Which Barrel for my A-5?? HELP!!!!

[kdogg843]

Which between the 4?

a) Dye Ultralight (recommended by the refs and managers at the rec field I play at)

b) J&J Ceramic

c) Flatline( least favorite of the refs at the field)

d) Smart Parts Progressive

??????????? :crazy: ???????????????

[MisterMister]

None of the above.

Palmer's Pursuit Shop (PPS) brass barrel> all the barrels you just mentioned.

First of all, the PPS shoots almost any size ball as well as an entire barrel KIT. The barrels you just mentioned may be able to shoot as accurately as the PPS brass but only with 1 or 2 sizes of paint while any size outside of that small range will suck balls. On the other hand, the PPS Brass will be highly accurate with pretty much ANY size ball you put through it.

Secondly, the PPS is made of... well... brass. Brass offers the LOWEST coefficient of friction when put against paintball gelatin. This means that less kinetic energy is lost through friction as the ball moves down the barrel, paint which is too large or which is very fragile/damaged will easily squeeze through the barrel without breaking, and any breaks you do happen to get will shoot through with minimal effort (as shown by Mann's barrel test on PBN).

Last, but certainty not least, the PPS Brass barrel costs less (significantly so for most of them) then the barrels you mentioned. The PPS Brass only costs $45-$55 depending on which color finish you would like to have. Of course there are even more options which can put the cost at over 100 dollars but you don’t need (or even want) any of said options for any Tippmann (namely porting). Basically the only options which will cost you any extra that you should be considering is what color finish you want the barrel to come in. If you want plain brass its free which makes the barrel $45. If you want to get a black powder-coat finish (which perfectly matches the black finish on Tippmann markers BTW) it's 10 bucks extra, bringing the total cost to only $55.00 (I would suggest getting this coating since it matches your marker and it helps protect the barrel from scratches and what not).

You do NOT want to get the venting (AKA porting) option. That only serves to reduce noise when you shoot, however, the A-5 (because of it’s very nature) is going to be loud no matter what barrel you put on it, so it is a useless option for you to get (and an expensive one too).

I have owned 3 different PPS Brass barrels over the past 2 years on as many paintball markers. Trust me when is ay I wouldn’t keep buying these barrels if they didn't do EXACTLY what they say it does.

On a related note, the PPS Brass will absolutely OWN all of the barrels you mentioned if you shoot after a break (see Mann’s barrel test) in terms of accuracy and consistency, with only the Dye UL barrel matching it's accuracy/consistency during normal every-day operation.

BTW, I have personally owned the Dye UL, J&J S2 2 piece ceramic, and GTA Flatline barrels as well as the PPS Brass. Coming from my own personal first hand experience with these very barrels, I can confidently say that the PPS owns all 3 of them, hands down, in every respect.

Here is all the info you would ever want on the PPS Brass Barrels:

http://paintballpalmer.com/showthread.php?t=396

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/barrels.htm


PPS Barrels

IMHO, brass provides the least friction against gelatin and the best opportunity to get it shaped and finished properly.
There seems to be a general "GADGETUDE" that wants to try to match a barrel to the paint being used. (of course this is promoted by those that want to sell barrels) It is far more important to match the barrel to the guns valveing and the way the expanding gas is used/released. The only other factor that I feel needs to be addressed in barrel selection is that of length. The variable that effects the decision of what length to use is temperature averages. As temperature raises, the gas is under higher pressure and is able to expand and accelerate faster, making a short barrel useable, but anything under approximately eight inches becomes counter productive in all but extremely warm conditions. On the other hand, colder weather slows down the expansion process and requires a little longer tube to allow things to get up to speed without wasting much of what is released by the valve. A barrel that is too long will also yield unfavorable results due to the extra gas needed to keep the ball moving past the point where desired velocity is reached. Too much gas generates a muzzle blast that effects the ball after it has left the barrel. Who knows what direction a ball will take when the gas blows past it outside of the guidance of the barrel. In most cases, 12" should be considered as the maximum effective length for a paintball barrel. The pressure options from a regulated high-pressure system will also affect the choices for "optimum" barrel length in much the same manner.
the texture and shape of the bore are both important to consistency and effectiveness. (FYI: Colin Thompson and I generated some huge phone bills with discussions over valving and launch tube shapes, while trying to come up with ways to achieve the right balance, many years ago.)
The way that we set up barrels here depends on the gun and its use. However, the basic concept is based on a shape that is slightly elliptical. A little tighter at the breech and muzzle than in the center section of the tube. The specific dimensioning will vary with the type and setup of the gun. We have had good results with shaping to meet the basic need of guns by brand but will usually achieve better results when we have THE specific gun to work with.http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/misc/barrels-misc.jpghttp://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/misc/barrels-spyder.jpg

And to order the barrel, click here:


http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_34&products_id=162

For the options you will want to choose:

Size: .685 bore
Misc: NO VENTING
Length: 12.0 inches
Finish: Black Gloss Powder Coat -or- Brass

...on that note, I will also say that I have talked quite a few people into getting the PPS Brass barrel for their marker and every single person has LOVED it.

-MM

[kdogg843]

Thanks for the tip dude!

[colbyashi13]

Dude, get the PPS brass barrel. They are more consistent than any others I have seen. You can even get an adapter to use an apex tip on it (for $30). That is useful if you play woodsball. good luck making the right choice.

[Corrupted355]

Apart from the Flatline, all the barrels you mentioned are perfectly adequate. Not quite so adequate as the Brass, but they'll get the job done.

If you frequent the Tippmann forum or A5OG.net, you'll notice that the Brass is widely accepted as the best single bore, one piece barrel on the market. To get a better barrel, you've got to get a kit with removable inserts.

[A5 for life :D]

:love: get the j&j edge elite kit from firstcallpaintball.com i got it for my a5 and im very happy :D 10,14 and 16 in. tip was what i chose..its a 8 piece barrel kit for $85

[Lenny17]

I'll second the J&J Edge Elite kit. It has made a significant difference over the stock barrel. I also like that since both of my markers are spyder threaded, I have two barrels for the price of one kit!

I won't dis the PPS brass barrel, though. I've never used it, but I've heard good things about it.

[Corrupted355]

Getting a kit is almost always going to be better than getting a single bore barrel. The Edge is an excellent kit from what I've heard.

[MisterMister]

Not always. It really depends on the user and the use.

[Corrupted355]

... almost always ...

Like I said...

[Kowz_76]

Be prepared, I shall tear your post to shreads...

None of the above.

Palmer's Pursuit Shop (PPS) brass barrel> all the barrels you just mentioned.

First of all, the PPS shoots almost any size ball as well as an entire barrel KIT. The barrels you just mentioned may be able to shoot as accurately as the PPS brass but only with 1 or 2 sizes of paint while any size outside of that small range will suck balls. On the other hand, the PPS Brass will be highly accurate with pretty much ANY size ball you put through it.
Simply not true. I've shot many bore sizes through many 40 dollar barrels (most notably the CP 1 piece and Lapco Bigshot) and had excellent results with both. The key to good accuracy is using good paint with a well made barrel. I disagree that the PPS is th only barrel that can do that.

Secondly, the PPS is made of... well... brass. Brass offers the LOWEST coefficient of friction when put against paintball gelatin. This means that less kinetic energy is lost through friction as the ball moves down the barrel, paint which is too large or which is very fragile/damaged will easily squeeze through the barrel without breaking, and any breaks you do happen to get will shoot through with minimal effort (as shown by Mann's barrel test on PBN).
First off, let's see numbers. Secondly, the differences in the coefficients of friction would be minimal. This is the same ploy that gained SS barrels like the boomstick an amazing reputation. I've owned SS and aluminum barrels and shot the PPS brass, and can't say that the friction on one really makes any difference.

Last, but certainty not least, the PPS Brass barrel costs less (significantly so for most of them) then the barrels you mentioned. The PPS Brass only costs $45-$55 depending on which color finish you would like to have. Of course there are even more options which can put the cost at over 100 dollars but you don’t need (or even want) any of said options for any Tippmann (namely porting). Basically the only options which will cost you any extra that you should be considering is what color finish you want the barrel to come in. If you want plain brass its free which makes the barrel $45. If you want to get a black powder-coat finish (which perfectly matches the black finish on Tippmann markers BTW) it's 10 bucks extra, bringing the total cost to only $55.00 (I would suggest getting this coating since it matches your marker and it helps protect the barrel from scratches and what not).
There are many excellent barrels for $55.

You do NOT want to get the venting (AKA porting) option. That only serves to reduce noise when you shoot, however, the A-5 (because of it’s very nature) is going to be loud no matter what barrel you put on it, so it is a useless option for you to get (and an expensive one too).
Again I disagree. Porting does serve entirely to quiet the marker, but a blowback with a non-ported barrel is ridiculously loud.

I have owned 3 different PPS Brass barrels over the past 2 years on as many paintball markers. Trust me when is ay I wouldn’t keep buying these barrels if they didn't do EXACTLY what they say it does.

On a related note, the PPS Brass will absolutely OWN all of the barrels you mentioned if you shoot after a break (see Mann’s barrel test) in terms of accuracy and consistency, with only the Dye UL barrel matching it's accuracy/consistency during normal every-day operation.
There is no way a PPS brass can "own" an ultralite or J&J cermaic considering I have seen both put ball on ball at high ROF.

BTW, I have personally owned the Dye UL, J&J S2 2 piece ceramic, and GTA Flatline barrels as well as the PPS Brass. Coming from my own personal first hand experience with these very barrels, I can confidently say that the PPS owns all 3 of them, hands down, in every respect.


=
Plus, a brass barrel weighs like 10lbs. I'm by no means saying the PPS barrel is bad, I just have yet to see it really outshine other barrels.

Let me quote Mann's barrel test for a second:
"PPS brass-scale 1-10 I would give it a 7. It shot many diff bore paints, and shoots all equally. It is not by any means as accurate as some barrel kits, but defiently an all around good single bore. "

Don't think the PPS brass is the best thing since sliced bread. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Boblord]

10 pounds is a bit of an exaggeration. I'll agree that this barrel is by no means a lightweight. It's much heavier than a stainless steel of equal length, but an A-5 weighs enough as it is. A couple more ounces should be the least of concerns.

In my opinion, the brass barrel performs exceptionally well on an A-5. I used one with my old setup and it shot just as good if not slightly better than my titanium Boomstick. The only problem I have with the thing would be the maintenance. If it's not cleaned out after every game it'll build up a lot of tarnish on the inside of it. It's a great barrel, but I'd suggest to go ahead with the J&J.

[Kowz_76]

10 pounds is a bit of an exaggeration. I'll agree that this barrel is by no means a lightweight. It's much heavier than a stainless steel of equal length, but an A-5 weighs enough as it is. A couple more ounces should be the least of concerns.

In my opinion, the brass barrel performs exceptionally well on an A-5. I used one with my old setup and it shot just as good if not slightly better than my titanium Boomstick. The only problem I have with the thing would be the maintenance. If it's not cleaned out after every game it'll build up a lot of tarnish on the inside of it. It's a great barrel, but I'd suggest to go ahead with the J&J.Yeah 10lbs is obviously an exaggeration, but when you say weight shouldn't be his concern, that's just wrong. When you already have a heavy gun, why make it even heavier by adding a heavy barrel? We're NOT talking a couple ounces. A brass or SS barrel can easily weigh 2lbs.

The other thing about the brass is the fact that if you want it over 12", which I think is a good idea (better for sticking through brush in the woods and pushing airball bunkers) it'll cost you at least an extra $15.

I really do agree that the J&J ceramic is one of the best barrels out there. It's accurate with good paint and shoots through breaks well.

[Corrupted355]

I have never had a problem with my Brass tarnishing, but I keep it in a plastic tube with endcaps when I'm not using it. Also, I did a test a while back that provided evidence that the Brass is noticable more accurate than a J&J S2 at distances greater than 75 ft.

And I've never really had any barrel "clean" itself. Any barrel that is well matched to it's paint will get rid of most of the paint, but there's still going to be enough of a film left to throw a ball off course more times than not.

I don't mean to bash the J&J by any means. It is a great beginner barrel. For years it's all I used because I couldn't find anything I liked better.

[MisterMister]

Simply not true. I've shot many bore sizes through many 40 dollar barrels (most notably the CP 1 piece and Lapco Bigshot) and had excellent results with both. The key to good accuracy is using good paint with a well made barrel. I disagree that the PPS is th only barrel that can do that.


Have you shot a PPS Brass, let alone spent any reasonable amount of time getting to really know one? Obviously not, given what you just posted. So then, how can you say with no uncertainty that what I said is "simply not true"? Oh wait, you cant. You can only make assumptions and educated guesses based on irrelevant experience and secondhand knowledge.

BTW; The *key* to accuracy according to Glenn Palmer (which I agree with 100%) is;

"There seems to be a general "GADGETUDE" that wants to try to match a barrel to the paint being used. (of course this is promoted by those that want to sell barrels) It is far more important to match the barrel to the guns valveing and the way the expanding gas is used/released. The only other factor that I feel needs to be addressed in barrel selection is that of length. The variable that effects the decision of what length to use is temperature averages. As temperature raises, the gas is under higher pressure and is able to expand and accelerate faster, making a short barrel useable, but anything under approximately eight inches becomes counter productive in all but extremely warm conditions. On the other hand, colder weather slows down the expansion process and requires a little longer tube to allow things to get up to speed without wasting much of what is released by the valve. A barrel that is too long will also yield unfavorable results due to the extra gas needed to keep the ball moving past the point where desired velocity is reached. Too much gas generates a muzzle blast that effects the ball after it has left the barrel. Who knows what direction a ball will take when the gas blows past it outside of the guidance of the barrel. In most cases, 12" should be considered as the maximum effective length for a paintball barrel. The pressure options from a regulated high-pressure system will also affect the choices for "optimum" barrel length in much the same manner."

Of course, I would also like to add that matching the paint size to the barrel is another important fact. This is why the elleptical honing on the PPS barrel works so well. Paintball deform slightly when fired. The specialized honing in the PPS barrels takes advantage of that fact. This is something no other barrel does, which is why this specific barrel works so well with such a large range of paintball sizes and CONDITIONS (e.g. out of round, slightly damaged, and/or paint which is too large or small for the bore, etc.)

First off, let's see numbers. Secondly, the differences in the coefficients of friction would be minimal. This is the same ploy that gained SS barrels like the boomstick an amazing reputation. I've owned SS and aluminum barrels and shot the PPS brass, and can't say that the friction on one really makes any difference.

And when did you get your PH.D in physics and fluid dynamics? How can you sit there and ask me for hard numbers, then turn around and say that any difference is going to be "minimal" without any numbers of your own? Irony much? What I said is true, brass offers an extremely low cF. This conclusion reflects Mann's results of firing the PPS brass after breaking paint in it. In that specific test, the PPS Brass beat every single bore barrel, then went on to beat or match the vast majority of barrel KITS, most of which cost twice as much or more then the PPS.

BTW, the Dye Boomstick, in it's day, was and still is an A-1 barrel. Hell, the owner of a local pro shop here in San Diego (who can obviously have ANY barrel he wants on his marker) uses the Dye Boomstick.

There are many excellent barrels for $55.

That may be, depending on your definition of "excellent". However, you will be more then hard pressed to find a barrel at or below $55.00 (new) which can match the PPS brass in every category of performance. That was and still is my only point here. I fail to see yours though.

Again I disagree. Porting does serve entirely to quiet the marker, but a blowback with a non-ported barrel is ridiculously loud.

Okay... what exactly do you disagree with? Not the fact that porting only serves to reduce noise... not the fact that a Tippmann is, by it's very nature, loud. So, WTF is it that I said which you "disagree" with? Did I ever say that an unported Tippmann was going to be quiet? Did I even say ANYTHING about how loud or quiet an unported Tippmann would be? No, I didnt, so I am sure you can see my confusion here. It seems as though you are just grasping at straws so you can "tear [my] post to shreads".

That being said, let me speak from first hand experience. My A5 was home to a vast number of barrels. I can tell you, without a doubt, that my A-5 with an UNPORTED, 12" PPS Brass barrel was QUIETER then the GTA Flatline, or stock barrel.

Regardless, my only point there was to say that paying extra for the porting on the PPS barrel, if it's going on a Tippmann, is a waste of money for *most* players.

There is no way a PPS brass can "own" an ultralite or J&J cermaic considering I have seen both put ball on ball at high ROF.

Did you bother looking at the test results? You obviously saw the test in question because you quoted from it earlier. The test titled "Accuracy after a break" shows otherwise. The J&J Edge Elite & Dye Ultra-Lite and PPS Brass all scored between 10 out of 20 and 12 out of 12 hits after a break in the barrel (with the J&J only MATCHING the performance of the PPS... and thats J&J's TOP OF THE LINE ceramic KIT)

BTW; You are also going to back up what you just said by stating that you have seen "both [barrels] put ball on ball at high ROF"? Are you serious? And you are comparing this to what since you obviously have no experience with the PPS Brass?

:rolleyes:

Yeah 10lbs is obviously an exaggeration, but when you say weight shouldn't be his concern, that's just wrong. When you already have a heavy gun, why make it even heavier by adding a heavy barrel? We're NOT talking a couple ounces. A brass or SS barrel can easily weigh 2lbs.

The other thing about the brass is the fact that if you want it over 12", which I think is a good idea (better for sticking through brush in the woods and pushing airball bunkers) it'll cost you at least an extra $15.

I really do agree that the J&J ceramic is one of the best barrels out there. It's accurate with good paint and shoots through breaks well.

A 2 lb BARREL? Are you frigging kidding me? :laugh:

The PPS brass (even w/o the porting which will decrease weight) isn’t THAT heavy in reality. It’s only heavy in comparison to the ultra light aluminum and carbon fiber barrels out there.

I have a dual spiral ported 14" PPS brass for my PMR, as well as a Deadly Wind carbon-fiber (probably the lightest barrel available). Yes, when you hold the barrels in your hand you can notice the difference. Yes, when you put the barrels onto the frame of the marker, you can notice the difference between the two. HOWEVER, once you add a full HPA tank and a topped off hopper of paint, that difference becomes negligible ESPECIALLY when you are actually playing and not paying attention to how much your marker weighs.

BTW my barrel (14", dual spiral ported, black powder-coat finish) weighs in at 244.8 grams which is = to 8.6 ounces or .5 lbs. (yes, I weighed it).

Oh and FYI yet again, the 12" STAINLESS STEEL (which, again, isnt anywhere NEAR 2 pounds) Dye Boomstick weighs in (according to Mann's barrel test on PBN) at 270.4 grams! Thats 9.5 ounces or ~.6 lbs. Any way you measure it, it's more then the longer PPS brass barrel and NO WHERE NEAR an "easy 2 pounds"!.

As for wanting PPS barrel that's over 12", Glenn Palmer has this to say (as I posted earlier to make a different point...):


"The only other factor...in barrel selection is... length. The variable that effects the decision of what length to use is temperature averages. As temperature raises, the gas is under higher pressure and is able to expand and accelerate faster, making a short barrel useable, but anything under approximately eight inches becomes counter productive in all but extremely warm conditions. On the other hand, colder weather slows down the expansion process and requires a little longer tube to allow things to get up to speed without wasting much of what is released by the valve. A barrel that is too long will also yield unfavorable results due to the extra gas needed to keep the ball moving past the point where desired velocity is reached. Too much gas generates a muzzle blast that effects the ball after it has left the barrel. Who knows what direction a ball will take when the gas blows past it outside of the guidance of the barrel. In most cases, 12" should be considered as the maximum effective length for a paintball barrel. The pressure options from a regulated high-pressure system will also affect the choices for "optimum" barrel length in much the same manner."

So, basically, you are trying to tell me that I am wrong about the PPS Brass barrel while never having actually spent any real time USING one.

Yea, "to shreads":dodgy:

[Kowz_76]

Blah blah blah, lots of bashing me, not very much info in that post.

You have Glenn's quote there, and it seems to say that you should be matching a type of barrel to your type of gun, which is just wrong. If a spyder shoots +-3 and a DM8 shoots +-3, both will be equally accurate with the same barrel.

Now, YOU were the one who made the claim that a lower coefficient of friction would make a difference. I was the one who said that difference would be minimal in a paintball application, and I attribute this knowledge to the use of aluminum, ceramic coated, and SS barrels. As long as you're using fresh paint and decent p/b match, you shouldn't get barrel breaks. So why would it even make a difference?

There ARE in fact many barrels that fantastic for under $55. CPs, J&Js, Lapco Bigshot, need I go on?

You didn't say that an unported tippy would be quiet, neither did I. I was simply suggesting that making a cannon might not be the best idea, especially if you play woodsball. Also, comparing it to the flatline and stock barrels isn't exactly a proper comparison.

As for 12" barrels being the best, I just don't think so. 12" is too small to fit through brush, it's too small to push aside an airball bunker. Both of these are tactical advantages which limit a 12" barrel.

You keep referring to the Boomstick, which is a barrel I'd never recommend getting. The ultralite is the same barrel, and weighs significantly less, which is very handy when you're snap shooting, even with a full HPA and hopper on.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the PPS, I just think you sound a lot like those salesmen that Glenn's talking about in the first quote. They spread "facts" and gimmicks about their barrels in order to make them more popular. I also think that there are much better choices than getting a $55 powder coated, boring looking, unported, brass barrel that weighs half a pound and only comes in two bore sizes.

[Corrupted355]

I would like to interject here into your little soiree here and point out that matching the barrel to the gun type does make a little bit of sense when you look at it from the perspective of valve dynamics. When you think about it, no two different types of valves are going to release the same blast of air. Saying that a Spyder will shoot as accurately as a DM assuming the same velocity and consistency may not be as concrete as you believe. Velocity is a function that includes the barrel, and if we're discussing different types of barrel here, we've got to eliminate all other factors but the barrel.

When you think about it, the dynamics of a DM valve are going to be very different from a Spyder valve, which is going to be very different from a Tippmann valve, which will be very different from an Automag valve. First of all, a valve that operates at lower pressure has to compensate by having a longer dwell than a valve that operates at higher pressure. This alone will affect the pressure wave that pushes the paintball. But then you still have to consider things like the airflow inside the valve. What kind of obstacles the air is going to encounter before it hits the paintball is going to affect the expansion rate of the air released from that valve, and thus change the flight characteristics of the ball given identical barrels. We know that something like a Tippmann is going to use much more air than something like a Mini, even though both guns are shooting at the same velocity. Blowback losses aside, this means that one valve is releasing more air than another, and thus affecting the expansion rate of that released air.

Therefore, matching a barrel to the type of valve that a particular gun uses may actually yield positive results.

[Kowz_76]

Yes, but if a ball exits the barrel at 300fps from 2 different guns, they should, assuming nice, round paint, fly in pretty much the same manner. The ball will be accelerated in a different manner, but we're talking simple projectile motion here.

[Corrupted355]

You're probably right, but I'm just pointing out that there is a possibility that the issue is not as cut and dry as that. And since I don't have the proper resources to test it, and have not seen any definitive evidence either way, I have to maintain the "I dunno" perspective.