Tippmann Takeover, its old, but i didnt know about it.

[tviz]

Suprise Suprise, well i was at the local paintball store asking why me E-grip was haveing problems and he said thats why he dosnt realy cary there products anymore, i thought he ment the e-grips, but upon further inquisition i found he actualy ment tippmann in general.

Reasoning behind it being that 2 years ago tippmann was taken over by a company that buys other companys improves profit margens, and then sells them.

So how do you improve profit margins? Well aparently they cutt on quality.

The owner explained that BT, is one of the Tippmann owners(maby not owner but designed the model 98 as stated in later posts) that got out when he didnt like how things were looking and that BT is a wey better alternitive to tippmann.

Now, i own a tippmann A-5 (an old one before the takeover) and havent had any problems with it, but now this whole problem with the E-grip is proveing what he says is correct, besides the fact that this guy knows whats hes talking about with paintball.

I dont know, is tippmann going down the tubes? I for one think this is a real possibility. However there is still a ton of fans for tippmann (myself included in some respects) so maby its not as bad is i think? Perhaps there old models are still normal for the most part and its just the newer ones (i went on the 2ebsite and i saw this....thing....well a line of things....and the X-7)



I'm gonna have to agree about tippmann going down hill. Back in the day when I got my A5 (it was an old not matte black one) it ran perfectly, untill I added an egrip which was after the turnover. That thing gave me all kinds of hell, but in the nearly 2 years of owning that thing, I only had one problem with the original parts. (Not counting the egrip) The grip broke on me many times... Later a friend of mine bought an A5 that was after the takeover, and only 2 weeks after owning it something went wrong. Never found out what, cause it was too serious for us to fix ourselves (had to take it to the shop) with this example in mind, I do believe they threw quality to the wind, just to turn up a better profit. Tis sad really.


I think this sums up what i am saying alot. I dont think there stuff is becomeing horrable but i think its becomeing worse....I know the company was REALY good when i got my A-5. Question is, is it still as good.

[PTE. O'Hearn]

it might be true, but I'll say with tippmann, because thay have great customer service.

[pbmike1888]

BT isnt as popular at tippmann. unless they stop making tippmanns altogether then theres no way. tippmann is what makes speedball. they are the only true woodsball companies.

[AngryInsurgent]

I don't think the takeover has had any drastic changes on quality. There are other ways to improve profits than lowering quality (layoffs, training, improving efficiency.) If the new company did to tippmann markers what the BE buyout did to the viewloader revy's quality, we would have noticed by now.

Also, I disagree with him on BT being a way better company than tippmann. IMO, BT has gone down the path of improving looks and adding scenario/milsim gear rather than improving performance.

Sadly, tippmann also seems to be following down this same road, focusing on making their guns look more realistic rather than improving performance with the new X-7.

[NoelyDeezNutz]

Summit's takeover was really shown when the Triumph line of products came out...

Tippmann's e-grips arent made from tippmann... they are made by WAS... and there was a batch of WAS boards that had an issue with the solonoid sticking/dying...

BT was founded by Ben Tippmann, he designed the model 98... hence why all BT markers are based on the same design....

he was Dennis Tippmanns nephew... he wasnt a owner of tippmann... he got all pissy when the 98 took off, and wanted more money because his marker was a raging success.... and Dennis Tippmann said no... Ben left, and started his own company, BT, got sued by tippmann pnuematics, needed to change some of his products so they arent confused with tippmanns.... and we end up with where we are now...

tippmann still making tanks, and BT trying to steal people, by having TIPPMANN in his name, and making their products similar to Tippmanns as well...

[TheSpy11]

The problems with the e-grip started with the acquiring, by Tippmann, of WAS's Tippmann e-trigger production rights. It did not start with Tippmann's takeover. In the past two years, Tippmann has been stepping up to the plate with new and improved products since the Summit deal while still keeping the Tippmann quality and service. It's been a positive change for the Tippmann brand.

BT is just a speciality company in paintball at the moment. They are not a substitute for Tippmann and never will be. Tippmann has now entered BT's market while expanding the normal lines that have given them success for years. Right now Tippmann products still stand far ahead of BT's.

Even though you state that the store owner, or whatever occupation he is, knows a lot about paintball, it doesn't sound like he knows enough. He's only hurting himself if he doesn't sell Tippmann products.

[hybrid-sniper]

All that really happened after summits aquisition was some more products became more available to the general public (carried in wal mart...etc) and some other models were released to obviously appeal to newer players.
Similar to what happened with WGP, got bought out and their whole line seemed to have been majority designed towards newer players (Trilogy lineup for example)

[tviz]

well, he still carries A-5s, but anyways, trust me, this guy knows what he is talking about. If i accidentily missquoted him thats me, but trust me on this one.

[dukedude4evr]

i dont believe the takeover. lol if it does get taken over, o well. All of tippmann's markers are fine. The accessories suck. I mean hey, the egrip = terrible. The APE one = nice....see where i am going? Barrels, they dont suck, but aren't as good as CP or Dye or Proto or such and such. And then hoppers. The Triumph series and the cyclone = lower than other ones. I mean tippy = good, but the accessories = ok, but not as good as others.

[AngryInsurgent]

i dont believe the takeover. lol if it does get taken over, o well. All of tippmann's markers are fine. The accessories suck. I mean hey, the egrip = terrible. The APE one = nice....see where i am going? Barrels, they dont suck, but aren't as good as CP or Dye or Proto or such and such. And then hoppers. The Triumph series and the cyclone = lower than other ones. I mean tippy = good, but the accessories = ok, but not as good as others.

There's not much to believe, it already happened....two years ago.

I agree with you on some of the tippmann accessories being somewhat inferior. For example, I'd rather have a J&J, CP One piece, or apex than a "tippmann sniper barrel" or tippmann flatline any day.

But I wouldn't exactly call the egrip terrible, and the concept of the response trigger and cyclone improving ROF using only air rather than electronics is something I find rather innovative and great.

[tviz]

The problems with the e-grip started with the acquiring, by Tippmann, of WAS's Tippmann e-trigger production rights. It did not start with Tippmann's takeover. In the past two years, Tippmann has been stepping up to the plate with new and improved products since the Summit deal while still keeping the Tippmann quality and service. It's been a positive change for the Tippmann brand.

BT is just a speciality company in paintball at the moment. They are not a substitute for Tippmann and never will be. Tippmann has now entered BT's market while expanding the normal lines that have given them success for years. Right now Tippmann products still stand far ahead of BT's.

Even though you state that the store owner, or whatever occupation he is, knows a lot about paintball, it doesn't sound like he knows enough. He's only hurting himself if he doesn't sell Tippmann products.

Your right in the fact that there werent any problems with the E-grips with the old 13 BPS ones but its still tippmanns responsiblility that things with there name on it dont suck. About BT, they have markers its not just accesorys.

Now when you say that the store owner probably dosnt know much about paintball that could mean two things, either you dont know anything about paintball or i missquoted him. The owner plays on a pro team that dosnt nessesarily win but dose well in major tournys, add to that working in his store 5 days a week i think he might know a thing or 2.

But please, dont take this for what it isnt, i still generaly like tippmann myself and use there things, the post is mainly for seeing what people have to say.

[^_^]

BT isnt as popular at tippmann. unless they stop making tippmanns altogether then theres no way. tippmann is what makes speedball. they are the only true woodsball companies.
Tippmann and speedball shouldn't be even used in the same sentence lol (oops I just used them in the same sentence:P)

[AngryInsurgent]

BT is just a speciality company in paintball at the moment. They are not a substitute for Tippmann and never will be. Tippmann has now entered BT's market while expanding the normal lines that have given them success for years. Right now Tippmann products still stand far ahead of BT's.

QFT

I'd take an A-5 or 98 over a BT-4 anyday

[ICU117]

I'm gonna have to agree about tippmann going down hill. Back in the day when I got my A5 (it was an old not matte black one) it ran perfectly, untill I added an egrip which was after the turnover. That thing gave me all kinds of hell, but in the nearly 2 years of owning that thing, I only had one problem with the original parts. (Not counting the egrip) The grip broke on me many times... Later a friend of mine bought an A5 that was after the takeover, and only 2 weeks after owning it something went wrong. Never found out what, cause it was too serious for us to fix ourselves (had to take it to the shop) with this example in mind, I do believe they threw quality to the wind, just to turn up a better profit. Tis sad really.

[TheSpy11]

Your right in the fact that there werent any problems with the E-grips with the old 13 BPS ones but its still tippmanns responsiblility that things with there name on it dont suck.

True, they're responsible for e-grip's reliability, and they've certainly had some problems with them. However that doesn't mean they won't be fixed - or already have been. Shortly after Summit took over, the old 15bps e-grip was upped to 17bps. That e-grip had no problems. I think many people are taking one problem (The WAS e-triggers) and transferring that a problem with the whole company. That hasn't been the case! Only one small, fixable issue has been present. Remember when the original Cyclone had a problem? Tippmann eventually got it right, and we don't even mention it anymore. One small thing right now isn't anything out of the ordinary. Also there will still be the occasional lemon in Tippmann products. That also normal with any company and the rate of occurrence with Tippmann products has appeared to be stationary for many years. You can't even compare Tippmann's quality products against a company like Kingman.


Before the Summit deal: Basically no change that I remember (about two years) with Tippmann products since the A-5.

After the Summit deal:

-Introduction of long-needed Custom Pro and tweaking of the A-5 and 98c to bring them up to date.
-New camo finishes and graphics kits
-Cyclone for 98 series
-New rental kits
-Acquisition of Straight Shot
-Introduction or totally unique C3
-Triumph hopper and marker line is introduced
-ACT is intoduced
-WAS production rights acquired
-Alliance with Spec Ops
-new X-7 is revealed

All of this while keeping the Tippmann quality control and reliability. It's been a good two years for Tippmann since the Summit deal. I don't understand why the store owner thinks that Tippmann has gone downhill. Except for the WAS problems, it's been nothing but positive.

[pbmike1888]

i think of the BT as like the generic brand. i know its probly almost as good and it might be a little cheaper. but y not spend the few extra bucks to get the REAL thing.

and plus....its awesome that tippmann has those package deals. i got the 98C package, and my friend gt the a-5 one. thats perfect for beginning players...its cheap and it has everything you need in it. i dont see BT doing that.

i bet 75% of beginner players with tipmanns got the package deal.

[tviz]

spy makes a good point. and to mike, im not saying OMG DONT GO BUY A TIPPMANN THEY SUCK!!!! It is probably still the best thing out there for a beginner. If anythign summit made them appeal more to beginners, but i still wonder if some things are being overlooked by the new tippmann.

[CountyPaintball]

I think what might be more accurate is that your proshop deals more with NPS than with Tippmann directly. NPS no longer carries Tippmann products because of their deal with BT. THAT is probably why he's pushing BT over Tippmann. In my experience, Tippmann products are still top of the line for the scenario/woodsball crowd.

[tviz]

ya country you might be right to a point, but they pritty much carry whats is good and they still carrey some tippys

[ICU117]

Dude.. no offense or anything, but spellcheck is a man's best friend.