---- Paintball Barrel test ---- Out to see what barrel is "The Best"

[MANN]

Alright so I am tired of always hearing that barrel X is better than Y. I have decided to try to test out most of the top barrels against each other to see if there is a difference, and try to determine what barrel is "The Best"
So far I have aquired ~ 30 different barrel kits/barrels. Ill include a list later, but here is a pic of some of them.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1590.jpg
The gun will be setup in a vice. It will be shot ~60 ft (I havent decided a firm distance and am open to suggestions)
The shots will hit a piece of paper ~ 36" X 24-30" Ideally the paintball will go through the paper without breaking, and hit a sheet which will catch unbroken paintballs for later practices (the paint will not be used twice). Each shot will be measured on an x y axis to the nearest 1/4".
Each barrel/insert will have ~ 20 shots of 5 different types of paint. The types of paint will be PMI Stinger, DXS Rec Sport, Xball Gold, Diablo Heat, and Reballs (the real ones), and RPS Marbs (A HUGE THANKS TO p_aint_fun on AO for donating 2 cases)
For each shot the velocity will be recorded with 2 chronographs, and a radar gun (the red chrono was calibrated within the last year, and I have tuning forks to tune the radar gun with) the yellow cheap chrono is just that. I want to see how far off of what I call correct it is. The marker will be reset to 280 fps with each barrel. The velocity will be adjusted in accordance to AGD specs.
The maximum sound level of each shot will also be recorded for each shot (just because im intersted to see what barrel is quieter than another.) The results for this will be the percent of noise reduction. A baseline for each barrel will be determined by dry firing.
I am also taking the internal diameter of each barrel/insert to also see how close of tolerances each companies hold their products to. The actual/specified diameters, and the weight of each barrel will be recorded. some of them are What little experience I have in manufacturing/process the percent error just would not fly.
all measurements will be recorded with calibrated equipment. All barrel dimensions/weights will measured with nist calibrated calipers/ scales
I know that paint is not perfectly spherical that is the reason that paintballs do not go straight. It will be very hard to determine if the barrel is causing the inaccuracy or if the paint is causing it (the majority will probally be the paint). I am going to do my best to get a range of paint therfore eliminating that problem.
I have seen barrel companies state that our barrel is better than theirs because here is our shot pattern and here is the competion's shot pattern; and ours is a tighter pattern therefore a more accurate barrel. For anyone that is looking to purchase a paintball barrel that is smart enough to research their purchase i would like to provide data/reason to purchase one barrel over another. I have no ties with any barrel company, and would consider this a blind test.
I know that probally over of 50% of players will still go get a 24" barrel thinking that it will be a sniper. This test is not for those players. At the least this will let me know personally which barrel is best for me. My personal oppinion is that the gun/barrel is alot less the problem as it is the person.
Another difference in different barrel kits is the tolerance levels that the company holds. If I buy a kit with X number of inserts that are a certain size I expect the inserts to be exactly what is listed on them. I dont want a kit that jumps around. If thats the case there is no point of owning a barrel kit we should all just buy a piece of .75" of pipe, and tape it to our guns.
/end sarcasim

[MANN]

Barrel actual diameters.
Given Diameters/ Actual Diameters/ Difference between given and actual
Stainless steel Freak inserts 0.682 0.6820 0.0000
~5" control bore 0.6840 0.6850 0.0010
0.687 0.6870 0.0000
0.689 0.6900 0.0010
0.691 0.6915 0.0005
0.693 0.6935 0.0005
0.695 0.6960 0.0010
0.697 0.6980 0.0010
0.697 0.6975 0.0005
Aluminum Freak inserts 0.679 0.6795 0.0005
~5" control bore 0.679 0.6800 0.0010
0.682 0.6835 0.0015
0.684 0.6850 0.0010
0.687 0.6895 0.0025
0.689 0.6915 0.0025
0.691 0.6915 0.0005
0.693 0.6965 0.0035
0.695 0.6965 0.0015
Fronts 10" Black Freak 0.7015 N/A
12" Black Freak 0.7025 N/A
14" Black Freak 0.7020 N/A
11" Purple AA 0.7035 N/A
16" Purple Freak 0.7030 N/A
---------------
Redz Pepperstick 0.687 0.6885 0.0015
~6.5" control bore 0.689 0.6890 0.0000
0.691 0.6915 0.0005
0.693 0.6920 0.0010
Fronts 14" Black Redz 0.7100 N/A
16" Black Redz 0.7100 N/A
---------------
Evil Pipe 0.683 0.6830 0.0000
~6" control bore 0.686 0.6855 0.0005
0.689 0.6890 0.0000
0.692 0.6925 0.0005
0.695 0.6950 0.0000
Fronts 14" Black Evil 0.7055 N/A
14" Black Evil 0.7065 N/A
---------------
Empire Revolver Aluminum inserts 0.684 0.6865 0.6860 0.0025
~4" control bore 0.688 0.6935 0.6900 0.0055
back of insert / front of insert 0.690 0.6920 0.6900 0.0020
0.692 0.6940 0.6935 0.0020
0.696 0.6985 0.6960 0.0025
Fronts 14" Black Empire 0.7050 N/A
---------------
BT Apex 10" one piece 0.7005 N/A
---------------
Empire 7 pc set 0.681 0.6845 0.0035
~6" control bore 0.684 0.6850 0.0010
All have tapered back 0.687 0.6895 0.0025
0.690 0.6915 0.0015
0.693 0.6930 0.0000
0.696 0.6965 0.0005
Fronts 14" Black Empire 0.7040 N/A
---------------
Mcdev Matchstik 0.685 0.6870 0.0020
~5.5" control bore 0.689 0.6905 0.0015
0.693 0.6955 0.0025
Fronts 12" Black Matchstik 0.6950 N/A
14" Black Matchstik 0.6950 N/A
---------------
CCM 0.681 0.6810 0.0000
~1.25 control bore 0.684 0.6850 0.0010
0.687 0.6875 0.0005
0.690 0.6915 0.0015
0.693 0.6940 0.0010
Fronts 14" CF CCM (tapered) 0.6960 - .7100 N/A
---------------
Stiffi Switch 0.685 0.6855 0.0005
~1.25" control bore 0.687 0.6885 0.0015
0.689 0.6910 0.0020
0.691 0.6915 0.0005
Fronts 12" CF Switch (tapered) 0.6950 - .7010 N/A
---------------
Hammerhead 0.688 0.6890 0.0010
~1.25 control bore 0.690 0.6910 0.0010
0.693 0.6935 0.0005
Front 14" Black Hammerhead N/A N/A
12" Black Hammerhead N/A N/A
---------------
J&J Edge Dust Black 0.682 0.6835 0.0015
~4" control bore 0.685 0.6860 0.0010
0.688 0.6890 0.0010
0.691 0.6910 0.0000
0.693 0.6940 0.0010
Front 10" Dust Black Edge 0.7090 N/A
12" Dust Black Edge 0.7090 N/A
14" Dust Black Edge 0.7060 N/A
---------------
Custom Products 5 piece 0.682 (tapered back) 0.6810 N/A
~5" control bore 0.685 0.6850 0.0000
0.689 0.6885 0.0005
0.693 0.6955 0.0025
0.696 0.6970 0.0010
Front 14" Red CP 0.7005 N/A
---------------
Powerlite Scepter (tapered insert) 0.684 0.6850 0.0010
~6" control bore 0.686 0.6865 0.0005
0.688 0.6870 0.0010
0.690 0.6910 0.0010
0.692 0.6940 0.0020
Front 14" Black PL 0.6990 N/A
---------------
Powerlite Scepter (revolver insert) 0.684 0.6850 0.0010
~6" control bore 0.686 0.6870 0.0010
0.688 0.6900 0.0020
0.690 0.6925 0.0025
0.692 0.6950 0.0030
Front 12" Black PL 0.7000 N/A
---------------
J&J Edge Gloss Black 0.685 0.6860 0.0010
~4" control bore 0.688 0.6900 0.0020
0.691 0.6920 0.0010
0.693 0.6945 0.0015
Front 12" Gloss Edge 0.7055 N/A
---------------
WGP Kaner 0.682 0.6830 0.0010
~6.5" control bore 0.684 0.6850 0.0010
0.687 0.6880 0.0010
0.689 0.6895 0.0005
0.691 0.6915 0.0005
12" Pweter Kaner 0.7005 N/A
14" Pweter Kaner 0.7030 N/A
16" Pweter Kaner 0.7005 N/A
---------------
Dye Ultralite White (?.689) 0.6925 N/A
~6" control bore Yellow (?.689) 0.6925 N/A
Red (?.685) 0.6895 N/A
0.692 Blue 0.6950 N/A
Fronts 12" dust black proto 0.7020 N/A
14" Blue UL 0.7010 N/A
14" dust black UL 0.7010 N/A
---------------
SM Race ~5.5" control bore 0.686 0.6860 0.0000
Front 14" blue Race 0.7015 N/A
---------------
Lucky Un1tec 14" bore 0.685 0.6850 0.0000
0.693 0.6930 0.0000
0.696 0.6960 0.0000
---------------
Dye Xcel 12" one piece 0.6910 N/A
---------------
Xmag stock 12" one piece 0.6920 N/A
---------------
WGP Trilogy stock 14" one piece 0.6890 N/A
---------------
Tear Drop 14" one piece 0.6890 N/A
---------------
Misc 11" one piece 0.6885 N/A
---------------
Stock RT Pro J&J Dust Black ~5.5" control bore 0.6935 N/A
Front 12" Dust Black ?? 0.7150 N/A

[Evil_Wayz]

That is quite an ambitious undertaking. Are you planning on selling some of them after this test? :) If so, PM me!

[MANN]

I will be selling them later on, but will probally forget to pm you. Please come to me after the testing. I have had probally 20 people already ask to buy some of the barrels.

[bvdave]

ut oh... your doin the test without a winforce barrel? duoh!

[oofox99]

Heck yeah man!!! That is kind of shocking to see all those thirsty barrels you have...I am definitely interested in one of the barrel kits...I'll pm you and wait after the test as well...good luck with the test!

[iridespyder]

Yeah, where's Sly and 007?

[MANN]

bvdave: I dont have a winforce. if you have a cocker threaded one I would love to borrow it, and will pay return shipping for any barrel that I use.

iridespyder: I have a sly on its way. ( I have 2 people that say they will let me borrow one.) I do not have a 007, and have really never even heard of it.

[GameOver]

wow this is like the best barrel review

[MANN]

wow this is like the best barrel review

That is what I am hoping for. :D

[bvdave]

sure pm me your address and ill send you one, what size you want 12" or 14"

if you cover shipping on the way there rather then back you can keep it if you want. (tho looking at your collection dunno how much use it be with all those kits lol)

[MANN]

if you cover shipping on the way there rather then back you can keep it if you want. (tho looking at your collection dunno how much use it be with all those kits lol)

pmd you. THANKS

[MecTurtleCocker]

I vote "Least useless 07er" :P

Thanks for attempting this! I would love to see the results, and if you need any monatary assistance, I might be able to help you out.

[JChan819]

^^^^^^
Agreed, yo.

Any of those Spyder threaded?!?!?!!? :-D

[bvdave]

when you do the test may I recommend multiple distances?

test say 35 and 70 feet. then you get a better overall idea for the barrels for range and closeup and a better overall test.

[Rogue852]

very cool. im interested to see the results.

[MANN]

I vote "Least useless 07er" :P

Thanks for attempting this! I would love to see the results, and if you need any monatary assistance, I might be able to help you out.

Thank you. I you wish to make a paint/barrel/$ donation please pm me. I am not doing this for money, but any help on paying for the 500.00 paint purchase last week would be appriciated. Those who make donations will be known.

[MANN]

when you do the test may I recommend multiple distances?

test say 35 and 70 feet. then you get a better overall idea for the barrels for range and closeup and a better overall test.

I have to somewhat disagree. If a barrel is good at 70 then it almost have to be accurate at 35, unless it has a curve ball effect which imo would make me not want to buy the barrel. I am tring to determine what is an all around good barrel. I figure most shots are made within 50-60 ft.

[bvdave]

I also like how your using both freak aluminum inserts and stainless steel :)

[MANN]

I also like how your using both freak aluminum inserts and stainless steel :)

Yeah. One of the things that got this started was that I had both kits, and 2 of the same guns. My wife always said that she couldnt shoot straight with her gun, and I always figured it was her, but when we switched guns in the middle of one game I was highly dissapointed. I could not shoot my way out of a wet paper bag. I put the same insert in both, and the paint was out of the same bag. I kept seeing that her gun would not preform. After taking the inserts to work and measuring them I was like WTF. They were no where near the same diameter. Then me and a few fellow engineers/engineering students got to talking, and thought of this test.

[Curly Fry]

Sweet mother of God

[bvdave]

when do you plan to start testing?

[MANN]

when do you plan to start testing?

Hopefully on april 7 that weekend. Im waiting on SM to send a barrel

[NS RecPaintball]

Pretty cool. Im eager to see how this thing turns out.

[Paintbaler28]

Me too

[di$TOrTed]

thats a lot of barrels

[bvdave]

well ill try and have the winforce sent by then just need address and stuff waiting on your pm :P

[MANN]

pmd you dave

Can I track the amount of air coming out of my barrel?
Alright I have an idea. I am wanting to see what kind of pressure the ball is actually seeing. The only way to do this would be to have a pressure gague where the ball sits. A detent would work perfectly. If I took the ball out of a stock agd detent, tapped it for a fitting, and hooked it up to a digital pressure reading device (which I have access to) this should work right?

The velocity of a marker has to be adjusted for different barrels. I am wanting to see if there is any relationship between accuracy, and the pressure exerted on a ball.

My xmag has dual detents on the vert breech so I could always just use one while leaving the other for a detent.

I know that this would all hinge upon the idea that the automag is a closed system. Ie that there is no air loss in the removable breech, behind the bolt (thru the body), etc. But in theory this would work right?

[Smart Partys]

it depends because having the pressure gauge in place of the detent might screw up accuracy. I would just chronograph each shot because pressure is directly related to velocity.

[eddyydde]

good luck with this, its a huge test, did u buy all the barrels or did some of ur friends donate them or something?

[MANN]

I have 2 detents. The detent should not affect accuracy at all. The pressure from the gun is not released untill the ball is past the detent. After talking/thinking some more tho I dont think this will work. The bolt will in theroy seal the inlet to the detent.

[MANN]

good luck with this, its a huge test, did u buy all the barrels or did some of ur friends donate them or something?

All of those are mine. I do have all of my friends cocker barrels too tho.

[reneirwolf878]

Wow, this should be pretty interesting...and extremely time consuming. Kudos to you for doing it.

[bvdave]

just make sure if you do the tests outsid eyou set up a streamer on a pole or something so you can ensure you only shoot when the wind is at absolute zero. dont wana give a barrel a bad rating cuz agust showed up.

put a streamer at your location. one at 20 feet one at 40 feet one at 60 feet etc that way you know your doing the test the best you possibly can with controlled factors.

[oofox99]

Indoor would probably be the best since it's a nuetral area.

[cool_b_63]

Pictures and videos of the testing will be great. Just very short clips.

Please note temperature at the time of testing also. Paintball sizes and trajectories are affected by temperatures.

Have a good time with all that testing!

[bvdave]

well I dunno about you but I dont have any warehouses laying around in my basement.. and no rooms with 60" depth.. but with all those barrels he does seem pretty rich so he just might :P

[MANN]

bvdave:
I am not rich. I promise. I make less than 17k a year. My wife allowed me to start a paintball buisness when we got marries (2 years ago almost), and every dime that I make I usually spend on equipment for myself or others. It sorta a way to pay for the hobby. She also likes it because she gets her own gear.
I believe that if you work hard when your young then you wont have to work when your old.


Back on subject.
The company I work for has a "lab", and I am sorta the lab manager/ I fix everything that everyone else breaks so Im pretty valuable, and can do what I want. I just measured it and its 80 X 22 (im still at work :( Ive been here since 530 this morning, and now its 10). It is also temp controled so I can keep it whatever I want.

cool_b_63:
I am goint to record most if not all of it. I am tring to find somewhere I can post it.

[di$TOrTed]

I have 2 detents. The detent should not affect accuracy at all. The pressure from the gun is not released untill the ball is past the detent. After talking/thinking some more tho I dont think this will work. The bolt will in theroy seal the inlet to the detent.

Yeah you're right. It won't work where the detent is, as there should be no pressure there as it is firing. You would need to drill a guage port into the barrel to read the pressure there.

btw what marker will you be using? I think it would be really cool if you could use an open bolt marker and a closed bolt marker to see if that affects accuracy at all...............

[MecTurtleCocker]

Erm, read Warpig in the past 3 years, distorted?

[MANN]

Erm, read Warpig in the past 3 years, distorted?

Actually no. Has someone done this already?

[bvdave]

they tested open bolt vs closed bolt.. but I dont like there test. first they used a stingray.. then they modified it to be closed bolt. I guess its hard to use 2 completely different markers and base it on the bolt but still.. a modified stingray?

[reneirwolf878]

they tested open bolt vs closed bolt.. but I dont like there test. first they used a stingray.. then they modified it to be closed bolt. I guess its hard to use 2 completely different markers and base it on the bolt but still.. a modified stingray?Especially since all you gotta do to make a cocker open bolt is basically cross a couple hoses.

[LimpBizko]

Holy crap

[MANN]

they tested open bolt vs closed bolt.. but I dont like there test. first they used a stingray.. then they modified it to be closed bolt. I guess its hard to use 2 completely different markers and base it on the bolt but still.. a modified stingray?

I read the open/closed test. I had the same though.

[bvdave]

so hey if you wanna do it with a open and a closed bolt I say go for it! the more stuff you can test the better ;)

[Vyce-Gripp]

My money's on the Ceramic.

-Gripp

[calaustria]

This is great. I would do this, but we don't even have that many barrels at the shop... Thanks a lot for doing this. Now maybe we won't have as many of those "vvh4t iz t3h be5t bahre1?" threads. When you finish this, I vote sticky.

Bvdave: If he used an open and closed bolt, he would use twice the paint. :(

[Frink98]

My money's on the Ceramic.

-Gripp

That's how you make your money back on all those barrels...make it interesting.

[di$TOrTed]

Erm, read Warpig in the past 3 years, distorted?

nope

i'm just saying, if he is doing all this testing anyway, why not get hands on a cocker too and do that

[HURLEY77]

This is great. I would do this, but we don't even have that many barrels at the shop... Thanks a lot for doing this. Now maybe we won't have as many of those "vvh4t iz t3h be5t bahre1?" threads. When you finish this, I vote sticky.

Bvdave: If he used an open and closed bolt, he would use twice the paint. :(

Sadly someone will still make a new thread before looking at stickies, but it will reduce the amounts :D

[MANN]

Here is a list of every barrel that is going to be used
Freak SS (9 different fronts)
Freak Alum
Hammerhead
Empire Revolver
Scepter
Scepter
Pipe
Empire 7 piece
Apex
Kaner
CCM
Stiffi
Custom Products
Redz Pepperstick
Dye UL .695 (proto front)
Dye UL .689 (back)
Dye UL .692 (blue front)
JJ Barrel kit
JJ Edge kit
Dye black dust
Dye UL .685 back
Un1tec (.685, .689, .693, .695)
Sanchez Machine SM1
Matchstik
Race barrel with 1 insert
Misc barrel unported
tear drop barrel
Xmag barrel
lucky un1tec blue/red
dye xcel
-Barrels that will hopefully arrive this week
lapco big shot
ACI Phat kit
Dye Boomstick
Titanium longbow
pipe front. Stiffi Black Mamba 16
lucky 15 (.685)
winforce barrel
EagleWorks
14” sly kit
16" sly kit
palmers 12" brass
If anyone wants to have their barrel/s tested I would be more than happy to do it. I will pay return shipping on any barrel that is sent to me. If anyone is interested in making any type of donation (paint or money) please PM me.

[Shadow21]

If I'm not mistaken, and no one else has posted this, this experiment is quite useless. Why? Because each barrel will have different accuracy with different paints. Testing all of those barrels with only 1 or 2 different types of paint won't give the answer to which barrel is the best, but only which barrels are best to use with the specific paint that MANN is using to test with.

Sorry to rain down on your experiment MANN, but it's fact.

[MANN]

If I'm not mistaken, and no one else has posted this, this experiment is quite useless. Why? Because each barrel will have different accuracy with different paints. Testing all of those barrels with only 1 or 2 different types of paint won't give the answer to which barrel is the best, but only which barrels are best to use with the specific paint that MANN is using to test with.

Sorry to rain down on your experiment MANN, but it's fact.

lol. You are not the first to believe that this is useless, and probally wont be the last.

We are using 6 types of paint (and are tring to get more), and reballs (the real ones). So far we will be using marbs, heat, stingers, recsport, xball gold, monsterballs. I believe that that should provide sufficient data for each barrel.

Not only are we just checking the accuracy of each barrel we are also providing the percent of muffeling, the actual diameters vs the given diameters, the actual wieght, and how each barrel peforms after it has a break in the barrel.

Have you ever considered that paintball in general is useless. I mean come on; what is the point? Going outside, and basicly throwing pennies at each other. If I/others would spend the same amount of time and effort on school as I do paintball wouldn't Americia be better off? Heck there are 300,000 members on PBN. Assuming that all of them donated the money they put toward paintball to charity. We could save every starving child.

I will agree that probally a huge part of paintball is won with skill other than equipment, but I also have to believe that there is some science to 300.00 barrel kits. What makes one superior to another? Why not just use PVC pipe? Why not carbon steel? Why not 7075 alum? Why carbon fiber? etc, etc.

[bobalis]

So when will the test begin?

[MANN]

April 7th. More than likely very very early. I would like to do all the test in one day.

[Shadow21]

lol. You are not the first to believe that this is useless, and probally wont be the last.

We are using 6 types of paint (and are tring to get more), and reballs (the real ones). So far we will be using marbs, heat, stingers, recsport, xball gold, monsterballs. I believe that that should provide sufficient data for each barrel.

Have you ever considered that paintball in general is useless. I mean come on; what is the point? Going outside, and basicly throwing pennies at each other. If I/others would spend the same amount of time and effort on school as I do paintball wouldn't Americia be better off? Heck there are 300,000 members on PBN. Assuming that all of them donated the money they put toward paintball to charity. We could save every starving child.

I will agree that probally a huge part of paintball is won with skill other than equipment, but I also have to believe that there is some science to 300.00 barrel kits. What makes one superior to another? Why not just use PVC pipe? Why not carbon steel? Why not 7075 alum? Why carbon fiber? etc, etc.

I never said this experiment in general is useless, nor did I say paintball in general is useless. I said this experiment would be useless if you had only tried 1 or 2 types of paint, such as I saw on the first or second page. With the knowledge of you using several types of paint now, the experiment is no longer useless.

[hurleyhonda22]

would you happen to be selling any of them

[Shadow21]

I will be selling them later on, but will probally forget to pm you. Please come to me after the testing. I have had probally 20 people already ask to buy some of the barrels. would you happen to be selling any of them
Would you happen to know how to read?

[bvdave]

the test will give a very good general idea. remember not all barrels are made equal one freak may shoot great while another terrible but we will still get a nicve general idea here which is cool :)

[Omniscient]

dude, you get major props for this.

Are you using some kind of gun mount? i apologize if you mentioned this but I wouldn't want your experiment to be inaccurate because the gun moves.

I'm very eager to see how this comes out.

[bvdave]

yea he said he was using a vice

[PTE. O'Hearn]

This is amazing, I wish you luck MANN, your a true hero. This is a Sticky for sure.

[thekid]

This is amazing, I wish you luck MANN, your a true hero. This is a Sticky for sure.

once the results are in ;).

Anyways good luck and i can't wait to see the results... p.s. be sure to take pictures

[bvdave]

ive always wanted to do this.. I have lots of barrels but not that many lol

[Vyce-Gripp]

Hey MANN, I don't see a J&J Ceramic on your list! Surely you aren't planning on excluding one of the most cost-effective and accurate barrels from your test?
Because if you do, I will forever claim that a J&J Ceramic "would have dominated everything else, if it had only been tested." :D

-Gripp

[MANN]

Hey MANN, I don't see a J&J Ceramic on your list! Surely you aren't planning on excluding one of the most cost-effective and accurate barrels from your test?
Because if you do, I will forever claim that a J&J Ceramic "would have dominated everything else, if it had only been tested." :D

-Gripp

I do not believe I have one. I have searched high and low, and have yet to find one. They are nice barrels. I have one on my backup twistlock mags. If you can find one that can be here by friday id love to pick one up.

LOL. I am sure that I will recieve more than one claim about "my barrel is better than all of those"

[bvdave]

the winforce I sent you wont show till after friday, does that mean you cant test it with the rest after?

[frasermckean]

Where are you going to post the results?

[MANN]

dave: let me see when it gets here. if it gets here sat i can pobally still do it if my wife will play gofer

frasermckean: We are working on developing a website. We are tring to find funds to run the website. There has been talk that we might test other paintball related items also.

[MANN]

I finished the gun table today. Took a few shots and everything seems solid. Hooked up the electronic manometer, and was able to get readings. They were not consistant, but were registering. I used reballs and .696 barrel so that could have been the reason. the bore sight works wonderfully, and is a tight fit with # 9&10 orings installed. Im going to do more test tonight/make the target stand/paintball catcher. Test will be preformed saturday.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/th_IMG_1602.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1602.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/th_IMG_1601.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1601.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/th_IMG_1600.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1600.jpg)

[boing7472]

with all those shots u sure are going to go through alot of air. anyway what barrel do you think personaly will be the best. ive got my money on the edge since i just bought one =)

[MANN]

I am hoping that my 3 scuba tanks can keep up. If not we can always make a run to fill them.

I have only used 3-4 of the barrels before so I dont know.

[ikey]

well i was happy to see on that list the edge barrels had some of the best toerances....i was surprised by evil though, they were one of teh best. i was also surprised that newer barrels that are just coming out like teh revolver had some changes, i would expect better tolerances from newer barrels. WGP barrels had great tolerances as well, which i find funny because they arent very popular barrels and had much better tolerances than most barrels that are considered better.

you could add sly (maybe you do and i just didnt see it)

i would not be surprised if the edge is one of teh best, i used to own one on my impulse, and that old setup of mine was still the most accurate gun ive ever shot, and tied with a 1991 classic mag with a smart parts old style twist lock all american

[DirtyBirdy51]

i love MANN.

[bvdave]

well thanks for telling us you love men but this thread is about barrels :P

[HURLEY77]

Would you happen to know how to read?
Don't make fun of HurleyHonda, he has a kool name, and besides... some of us dont have the time to read the whole thread :blah:

[MANN]

I thought I posted this yesterday, but i guess not. Here is v5
I had to rebuild the marker table to insure that there is no recoil with the barrel/gun. The kapp drop that was previously used allowed the barrel to move a little. Here is version 5. versions 2,3,4 were all improvements, but still allowed the gun to viberate a little.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/th_IMG_1604.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1604.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/th_IMG_1603.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/IMG_1603.jpg)

[di$TOrTed]

looks nice mann, i can't wait to see the results

[SoCalMike]

All I can say is Wow............ just in time I think I will put off my new barrel buy until you get this done :) Thanks Mann you ROCK!!!!!

[MANN]

mike. You may have to wait a week or two. It will take time to crunch/input all the data, and then QA/QC it.

[Lopez17]

Very nice endeavor. My only concern would be that the data your collecting might be skewed as it doesn't reflect a high enough sampling. There's a higher probability that you may see situations where paint/air could cause a greater than normal number of outliers affecting what would be a reasonable expectation for your distribution curve.

Regardless, I'm interested to see the results.

[bvdave]

Hey I just found the winforce and realised I didnt have it sent with the rest of my packages. since it wont arrive by sat I guess its prolly best if I dont send it unless you think you can test the barrel next week still

[MANN]

Alright guys I actually got to start the test today. Wow is there more involved then I ever imagined. To start things off setup took quit a while. We wanted to make sure we recorded every piece of data where everything was located so that if we needed to setup again we would know.
Here is what we did so far:
-We took a 25 ball sample of each case of paint to have weighed.
-We determined that the lenght of the barrel makes NO difference. We used Xball Gold (which I have to say is an awesome brand of paint) and shot it throught the same insert, and every different lenght of freak tips. There was no difference what so ever. The spread looked very similar
-We did a sound profile for each freak length when using marbilizer paint. It showed a little difference, but not much.
-We completely tested every bore in the freak system with a 14" front. We used 6 types of paint and reballs (reballs were only used untill .684iirc)
The paint used was as mentioned before Xball gold, marballizers, rec sport, heat, stingers, and some Monster Balls that has been sitting in my basement since December(and on Walmart's shelf for god only knows how long prior to that). This stuff has more dimples than a golf ball. This is I didnt order/pick up paint in time, and am having to use what I find on the field quality.
The testing today was very very long. It is taking us ~ an hour per bore to test 6 paints and reballs. Tomorrow we are going to narrow it down to 4 types of balls. There are a couple of reasons for this. Reballs are way too small to shoot straight out of anything bigger than a .682. Diablo Heat is also giving us alot of problems with its sizing. It is smaller than the reballs. I almost feel like we just got a horrible batch of it. I would guess that if/when I mic it it will be ~.66ish. It was consistantly off the wall inaccurate... The velocities were a crap shoot, and would usually be +- 75 fps than the previous/next type of paint with the same bore. The stingers were very similar to both the marbs, and rec sport so we feel that the other two will give general representation of it. Again we hate to eliminate any extra data we have, but we simply dont have time.
Today I counted, and we have 150 different bores (ie a sly kit has 5 bores, and a 1 piece barrel has 1 bore). While we are going to try our best to shoot through all it just isnt going to happen. We will probally pick ~ 3 bores from each kit to test 4 types of paint with. We are going to have more people participate tomorrow, and we will not have the setup time that we had today. I will try to start early, but started at 5:00 yesterday (its now 12:30 here). Im going to head to bead, and will post updates throughout the day tomorrow. If push comes to shove we will do a few test next saturday, but no promises. I have a Great Pyrenees that is expecting puppies in 1-2 weeks, and that takes priority.
Here is a few photos that were taken today before/during/after the test. We also recorded ~ 2hr of footage (2 hrs of me shooting a paintball gun. on/off of course).
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0771.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0771.jpg)
"cleaning barrel station"
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0770.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0770.jpg)
The gun setup
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0768.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0768.jpg)
Evan and my wife Ashley. You can see my back half in the background
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0764.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0764.jpg)
DJ pretending to looking important
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0763.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0763.jpg)
Brandon transfering some of these pictures on the pc
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0757.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0757.jpg)
Barrel table 2
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0756.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0756.jpg)
Barrel table 1
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_100_0194.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/100_0194.jpg)
Me (Josh/Mann) seting up the marker
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_100_0193.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/100_0193.jpg)
What we are shooting at
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_100_0190.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/100_0190.jpg)
What I see when shooting

[bvdave]

is it possibel for clips of fottage and results to be posted online as it comes? that would be really cool :)

[MANN]

is it possibel for clips of fottage and results to be posted online as it comes? that would be really cool :)

If I knew how I would just setup a web cam. Unfortunetly I am a Mech Eng. student not Elec/Computer. I only know how to use Microsoft suite. Evan is an EE student Ill ask him.

[Lopez17]

I think the man has enough to do without worrying about a live or semi-live webcam feed. :P I'd also speculate that your barrels are close enough in length where you're not going to see velocity differences. Try a 10 then an 18 on a kit and I bet you see issues. Very nice set up though. I'm impressed with the diligence you're putting into this.

[MANN]

I think the man has enough to do without worrying about a live or semi-live webcam feed. :P I'd also speculate that your barrels are close enough in length where you're not going to see velocity differences. Try a 10 then an 18 on a kit and I bet you see issues. Very nice set up though. I'm impressed with the diligence you're putting into this.

I am having to adjust the velocity to get ~ 280 from the longer fronts, however the accuracy/shot pattern is probally going to look the same.

I was highly impressed yesterday when shooting reballs with my .679 freak insert. My vel was right on top of each other. like 280 279 280 278 281 etc etc. Both chronos are also right on top of each other. Well back to testing/setup.

[Superandy12]

I am having to adjust the velocity to get ~ 280 from the longer fronts, however the accuracy/shot pattern is probally going to look the same.

I was highly impressed yesterday when shooting reballs with my .679 freak insert. My vel was right on top of each other. like 280 279 280 278 281 etc etc. Both chronos are also right on top of each other. Well back to testing/setup.


makes me want a kit, one bore size works has been working for mebut isnt too much fun. (.689)

and after your test I can see if i should get backs for my matchstick or a freak back for my All American.

[bvdave]

I wasnt thinking live I was just thinking downloadble after teh fact :P

[MANN]

just finished the 8th dvd (now 4hr long.) Im exhausted, but hope to put in another long day tomorrow. 32 bore sizes down. 63 to go. (I think)

[MANN]

The test is not over. Not even close. We will have to continue next weekend.
Alright here is what has happend so far, and the next steps that we are going to do. Please note that sometimes I just copy and paste from other forums so sometimes I act like I am repling to someone, and you may have no idea what I am talking about
I sorta forgot about Easter this weekend, and had to quit early to do the family thing (didnt bother me tho we worked from 5am-1am friday, 8am-11pm saturday, and 6am-4pm today sunday) This testing process is very time consuming, and I hope that it is worth it at the end.
Some of the reasons that we are having problems is that we are shooting 100 balls through each bore of each kit (4 types of balls). We change targets after every 25 balls, and check where the barrel is aimed with the bore sight at the begining and end of each type of ball. We are marking where each individual ball is hitting the target so that we can compare the velocities with the shots. This has been key as some of the "wild ball" shots have been velocity spikes that were probally caused by less than spherical paintballs.
We have shot reballs at the beginning of each day thru .679 insert, and our velocity on the xmag only deviates ~+- 5bps. This should indicate that the gun is doing fairly good.
Just off the top of my head we have tested the following kits: sly, stiffi, ccm (all cf), kaner, empire 7pc kit, freak ss (with all fronts), pps brass, matchstik. I know we did more, but am kinda blank now.
At the start (day1) we were doing almost 200 balls per bore, but had to lower it due to time restraints.
So far I have made a few observations, but please keep in mind these are not backed by data (yet) This is just from what I have seen sitting behind the marker
PPS brass-scale 1-10 I would give it a 7. It shot many diff bore paints, and shoots all equally. It is not by any means as accurate as some barrel kits, but defiently an all around good single bore.
Hammerhead- ummmm. ahhhh. welllll. hmmmm. I havent seen anything to make me think I am going to keep it yet. It does seem to be consistant with every bore regardless of paint (ie you really dont have to match paint to bore), but not nearly as consistant as the pps.
Carbon fiber kits- There was not a huge difference in them. (not really suprising) I am sure the data will give a better understanding of this later.
freak ss, matchstik, empire 7pc - all seem decent, but none have really stood out to be superior to any other
kaner- I didnt finish this one completely. We kept having breaks. I got a little frustrated with cleaning out the barrel every few shots, and decided to call it a day before loosing my mind.
I have had a few request to list a paypal for donations so here it is. Joshallis@bellsouth.net . Any/all donations are appriciated. I will provide data regardless of recieving any money, but anything to lessen the 85.00 that we spent on paper targets alone this weekend would help.
Here are some pics of some of the progress.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_IMG_1628.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/IMG_1628.jpg)
Some pics of the first type of targets. (we went thru 3 150' rolls of brown paper, and then switch to pre cut graph paper. Man do I wish I knew of it earlier)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_IMG_1639.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/IMG_1639.jpg)
Pics of the second paper, and my device that replaced us having to use a staple gun. We had at least 10lb of staples on the "target holder" before I thought of this.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_IMG_1636.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/IMG_1636.jpg)
These are my anti loss pod devices. Basicly some type of industrial enamel spraypaint that I put on all my pods/loaner tanks so that I can easily spot them on the field. It withistands being shot, and works great.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_IMG_1618.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/IMG_1618.jpg)
Pics of us sorting used paint. Nick is on the right, and Brandon and Evan are on the left.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_IMG_1613.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/IMG_1613.jpg)
Me waiting on the target to be setup.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_DSCN0771.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/DSCN0771.jpg)
Finished table. (ie barrels/bores that have been already done)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/th_100_0195.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/barrel%20test/100_0195.jpg)
My paintball catching device. We recovered quite a few paintballs, but sorting/cleaning sucked bad.
Edit:
We will be finishing the kits next weekend, and also doing a shoot thru test. This being where we will break 2 paintballs inside the barrel, shoot 5 shots to clean out the bore, and then record the rest of the shots.
Edit 2: Just fyi. The paint that we are currently using is xball gold, marballizer, rec sport, and what I call the christmas crud. It is monsterballs that I got around christmas from walmart, and have had sitting in my basement eversince. (ended up getting better paint at the time) This stuff looks like eggs, and has more dimples than a golf ball. It has been awesome watching it shoot, and has imo seperated the good and bad barrels.

[boing7472]

this is so awsome, may piant of choice for price and performance is rec sport, and i ahve an edge, now i get to see how the barrel compares to other thats nearly double its price

[jeep_brute]

Great project, when can we hope to see some results!

[monkey2109]

when are you planning on finishing the rest of the tests?

[spyderpilot642]

The test is not over. Not even close. We will have to continue next weekend.

[MANN]

Sorry I havent updated this lately. The test is over, and we are working on the results as i type. We will be done by june 1.

-Josh

[pballin4life77]

im waitin for this. U should kinda group them into price range. Because how do u put a stiffi switch verse a proto 1 piece barrel

[thekid]

om spyderpilot its been well over a week, in fact its been almost a month... anyways can't wait to see the results.

[fuzzyllama]

Hey MANN this is truely incredible and inspiring. Good luck with this and i hope everything is doing well. Now we can see whats the best of all (but then again wouldnt you have to use multiple types of the same barrel? DIfferent barrels of the same type [like 4 diff sets of of each barrel] might have deviations from what is actually told, but oh well that would be way too much work/money).

edit:
I just realized, this might be the end of all review threads for those types of barrels. If this was done for all types of paintball equipment, it might be the end of pbreview!!! :eek: Looks like its time for me to send in the KGB to "take care of some business" and save the glorious pbreview :dodgy::dodgy::dodgy::dodgy:

[Shadow21]

im waitin for this. U should kinda group them into price range. Because how do u put a stiffi switch verse a proto 1 piece barrel
Bad idea. The idea of this project is to find the best barrel ever made, for any price. Putting them into price groups wouldn't tell much because it's not comparing to other barrels outside the specific price. - Who knows, a cheaper barrel might be better w/ the tested paint.

[kilxpj]

I bought a J&J performance Edge elite kit based off his accuracy report on Pbnation and let me tell you this kit shoots better than most 150$ and higher end kits.. and it was only 101$ with blue Anodized tips wooT! thanks for the info MANN

[BloodLustDE]

wait, so the results are up on pbnation but not here?

[danny1911]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2088833&page=28 "potential results" pg 28

[MANN]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2218018

Here is part/alot of the data. It is not complete, but I am working on it. I am not going to post this on every forum yet as I dont want to have to edit all of them. (Please note this is on over 20 different forums).

Thanks

[Andrei_Shubin]

wow nice mesurements your really into thhis man!