Dad of newbie needs help!!!

[Black Dragun]

OK first off lets establish that I am challenged at best when it comes to these things... My son got a Black Dragun, the reciever is Blue Alum, and the frame is Black Alum. Has a 9v battery in grip panel and switch on the back side of grip. We figured out how to shoot this gun but it doesn;t work in semi-auto mode, I can only get one shot and then I have to recock it each time manually. Please help me if you can, I can post pics if they will help. Also I broke the trigger off, where can I get a replacement?

[ofanim]

let me get this straight...you can;t get it to fire in semi? and it shots one shot then you have to re cock it? hmm...you need to prolly need to clean and lube your striker, or even polish it, next if your reg isn't turned up already you may have to turn that up a little, and next check your valve, because if it isn't cocking, it isn't getting enough blow back, or the striker is sticking. oh and i have a stock tes trigger, i've drilled it to make it 3 point adjustable...don't know if it will fit your's but lmk if you want it....hope this helped

[DarkeWolf]

Well, dragun is out of business, so you wont be able to get any stock parts ordered straight from them. Or be able to have a paintball shop order parts from dragun. :(

you can find the stock triggers on ebay for fairly cheap-
http://cgi.ebay.com/DRAGUN-THE-ONE-TES-DOUBLE-TRIGGER_W0QQitemZ7222798820QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3628 5QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

or you can go ahead and upgrade to a better trigger. a diablo wrath trigger would work, and is much more adjustable than the stock triggers.
http://www.fireballmountain.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FBM&Product_Code=fbmdt
(yeah, I know the ones pictured dont look like they would fit. they dont have any pics of the wrath trigger, but they are listed for ordering at the drop box to the right of the pics.)

I'm gonna pm tator and altec. they've both got these guns, so they could take pics to help show you which parts we are talking about, to help you try to get this marker working correctly again :)

[Black Dragun]

let me get this straight...you can;t get it to fire in semi? and it shots one shot then you have to re cock it? hmm...you need to prolly need to clean and lube your striker, or even polish it, next if your reg isn't turned up already you may have to turn that up a little, and next check your valve, because if it isn't cocking, it isn't getting enough blow back, or the striker is sticking. oh and i have a stock tes trigger, i've drilled it to make it 3 point adjustable...don't know if it will fit your's but lmk if you want it....hope this helped

thanks for the help...now just to establish the fact I have NO idea, by "reg" you mean regulator, I don't even know where it is... told ya, I have no clue.

[DarkeWolf]

Got hold of Altec. He's got some pics that he has of his taken completely apart. But he's gonna label all of them, so that it will be easier for you to know which parts we are talking about.
This will help you out a lot, to understand what we are talking about, when we make references. Once he's got that posted, I'll start trying to help you out on getting this shooting correctly ;)

And yeah, "reg" is an abbreviation of the regulator. the regulator looks like a grip bar that is connected vertically in front of the trigger frame. The trigger frame being the part that has the trigger, the trigger guard, grips, and all of that.
But, I'm not sure if the BD (black dragun) that you've got came with a reg, or if it came with a gas through or expansion chamber. If it came with either of the latter, then it's not adjustable. I'll have to wait on Altec for that one.

[Agitator]

From the pic, it looks like just an expansion chamber.. not a regulator.

If altec is taking pictures, there's no sense in me doing so as well, though I'm more than happy to try and contribute to the discussion;)

Thank's for the mention, darke;)

[Black Dragun]

thanks for all the help... I cleaned and oiled everything and I'll shoot it tomorrow morning when I get home from work. What do I look for as far as aftermarket and parts to make it better, I can't seem to find this brand listed anywhere?

[Lopez17]

There likely aren't a whole lot of aftermarket parts available. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe some Spyder parts should be able to be used on a Dragun. As one of the previous posters has stated they're more or less out of business at this point.

[DarkeWolf]

aye, as Lopez mentioned, the BD is 100% spyder compatible, save for the trigger.
The first thing I'd do is upgrade the barrel, for better accuracy. J&J Ceramic or S2, CP 1 piece, are all good barrels in the 30-45 dollar range. In either a 12 inch or 14 inch length. Spyder threaded is what you'd need.

if the marker has a lcd board, I'd recommend throwing a lighter trigger switch into it. you can get them under 3 bucks at radio shack. or the sundragonpps and scenariodreams websites in my sig both carry solderless 50g switches. Agitator can also custom set one for you if you like.
If you have the led version then the switch wont do you any good. since the led is capped at 10 bps, so improving the rate of fire wont help, since it's board won't let you go over 10.
If you've got the led version, somthing to think on later on down the road would be the t-board. also available from scenariodreams. the tes board is what you'd want. it will let the gun shoot a lot faster, and better. it would also let you install eyes to help prevent chops.

you're prolly running co2, so taking the gun and the tank down to a paintball shop to get the tank anti-siphoned would help out some.

dernit...I hope altec gets those pics up soon!

Tator- no problem bro!

[DarkeWolf]

WHOAH! Wait a second! I just looked at the pic that you posted again. The gun in the pic doesnt have a LPC!!! :eek:
Black_Dragun- look at the pic in this auction. do you see the horizonal silver bar looking thing that is to the left of the guage on this gun?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Dragun-Paintball-gun_W0QQitemZ230073554802QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16048Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
does your gun have one of those, even if it looks different than the one on that gun?

[Agitator]

thanks for all the help... I cleaned and oiled everything and I'll shoot it tomorrow morning when I get home from work. What do I look for as far as aftermarket and parts to make it better, I can't seem to find this brand listed anywhere?

Lopez and darke have it right there. There are many many parts that you can buy. YOu just can't look for them under the dragun name.

Here are a few upgrade parts that make for a good example:

$3.99 ~32 degrees spyder spring kit (fits)
Spyder threaded barrels all fit
Any regular "vertical male" regulator will fit right onto the gun
As far as the receiver for the tank goes... That's all personal preference.
Most spyder valves fit.
It sounds like you are talking about basic maintenance parts.

maintenance items:
O-ring kits for spyders fit
Here is a great place to get replacement valve seals (cupseals) to fix valve leaks:
http://www.alamocitypb.com/MANUFACTPAGES/ACCESSPIX/oneseals.htmL

here's the page of dragun parts http://www.alamocitypb.com/MANUFACTPAGES/dragun.html


If you have a problem with a particular part, a replacement is available. Just post-up and someone will tell you which part is the best to get. I could make a list, but it would be very long.

Good luck!

[Black Dragun]

WHOAH! Wait a second! I just looked at the pic that you posted again. The gun in the pic doesnt have a LPC!!! :eek:
Black_Dragun- look at the pic in this auction. do you see the horizonal silver bar looking thing that is to the left of the guage on this gun?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Dragun-Paintball-gun_W0QQitemZ230073554802QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16048Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
does your gun have one of those, even if it looks different than the one on that gun?

No it doesn't have one of those... It has what appears to be just a threaded plug in there...I cleaned and oiled the gun last night but now when I screw the tank on it leaks gas out of the end of the barrell. What did I do wrong... My AR-15 is easier to work on than this thing...

[Black Dragun]

WHOAH! Wait a second! I just looked at the pic that you posted again. The gun in the pic doesnt have a LPC!!! :eek:
Black_Dragun- look at the pic in this auction. do you see the horizonal silver bar looking thing that is to the left of the guage on this gun?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Dragun-Paintball-gun_W0QQitemZ230073554802QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16048Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
does your gun have one of those, even if it looks different than the one on that gun?

Are the LPC's gun specific?

[DarkeWolf]

well, it doesnt have a Low Pressure Chamber then. But, at least the hole is plugged. (I'm wondering why they took it off tho). The LPC isnt a necessity, but it does help to stabilize the internal pressures from co2 a little better.
Did you cock the bolt, before you gassed it up? That can cause it to leak like that if you don't cock it first.

OH! I hope that you didnt lube this with gun oil, or wd-40??? Those are generally a penetrating oil, which can eat the rubber in your o-rings. You want to use a synthetic oil made for paintball. Or use a synthetic, non-penetrating grease like Dow 33 or equivelent. (DAMMIT!!! Forgot to mention that SOONER!)

It could also be your valve not being seated correctly, or your cupseal not making a firm seal.

Ok, well...since Altec is taking a while, I'm gonna post a link to the TES schematic. At least for this. It's a different gun from dragun, but for what I need it for right now, the parts are the same.
http://img288.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09schematic3zh.jpg
If cocking it first doesnt cure that problem, click that link ^

now, on the schematic, parts # 26, #37, and parts #'s 44 thru 49 are what you'd be dealing with as far as the valve, and the cupseal.
to get to the valve, you are going to need to take off the gripframe, and then have to take the internals out of the gun again, like when you cleaned/lubed it. that will mean taking out the bolt (#5), the striker (#12), striker bumper (#14), Mainspring #(15), guiderod (#16) and end cap/velocity adjuster (#17) (tho that last one will look different than what you've got...different gun).

Once you've got those out, You'll need to unscrew part number 37 and then pull the vertical adapter (v/a) (part #49) off. (thats the part where the lpc Should be sticking out of, and where your xpansion chamber is sticking down out of).

When you pull off the v/a , your valve spring (#48), cupseal star (#47), cupseal (#46), and valve pin (#45) MIGHT come out with it. That's ok, you'd have to take them out anyway. So take them out, if they dont come out with the V/A.
Inspect the cupseal for any kind of damage (scratches, chunks missing....it should all have SMOOTH surfaces). Also make sure that it is still threaded onto the valve pin FIRMLY, and doesnt wiggle at all, or freely pull loose from the pin.
If it does, or if it's damaged at all...there's the source of your problem, and you'll need to replace the cupseal. The one that Agitator linked to, will work fine. I actually suggest getting a couple of them as spares, anyway. since the cupseal is one of hte weakest links in the gun, and they do go bad sometimes.
If that star (#47) is missing, then that could also be part of the problem. the star is what lines up the cupseal properly. you can get replacement for it here he has it listed as "Cup Seal Guide" (You'll notice that Sundragon sells cupseals as well.) http://www.sundragonpps.com/paintball_spyder_repl_parts.html

Now if the cupseal is alright, try reseating the valve, since we've got it this far apart.
there should be a brass-looking standard screw on the belly of the body. Part number 26. That is the valve screw, and is what holds the valve in. unscrew it. (If it's missing, thats a problem. But sundragon also sells replacements for those ;) )
Once the valve screw is out, take something long and thin, and push the valve out from the back of the gun. In other words, go in from where the endcap was, and push it out in the direction that the VA came out.
the valve is part number 44.

Inspect the o-rings on the valve for any signs of damage. if they are, they'll need to be replaced. Now put a bit of oil on one of your barrel cleaning brushes for your ar-15 (If it's a 223, it should fit really well) and give it a few strokes thru body of the valve to clean and lube the pin pathways. Or just drop a couple of drops into the holes, and rub it around with whatever you have that will fit in there.

Now put it back together. when you're putting it back together, there's a couple of things to make sure of, with the valve. First, make sure that the hole that has the lip around it, is facing towards the back of the gun. ANd that the holes around the body of the valve are facing up and down, so that the valve screw will line up when you go to put that in.
Put the valve in first. push it in from the front, where the va came off the gun, and push it all the way back until it cant go further back. Insert and screw in the valve screw until it is flush with the body. And then give it another 1 and 1/2 turn, if it will go that far.
now mount the star and valve spring back on your cupseal, and slide all of that in, until the valve pin is seated in the valve, and the cupseal is resting against the body.
remount your v/a.
reinstall your bolt, striker, mainspring, guiderod, and end cap.
before you put the gripframe back on, take a look at the sear. Part # 31, but it may look a bit different. Make sure that the edges are flat, and sharp. If they arent you may need to sand them with some sandpaper, until they are.
then remount the trigger frame, and see if that took care of the problem. remember to cock it first.

[DarkeWolf]

lol oops, you posted while I was typing all that up. They shouldnt be proprietary. Anything for a spyder should fit, as far as the LPC goes. Like I said, they're not a necessity, but if you want one, you can find some of htem fairly cheap on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPYDER-LOW-PRESSURE-CHAMBER_W0QQitemZ190068290939QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10 554QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=low+pressure+chamber&btnG=Search+Froogle&output=html&lmode=online&sa=N&start=0
like I said, you'd want a spyder chamber, not the bob long or autococker. tho, the Piranha chambers MIGHT work, but I'm not sure.

[DarkeWolf]

damn, here I go double posting all over the place in here :(

Altec got his pic done, so I'll go ahead and post it, in case that we still need it later on.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/Mrjunior/DRAGUNBLOWUP.jpg

[Black Dragun]

Darkewolf and Altec, I really appreciate all your help. The gun seems to be functioning great now and today is the first actual field test... Once again THANKS!!! I'm sure we'll have more questions by the end of the day so I guess stay tuned for more...

[DarkeWolf]

No problem at all. You and your son go have some fun!
And welcome aboard to the Dragun family :)

I wont be home until late tonight, but I'll check to see if you need anything ;)

[XxAltecxX]

Ok, well...since Altec is taking a while, I'm gonna post a link to the TES schematic.


Bite me, it your fault for not riding me about! :P

Anyway, I do apologize for taking so long. My short term memory works like a motor without oil. :crazy:

Good to hear you got the marker working. Also good to see Wolf making long posts again, hes been lazy. :P

[MecTurtleCocker]

Why didn't you list the part in the top right? Nice piktar.

[DarkeWolf]

Why didn't you list the part in the top right? Nice piktar.
Part # 24 McDonald's cup

Ok, now it's listed. HAHAHAHAHA, I'm just kidding. Sorry...lack of sleep, I think I'm a bit slap-happy, lol.

Bite me, it your fault for not riding me about! :P

Anyway, I do apologize for taking so long. My short term memory works like a motor without oil. :crazy:

Good to hear you got the marker working. Also good to see Wolf making long posts again, hes been lazy. :P
LOL You know I dont like to bug peeps about stuff, especially when My memory is just as bad :P
Naw I wasnt talkin' bad on ya bro. ;) I just wanted to go ahead and help B_D get it shooting, so I used the tes schematic instead. But yeah, you did do a really good job on that pic ;)
You outta post that in your tutorial forums, for future reference!
hahahahaha my long posts...........

[XxAltecxX]

Part # 24 McDonald's cup

Ok, now it's listed. HAHAHAHAHA, I'm just kidding. Sorry...lack of sleep, I think I'm a bit slap-happy, lol.

Thinking juice. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/Mrjunior/hammer.gif

I need to figure out how to power a PB marker off Coca before I can add it to the list.

[DarkeWolf]

dude, if you could get that to work, all the employees at the fields wouldnt be doing any work. they'd all be hanging out by the fill station helping themselves to free sodas!

[MecTurtleCocker]

Provided you can diffuse the proper amount of carbon dioxide in a sugary medium such as coca cola, that would be easy...

[Black Dragun]

I have heard a bunch of different ways but which way do you turn the velocity to turn down or up?

[XxAltecxX]

I have heard a bunch of different ways but which way do you turn the velocity to turn down or up?

The normal way is to turn the velocity adjuster. Turning it out will lower it, and in will raise it. If it won't go high enough for the field limit, you need to get a Spyder spring kit, and change the main spring to a heavier one then the stock. If it won't go low enough, use a spring lighter then the stock.

If the velocity doesn't need to move much, then look into a shim cut. Thinner shim to lower the velocity, and thicker shim to raise the velocity.

Spring kit: http://a-1paintballstore.com/32-Degrees-Spyder-Spring-Kit-9-piece.html

Shim kit: http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/2512/

[Agitator]

If you experience jackhammering (rec*cking issues) when you use a stronger spring, it is because the spring is too strong for the gun to compress it. If this happens, you'll know, because the gun will sound like full automatic.

[XxAltecxX]

If you experience jackhammering (rec*cking issues) when you use a stronger spring, it is because the spring is too strong for the gun to compress it. If this happens, you'll know, because the gun will sound like full automatic.


Which is why spring changing is a last resort. I love shim kits, they always do the trick!

[DarkeWolf]

You dont have to get kits. You can go down to the local hardware store and pick up some nylon washers. those will work just as well ;)

[Agitator]

to shim the striker buffer or the mainspring? Or do you mean regulator shims?

I'm a tired tator.

[DarkeWolf]

With shimming, you can put it anywhere between the cap and the bumper. Anywhere in there will increase teh tension on the spring. However...its much better to put them on the guiderod, and then put the spring on the guiderod, then the bumper on the spring. that way, there's no chance of them falling out when you strip the gun for maintenace/work.

[Black Dragun]

Will any board fit my gun & where can I get one for it. Where can I get a handle or grips for my gun.

[DarkeWolf]

well, with the stock gripframe on it, your choices are very limited there. for the stock gripframe, the only choice you've really got for an upgrade board is the TES t-board from scenariodreams.
the regular board- http://www.scenariodreams.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=103

board with ultrachip http://www.scenariodreams.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=108

the differences in the two boards is the modes. the regular board just has straight out semi auto.
the t-chip has a lot of different modes. such as rt mode, which is where it fires once when you pull the trigger, and once when you let off the trigger. burst mode, which is 3 or 6 shots, full automatic, and several ramping modes.
ramping is sort of like a controlled form of full auto. To be brief, its set to where if you pull the trigger x number of times per second, teh gun shoots xx number of times per second, for as long as you keep pulling the trigger the x # of seconds.

as far as gripframes, you are pretty much stuck there. spyder and piranha gripframes will give you cocking issues. you could put a dragun TES or odyssey ToridX gripframe on it, but you would still be in the same situation as far as grips. And the situation for grips, is that there arent any made that will fit the draguns :(

[Agitator]

oh- I thought you meant striker buffers that were thicker. I know what you mean by guide rod shims. Yeah- they're great.


With shimming, you can put it anywhere between the cap and the bumper. Anywhere in there will increase teh tension on the spring. However...its much better to put them on the guiderod, and then put the spring on the guiderod, then the bumper on the spring. that way, there's no chance of them falling out when you strip the gun for maintenace/work.

[AutoMagClassic1]

if its parts you need i have parts.
my threads striped so ill give you a whole gun or just the lowers w/e you want pm me