barrels

[a5domination]

what is the best barrel for under $100 for A-5: accuracy

[MisterMister]

The PPS (Palmer Pursuit Shop) Brass barrel:

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/t409410/

[Corrupted355]

The PPS (Palmer Pursuit Shop) Brass barrel:

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/t409410/

x2

[-Viper-]

Why would you want a barrel that is made out of a soft metal, prone to corrosion, and whatever else....it looks dumb.
I got my Freak barrel for $60 with one insert, and then from there later on you would only have to buy an insert for the type of paint you want to use. I only have 3 inserts. A .693 (stock), .691 (ultimate chronic), and .683 (spank). I really only need those. Just get the barrel without the kit and get what you need from then on. It is the most customizable barrel, pretty much with alternate insets, fronts, and threads, along with adapters. But do what you want, just giving you an otpion...

[-Viper-]

O I just read the thing you did on the PPS barrel....its sounds nice and is more of an option but I still would not consider it unless I saw the performance myself...

[Corrupted355]

Why would you want a barrel that is made out of a soft metal, prone to corrosion, and whatever else....it looks dumb.


Just answering your question here. You obviously have never shot one. That soft metal provides one of the lowest coefficients of friction on a gelatin shell you can find. Also, it's elliptically honed, which means that its narrower at the breech and the muzzle than it is in the center. This allows for the paintball to distort under air pressure. As a result, this thing can can shoot any kind of paint, and shoot it accurately. And as for corrosion, if you put it in a plastic bag between games, you really don't have to worry about it. Besides, there's always Brasso.

[rusharp2]

I went with the All American with a 14" front. I think it was 30 for the back and 25ish for the front. I really like it compared to stock, for a decent price. I usually play at a FPO place so the a kit was not that important back then. The all american was a fair priced entry to a good barrel. If you can afford a kit then go that route. You can always pick a a Freak Jr and add the inserts as you go. My local shop has them for about $10 each.

I personally will keep the All-American on my A-5, but I did buy a Evil pipe kit for my Ion.

[a5domination]

what about the J&J full tilt ceramic

[MisterMister]

Why would you want a barrel that is made out of a soft metal, prone to corrosion, and whatever else....it looks dumb.
I got my Freak barrel for $60 with one insert, and then from there later on you would only have to buy an insert for the type of paint you want to use. I only have 3 inserts. A .693 (stock), .691 (ultimate chronic), and .683 (spank). I really only need those. Just get the barrel without the kit and get what you need from then on. It is the most customizable barrel, pretty much with alternate insets, fronts, and threads, along with adapters. But do what you want, just giving you an otpion...

You have no idea how retarded that sounded.

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. This metal is softer then some, yes, but unless you plan on using it to swing at concrete piñatas its not going to matter. I owned mine for over a year and didn’t have a single ding, dent or even scratch on it. And this was over 16+ months of hard use (used 3-4 times a month in scenario, mil-sim, and woodsball games. In fact I even dropped it a few times, barrel first WHILE ON MY MARKER).

Prone to corrosion? I take it you aren’t a metallurgist. Over my 16 month period I never once did anything to it other then rinse it in warm water after playing with it. No polishing, scrubbing, applying different products, etc. not ONE IOTA OF COROSION. And this is after playing in rain, snow, and even near the beach (salt).

As far as it looking "dumb"...

A) That’s YOUR opinion and holds absolutely NO relevance to this discussion what so ever.

B) You obviously have never seen one in person, so even your opinion is in question.

C) I got more complements regarding this barrel then I ever did with my Stiffi CF barrel, GTA Flatline, or Dye UL.

Honestly, it’s a frigging straight, black 12” barrel (the version I got), which perfectly matched the black finish on my A-5, which also had a mirror honed brass ring at its tip. Its classic. Its simple, and it looks frigging COOL. A thought shared by multiple strangers, so that’s not just MY opinion.

So... for $55, I had a barrel which shot as many different sizes of paint as your WHOLE BARREL KIT (and then some!), with the up most accuracy. You can't beat that for the money. Not by a long shot.

For the love of god, either try it before judging or keep the uneducated opinions to your self. It’s not helping anyone.

[a5domination]

is the brass barrel more accurate than the flatline and does it have as much range

[a5domination]

on the brass barrel, is the vented or non vented better

[JChan819]

No need to post twice, just hit the edit button.

No barrel will shoot as far as the Flatline or the Apex. They put spin on the ball.

I'd rather recommend a J&J Edge ELITE kit. Less than $100. But the PPS barrel's have been done-up by MisterMister.

[a5domination]

which barrel is most accurate: J&J Edge elite kit, flatline, apex, J&J full tilt, and PPS brass. which is the best barrel.

[Corrupted355]

is the brass barrel more accurate than the flatline and does it have as much range

It is more accurate by miles, but it does not have the same range. Only one other barrel can reach the same distance, and that's the Apex. However, you can put the Apex tip on the Brass, and it'll shoot farther than the Flatty with better accuracy. Plus there's the curving, dive bombing, and adjustable trajectory of the Apex. This is what I use, and I love it.

on the brass barrel, is the vented or non vented better


You can get either. You can also get it Nickel plated or black powder coated (outside only). Mine's unported and black. The ported version will make it a little quieter, but you're firing an A-5, which is a loud marker, so it's not like you're going to sneak up on anyone. You might as well scare them with a volley uf unrelenting fire from an unported barrel. Here are some of the Brass options. The one on the bottom allows you to select what options you want.

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/index.php/cPath/60_62

[a5domination]

do you have to buy a special apex to put on the brass

[MisterMister]

The PPS brass barrel is as accurate as any PROPERLY PAINT TO BARREL MATCHED, high end unit. This includes stuff like the Dye Ultra-Lite, and Freak barrel kits. The deal with the PPS Brass is that it does this without needing to switch inserts. It’s a SINGLE barrel which shoots like a complete barrel kit. The way you get an ACURATE barrel is by getting a proper paint to barrel match. This is why kits are so accurate. And this is why the PPS Brass is so accurate.

The Flatline is ONLY good for long distance. It’s below average in the accuracy department. It’s not even straight; the barrel is CURVED to add spin to the ball.

That being said you can add an APEX to the PPS Brass barrel! This way you can set it to shoot straight and have the best accuracy and you can still make it shoot far just like the Flatline depending on how you set the APEX tip. It’s just an add-on to existing barrels which have at least 2" of unported tip at the end of the barrel.

As for porting. It does NOTHING for performance it ONLY makes the barrel quieter when you shoot. It won’t do ANYTHING for accuracy. So if you don’t care how loud your gun is, save your money and get the UNPORTED.

[Corrupted355]

which barrel is most accurate: J&J Edge elite kit, flatline, apex, J&J full tilt, and PPS brass. which is the best barrel.

Dude, we can't tell you what the "best" barrel is. You're gonna have to do some research. Check the reviews of those barrels. Read them. Those are first hand testimonials and some of the best info you can get on the web.

[JChan819]

PPS sells an Apex adapter.

As for best accuracy, that's on you to find out, bro, as Corrupted said.

[sanky]

site inc stffi $98

[a5domination]

corrupted355, i also have a WAS E-grip on my A-5. is the JCS duel trigger a good trigger.

[Corrupted355]

yes. I recommend it highly. Just read the instructions when you're adjusting it. Allow for about a half hour to do that.

[JChan819]

I wouldn't recommend the St!ffi just yet. It's just a bit more complicated to newer players, IMO.

[^Andrew^]

I like hammerhead barrels. There's a lot of smack talk about them, saying they're a gimmick and all. But I think they're vary good. They're no more accurate then a high end barrel, but they'll out shoot a high end with bad paint and bust less paint because of the rifling. Lapco's Snapshots are pretty good also, you can get them for about $65 from county sports. I've heard good thing about the palmer barrels too, and plan on getting one after I start my A-5 project.

[Corrupted355]

The Hammerheads are VERY accurate. A good friend of mine has one, and I was able to borrow it. I was pretty amazed at how well it did, even with field paint. I was getting 1-2 foot groupings at about 70-80 feet pretty consistently.

[MisterMister]

FYI, "rifiling" does NOTHING for paintball applications. Also Hammerhead barrels are even heavier then the PPS brass ones.

[Corrupted355]

that may be, but whatever it is that the Hammerhead does, it works

[TheSpy11]

is the JCS duel trigger a good trigger.

I'll put it simply, yes. The review section will give you some good opinions.

[koo]

What about flatline?

[TheSpy11]

98 version - not good
A-5 version - decent
Apex - greater than both

[JChan819]

^ QFT. ^

Meaning, yes, what Spy said. Flatline's ok, but the Apex is better.

[Evil_Wayz]

^ QFT. ^

Meaning, yes, what Spy said. Flatline's ok, but the Apex is better.

Ditto. Whats QFT?

[JChan819]

"Quote for the truth".

[MisterMister]

98 version - not good
A-5 version - decent
Apex - greater than both

ACTUALLY, the 98 version is BETTER then the A-5 version. It has a LOT more area under the curve giving it better backspin characteristics and more range while being more accurate to boot. In fact, the UMS (http://www.undergroundmodshop.com/) sells adapted 98 Flatline units for the A-5. They are expensive (50 bucks more then an A-5 Flatline) but they have been proven to be the best Flatlines available.


Modified 98C/A-5 Flatline:
http://www.undergroundmodshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=39


As for the Flatline VS APEX. The Flatline is better as far as distance is concerned. HOWEVER the APEX holds a few advantages over the Flatline because it’s adjustable. You can set the ball to drop down on people behind bunkers, curve around trees (left or right), get long distance, or simply shoot straight) bypassing the whole unit. That puts it a head above the Flatline due to versatility.

Anyway, the extra distance is nice, but its no where near accurate at the extended ranged afforded by these products. That means you will either need to be lucky or put out a LOT of rounds in order to hit anything beyond the range afforded by ANY barrel. Because of this I HIGHLY suggest you get the PPS Brass barrel. If you need that range though, I then also suggest that you get either a second barrel (Again a PPS is the best option here) or just get a PPS with the APEX adapter. That will give you the best of both worlds and is the ultimate option here.

FYI the Flatline is by FAR the loudest barrel EVER. The AS-5 is loud in it's own right. But add a Flatline and its a CANNON. I mean it will hurt your hears loud if its pointed in your direction at a close distance! So if you are considering a Flatline and are balking at an unported PPS brass because its louder then the ported version, you need to rethink some things. The Unported PPS brass is more then HALF as noisy as a Flatline.

You sure Mister? The Apex from what I've heard goes near 400ft. on the highest setting. But I know, it most likely will not break or already have curved off. That's just what I heard, bro.

And Evil, it's gone now. :-D I had it till about mid-Dec. I want it back, though. I keep picturing you as that guy in the shemagh. :-D Hahahah.

Very sure...

...& there is NO way in HELL that ANY barrel is going to get a paintball to fly 400' at or under 300FPS. I dont even think BT's highly biased advertisments claim this.

[Evil_Wayz]

"Quote for the truth".

Righteous.

Btw, saw your pic on the Mohawk thread. You look exactly how I pictured you in my head, but the 'hawk through me for a loop. :)

[JChan819]

You sure Mister? The Apex from what I've heard goes near 400ft. on the highest setting. But I know, it most likely will not break or already have curved off. That's just what I heard, bro.

And Evil, it's gone now. :-D I had it till about mid-Dec. I want it back, though. I keep picturing you as that guy in the shemagh. :-D Hahahah.

[MisterMister]

BTW, if you are going to buy a Flatline, thinking of buying a Flatline, or already OWN a Flatline, you NEED to read this:

http://www.a5og.net/flatline-barrel-system/81-full-guide-flatline-barrel.html

This is a VERY detailed FAQ on how to properly use your Flatline barrel and how to tune your A-5 to properly take advantage of the Flatline (yes this is THAT important!).

On another note, it also shows you how much of a PITA it is to get the Flatline to work properly.

[MisterMister]

You sure Mister? The Apex from what I've heard goes near 400ft. on the highest setting. But I know, it most likely will not break or already have curved off. That's just what I heard, bro.

And Evil, it's gone now. :-D I had it till about mid-Dec. I want it back, though. I keep picturing you as that guy in the shemagh. :-D Hahahah.

Yes, I am sure...

Also there is no way in hell ANY barrel is going to get a paintball to fly anywhere close to 400'. Not at or under 300FPS (or anywhere close to that velocity).

Not even BT's very biased ads claim this distance.

Honestly, the Flatline shoots ~250' and it offers 10x the curved area that an APEX does (e.g. the whole barrel is curved, VS the APEX's 0.5" of rubber "ramp" sitting at the very end of a straight barrel). You seriously think the APEX will shoot almost twice as far?

[JChan819]

Well, I'm gonna try it, eventually. :-D *Notice, I said it was what I heard.*

I dunno. I haven't balled in a while. Guess I'm goin' crazy. :-)

[MisterMister]

I am in no way calling you a liar. Im just pointing out the facts.

[JChan819]

No offense taken, brah. But I'm just spittin' what I heard. :-)

[TheSpy11]

ACTUALLY, the 98 version is BETTER then the A-5 version. It has a LOT more area under the curve giving it better backspin characteristics and more range while being more accurate to boot. In fact, the UMS (http://www.undergroundmodshop.com/) sells adapted 98 Flatline units for the A-5. They are expensive (50 bucks more then an A-5 Flatline) but they have been proven to be the best Flatlines available.

ACTUALLY, the A-5 version is better for a couple reasons. 90%+ will agree with me. Granted the 98 Flatline has greater range, but that's also part of the reason why the A-5 Flatline is better. Because the 98 Flatline imparts more spin on the paintball, it causes consistency issues in accuracy. Simply put the A-5 version puts a greater percentage of paint where the user wants it. The A-5 Flatline also has a flatter trajectory. Combine the lowered accuracy with the awkward alignment/installation characteristics, and the 98 Flatline only appeals to a small minority.


Also please tone down the PPS love. I also really like a certain few companies, but I don't parade their products around unless someone asks for my opinion about it.

[Donster 125]

I had the same question and i still do!!! i did a lot of research, and the best barrels are anything by either J&J or Lapco. Now the difference between the 2 vary. for one pieces, go with the J&J, but for 2 pieces, go with the lapco.

[Donster 125]

what is the best barrel for under $100 for A-5: accuracy

this is just to repeat what i said earlier, anything by J&J or Lapco for a tippmann. if you want specifics, pm me and ill tell you the difference between the two.

[Eladamri]

ACTUALLY, the A-5 version is better for a couple reasons. 90%+ will agree with me. Granted the 98 Flatline has greater range, but that's also part of the reason why the A-5 Flatline is better. Because the 98 Flatline imparts more spin on the paintball, it causes consistency issues in accuracy. Simply put the A-5 version puts a greater percentage of paint where the user wants it. The A-5 Flatline also has a flatter trajectory. Combine the lowered accuracy with the awkward alignment/installation characteristics, and the 98 Flatline only appeals to a small minority.

Agreed, I wouldn't use a 98 flatline if someone gave it to me. I've spent way to much time trying to get other peoples 98 flatlines to work properly. I would use an Apex barrel for woodsball but my preference would be for either a barrel kit like the J&J edge kit or a good quality .691 or .692 barrel. Barrel kits are nice, but I use the .691 back most of the time when using a kit anyways.

[a5domination]

is the J&J full tilt or J&J edge elite kit better for accuracy

[a5domination]

does the J&J edge elite kit or lapco snapshot have better accuracy

[MisterMister]

does the J&J edge elite kit or lapco snapshot have better accuracy


Neither will have better accuracy then the PPS Brass barrel. PLUS they cost more, and they won’t work with 99% of the paint sizes out there, unlike the PPS barrel. Honestly, unless you want to spend the cash on getting a proper barrel KIT you should REALLY consider the PPS Brass barrel.

Like I said, the MAIN reason why a barrel is "accurate" is due to a proper paint to barrel match. And the ONLY way you are going to get a proper paint to barrel match with a wide variety of paint types/sizes is to either get a barrel KIT (different barrels, different barrel inserts, or different barrel backs) OR GET A PPS BRASS BARREL. The PPS Brass is the only barrel that I know of which uses elliptical honing, making it the only barrel which can and will shoot pretty much 98% of the different paint sizes available with accuracy (e.g. by maintaining a proper paint to barrel match).

The barrels you mentioned above are good barrels. They are high quality, but they are SINGLE BORE BARRELS. That means that;

A) they don’t offer you different barrel inserts or backs, and...

B) The will only shoot 1 or 2 different paint sizes accurately because that’s what they are limited to in terms of getting a proper paint to barrel match!

If you truly are interested in getting a truly accurate paintball barrel, you need to take what I am saying into consideration.

edit: in case you need it: https://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/index.php/cPath/60?

PPS Barrel info:
"Achieve extreme accuracy with these custom made solid brass barrels. Brass provides the least friction against gelatin and the best opportunity to get it shaped and finished properly. The texture and shape of the bore are both important to consistency and effectiveness. The way that we set up barrels here depends on the gun and its use. However, the basic concept is based on a shape that is slightly elliptical. A little tighter at the breech and muzzle than in the center section of the tube. The specific dimensioning will vary with the type and setup of the gun. We have had good results with shaping to meet the basic need of guns by brand but will usually achieve better results when we have THE specific gun to work with. Wedgits can be use with pumps and closed bolt paintball guns. Nickel plating and or powder coating is only on the outside of the barrel with polished raw brass on the inside." http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/barrels.htm (http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/barrels.htm)

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/misc/barrels-spyder.jpghttp://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/misc/barrels-misc.jpghttp://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/misc/barrels-misc-tips.jpg

[JChan819]

Either MisterMister spends a lot of time typing, or he copy and pastes. :-D But yeah, he's pretty much right. He SWEARS by this barrel.

[MisterMister]

only thing I copied and pasted is the stuff off of the PPS website (in quotations).

[a5domination]

the J&J edge elite kit comes with 5 backs(.682, .685, .688, .691, and .693) and it comes with three fronts (making a total of 12", 14", and 16") this is 15 different combinations for $95 including S&H. and if you like the pps brass so much, why don't you use it

[JChan819]

He does use it...

The barrel acts like a kit. It doesn't need different backs. Read what he posted. Owners of this barrel claim nothing but on-point accuracy.

[a5domination]

does it break big bore paint due to the eliptical honing

[JChan819]

It shouldn't. At the tip, it shouldn't be anything less than .689 or .687. It shouldn't have an effect, I believe.

[MisterMister]

Iver shot almost every size paint through mine with nothing but awesome results.

Ive used every type of Diablo paint, Nelson Special Forces, Neson Nel-Splat, Nelson Anarchy, Monsterballs, Bonusballs, WPN: Toxic, Elixir, and Weapons grade, RPS Marbelizers, PMI Premiums, EVERY Draxus paintball ever made, CORE premiums, WGP: WarGames and Premiums, & PMI Rampages, as well as some odd field only paint (plus some I am forgetting). ALL without ANY problems, and ALL shot like they were 100% paint to barrel matched. And this is all with ONE barrel. My PPS Brass barrel. Thats over 25 different types of paintballs, and from different brands. Some brand new, and some REALLY old. NONE had ANY problems breaking or shooting improperly.

[Eladamri]

a5domination,

I've used the J&J edge barrel kit for nearly 3 years now. I switched to the J&J kit from the freak kit which I did not like. The J&J kit is a great kit for the money and I've had nothing but good results with it. I've owned and shot many different barrels over the years, and the J&J edge kit is one of the few barrels or barrel kits that I would hands down recommend and I would definitely buy another one. I've had to use all the backs in my kit at one point or another at different tournaments. Thats a difference of .682 to .693. I can't imagine any one piece barrel being able to perform better than a kit, elliptical honing or not.

[a5domination]

what bore size is your pps brass(.685 or .690) and how would i clean it if i got the powder black

is the J&J edge air efficient or are there too many ports, and what did you not like about the freak. how do you clean the edge

[MisterMister]

a5domination,
I can't imagine any one piece barrel being able to perform better than a kit, elliptical honing or not.
That’s because you obviously haven’t used it, nor are you an engineer.

Elliptical honing works. I have over a full year of empirical data and experience to back that up, and Palmer has over 20 years worth of data and experience to back up their claims (and that amount of time to perfect their production and design).

I’ve shot almost every size/type of paintball under the sun with my PPS brass barrel and I’ve owned 3 different PPS barrels on 2 different markers. All of which have given me the same excellent results. I have also owned the Freak Kit, hammerhead kit, and Stiffi kit, so I have direct examples from which to compare results to with the PPS Brass barrel.

Just because you don’t understand how something works doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work.


what bore size is your pps brass(.685 or .690) and how would i clean it if i got the powder black

is the J&J edge air efficient or are there too many ports, and what did you not like about the freak. how do you clean the edge

It was the "standard" size. you can special order different sizes (bore) of PPS barrels. but 99% are a "general" (standard) size. I had whatever size it is that Palmer sends you (I believe it is .688) when you order their PPS Brass Barrel w/o specifying a specific bore. I suggest you do the same.

As for cleaning, I didnt do anything other then run it under warm water to clean it after playing a game then towel dry the exterior, while swabbing the inside clean/dry. In game, I used swabs and squeegees like any normal barrel. it works just fine. And the brass shoots clean just as well as any carbon-fiber or ceramic barrel (that is to say, very well).

[Eladamri]

That’s because you obviously haven’t used it, nor are you an engineer.

Elliptical honing works. I have over a full year of empirical data and experience to back that up, and Palmer has over 20 years worth of data and experience to back up their claims (and that amount of time to perfect their production and design).

I’ve shot almost every size/type of paintball under the sun with my PPS brass barrel and I’ve owned 3 different PPS barrels on 2 different markers. All of which have given me the same excellent results. I have also owned the Freak Kit, hammerhead kit, and Stiffi kit, so I have direct examples from which to compare results to with the PPS Brass barrel.

Just because you don’t understand how something works doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were an engineer. :dodgy:
I may not be an engineer but I was a research scientist for nearly 10 years before going to law school and have spent 3 years working on things such as Patent drafting, so I can generally figure out how things work. Oh, and btw I've had some engineering classes and know how to use CAD. I could care less that your a fanboy of Palmers barrels. Just because I don't agree whole heartedly with you is no reasons to get your panties in a wad. As I've said before, Palmer barrels were considered to be the best barrels made at one time, but that time was 15 years ago. There is no way a single barrel can give the versatility of a descent barrel kit. I'm not saying the the Palmers might not be the best single barrel under the sun, but its still not a kit. I understand the concept behind "elliptical honing," I just don't believe its necessary the best thing since sliced bread. If you want to be a fanboy of Palmers thats great, but I don't remember you sudden being deemed the Barrel God of PBR. I'd be willing to bet that I've owned just as many barrels as you in the 15 years or so since I first played Paintball. I've paid over $50 for a bag of 500 paintballs, have you?

what bore size is your pps brass(.685 or .690) and how would i clean it if i got the powder black

is the J&J edge air efficient or are there too many ports, and what did you not like about the freak. how do you clean the edge

I had one of the early freak kits that was know for their poor quality. The barrel inserts weren't always the size they were marked and I had a problem with my kit shaving the soft inserts when you screwed them together. A couple of times over about 6 months of use the barrel would start slicing paintballs, and after disassembly you would see a piece of metal sticking into the barrel from the insert. Easily fixable by using a file, but IMO you shouldn't have to worry about your barrel slicing paintballs. The J&J edge has about the same efficiency as most ported barrels, I can't say that I've ever complained about the efficiency of it. As far as cleaning, I use a battle swab when I have to during games, which isn't often and I clean it with water between games if there was a break, same as I would most other barrels.

[MisterMister]

You obviously completely missed my point. Engineering is a science. As any good scientist knows, you do NOT make assumptions without some sort of empirical data back up the hypothesis. You obviously have not owned one of the PPS barrels in question, so that whole “empirical data” thing just went out the window. The point being (my original point that is) is that if you were an engineer you wouldn’t be making myopic and presumptuous statements like

“I can't imagine any one piece barrel being able to perform better than a kit, elliptical honing or not.”

As for the rest… well, once you have the experience to back up a statement as such, let me know. I don’t care if you spent a grand on 1 paintball or have used every OTHER barrel under the sun for the past 100 years. Until you actually operate a PPS brass and compare it to a complete barrel kit (back to back as I have, in this specific case) your opinions and uneducated presumptions are null and void.

[TheSpy11]

Mister: What barrel kit did you use for the test? Were both barrels used on the same gun at the same time period?

A couple things cause the Palmers to appear like every other barrel gimmick in the past 15 years.

1. These brass barrels have been around for years, and yet the popularity of the barrels was low then and even less now. If this technology truly was revolutionary, players would still be using them, or an equivalent, today. Instead what we have seen if countless numbers of barrel kits produced with no attempt to revitalize elliptical honing.

2. Fluting, rifling, etc. have all been gimmicks. That has been the norm with "special" barrels.


Now this is not to say that the Palmers isn't a great barrel, as I haven't had the chance to test it, but on paper is doesn't appear to be anything special. That's why not everyone here is going to immediately buy it hook, line, and sinker.

[a5domination]

eladamri, why does J&J use ceramic, is it low friction

[Eladamri]

a5domination, J&J claims that they use a ceramic and teflon coating because it lowers the friction coefficient of the barrels and because its easier to shoot through breaks. I haven't noticed anything about the friction, but it does take less time to shoot through breaks with the ceramic coating .

You obviously completely missed my point. Engineering is a science. As any good scientist knows, you do NOT make assumptions without some sort of empirical data back up the hypothesis. You obviously have not owned one of the PPS barrels in question, so that whole “empirical data” thing just went out the window. The point being (my original point that is) is that if you were an engineer you wouldn’t be making myopic and presumptuous statements like



As for the rest… well, once you have the experience to back up a statement as such, let me know. I don’t care if you spent a grand on 1 paintball or have used every OTHER barrel under the sun for the past 100 years. Until you actually operate a PPS brass and compare it to a complete barrel kit (back to back as I have, in this specific case) your opinions and uneducated presumptions are null and void.

Well, I never claimed my "opinion" was scientific fact. As you noted I only said I can't imagine the palmers being better. If you read any of my other posts concerning the palmers barrels, including ones on other threads I acknowledged the fact that they were at one time considered to be one of the best barrels on the market. I have shot and used palmer barrels, just not on a semiauto. The palmer barrels I shot were on sheridan pumps. Honestly I switched from brass barrels years ago and haven't thought twice about the decision since.

As you pointed out, scientists don't make assumptions. You seemed to have missed the fact that you want me to assume that you are correct. My point is that you haven't shown me any data at all to back up your argument. You basically keep saying that you are right and I am an idiot for doubting you.

Now the current, accepted theory in the paintball community is that barrel to paint match has a major effect on the accuracy of marker. With the J&J barrel kit you can get a range of .682 to .693. This is a range of custom fitting of .011. Now, I may not be an engineer, but I doubt that the elliptical honing of the Palmers barrel goes through that entire spectrum. If it did, it would seem that paint that was say .692 would not fit through the portion of the barrel that was .682 without breaking. If the barrel doesn't go through the entire range of .682 to .693 then it only stands to reason that it is impossible to get a paint to barrel match for the paint that is outside of the range covered by the elliptical honing. Now I believe that it is possible that the elliptical honing might make the barrel fit say 75% of the paint out there. This could be done by having the barrel range in size from say .688 to .692. So if the barrels elliptical shape ranges less then the .011 that the barrel kit offers, at one end of the spectrum you are either going to have to break paint that is too big to fit and at the other end you are not going to have a good barrel to paint fit with paint that is too small. Therefore, it stands to reason that a barrel kit must "fit" more paint than the palmers barrel. This is my hypothesis, as a scientist, not as an engineer. If you have any data to refute my hypothesis I would be glad to consider it. Until then I'm going to refrain from making any assumptions about the correctness of the propaganda you keep spouting out.

[ooNIKoo]

thank you Eladamri.

[a5domination]

what bore is are fronts of the J&J edge kit

[TheSpy11]

The fronts will have a very large bore (probably around .700 or so). The back controls the paint/bore match, so the front's bore doesn't matter.

[Andrei_Shubin]

J&J make good barrels i recently bought the Edge Barrel kit all star(with my own money!) and its awsome especcialy the bores. You could buy the starter edge kit for $95. It comes with bores and a choice of one barrel. The allstar gives a choice of 2 and the eleit edge gives 3.

[kreger101]

I have a J&J Ceramic 14", and it works perfectly :)