When is it time to get a new marker?

[TheCanadian]

My friends are slowly getting new markers such as Pilots, 98s with RT, and AutoCockers. They are not the greatest things in the world but they are better than their previous set-ups. They have been playing with... well "beginer" set-ups for two or three years now so they have moderate experiance with the sport... i do not. But as i find myself getting out gunned i feel the need to get a better gun also. My friends tell me not to sence i got my gun in june and that too soon to get a new one.

This leads me to my question: Is it too soon to get a new gun or should i defy my friends and save up so next season i have a shiny new gun like the rest of them? Its not a big deal but i'd like to hear other people's opinions besides my friends.

Thanks for the help!

[cclaxattack30]

Throw an egrip on that mr1 before you just up and buy a new ***. That would be my advice.

[TheCanadian]

ive priced it out before though and it would be cheaper to buy a new gun rather than upgrading. plus then i have a better gun to work with.

[redz22]

save up... if ur getting out gunned, then u need to get one...or if its out dated... look at the gun in my sig.. i think it would be perfect for

[iliveforthis99]

Well imo those guns are still in the beginners category (depends on what kind of cockers) and except in the area of a little more speed are the same as the mr1. Just play w/ your gun and practice your skills, that's what really matters.

[4THDEGREE]

Well imo those guns are still in the beginners category (depends on what kind of cockers) and except in the area of a little more speed are the same as the mr1. Just play w/ your gun and practice your skills, that's what really matters.

Well spoken. A faster gun will not make you a better player. Your present gun will encourage you to learn to play the angles better, make better and faster moves, and to take more quality shots. I fear the guys who walk on the field with a pump gun more than I do the guys who walk on with high end guns and I make this statement knowing I only play Speedball.

[blue_phoenix]

I couldn't agree more with the last two posts. Having a SL 74 doesn't make you great. Sure, you can sling paint like it's nobody's business, but that doesn't improve your playing quality. If you feel like you NEED to upgrade, do it slow. Other than that, you should be just fine. KEEP ON PLAYIN! :)

[TheCanadian]

i seemed to do ok when i played speedball once at feild, but i usally play in backyard feilds so its hard to play angles and stuff when your bunkers are a couch, an old door, and a pile of fallen tree limbs.... i do agree with you guys though but its hard...

[banderson]

I agree with Fourth, it helps your game to stay with a low-end for awhile. But, I love playing with high-ends too, brings other aspects of the game into play, like burning lanes and such.

Dont upgrade liek your friend is, he is wasteing alot of money slowly going up the ladder. Wait, save up some cash, and just right to a high-end when you think you need it.

I made the mistake of going the cocker route then E2ing it, which basicly put me in the hole about $200. When it was all said and done I had paid $500 for a marker that I hated and had no idea how to take care of. After I sold it I got on Ebay and found a PM5 with tank and halo for $289.
Moral of the story? Shop around, and dont go out and buy the fastest marker you can just to beat your friends.

[di$TOrTed]

Upgrading from an MR1 to something only a bit better won't really help you too much.......... my advice is save up and get something nice. Such as a PMR, Mini, or maybe an Ion if $400 is a little steep.

[TheCanadian]

thanks for the help guys. now i know what i should do! i just didnt want to go just on my friends advice. They can play the game but outside of that no common sense whatsoever(one is saving for a 21" sniper barell, another hasnt cleaned his spyder sence he bought it, and last but not least is the person who sits in one spot in the woods with a gillie suit and trys to snipe....every game.) so i need outside help when i can get it.....

[Milky Spore]

Well spoken. A faster gun will not make you a better player. Your present gun will encourage you to learn to play the angles better, make better and faster moves, and to take more quality shots. I fear the guys who walk on the field with a pump gun more than I do the guys who walk on with high end guns and I make this statement knowing I only play Speedball.

People laugh at me when I get on the field with my Phantom...:(

Anyways, as said before, wait a while to get another gun. You will become a much better player relying on yourself than your gun.

[xXBloodLustACXx]

Those guns your friends upgraded to are hardly better. Maybe a little faster just due to better trigger pull, but otherwise not more accurate or anything. If I were you I'd get an HPA tank (assuming you can get fills) and keep the old gun, the HPA will make your gun a bit more accurate.

Playing with a slower gun will help you work on skills, something I never did really (I started with a Fenix and went to an Electra very quickly... both Spyders, but that rocking trigger was fast)

[TheCanadian]

i just got back from a day of playing at a friends house and well it was not my day, got lit up twice and shot trying to untangle my leg from a vine. But the best part of it was that someones cousin, who is on a team that is quite good, was there and he knows what he was talking about!
He told me the exact same thing you guys did, keep using my current gun and save for a long time untill i can buy somthing in the vein of an ion. sounds about right to me!
oh yeah i almost forgot the autococker my friend has is a trilogy that wont work right so that is defently a beginer gun

[4THDEGREE]

Here is some great help. Move a lot, keep your eyes open, and learn to work the tapes (outside edges of the playing area) to get good shooting angles on your opponents. This does not work every time, but it limits your attention to front and inside angles. Remember, you learn more by getting shot out be better players than you do shooting out lesser players all the time.

[misfit0022]

When you can outshoot your marker, get a new one. If not than its fine.

[TheCanadian]

well of course i can outshoot my gun its an mr1.
But anyways the cousin also showed me how i should hold my gun to lower profile and how my front should face the target not my side. also he showed me this weird dynasty form or somthing? where you set up behind a bunker and shoot right handed on you right side and shoot left handed on your left side but you do it at random. i think that is a little advanced for me but it was still cool to watch.

[iliveforthis99]

That's a good thing to use though since you're opponents will have a harder time predicting where you'll come out from. The last time i played there was kid who kept popping out in the same place so i just kept the paint going and nailed him easily.

[Ebonclaw]

If you come out of the right side of a bunker, you should be holding the gun with your right hand on the trigger, with the loader tilted left towards the bunker to hide the loader, and your profile, behind the bunker. If you come out of the left side, your left hnd should be on the trigger and the gun tilted towards the bunker to the right...this minimizes profile and is especially advantageous in speedball where coming out with the wrong hand leads to any easy shot to another player.
Here's a picture of said reference:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/Ebonclaw/snapshooting.jpg
That guy is coming out the left sdie of the bunker, so he's shooting with his left hand, and his hoper is tilted in to his right behind the bunker.

The trick is to change up which side and where you come out to shoot, for instance:
top left, low right, high right, top left, top left etc....
Practice changing hands quickly in your house even without paint and it'll become natural when you need to do it. It feels a bit weird till you get used to it, but once you practice it enough, it becomes fairly natural.


As far as the gun goes:
The MR1 is a good gun for beginner play, but if you wish to upgrade, get a GOOD upgrade. Don't buy another e-spyder, or e0gripped tippmann, get an electropnumatic gun of some nature, like an Ion or Promaster if you're on a budget, a Fusion or PMR if you can spend a bit more, or consider buying used for a good discount. I picked up a nearly new Fusion for $275 recently and it's a very nice gun.
However, like these other guys said, don't rely on heavy firepower to win your games. Become lethal with what you have, and when your playing skills outgrow your gun, then upgrade and you'll be a killer with a better gun. When you tire of mowing faces with a fancy new toy, the go pick up a pump for added challenge.
Having more firepower is only half the battel, being skilled enough to utilize it properly is the key. Anyone can throw 50 balls down a speedball field or from tree to tree in the woods, being able to get a kill by leaning out quickly, keeping your profile tight, and playing properly suddenly makes those 50 balls a lot scarier to your opponents. I don't fear the unskilled guys with fast guns, I can practically trot to my bunker safely. I fear the guys that are good regardless of the gun they may be packing.

[Milky Spore]

If you come out of the right side of a bunker, you should be holding the gun with your right hand on the trigger, with the loader tilted left towards the bunker to hide the loader, and your profile, behind the bunker. If you come out of the left side, your left hnd should be on the trigger and the gun tilted towards the bunker to the right...this minimizes profile and is especially advantageous in speedball where coming out with the wrong hand leads to any easy shot to another player.
Here's a picture of said reference:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/Ebonclaw/snapshooting.jpg
That guy is coming out the left sdie of the bunker, so he's shooting with his left hand, and his hoper is tilted in to his right behind the bunker.

The trick is to change up which side and where you come out to shoot, for instance:
top left, low right, high right, top left, top left etc....
Practice changing hands quickly in your house even without paint and it'll become natural when you need to do it. It feels a bit weird till you get used to it, but once you practice it enough, it becomes fairly natural.


As far as the gun goes:
The MR1 is a good gun for beginner play, but if you wish to upgrade, get a GOOD upgrade. Don't buy another e-spyder, or e0gripped tippmann, get an electropnumatic gun of some nature, like an Ion or Promaster if you're on a budget, a Fusion or PMR if you can spend a bit more, or consider buying used for a good discount. I picked up a nearly new Fusion for $275 recently and it's a very nice gun.
However, like these other guys said, don't rely on heavy firepower to win your games. Become lethal with what you have, and when your playing skills outgrow your gun, then upgrade and you'll be a killer with a better gun. When you tire of mowing faces with a fancy new toy, the go pick up a pump for added challenge.
Having more firepower is only half the battel, being skilled enough to utilize it properly is the key. Anyone can throw 50 balls down a speedball field or from tree to tree in the woods, being able to get a kill by leaning out quickly, keeping your profile tight, and playing properly suddenly makes those 50 balls a lot scarier to your opponents. I don't fear the unskilled guys with fast guns, I can practically trot to my bunker safely. I fear the guys that are good regardless of the gun they may be packing.

QFT. A good example of people who don't know how to use that firepower was these guys I was playing with last weekend. Almost every game I pushed their 40 and I didn't get shot doing that once while they were spraying god knows how many paintballs towards me.

[Lenny17]

I started with a mech US-5 (yet another low end blow-back), and when I got the itch to buy something else, I bought an old used pump for $50. It gave me something different to try when I was playing, and I've been able to swap back and forth from my semi to my pump, depending on what I was feeling.

Some people point and laugh at my Hammer, others show some respect. But I bought it to have a little fun with the game and to improve my skills, and not to be the '1337 pwnzor' or anything like that. But it has given me a solid backup gun, a second marker to tinker with, and a change of pace when I want it.

My next gun will either be a phantom ( stock class baby! ), or an auto-mag of some type. Upgrading from my US-5 to something like an e-gripped X-7 or spyder is only a partial upgrade, they are all still blow-backs. I figure if I am spending my hard-earned cash on a new gun, I'm not going to half do it.

[TheCanadian]

Could you tell me what i should expect to pay for a fiber tank 45/4000? and would i be able to use this on my current gun with out modifacation?

[malcontent]

yes, you can use compressed air on any marker w/out conversion (unless its stock class, then only 12gram carbon dioxide cartridges will work)

not sure exactly on prices for carbon tanks in canada though.

[Lenny17]

Yeah, in canada I'm not sure, and due to DOT/TC rules, you can't just buy a tank in the U.S. and have it shipped over.

But I bought mine (a crossfire 45/4500) on actionvillage.com, and paid about $170 for it brand new.

When you are buying one, make sure it is a high pressure output. Air tanks have three ratings - size, tank pressure and output pressure. A high output pressure (typically around 800ps1) is designed as a screw-in replacement for CO2 tanks.

[blue_phoenix]

you can get the tanks for a decent price. I got mine off ebay for 75 bucks, and the hydro still doesn't need to be done for another year. Just shop around, and you can come across some very very nice deals on that kind of stuff.

[Milky Spore]

yes, you can use compressed air on any marker w/out conversion (unless its stock class, then only 12gram carbon dioxide cartridges will work)

not sure exactly on prices for carbon tanks in canada though.

I can run HPA on my SC Phantom. :P

If you live in Canada, look for a tank that is certified for use in Canada. It sure would suck to get your nice new $150-$180 dollar tank and find out it can't be filled in your country. After that, get one with a 850psi or so output pressure. Also, try to go for a 68ci/4,500psi size instead. Unless if you really need a tank that small, it's nice to have the extra shots.

[TheCanadian]

i don't live in canada anymore i live in Michigan so dont worry about that.

i thought that a 68/4500 would be too expencive but as i prowled ebay i saw loads of them packaged with ions and a hopper for 200 dollars so i think that may be the route i take instead....

[malcontent]

I can run HPA on my SC Phantom. :P



stock class meaning no constant air...

i know you can run a phantom on HPA, but it wont be considered stock class, just pump.

[Lenny17]

I think his point is that even if you buy a 'stock class' phantom, it is still possible to take off the 12g changer and add an air tank. It won't technically be stock class anymore, but it will still run off of the air tank.

[Lopez17]

I believe Crossfire had a special going on their site where new Crossy's were $159, not sure if it's still going but I believe tehy're based out of Kalamazoo MI.

[shanosalami]

People laugh at me when I get on the field with my Phantom...:(

i get intimadated by guys that play pump.

doesnt mean they beat me :cool:

[iliveforthis99]

AV has the same deal on crossfire tanks as well.

[CQB.Wardog]

If I may add something here. A marker can hold you back, if it's a piece of junk. But buying a high end marker that can shoot a lot of paint does not give you skill. It can enhance what you've got, but it can't give you what you need. I use my Tippy in speedball games and I'm never out-gunned.

Getting decent gear will allow you to grow into a better player. But I'd also recommend buying a gun that fits you, and not what a lot of us tell you to get. You might like something like a Tac-1 or a Tippmann, if you get the chance to try them. I'd highly recommend getting to a store, and picking up as many markers as you can. Shoulder them, see if they feel right. the best gun in the world is worthless if it doesn't feel right to you. Advice is good, pracitical application is better.

good luck, happy hunting

[Hipster]

I play with a Spyder with a couple of extras. I only get out balling 10 times a year or so, and find that skill is far more important than kit - if cash is burning a hole in your pocket, a nice mask will make far more difference to your play. I try to work hard at moving, and snap shooting, and it's usually the first couple of balls that get the kill, not the last, so extra firepower will do me no good!
A few months back I played at a local site, and a guy was there with a lovely new Ion, with all the extras, plus pulse loader. Lovely gun, but his eyes would be more useful to him - I crept round the flank (woodland site), and nailed him in the back!
On the same line, one of the guys a who works at the local site is an awesome player. He shoots an Angel of some sort, which cost him a months' wages. It went down on him mid way through the day last time I watched him play, and he he went on to carry on ripping the place to pieces with a shot to bits Tipman 98c rental....

[TheCanadian]

thanks for all the help again guys. Also just so you know, i dont want a new gun soely for the speed, i really just want somthing that can hit the same spot consistantly. Im not the kind of person that wants to shoot a case a game.

People laugh at me when I get on the field with my Phantom...
im scared to death of three things: drowning, getting eaten alive (especially if they start at my feet), and people who are good with pump guns. Every time i go to my local feild there is the same person who has a pump gun. he owns everyone there without mercy. one game he only shot four times and he got three kills...man i wish i was that good.

I do have another question though: what is the difference between the ion and the ion Max'd? thanks again

[Milky Spore]

The only difference is I don't own everyone, but I do own a good amount. :)

Anyways, the Ion Max'd has a new rail, I think a Freak Jr., a Q-lock, and a new body kit.

[TheCanadian]

is it worth the extra money?

[iliveforthis99]

Uh in a way it is but there's better guns in the same price range.

[TheCanadian]

i wouldnt buy it new of course im just looking on ebay, and pricing things out so i know how much i have to save.

[iliveforthis99]

Well then if you're looking at used guns then just keep you eyes out for a used ion. You can get a near or fully upped ions for around $400-$500 now.

[SkiLLZtHAtKIlls]

look at promasters, Its a true ep and is a great marker. As for compressed air, I got my geddon 68/45 for 51 dollars on ebay brand new. Look around, it can save you alot of money.

[TheCanadian]

just by looking around though it seems like you get more for your money with the ion. also the ion isnt a true ep? i thought it was an unbalanced spool valve...

[iliveforthis99]

They're both EP but depending it's just the promaster uses an air controlled ram to hit and open the valve to send air through the bolt. The ion is just the bolt and noid. The noid controls the air flow to bolt and all there's not ram involved. Take a look at zdspb.com they have animations there that will show you everything.

[TheCanadian]

ok how about this: would a q-loader be a worthwhile investment for my current and future set-up because it not that much more expensive than a electric hopper and it has some fairly good reviews of it on here. so is it worth the money or is it a fad?

[Ebonclaw]

The Q-loader is not exactly a fad, it's more of a niche market item. You really don't see many tourny teams using them for a reason. The big problem with the Qloader on a tourny field is twofold:
a) High end guns are designed to give good balance with the loader on it and are extremely lightweight, sticking a qloader under the barrel dramatically affects the balance of the gun.
b) The pods are not capable of fitting in any old harness
c) The pods are expensive and tourny ballers have a tendancy to be rather rough on their equipment anyway. I have a habit of chucking my pods a reasonable distance away from me so as to not give away my position nd possibly provide a minor distraction in an arena anyway...they get stepped on and everything else.
d) It's not nearly as easy to reload a Q-loader as it is to dump a pod into a HALO or whatever with a speedfeed.
e) You can't reload a Qloader AND keep your gun up and pointing at a target...no more shooting while reloading.

Qloaders target woodsballers who don't want a hoper giving them away in the woods, who are aiming for a more authentic look for their guns, and traditionally, woodsballers have something against equipment that uses batteries and makes motor noises, so the Qloader provides a solution to this as well....so like I said, niche market.

[Lenny17]

The q-loader also only holds 100 paintballs - not nearly enough in my eyes. Even in casual walk-on play I'll go through more paint than that, unless I'm playing pump. And who has heard of a pump with a q-loader? :P

But especially when compared to the standard capacities of hoppers and pods, you end up needing to carry a lot more q-pods to carry the same amount of paint. You figure I carry a full 200 round hopper and three 140 round pods, for a total of 620 paintballs. To match that with a q-loader, I would need a loaded q-pod on my gun and another five on my back. If I was a real paintslinger, going through half a case in a game, I would need to carry NINE q-pods with me, in addition to the on eon my gun. And at the price per q-pod, that just plain and simple is not going to happen.

[Milky Spore]

The Q-loader is not exactly a fad, it's more of a niche market item. You really don't see many tourny teams using them for a reason. The big problem with the Qloader on a tourny field is twofold:
a) High end guns are designed to give good balance with the loader on it and are extremely lightweight, sticking a qloader under the barrel dramatically affects the balance of the gun.
b) The pods are not capable of fitting in any old harness
c) The pods are expensive and tourny ballers have a tendancy to be rather rough on their equipment anyway. I have a habit of chucking my pods a reasonable distance away from me so as to not give away my position nd possibly provide a minor distraction in an arena anyway...they get stepped on and everything else.
d) It's not nearly as easy to reload a Q-loader as it is to dump a pod into a HALO or whatever with a speedfeed.
e) You can't reload a Qloader AND keep your gun up and pointing at a target...no more shooting while reloading.

Qloaders target woodsballers who don't want a hoper giving them away in the woods, who are aiming for a more authentic look for their guns, and traditionally, woodsballers have something against equipment that uses batteries and makes motor noises, so the Qloader provides a solution to this as well....so like I said, niche market.

Plus it's not Agg! :dodgy:

[Chickenmunga]

Q-Loader depends on what style you want to play. If you would rather be a sniper or go for a more "one shot kill" mentaility, the q-loader works great. My buddy runs with a mech Cocker, Q-loader, and a stiffi 18" - he's quiet, has a small profile, and is quite accurate. He plays conservatively, so he usually has the ability to rail off rounds for those people who get too close.

I play differently - I'm a runner. I have a Mini and a VLocity Jr. I go through more paint because I provide cover fire or do ambushing. Also, I can mow through bushes due to firepower.


It depends on what you want to do - however, the most flexible option is your standard electro hopper.


The pods are not capable of fitting in any old harness

Not true, they fit in my harness, although they are snug. You just have to be more picky about which harness you get.

[TheCanadian]

i guess a eggy3 would be a better choice then, because i want to start playing speedball. But would buying the hopper now be overkill because i got a mech right now? ive got about 70 bucks in my funds at the moment.....

[4THDEGREE]

Just save the money and wait until you find a really good deal on VLocity Jr. or have enough to upgrade all the way across the board.

Don't be a typical kid that let's money burn a whole in your pocket...;)