Upgrade or new gun?

[shadow31]

I currently have a spyder electra '05 with a redz pepperstick and dye stickies. Just recently I earned $200 and want to put a low pressure system on my gun. I can use the money for upgrades or I could by an Ion or Autococker. I would buy the Autocoker SF if i bought that. So what should I do, upgrade, buy the Ion, or buy the Cocker?

[GoWH3fan]

I would buy a a cocker mainly because upgrading your current gun would be kinda uselless because you will invest 200 dollars in something that you can not resale for more than 150 even with upgrades and also instead of a highly upgraded blowback spyder you will have a blowback spyder (BACK UP) and a very good cocker.

The reason why i recomend a cocker over the ion is i hate sp and also i have heard good things about them. (also if you really want a ep i would look for a promaster they are a pretty popular alternitive and are fairly cheap.)

[pacman552SD]

i think you should go for the cocker so you will have 2 guns but insted of the sf i would recomend a 04 vert feed ( aka 04prostock) it is far more upgradeable and is overall a beater gun

[Algernon]

EDIT: say far, far away from autocockers. they're no good these days. they are ancient marker with a screwed up method of operation that has beed made obsolete by about a decade or so or paintball innovations. i'v been playing for what will be 10 years in november. autocockers were great/OK markers back in 97-99. in a lot of way the stacked tube blowback is superior, more advanced design. instead of a self cocking pump (auto-cocker) the spyder is a more simple, more rubust automatic marker that is purpose built semiauto and not some ate up derivitive of a pump trying to auto pump itself into a semi. they're mechanicaly and pneumaticly complex, they have to be timed and they can be fragile. an elctro mechanical E-spyder or clone a superior marker to any mechanical cocker. i was there when E-spyders first hit the market, and they ran circles around my, and any other, mechanical marker of the day. your electra is a better marker than a mechanical autococker.

I currently have a spyder electra '05 with a redz pepperstick and dye stickies. Just recently I earned $200 and want to put a low pressure system on my gun. I can use the money for upgrades or I could by an Ion or Autococker. I would buy the Autocoker SF if i bought that. So what should I do, upgrade, buy the Ion, or buy the Cocker?


tough question. i would say yes and no. from what i understand the LP kits really don't do a whole lot for the marker. you really need to lower operating pressure and cycling mass to get the desired effects. i'd recommend picking up a cheap, used LP valve and a lighter weight striker made of milled aluminum or preferably nylon (plastic) or delrin material.

play with the electra for a while and save up another $100 putting you at $300 + whatever you can get for the electra when/if you sell it. with that amout of $ you can afford all sorts of nice used markers and some very nice new markers, the PMR, 'ephy, fusion and promaster to name a few.

ions are great, bit you'll need $60 in parts outta the box to make it usable in my book. i'm not going to play any paintball with that stock trigger and duckbill. i payed something like $140 for my used ion and it came used with a great trigger and feedneck on it. the stock barrel shoots through breaks very and matches my paint well enough. i threw on an ASA, ripped the rubber foregrip of the reg, painted it hot pink and caked it paintball stickers. that marker is a beast and i beat the crap out of it, but it performs as well as anything else out there aside for lack luster consistancy for the reg. it's the asthetics and feel of the ion that are it's drawbacks. it wasn't made to have the same high-end feel of a shocker or simila high-end, however its performance is all the same.

i'f you trying to upgrade from an electra, try to find something with some high-end niceness to it. get something in a gloss anno, ect. stay away from ions unless they used with frame and body kit.

[Milky Spore]

EDIT: say far, far away from autocockers. they're no good these days. So, you're telling me http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/uzielgal/?action=view&current=FastbackmQvalve.[COLOR=black]flv ([/COLOR)] this is no good? they are ancient marker with a screwed up method of operation that has beed made obsolete by about a decade or so or paintball innovations. If it wasn't for the Cocker, we wouldn't have todays ram and poppet markers. I mean, they have a LPR, ram, and 4 way valve, same as a Cocker. The only difference I see is todays high-ends have all this stuff inside the gun. i'v been playing for what will be 10 years in november. autocockers were great/OK markers back in 97-99. Autocockers were the Cadillac's of the paintball world in this time period. in a lot of way the stacked tube blowback is superior, more advanced design. So, a design that is loud, in-efficent, and has a lot of kick is superior to one that is quiet, has very little kick, and is very efficent, is better? instead of a self cocking pump (auto-cocker) the spyder is a more simple, more rubust semi-automatic marker that is purpose built semiauto and not some ate up derivitive of a pump trying to auto pump itself into a semi. they're mechanicaly and pneumaticly complex, they have to be timed and they can be fragile. It's called Brass Eagle, not all blowbacks are durable. I've also seen Spyders develop strange problems for no apparent reasons. an elctro mechanical E-spyder or clone a superior marker to any mechanical cocker. Ok, so judging from this statement, all you care about is the speed of a marker. i was there when E-spyders first hit the market, and they ran circles around my, and any other, mechanical marker of the day. your electra is a better marker than a mechanical autococker.




tough question. i would say yes and no. from what i understand the LP kits really don't do a whole lot for the marker. What LP kits? You have to buy your own parts, and tune it yourself. Not exactly an easy process to do. you really need to lower operating pressure and cycling mass to get the desired effects of what an Autococker can achieve stock. i'd recommend picking up a cheap, used LP valve and a lighter weight striker made of milled aluminum or preferably nylon (plastic) or delrin material. You'd need a valve, regulator, high flowing VA, spring kit, light weight bolt, and light weight striker for a LP Spyder.

play with the electra for a while and save up another $100 putting you at $300 + whatever you can get for the electra when/if you sell it. with that amout of $ you can afford all sorts of nice used markers and some very nice new markers, the PMR, 'ephy, fusion and promaster to name a few. Spyders have no resale. If you throw $300 into it, expect to get $150 back.

ions are great, bit you'll need $60 in parts outta the box to make it usable in my book. i'm not going to play any paintball with that stock trigger and duckbill. i payed something like $140 for my used ion and it came used with a great trigger and feedneck on it. the stock barrel shoots through breaks very and matches my paint well enough. i threw on an ASA, ripped the rubber foregrip of the reg, painted it hot pink and caked it paintball stickers. that marker is a beast and i beat the crap out of it, but it performs as well as anything else out there aside for lack luster consistancy for the reg. it's the asthetics and feel of the ion that are it's drawbacks. it wasn't made to have the same high-end feel of a shocker or simila high-end, however its performance is all the same.

i'f you trying to upgrade from an electra, try to find something with some high-end niceness to it. get something in a gloss anno, ect. stay away from ions unless they used with frame and body kit.

.

[GoWH3fan]

thx milky i was going to say that and thx for agreeing with me on resale value.

[shadow31]

Thanks for the help! I think I'll go with Algernon's idea of saving up a little more, then selling and buying a nicer gun. This seems the most practical to me.

[Algernon]

yes, in retrospect i believe that the stacked tube blow back to be a superior design to the autococker. at the time which shot better? a 99 worr was a nicer marker than a spyder but the cocker required a lot of TLC to get it shooting the way it should. hindge frames weren't around. you had to spend big bucks or a single trigger frame with it's screwy linear trigger pull or do your own trigger job to get a ROF clearly superior to the spyder. the cycling mass of the back blocks were also a joke. private label autocockers were very nice markers, and arguibly the best markers of their day, but they very, very expensive and were passed up by electro-mechanical blowbacks within a matter of a few years.

which design has become more successful, the blowback or a the autococker? the blowback has become much more successful and therefor superior. i'm not say that a mech cocker shoots better than a mech spyder, or that an eletromechanical spyder shoots better than a electromechanical autococker. what i'm saying is that the blowback is more reliable, cheaper, and electronic making it, for the money, a better marker.

If it wasn't for the Cocker, we wouldn't have todays ram and poppet markers. I mean, they have a LPR, ram, and 4 way valve, same as a Cocker. The only difference I see is todays high-ends have all this stuff inside the gun.

i don't agree. actually the timmy is nothing more than a ram driven spyder, replacing the blowback valve with a poppet valve and ram driving a striker.

Spyders have no resale. If you throw $300 into it, expect to get $150 back.

yep, it's not worth investing that much into a spyder. actually i was telling him to save up another $100 and then sell the spyder to add to the $300, not invest $300 into the spyder.

You'd need a valve, regulator, high flowing VA, spring kit, light weight bolt, and light weight striker for a LP Spyder.

exactly. it's not worth it unless you can get your hands on those parts and on the cheap, otherwise just save you money for a different marker.

Ok, so judging from this statement, all you care about is the speed of a marker.

not at all. if you followed any of my post here on pbe you'd notice that i tend to argue to 15bps caps and "rof is highly overvalued" sort of arguments. there is however, a destict difference in electronic markers and mechanical markers in relation to their capabilities. an electronic E-spyder/clone is just a far more cabable marker than a mechanical anything out of the speedball field. yes i still have one of my hindge framed cocker clones and i love it it death, but i'll be the first to admit that the kid down the streets spyder imagine is a superior marker.

good discussion, but yeah save up for a nicer marker.

[pacman552SD]

algernon you do relize your saying that a ELECTRIC spyder is beter than a MECANICAL cocker . if u face up two mecs or two electrics the cocker would win in each also a cocker can be tacken much farther than a spyder this is because of the blow backs design it is less eficient loud and kicks more than a .22 but the cocker is quiet eficient and kicks no more than most other markers in general cockers are a beter investment becose they can be turned into verry nice hi endish guns

[Algernon]

algernon you do relize your saying that a ELECTRIC spyder is beter than a MECANICAL cocker . if u face up two mecs or two electrics the cocker would win in each also a cocker can be tacken much farther than a spyder this is because of the blow backs design it is less eficient loud and kicks more than a .22 but the cocker is quiet eficient and kicks no more than most other markers in general cockers are a beter investment becose they can be turned into verry nice hi endish guns

electronic spyders cost a much as mechanical autocockers. that's why that comparison is being made. i frankly don't give a damn how effcient a marker is, as air is free. we're not talking about project markers and which one is better to buy then build up, we're talking about which marker is all around better speedball marker out of the box for the money or with very little money invested into it.

ebladed autocockers are nice. the optical trigger is very smooth and snapy. i get the chance to play with my old friend's ebladed 04 prostock and it's great marker. if you want a cocker for cheap get a used ebladed cocker, but stay away from any mechanical autocockers. a mechanical autococker is not a upgrade from an 05 electra.

[xXBloodLustACXx]

You can easily get an E-cocker for $200 or so if you look around. I know nothing about cockers really, but they seem pretty nice and an electro one would be an upgrade for sure.

Don't get an Ion, that's not much of an upgrade honestly. I went from Electra to Ion and totally regretted it. Save your money, once you hit $250 or $300 you can get great used markers that are infinitely better than any E-Spyder.

Or, if you really like the idea of an LP E-Spyder get a VS2, much cheaper than pimping your Electra to attain the same (or worse) results.

[shadow31]

Well i just emailed a local field about an upcoming 3-man tourney asking if my gun was even legal with the rocking trigger. They replied saying that the rocking trigger would not be allowed in this tournament!:( In order to play in the tournament I need to get a gun in about 2 weeks with the $200 i have. Selling my gun is out of the question because I still owe $170 to my parents for it. They've let me keep the money and just work around the house to pay it off so if I sold it that would just go towards paying it off. With that in mind I've been scouring ebay for upped ions and upped cockers. $200 is my absolute max at this point if I want to compete. Also, saving my money will do no good because work at home just goes towards my other gun.:eek: I'm in a lot of trouble here. Any advice on the best thing to do would be greatly appreciated!

[xXBloodLustACXx]

You can definitely get a nice used Ion for $200 in 2 weeks, use PBN if you're open to that. If you really must compete in the tourny then I think an Ion would be great since there are so many out there for sale, but if it really doesn't matter that much I'd wait to work off the Electra, sell it to someone locally (hopefully for a nice amount of money, maybe $150 if you get very lucky) and buy something with the $300 you have later on.

Or maybe you could borrow a gun from someone? Even an old Spyder is better than nothing, someone must be able to help you out especially a team member.

[shadow31]

Ya i've been looking on ebay and I found a killer deal. It's a slightly used ion with qev, clamping feed neck, fire bolt, blue body kit, drop forward + on-off asa, and a progressive barrel for 205 bucks buy it now. I'm really hoping I can get it.

[iliveforthis99]

Now tell me ions being so popular is a bad thing when you can find deals like that. I'd personaly try to for that ion if you can and then throw on a new trigger when you can.

[Milky Spore]

Well, that is one of the good things about the Ion coming around, is that it killed the re-sale value of every other marker, making them cheaper for the consumer, but you get less when you sell them.

Take a look for used E-Cockers too, they'd be better than the Ion, and if you can find one for $200, it's be a better deal.

I don't understand why some tournies make the Rocking frame illegal, I mean, it's NPPL legal, so why can't it be legal at your local tourney?

[xXBloodLustACXx]

It's so stupid, the guys organizing the event probably never even tried one so they just assume it has crazy bounce and is completely unfair. If it's good for the NPPL, it should be good for any small tournament. I would actually ask them why it's illegal just to be a pain, and you never know, maybe you can persuade them to allow it.

[shadow31]

Ya it is pretty stupid. The trigger is very adjustable, I adjusted it so that I had practically no bounce. As for persuading them, I don't know how good it would be to argue then turn around and try to get a sponsor from them lol. I'm kinda lookin towards them for my first sponsor.

I've been looking for used e-cockers and can't find any that I really like. Theres only a few on ebay. I think I will have to go with the ion that I found though and then save up to get a nicer trigger. I'm probably going to just order it up tonight. I want to be able to get used to it before the tourney so I gotta get it soon.

[mugenXP]

do not waste your money on a spyder LP kit please