual, you probably would have found out what was causing the chopping.
My F4 has not chopped a single ball, they may break down barrel, but they do not chop. If you had spent time trying to remedy your problem, instead of spending time complaining, you might have fixed the problems. Now, GET OUT OF THIS FORUM, we have no room for people who bash companies and complain when nothing works for THEM.
And kudos to those of you who stand up for your beliefs about not just ACI, but other companies as well. I'm not afraid to say that BE makes some half-decent markers and gear.

[MeGotzGriffin]

you've said it all PBFreak...good stuff...

[PaintballPimp01]

That "horrible" rate of fire, Ive found, gives these guns much better chance of NOT breaking balls. So they dont fire quite as fast as a Spyder, who cares. 5 bps can keep your opponent pinned down just as easily as 7 bps. It only takes one ball!

How can ACI survive you ask? The same way it has for years in the past. ACi started out as a background manufacturer, doing contract work for companies such as PMI. A great example of this is the PMI Trracer (not the new, crappy Trracer SA), it is actually an ACI Maverick. ACI only got into the ditributing business when they acquired the rights to the Illustrator and produced the F2 (the F1 was never theirs) and then later F-model Illustrators and now the Griffin. And they are still going strong. Even today they have contracts with PMI and PGI, still producing guns like the Trracer and parts of the Mayhem as well as distributing it.

ACI is more than an up front distributer, they also play the back end of the field at the same time, and they'll be here for quite some time!

[Shmoo]

Ok- I am sick of this so this will be long,

One off you said stock vs stock, ACI wins, WRONG- the Xtra beats the crap out of the f4 and is only $20 more- or even less.

Ok great, go ACI- they can control the market for pump guns- there a lot of future there.

For those who say ACI is better $ for $- you are incorrect- Kingman is a much larger company and sells more markers at cheaper prices. ( and by the way I am not a diehard Kingman supporter just using an example)

Ok so what- Kingman sells at Wal-Mart- what a dumb statement. First of all half the people who trash Brass Eagle have never used one of their products. They just read reviews which say BE is horrible and then write reviews themselves which say BE is bad and this continues. Also, if you have not noticed, Kingman also sells high-end guns like the Flash and Em1. They sell their newbie guns at Wal-Mart for low prices- who really cares?

And who says ROF is not important- would you rather have a pump or angle considering accuracy is the same- case rested. ROF is important- how can you even dispute this. If ROF means nothing, then why do companies even manufacture fast guns and why do pro teams use them? (yea I know what you will say- “they are manufactured for morons who cant learn to aim”. I am sure that all the pro teams suck and make up for it with high ROF.

And yes, I read the manual- said my hopper is not keeping up with my ROF, so I bought a revy- VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE- now instead of 4 chops a day where I call myself out- it is 3. (the chops are devastating because you cant recock the gun- paintball fragments are caught in between the bolt and chamber and paint is everywhere- and I was using premium paint)

And for those who tell me to get of the forum because I am talking about a bad guns performance- what else is this forum for?! This is the purpose of the forum- to talk about paintball markers- their goods and bads! Jesus! And also- don’t get so personal- I am only expressing an opinion.

Also, someone said that ACI will survive because they have done so in the past- that is a dumb statement. How many companies have done well and then gone down the crapper.

Is it possible I just got a lemon- Who knows because I am not lying about my experience and all of you seem to love the F4.

I don’t know about you but my 330$ F4 is completely substandard when compared to my 400$ PiE2 black Dragun. The F4 is not good buck for buck.

[DRKIllustrator]

As far as I'm concerned ACI makes some of the best guns out there. I play mostly outlaw, ROF?? WTF?? Anybody can lay down 15bps with the right equipment. That's why I feel this sport is getting some messed up. Most people are 95% gun and 5% skill.
Shmoo I think you fall into that catorgry. I have absolutly no problem racking up killz with my F4, very few chops, it's 1 of the best guns I've shot, Shmoo you just need to learn how to tune your gun, cuz you see you can't buy everything, like experience.
Grow up or Shut up

[PBfreak01]

And no, I was refering to the ball retention spring being the cause of your problems. Don't make me sick 'Kat on you...We told you once, we don't want you bashing our company. Now, I'm going to ask you again to please leave this forum.

[Shmoo]

Ok that was just mean- you meany- stop getting so personal. You cant just shoot 15 bps- you need good equipment, very good. How can you say that ROF is not important- it is, clearly like I said before. Anyways the f4 was not the best gun Ive shott, not by a long shot.

[F.O.D.]

you people obviously haven't tryed other guns when I first tryed the f4 I thought it was ok. wwhen I compared it to my double trigger verticle feed venteri bolt 9 bps shooting spyder xtra WITH a drop foward, I thought the f4 was a peice of sh it when I tryed the pi e2 i thought it belongs in the dumpster, when I found out how much my friend(shmmo) spent upgrading it and it still sucked I thought how the he ll is this company in buisness so for all you noobs try other guns and I belive you will throw that peice of garbage where it belongs (in the garbage)

[Shmoo]

Ok so I should leave- What is the point of this forum. Should we all just sit here and talk about how great ACI is. What if they are not great? I am just telling an expirence. God.

[DRKIllustrator]

:) okay that was a little mean, sorry. But I've never had a problem with the F4 or ACI, but I have heard of bad sears

[PBfreak01]

Oh yeah! (sarcasm) Stock verses stock kingman would win. You don't seem to get it, do you? A stock SPYDER, that means the one with bare bones, no BL no sight rail, no LP chamber, no rear cocking, and EURO GRIP. Are you really going to tell me that a stock Spyder will beat an F4 performance wise? I don't think so.

[DRKIllustrator]

I agree with freak on that one, and BTW if you paid $330 for a stock F4 or even with some upgrades...you got ripped off

[F.O.D.]

my xtra CAME with verticle feed 2 sight rails on the side so you don't expose your self as much, it CAME with a low pressure chamber It CAME with a forgrip/xchamber it CAME with a drop foward it CAME with a ported polished barrel it CAME with a rear cocking, venteri bolt WITH a beaver tail you can take everything out of the gun, lube it and put it back in the gun in UNDER 5 minutes you're in denile my friend and I don't mean the river

[F.O.D.]

oh and it also came with a double trigger! and grips simmilar to houge

[Shmoo]

Ok look- when I say stock vs stock I mean price to price lets take a look:

The Spyder Extra

Vertical Feed System
Aluminum 45 2 Finger Trigger w/ Guard
Bottom-line set-up with Micro-line Hose
Rear Cocking 2nd Generation Venturi Bolt
Field Strippable Pin
Sight Rail with Beavertail
Anti-Double Feed
12" Micro-polished Barrel
Low Pressure Chamber
TL Velocity Adjuster
Removable Gas-Thru Fore Grip
Mini Expansion Chamber
Newly Designed Cocking Grip
Deluxe Drop Forward


154.99 at paintballgear.com

The F4 Illustrator:

New upgrades from the previous F-4 include a much more comfortable 45-Grip frame, new wide trigger shoe, and the trigger pull of only 2.2 lbs.! The gun has no external moving parts meaning less maintenance and less chance of breakdowns. All moving parts are hardened or hard anodized for long life. ACI's new patented valve system is proven to be the most air efficient in the industry allowing the F4 to operate in all temperature ranges with over 800 shots off of your 9oz. tank.

139.99 at paintballgear.com

for 24 more bucks you get A MUCH BETTER GUN

[DRKIllustrator]

FOD
why don't you do us all a favor and just leave? Or just admit it the F4 is much better than a spyder!

[F.O.D.]

nicely put.

[MeGotzGriffin]

HEY FOD guess what??? ACI has a little group of guns called F4 illustrator TP and Griffin TP The F4 TP comes w/ an ACI 2 piece Zero Gravity barrel (which i think is on of the best barrels for under $70) and it comes w/ and ACI 4 stage x-chamber which also is one of the better x chambers out there...the griffin comes with a hecka lot of QUALITY ACI upgrades...

[F.O.D.]

what don't you leave you look at the features of the xtra compared to the f4 it's much better

You're in denile my friend and I don't mean the river

[Shmoo]

The 330 included, lapco barrel, stock f4 TP, 6 stage xchamber, drop foward, 200z co2, v frrce mask, venturi bolt, and 9 volt revvy- the best prices I could find buddy.

[F.O.D.]

the tp comes with a 2 piece barrel hmm.. let me think NO! only if you get the expensive gun which might I add is cr ap plus you guys are motards (morons/retards) and people like you shoulden't be allowed to talk or even open that hole in their face

[Shmoo]

I got to say motards is funny. Also this is getting hectic- to many posts. ANd buddy, your wrong, the f4 you mentiond is the DX or GX or Gsomething- not the tp. The TP is the second to last version of the f4 series.

[MeGotzGriffin]

http://www.airconcepts.com/Markers/F4Series/F4TPblackS.jpg
hmmm I dunno...that loooks pretty to me....oh wait!!! Thats a 2 piece zero gravity barrel...and look there timmy! a 4 stage expansion chamber!!!

The F4-TP is anodized with our exclusive Graffiti Series anodizing. The TP version has all the standard features of the F4 plus a High Volume Cell, Venturi Bolt, Zero Gravity Combo Barrel and sub Zero 4 Stage Expansion Chamber with matching anodized finish


oh yeah i forgot about ANODIZING!!!
http://www.airconcepts.com/Markers/F4Series/F4TPgdvibS.jpg

and heres my pretty girl
http://www.stalkerpb.com/images/griffintp.jpg

Read the FIRST line of this foolz:

Features previously unheard of in this price category: 45 Frame with Wrap Around Grip, Vertical Bottle Adaptor and Bottomline, Patented All Weather Valve, 10" Barrel with Muzzle Break, Extruded All Aluminum Body, Raised Sight Rail, Operates on CO2, Nitrogen or Compressed Air, Power Feed, Velocity Adjustable from below 160 fps to over 300 fps - with no spring change, Compact Design that weighs only 2.3 pounds, Ambidextrous Cocking, No tools needed for field stripping and cleaning. Manufactured in the USA. The TP includes a factory installed gas through foregrip and an ACI High Volume Cell.
$129.95 wooooowooooo

[PBfreak01]

BOO-YAHH!!! You know you can't touch that! And that my friend is the sound of inevitability. And if the F4 and Griff. suck so much, why do so many people have them and swear by them? Face it, Kingman has some of the most screwed-up things in all paintball history: Funky BL config, horrible stock barrels, 'screw-in' venturi bolts, some of the worst trigger pulls of all time. Oh and remeber kids...BASE MODEL, not 'xtra' or 'shutter' or 'TL+.' Just base, Kingman gets there A**es kicked.

[wwhooper]

Ok now, what's with this "stock vs stock" BS? I mean, it's player not gun. I don't think you're stock vs stock test was the right kind of test. you need to set up a target at say, 100 ft. then vice grip the gun down, and pull the trigger about 10 times and see how tight the pattern is, record the numbers, perform the tes 2 more times, and average the numbers. ROF test I don't think can be performed by a person... I don't want this player vs plare test, cause that's a buncha BS and a player testing out 2 dif markers will naturally like the marker their use to better

[wwhooper]

The ACI zero gravity combo barrels are more accurate than most really expenssive barrels. I prefer them over boomies.

[Shmoo]

No no no no no no no no no- the gun you put up is not the TP. It is not the TP. It is not the TP. The Tp is the one without an exspansion chamber and withought a nice barrel. Read your own fu cking description. And as I said- maybe I got a lemon. Who knows- why else would you swear by your f4- just my expirence.

[Killer Kat]

Calm down and treat each other with some respect.

[MeGotzGriffin]

www.airconcepts.com

i didnt write my own description you stuttering 'tard...go to the site click on markers then click on the F4 Series of markers and feast your eyes...and shove it in your pie hole...then get the f%*k outta this forum and stop flaming

im sorry Kat but i cant treat anyone with respect after they flame my own company that I love and swear by...sorry

[Killer Kat]

It's best for all to TRY! Sticks and Stones, might break your bones, But I'm the guy who'll ban ya! :eek:

Come on guys, use your brains!~KK

[PaintballPimp01]

Why is such ROF such an issue? The Average Joe can't get above 9 bps with an electro! Now thats just sad, that people depend on their firepower that much that they feel they need 9 shots in 1 second!

[DRKIllustrator]

humm, I bought an Illustator TP with Zero Grav. barrel, HVC, 6 stage expansion chamber, 2nd generation V bolt, a 16oz CO2, JT mask, 9vt hopper, 200 rounds of paint, and o-ring kit for 199.00. So Shmoo my friend, I still say someone ripped you off.

[Shmoo]

No- you are the tard. Your right- I guess. They changed the TP to something new. The TP I bought only comes with gas thru grip and hvc ect. It did not have an exspansion chamber or nice barrel. The TP I have been talking about cost me only 150- not your 260$ TP. Now for 260 you could buy a much better gun than the new TP. And who says you cant get more than 9bps?

[Shmoo]

DRKIllustrator--

That is the most absurd deal I have ever heard of.

Was it the new or old TP?

Lets say it was the new one-

Gun (including barrel. exspansion chamber, venturi bolt and HVC) ==========$269

160z Co2===$15

Jt mask====$20

9volt hopper=$40

200 paintballs$5

O ring kit==== $2

350----at least.

How the hell could you get that for 199. And if it was the old TP it would be more becasue it would all be reatil

[DRKIllustrator]

brand new at paintballonline.com last april they had a closeout and I got a fire a** deal, BTW the barrel, XP chamber, Bolt that was all stock w/the gun

[sgt carman]

listen buddy you must have got a leomon and i have a ACI maverick i prefer pump it is cheaper and more challanging my friend has a spider extra he is selling it because i am tagging more people and i have never had any problems with it i have used the F4 and i loved it the ROF dosent matter if you can aim another friend(i have lots!) has a tippmann he goes through maybe 200 pballs in a day because he aims his marker!!!! and if you got a lemon you should have sent it back aci has great costomer service so i think you should try a pump or actually aim for a while and then come back and talk so all in all it is your fault for ill matinance or you got a lemon and should have sent it back but you didnt so it is your fault so dont dis the company and i wont dis kingman anymore!

[PBfreak01]

Okay now people, this has gone far enough. Let's just leave our opinions where they belong, in our heads. We didn't start anything with you, you started with us. You do not see us going into the kingman forum and saying, "just how long do you think Kingman will last?," do you? Let's just stop this childish nonsense, it is what gives paintball a bad rap anyway.