Are bad reviews being deleted?

[Shmoo]

I am noticing that when ever I leave a bad review for certain products, my review is deleted. I posted a bad review for the F4 tp 3 days ago. Today it was gone and I had to repost one. How can PBreview.come be effective or serve its purpose if all its products are rated reall good?

Anyone else have the same problem

[UTLadiesMan]

You're review will be deleted (eventually) if:

It is way too brief. (like one line in each box)

It has foul language.

It is not descriptive.

It has too many grammatical / spelling errors so no one knows what you are talking about.

Nobody knows what you are talking about anyway.

The review is fake. (i.e. it is clear you do not own the product)

The review is way off base. (i.e. you give an Angel a 1, and compare it to a Talon) If you include a lot of information why the product is so much better than everyone says, or so much worse, that is deserves the score it may not be deleted.

A few other reasons that are obvious (like putting a spyder review in for a cocker review)

[Wintermute]

If you want your review to stick around, make it helpful to people interested in purchasing the product. Nothing irritates me more than seeing some lamer say everything is good and nothing is bad, or vice versa.

Try and make your rating reflect how the product performs in comparison to competing products.

If you've had good or bad experience(s) with the product tell us about it, but try to make sure it's repeatable and not just a fluke first.

Again, concentrate on making a review that's valuable to the person who is considering purchasing the product. If you have nothing valuable to say, leave it alone. If you leave a really good, detailed review, we'll love you forever. ;) I just sent an email to a reviewer a few weeks ago thanking him for his review because it helped me decide to purchase that product.

[VeNoM]

ya if it wasnt a good useful review and it was just jibberish with a really bad score (or really good) just to try to make the score better, it can be reported and if it is indeed a "bad" review it will be deleted.

[Shmoo]

Period of
Product Use: 6 months

Paintball
Experience: 2 years

Similar
Products Used: Spyders, Black DRAGUN

Marker Setup: PiE2 Black Dragun with smart parts stainless barrel, 48ci nitro tank, and 12 volt revolution hopper

Recommended
Upgrades: Dont waste your money on them

The Good: WHAT IS WRONG WITH PBREVIEW> HOW CAN ANY REVIEW BE EFFECTIVE IF EVERY REVIEW THAT IS BAD IS DELETED> I AM GETTING SICK OF LEAVING REVIEWS FOR THIS GUN!!

Nothing is good here.

The Bad: The gun chops. The gun breaks. The gun is inaccurate. The gun has bad ROF. The Gun has no double trigger. The gun is difficult to strip compared to newer guns. The gun is heavy (but who cares).

Did I say the gun chopped. It chops like a mother. Constantley. The balls chop inbtween the bolt and chamber. You cant cock the gun and you have to call yourself out. Paint is every where. Very messy and inconvienent. I wasted money upgrading this piece of garbage. Dont. There are much better guns for the same amount of money-- much better. I cannot concieve why anyone would by this gun.

Conclusion: DO NOT BUY THIS GUN AT ALL.



Is this deletable????????????????????? You could say maybe. but here is a review that is much less detailed that gave a good review that HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE.



Period of
Product Use: 3 years

Paintball
Experience: More than 5 years

The Good: everything

The Bad: nothing

Conclusion: the BEST



According to your criteria this should be deleted but nobody deletes it because it is a good review. Explain.

[Wintermute]

That review has probably never been reported. I try to do so whenever I see one like it, but I can't get all of them. :P

And it is true to some degree that positive reviews are less likely to be reported than negative ones, simply because people who hate the product are unlikely to go through the reviews to find bad positive ones which might otherwise be ignored.

For one, putting that business about pbreview in your "good" section probably got your review pulled. Other than that, perhaps it's because you couldn't find anything positive to say about the gun or because you used a euphamism for a taboo word.

[VeNoM]

ya . . . we don't know all and see all (even though some may think they do, hehe) it just hasn't been reported, if i saw it i would have reported it . . .

[Shmoo]

Yea I know. Thething that buggs the S*** out of me is that my review will be deleted by next week and the other one will stay on for ever. Mark my words. Look for it in the f4 illustrator TP review section.

[Wintermute]

Perhaps... let's wait and see, eh? I'll wager that pathetic attempt to review the gun (not yours) will be gone in a week. Maybe yours will too, maybe it won't.

[Shmoo]

That review I showed- the crappy one, is dated december 30th. Its there to stay. I left an Identicle review to the one I have up now 3 days ago. Itsgone. I had to repost. Here are good reviews that are really old and really short. Also--- I notice there are no bad reviews for this gun after lilke this november. There were. I saw them. Then... pooof. Deleted.


NOVEMBER 1st 2001


The Good: The trigger is weird but i love it! The price is lower then i expected and when i use it, it doesn't seem like it will break apart!

The Bad: nothing much


Conclusion: Its worth buying and it works well
I love the double triggers!

This gun doesnt even have a double trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


OCTOBER 16 2001

This gun is great! The trigger pull is awesome. The price is rite and having no exterinal moving parts makes even better.

The Bad: The sight mount holes might need heilcoils

Conclusion: Great gun for the price. This baby is a keeper



SEPTEMBER 16 2001

The Good: My friend has this gun and i like it a lot

The Bad: nothing

Conclusion: it is worth what it costs



There are more but who cares-- get my point?

[DasBaldDog]

Trust me, yo. If you report it, and it's bad, then its history when I see it.

[Wintermute]

Sure, I see what you're saying. I don't agree, though. I think it's safe to say that someone went through that gun's reviews and made a pretty convincing argument to get rid of those bad reviews, but that doesn't mean that some good ones didn't get taken out as well.

Those examples you give are borderline... I've reported several like them, but I'm not sure whether or not the good folks at pbreview share my view that they're essentially useless.

I guess I can sum up my position in stating that a site with no negative reviews is useless, and that I don't think the pbreview moderators would allow such a thing to be.

Another possibility is that all those poor reviews you refer to as being gone now rated the gun as a "1", which it clearly doesn't deserve. I'm not familiar with how the mods handle extreme ratings when they're reported, but I wouldn't be surprised if an otherwise decent review was deleted because the author gave the product a rating that it obviously doesn't deserve.

[DasBaldDog]

Once again, if it's reported and I think it is unfair to the product at all, then it's GONE. Outta here. zipppppppppppppped.

I don't just delete willy-nilly. I use my common sense but if it's clearly fake or contains profanity, VERY short or otherwise a bad review, I take it out.

[Shmoo]

The beuaty of this website is that you can rate the gun whatever you want. So extreme ratings mean nothing.

Mr Moderator. Would you allow someone to rip down my review-- its posted above and says the F4 is a piece of crap?Its thorough enough- a crapload more then the examples I posted that are still up.

Thanks

[DasBaldDog]

Have you reported these reviews?


If so, when did you report them?

So many get reported that it sometimes takes us a while to get around to them.

[Shmoo]

But Mr. Modeerator, answer me! Would you delete my review?

[coyote]

Shmoo

I have reported a few reviews in my time. Most of them on Kingman products. Once in a while it's clear that someone is trying to trash the Spyder X-tra when he is a Tippman guy. Sometimes it obvious that a player has a bad paint match, or they aren't using a loader that is fast enough. I reported a review on the Flash that complained it "chopped like a blender". The setup and upgrades made no refference to a revy or any other power loader. I have had cases of paint through my Flash. Occasional barrel breaks, not one chop yet.

I would find the review you wrote informative. But if you rated the marker a 1 I would question it. I would understand you being angry, but I might be inclined to believe you had a problem with something other than the marker.

I often don't read the reviews with a 1 or a 10 attached. They tell me the user didn't think enough about the # they assigned the review. I would be less suspicious of yours though, because you openly spell out your complaints.

Just my 2 cents.

[UTLadiesMan]

Another problem is that most people don't venture into the depths of the reviews. If it's there from October or whatever, most people don't got 8+ pages deep. The fewer people that go back that far, the less likely it is to be reported. Some of us are methodically going through all of the reviews to over haul the site. If you would like to join their efforts, check out one of the stickeys in Off Topic.

[AK47]

Their is no way to catch all crap reviews. Most people stay on the first page then leave, this is how some crap reviews stay up.

[Wintermute]

See the post directly above your own, AK. That's one way to catch all the crap reviews, however long it may take.

[spazdr]

Deleting reviews is bull****. The excuses of the reviews being short or useing bad grammar is really lame. Someones getting paid or pressured to keep some product ratings up or this crap wouldn't be happening. Then the product ratings would actually be a closer match to what users think of them. If some people post real low ratings, they probably had a bad experiance with the product and are pissed off about it. Others post 9 or 10s for a mediocre product because they have little exposure to higher quality products. In the end the ratings will average out without any biased filtering of reviews.

[Wintermute]

If getting rid of poorly spelled, written, or thought-out reviews is biased, then I'm all for bias. If people aren't willing to take the time to review something correctly, their review doesn't belong on this site.

[VeNoM]

ya but there are many reviews that by reading them you would not think the person even had any experience with the product at all and they are just bashing it. or simply say "its awesome, get one" and give it a 10, that is not informative at all. people want to know about the product and what its like.

[spazdr]

My review of the Raven Knee/Shin Guards got deleted because I gave them a 3 compared to the average 9.5 . I actually purchased the pads for $40 over the internet and wore the new pads. They were extremely uncomfortable and I couldn't stand wearing them for more then a few minutes. I am 6 foot and 180 pounds and the pads say they are one-size-fits-all/adult, so I expected them to be good after seeing the reviews on this site. My review was short, but not shorter then other good reviews that only stay because they give a 9 or 10.
ex.
Period of
Product Use: 3 months

Paintball
Experience: 4 years

Similar
Products Used: JT e-motion(sucks total ace)

Marker Setup: custom autococker(the works)

The Good: Decent for sliding, very nice pads so it provides alot of cussion to your knees(but isn't that what its suppost to do?) and good price

The Bad: Velcro could be better

Conclusion: VERY nice pads, buy them!!

10 / 10
-----------------------------

The Good: very coumphortable. great range of movement, fit under my pants welL.

The Bad: The straps can feel a bit uncomphortable if there not on right, but other than that nothing.

Conclusion: great product, everyone should have them. not just beacuse there nice and comphy but beacuse they protect your knees and shins.

10 / 10
------------------------------
A short review is no excuse for a deletion.

[Crime Dog]

Originally posted by spazdr
Deleting reviews is bull****. The excuses of the reviews being short or useing bad grammar is really lame. Someones getting paid or pressured to keep some product ratings up or this crap wouldn't be happening. Then the product ratings would actually be a closer match to what users think of them. If some people post real low ratings, they probably had a bad experiance with the product and are pissed off about it. Others post 9 or 10s for a mediocre product because they have little exposure to higher quality products. In the end the ratings will average out without any biased filtering of reviews.

I'm one of the Mods that helps filter out the useless reviews. If any of the other Mods are gettin' paid, THEN I WANT A PIECE OF THE ACTION!

All kidding aside, your accusation is really kinda ignorant. Trust me. None of us Mods that help filter the useless and unreadable reviews are getting paid to do anything. We do this strickly on a volunteer basis, to try and help the paintball community at large.

For example, I'm a Tippy Owner. I read through a lot of the Tippy reviews. I report the ones that are obviously only there to trash a perfectly good gun, and I ALSO report all the ones that say "This gun is great, there's NOTHING wrong with it." That's bunk. Every gun has it's drawbacks, and it's plusses. I try to stay as unbiased as possible. So, when someone accuses me of being biased...

I Don't Take That Very Lightly.

So, before you accuse us of biasedly deleting reviews, how about you do your homework on how the process works, hm?

Deleting reviews because people don't know how to spell or use a keyboard is not "lame." If you can't understand what the person is saying, the review is useless and doesn't belong on the site. People that can't post a review without swearing other every word shouldn't be reviewing as well. We're trying to get mature feedback so that Joe Consumer can make an intelligent, unbiased choice on what product to buy.

Just for the record.

[spazdr]

Whatever your reasons for deleting reviews, its still made me, spazdr-consumer, waste $40 plus shipping for some crappy knee/shin pads because every negative review was deleted, if it was short and someone mispelled a few words, it still would have better informed me of the product and what other people thought about it. If the review was written in another language I could still understand what they thought of the product by the rating number 1-10. Just because you like a product, doesn't mean that someone else finds some faults important enough to earn the product a low rating. The very fact that you delete reviews because of what you think about them makes it a biased decision. I want to know what everyone thinks of a product. Not just the moderator.

[Crime Dog]

And you have PROOF that every negative post on these kneepads was deleted? I'd be interested in seeing how you prove that was done...*shrugs*

"The very fact that you delete reviews because of what you think about them makes it a biased decision."

The decision to delete reviews or not delete them has nothing to do with the product, but with the biased rating that is given to said product. Whether good OR bad. Deleting a post that is not readable due to lazieness on the part of the poster (won't take the time to find the right keys, or use a stinkin' dictionary) is not "bias."

You must be missing the point. In which case, there's no convincing you we're not being biased. A review that says "It's all good, and nothing is bad" or "everything is bad on this product, and there's nothing good" is not a review. It's a general statement that has no thought put into it, and no discernable intelligence. A review tells me what is bad about the product, and what is good about the product. A statement that is general tells me nothing, and thus, does not qualify as a "review". I challenge you to find a review like the ones that we're justifiably deleting in a respectable work like "Consumer Reports" or any other journal of professional level...

[spazdr]

if it was short and someone mispelled a few words, it still would have better informed me of the product and what other people thought about it. If the review was written in another language I could still understand what they thought of the product by the rating number 1-10

translation: If someone says "It sucks 1 / 10" or "its good 10 / 10" the combined consesus would still give me a better idea of what the average paint ball players think of a product and not just what journalists think of paintball products. i.e. 8 "its good 10 / 10" posts and 2 "It sucks 1 / 10" average out to an 8 rating and that gives me a good idea of the quality of the product.

[UTLadiesMan]

Only problem with that is that most people who post those reviews don't own the product, or have never used one. Do you know how many people post on B.E. products and say either "the talon is the best marker of all time 10000/10" or "POS 1/10"? Most of those people are LYING and are therefore making the entire review system BIASED. Likewise, those are the exact same posts on Angels, usually each person swaps. i.e. one person will go all the way down the Angels, and say "The damn thing broke apart, and shot the bolt at my friend and killed him. But at least that bolt shot pretty accurately. 1/10." (which someone actually did write under every angel." Those people then go to some other product (like the one they use), and go all the way down the list "These rock. Get one know or you suck. 10/10."

As long as those pointless reviews are posted we have to delete bad reviews or the whole point of a review system is pointless.

[spazdr]

OK, have it your way. But next time you buy a product because it is the highest rated and then find out it has some significant flaws and those reviews were taken out... I'll be laughing when your arguing my position.

[UTLadiesMan]

I always make it a point to try out every product before I buy it anyway. Other people's opinions do matter to me, but I don't know how I'll like it until I try it first.

[Shmoo]

"Mark my words. Look for it in the f4 illustrator TP review section."


WHAT DID I TELL YOU. MY REVIEW WAS DELETED. NOT BECAUSE IT WAS UNTHOROUGH BUT BECAUSE IT WAS BAD. JESUS. Good reviews are kept even if they SUCK. My review said what I disliked and was deleted. IT IS GONE NOW. Look under the f4 illustrator TP. This is absurd. It is making this website suck ***. If bad reviews are deleted how can any review be usefull? Mr. Moderator! What is going on! Why is this happening. It is destroying this site.

Ok I'm done.

[blinkpk11]

prolly got deleated bvecause u didnt explain why this product sucked. u can think that it sucks, but you must compose a reasonalbe argument of when it got the score it did.

[Shmoo]

You want to see my review???? Scroll up the page. Yea right there. There it is. Look at it. It explains what I hate about the gun. Its only gone because it is bad.

[DasBaldDog]

Sorry Shmoo, but you seem to be a pompous little bugger.

Yes, your review is EXTREMELY deletable. Not ONLY do you badmouth this site but your review is VERY under detailed, contains MUCH more opinion than fact and it's always been my opinion that NO paintball item in the world (not even a broken talon) deserves a 1.

And for you record, I delete 10/10 reviews ALL the time if they do not fit the jacket for a good review. Actually, I prolly delete more high score reviews than low ones.


Yes there are kinks left to be worked out of the system but the main problem are arrogent little anti-christs that think we should hand them everything on a silver platter. Why do you read the friggin reviews instead of just reading the average number and buying the thing based on that?

Is that so hard? Reading the individuals reviews and see the merit for yourself? Well excuse us if our FREE information isn't up to YOUR level of expectation. We do a DARN good job around here. Muck, Killer Kat, C4, Andrew, Sid, Creek, Junkie, Wolvy, Twitch, Richy, Halliday, Magnus, Silent Knight and ALL the other mods (sorry if I forgot your name boyyos) DO THEIR DARNDEST to provide you with, FREE OF CHARGE, the absolutely BEST paintball reviews and forums on the ENTIRE internet.

How about you give credit where credit is due and start using your brain for a change?

[MuckRaker]

I will delete good and bad reviews if they contain any foul language ... just because you think its cool to say, "This product is crap," doesn't mean the other 200+ users who log onto this site everyday want to read it. OK, maybe you wrote a review that was negative, I really don't care, but if your review said:

Good: Not much

Bad: Everything

Conclusion: DON'T EVER BUY THIS PRODUCT

same for reviews that say the opposite, or say Good: Nothing, then list 50,000 reasons why the product is no good and concludes by saying, "Don't buy this product."

I've worked as a writer since 1986, and believe me, no editor in the world would publish some of the stuff that is being passed off as reviews on this site. I don't expect everyone to be a professional, but I do expect the reviews to be somewhat readable, intelligible and give me enough info so that I can make a decision about the product.

As for reviews that say, "This barrel constantly breaks balls," of "These balls constantly chop and break," a lot of that has to do with the paint/barrel match. If you're writing a review for a large bore paintball, and shooting it through a small bore barrel, it's gonna bust and break ... and it's the users fault, not the equipment.

If you think we're tilted toward certain products, then you need to go through the reviews more often, we only delete poorly written reviews ... however, if you see reviews that you think are poorly written, by all means report them. Remember, there are 7,000 members and only a handful of mods ... and it's hard for us to cull through the thousands of reviews on this site, that's why we've asked the members to help out, look through the reviews and report those that are poor.

Thanks

Lance "MuckRaker" Davis

[Shmoo]

Hey dont get me wrong, I love this site and think its great. I just think it is hurting the site when good reviews (examples I posted before) stay when the really only say 3 words ( BAD: nothing GOOD: everything CONCLUSION:buy) and my review , which is detailed compared to those get deleted within 48 hours of being posted. Ok so now I am going to go back and write a very detailed review. It will proably be deletd anyway. Also the part about opinion and fact, arent all reviews opinion?

[VeNoM]

i would not say your review was detailed, you just bashed the gun in every way you could and didnt say 1 good thing about it. you didn't say why things went wrong or what the problem was, you just full out bashed it and i would have deleted it too. if there are problems with the gun, state them and let people know. dont just list how much it sucks and everything that sucks. . . try to be a little more constructive.

[Shmoo]

My new review. Is this detailed enough? Should this be deleted Mr. Moderator?






Alex Saturday, February 23, 2002

Period of
Product Use: 6 months

Paintball
Experience: 2 years

Similar
Products Used: I have used the spyder Xtra, SE, TL plus, 2000, and Compact. Also the Tippman 98, and PiE2 Black Dragun

Marker Setup: PiE2 Black Dragun with smart parts stainless barrel, 48ci nitro tank, and 12 volt revolution hopper

Recommended
Upgrades: For this gun I would truley reccomend nothing- dont waste your money, but if your intent on buying this marker, I would suggest a venturi bolt and revy (to stop ball chopage)

The Good: The stock barrel is pretty good considering it is stock and the gun looks beuatiful! It is pretty durhable compared to other guns and is easy to field strip (but not compared to newer guns)- no tools required to feild strip. When it is shotting correctly I guess it preformed up to par. Barley though.

The Bad: Where to start. The trigger pull is really long and the gun comes only with a single trigger. Its kind of heavy and you need tools to change the velocity. But the main problem, the thing that makes this gun a low number on my scale is its unreliabailty and incrediable ball chopping rate. I was chopping balls like crazy. Every game. The ball shell would be trapped inbetween the bolt and chamber and it would not only get paint everywhere inside the gun, I could not reock it and would have to call myself out. The manual (which is good actually) told me that my hopper was not feeding fast enough. So I got a 9volt reavy. Even this and a later addition, a venturi bolt, would not fix the ball chopping problem. This would cause the gun, even If I shot through the break to have horribly erratic accuraccy. The rof fire sucks, but no one excpects high rof from this gun. Did I say the trigger pull is long. I am giving it a 2 because I have to save one for a marker that falls apart when I pull the trigger.

Conclusion: This gun really is a piece of garbage. I see no reason why anyone should get it. It has no advantages to speak of. All it does is chop paint and cause problems. There are much better markers for in the 150 price range. Seriously, dont buy this marker.

2 / 10 Report Review

[VeNoM]

thats better . . . but a 2? haha, ah well works for me, i dont have a problem . . .

[Shmoo]

Yea! Whoppee! Hope this doesnt get deleted.

[PBfreak01]

You know Schmoo...I don't like you very much, but I will give you this advice. I spend nearly half an hour thinking on what kind of review the product deserves. And if I don't like something on the marker, but someone else might, and I list it under bad, IT DOESN'T EFFECT MY RATING, and by the way, the best place for something like that is the CONCLUSION. And also, give DETAIL about what didn't work as advertised, why it didn't work, when it didn't work...Saying that an Angel didn't work after playing (exageration) with it 80 times could very well mean it need to be recharged. If the markers' anodizing came off, but didn't take away from it's performance, it means NOTHING...If it works, but doesn't look nice, it still works. Have you ever seen the really serious rally cars? They look ugly as hell, and yet they work better then the "nice looking" ones. Bottom line here is think before you do, not do before you think.
And by the way, chopping is not ALWAYS related to feed rate. It can be because the marker is not recocking fast enough, the ball detent (or the nubbin in the case of the 'Mag and f4) might be worn, might be a nice sharp piece protruding from the powerfeed due to a bad weld. Any number of things could be related to chopping.

[spazdr]

If I didn't like something on a gun, I would definately drop the rating. People read reviews to find out what you think of a gun. People don't want to hear what you think someone else might think. yo. If a gun chops every 100 balls because of a bad weld, that manufacturer did poor quality control and likely shipped hundreds of other crappy guns. I wouldn't ignore the fact that my gun sucked and give a good rating because it is possible that some other gun somewhere might no be as bad as the one I got.

[coyote]

Spazdr...

The moderators here don't have an easy job. Every call they make will have someone that disagrees. They are trying to keep this whole sight clean, constructive, and honest. There are a lot of reviews that are transparently dishonest. Those are easy, and they SHOULD go. If I'm looking at cocker sto reviews and 3 or 4 of them there is some jerk posting "why get a cocker when you could own an Angel? 1/10. Sometimes the same guy is trying to sell an angel. Reviews like that serve nobody.

This is an imperfect system, but it beats the heck out of buying gear without the extra knowledge. It is good to know that automags are gas hogs or that the flatline barrel get extra distance, but isn't entirely accurate at long distances.

[Shmoo]

Why dont you like me. I said why the gun was bad. I said spcifically what was wrong with it. I said why it is a piece of garbage. What more do you want from a review?

[coyote]

I'm cool with ya Shmoo...

You started a relevant smart thread that got a lot of bright minds involved. Were you wronged? Maybe, I don't see a problem with your intitial review. Like I said before though, I often ignore those 1/10 or 10/10 reviews. I want to know why someone gave something a 7 that has an overall rating of 9.2.

I think you get that. You also have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about that review. Let it go. I don't think it was bad enough to go, but I am no fan of 1 ratings. They just tell me you were mad, and the product was not performing.