Recommendations for Family Newbies (Equipment Purchase)

[jward]

My family would like to play hobby paintball, for myself, my wife, and my 15 year old daughter. Here are the details. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

My budget is: $500 to $800 (for all)

We have no gear at present.

I play mainly: Not familiar with the different in speedball, woodball. We will not play competitively, only for fun.

The features I want in my gun are: (cheap, robust, low maintenance, with reasonable distance/accuracy). That is, we don't need pin point accuracy, but we'd like half decent distance and reasonable accuracy.

I am open to the possibility of a used marker: YES for markers (guns?) and gear.

Other notes:

- We really only need the mask in terms of gear. We don't need the full gear we see on professional players.

- We are totally open to used guns as long as they function. Do guns actually wear out?

So 3 guns, 3 masks.

What is the cheapest paint supply we can get that will work without causing malfunction?

Anything else we should know?

Also: Do they make low powered paintball guns for kids (age 5-7)?

Thank-you for all your help.

[iliveforthis99]

3 Vibes $420, 3 V-Force pro vantage thermal masks $81, 3 Invert 3 or 3+2 pod packs $90, 3 Revolution loaders $105, 3 20oz. CO2 tanks $39, set of 24 pod package of paintballgear.com $30, total about $765. You can bring it down by switching out the Vibes for like mech spyders which run about $60 or so each. Woodsball is welll played in the woods, fields are bigger most of the time and it's a little more on the mil-sim side but not always. Speedball is played on a much smaller field and is more faced faced in your face style of play. As for a gun for 5-7 year olds a mech spyder, 98 custom, or a cheap disposable gun from wal-mart would be fine. But i wouldn't bother since i think the age requirement to play on an insured field is like 10, 5-7 years don't really have any business to play paintball.

[Lenny17]

They do have that BattleMAX system for younger kids, which I think uses soft foam balls rather than paintballs. You can load the balls with a 'paint', but I think you can also use them dry if you want to screw around with them in the house. They are pump powered, and I think a basic kit runs around $100 for the gun, mask and some ammo. But honestly, at 5-7 they might be happier just target shooting stuff in the back yard, and they could do that with your paintball equipment (supervised, of course).

The setup that iliveforthis recommended is a good, all around set up, and would work well in the woods or on a speedball field.

Have you checked around for fields in your area, to see what is available?

[jward]

Thank-you for the great information.

We have both a speedball setup and some woods/jungle setups locally.

Can you recommend any online vendors that have good pricing/reputations?

How do I pick the right paint? Is it all the same for amateurs, or is the cheaper paint really something that will cause issues?

Is is hazardous to buy *used* gear (i.e. specifically markers)? I was thinking about checking email or placing a classified.

Is the paintball and barrel size all the same caliber (standard)?

Is there a target PSI I should look for?

Thanks - I'll start investigating all the equipment referenced above.

I'll cancel the plans with the kids. I might check for a laser tag system; they have fun just breaking the paint. ;)

[Lenny17]

Having both speedball and woodsball locally is nice. It gives you a good ability to try the options and see what you like. I never thought I would like speedball until I played it.

I've used actionvillage.com a lot, they are pretty reasonably priced and reliable. I've also used xtremez.com (aka paintball-online.com) and have liked them as well.

Before you buy paint, check to see if your fields allow you to bring paint. Some fields only let you buy the paint at their field. But for the most part, paint use is a matter of preference and availability. Avoid the really cheap stuff, it will cause more heartache than it is worth. The real expensive stuff just isn't necessary unless you are getting paid to play. I usually shoot for paint that is around $40 a case (of 2000), it tends to be of reasonable quality and doesn't break the bank.

Used markers are like buying anything used - it can be great, or you could get a lemon. I've bought two used markers, and after a minor tune-up they are both working well. But I will say I felt a lot more comfortable buying a used marker knowing that I had a new one that I knew would work if something went wrong.

Paintball sizes do vary slightly. They are all technically the same size (68 caliber) but vary slightly from brand to brand. Any off-the-shelf paintball gun is going to be able to shoot any brand paint. But the slight variations in size do affect accuracy, which is why you can find barrels of different bore size, or kits (single barrel with a changeable bore). But honestly, I wouldn't worry about that just yet. You can always add a new barrel down the road if you feel that you need to.

I don't quite follow what you mean by "what PSI should I shoot for". If you are talking marker operating pressure, I wouldn't worry about it. A marker running at a lower pressure won't necessarily outperform one that runs at higher pressure. If you mean air tanks, that is a different story. But as a cost factor, you are probably better off sticking with CO2 for now.

[jward]

You guys are great. Very on top of things.

Quick followup. Do all guys take both C02 and air? Also - where does one re-fill the tanks? Does it have to be at a paintball store, or other options? Expect to pay x $ per refill?

Do you recommend having multiple tanks for a day's play?

[Blasterfire]

All markers can take HPA (High pressure air), but not all markers can use co2. As a general rule, any mechanical marker can use co2, and electronic markers cannot. There are some exceptions, as an example, the vibe is an electronic marker that can use co2. As for refilling tanks, practically every legitimate field out there will have co2 refills. Where I live (SoCal), co2 or air fills are $10 for all day, so you pay $10 and can fill as much as you want. If you go to play in the woods or something (i.e. not at a field), you would have to fill your tanks somewhere before hand, and I would recommend bringing spares. However, chances are you probably want to go to a field to play, so you should be fine with a tank per marker.

[jward]

HPA is higher performance, more high end versus CO2? They typically provide both at the fields?

[Lenny17]

Most of my local fields provide both, I would check with your local fields to see what they have. Another thing with HPA is you have two different varieties - 3000psi fills and 4500psi fills. This has to do with the internal pressure of the tank (not the amount going to your gun), and higher pressure fills give more shots per volume. The nicer carbon fiver tanks tend to be 4500psi fills, where the cheaper aluminum tanks will be 3000psi.

HPA is more consistent, based on the fact that it has a regulator built into the system, and CO2 doesn't. An HPA tank takes the internal tank pressure (3000 or 4500) and knocks it down to a consistent 850psi. The pressure out of a CO2 tank primarily depends on the temperature of the CO2, and can fluctuate a bit. You can add a regulator to a CO2 system so it operates more like HPA, but it is pretty expensive, because most regulators aren't built for the possibilities of liquid CO2.

Then again, I think markers like the vibe do fine with CO2, because they have their own regulator built in, so you shouldn't see much of a performance difference between HPA and CO2. I don't know this for certain, I would double check the reviews and see what people are saying.

[jward]

Great information. Once I'm done my research, I'll summarize all of my findings from a "newbie standpoint" that might be helpful for others enthusiastic, but completely new too.

It sounds like HPA is better, helps for better accuracy/consistency, longer play time before re-fills (hence lower cost).

[malcontent]

side note on co2... the pressure inside the bottle is dependent on the liquid volume inside the bottle. ie: a full bottle will make your paintballs shoot out at a higher velocity than with an almost empty bottle. this is called drop-off

also, liquid co2 expands at a MUCH higher rate than HPA, therefore if your marker shoots at a higher FPS than normal, hold the marker up and shoot afew times, that SHOULD get most of the liquid out. and try to keep the bottle facing up as much as possible.

other ways to keep liquid CO2 out of the marker are coils in the bottom line hose, expansion chambers and volumizers, (expansion chambers allow the liquid to expand before entering the valve system of the marker) also useing a remote hose connection will help keep liquid co2 out of the marker.

if you DO get the Vibes, a very great way to keep liquid co2 out of the marker would be to have anti-syphons installed on the tanks. these neat little gadges are simple pipes inside the tank that allow only gas to escape the bottle. (the converse would be a syphon tank, but those are only recomended for markers older than 15 years where the parts are much heavier and almost require liquid co2 to operate)

[jward]

If not the vibe, what would be an equivalent HPA gun at around the same quality/price?

Sounds like a lot of factors to consider. As a starter, I don't want to get involved with a lot of modifications in the beginning. HPA seems like it has advantages. I expect the improvement is reflected in the price.

BTW - These paintball tournaments have good prizes? What's the typical entry fee? How competitive is it? Same teams always winning?

[malcontent]

well, if you dont want the vibe and want a really good marker, troll the buy/sell/trade forums and ebay for automags. amazingly simplistic, light weight, they're still upgradeable and work wonderfully with HPA. and the best part is, the design is essentialy the same as it has been for the past 10 years.

price doesnt always equate to quality. as can be said in all things.

as for tournaments, they're different everywhere you go. different rules, different teams. almost always different prizes. the entry fee is usualy reflective of the prizes awarded though.

[iliveforthis99]

If not the vibe, what would be an equivalent HPA gun at around the same quality/price?Ion and Promaster for starters but they both need a few things so the price will go up. For the Ion a new trigger, feedneck, and ASA is a good idea to get, they're not really really needed but they do make the gun better. Promasters need an ASA and macro line kit since they don't come those things. Used guns are good option since you might be able to find like say used Ions and Promasters that have the needed things for less then you'd pay total. Mags are crazy guns, i've been wanting one for awhile due their ruggedness and simplicity. You also have a lot of upgrade and custom options w/ the Mag as well.

[Blasterfire]

If not the vibe, what would be an equivalent HPA gun at around the same quality/price?

Sounds like a lot of factors to consider. As a starter, I don't want to get involved with a lot of modifications in the beginning. HPA seems like it has advantages. I expect the improvement is reflected in the price.

BTW - These paintball tournaments have good prizes? What's the typical entry fee? How competitive is it? Same teams always winning?

Yeah, HPA definitely has it's advantages, but HPA tanks are either 3x or 7-8x more expensive than co2 tanks. Where you can get a co2 tank for $20, an aluminum HPA tank is going to cost between $50-$60 and a fiber wrapped tank is going to cost between $140-$160, at least according to action village. Also, in regards to your earlier question as to places to buy from, I have ordered from actionvillage.com and have never had any problems with them.

[jward]

Would there be any issues with used tanks? What kind of defects wear might they have that would make them defective?

[iliveforthis99]

If you trust the seller and can get good high quality pics of the tank/s to make sure the tank is in good condition you should be ok. Make sure to read what the hydro date is on the tank as well, most tanks HPA tanks need to tested every 3-5 years from the date on the tank. And as for places to buy i've never had any issues w/ actionvillage.com, punisherspb.com, or ansgear.com.

[malcontent]

you might have some trouble w/ punisherpb.com due to the fact that Punisher himself is ungodly overloaded w/ work that hes been pushing people off so he can get a dent in what he needs to do.

so much so that i think he actualy unplugged his computer. i havent seen hide nor hare of him on any forum in almost a year now.

actionvillage.com is a really good place to start. also try http://www.doropaintball.com/ they're a pretty good place to get stuff you normaly wouldnt find for a decient price.

[iliveforthis99]

I just ordered a hoodie from him two weeks ago and didn't run into any trouble or delays. Maybe it's because i live a few states down but i get everything i order from him in like 2-3 days.

[mgitlin]

One thing you might want to consider is your technical prowess. If you're good at tinkering and fixing things, then an electropneumatic marker wouldn't be bad. If you're not too mechanically inclined, you might want to stick to the low maintenance of a low-pressure blowback marker (i.e. the new Spyders).

The advantage to those is that they can typically run on both CO2 and HPA, easy upkeep, and typically less expensive breakdowns. The disadvantage is less consistency (unless setup very well), typically lower efficiency, and louder.

[jward]

I suppose it depends on the complexity of the tinkering. ;)

[iliveforthis99]

Most of the newer spoolies aren't really all that hard to break down and maintain. The Vibe and SP1 for example are very easy to understand, breakdown, and maintain.

[20 yr old Faust]

The masks (/goggle systems) are, in my eyes, the most important investment you can make. Get ones that offer the best facial coverage, widest field of view and are the most comfy. Some masks come with visors, small neck/throat guards and/or chin straps.

A CO2 tank that is 0'-2" or less in diameter and 2'-0" or less in length never needs to be hydro tested (known as the 2x2 rule). Not sure how much of a pain getting a tank hydro tested is, I re-stamp mine myself (ticketed red seal Gas/Pipe/Steam fitter, so it's legal people).

Regarding paintball tourney's, teams play to win. Though, many areas have paintball leagues and those are usually targeted to the more relaxed crowd.

My two cents, in CAD.
Happy hunting.

[Spyke1015]

You guys are great. Very on top of things.

Quick followup. Do all guys take both C02 and air? Also - where does one re-fill the tanks? Does it have to be at a paintball store, or other options? Expect to pay x $ per refill?

Do you recommend having multiple tanks for a day's play?
walmart fills tanks

[Spyke1015]

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2148145&cp=2057781.712507.712517.712506&pageType=family&parentPage=family
Will this work only with a tippman listed there cuz i need a remote from a local store for this weekend

[iliveforthis99]

It'll work w/ any gun that either has a bottom line ASA or a standard vertical ASA. Oh and next time don't double post use the edit button and watch the thread jacking.

[mgitlin]

walmart fills tanks
Not all Wal-Marts fill tanks--mine doesn't. We have one sporting goods store that fills just CO2, and another that does HPA & CO2.

[iliveforthis99]

I can't say i've been in a wal-mart that fills CO2 tanks. All the ones i've been in have the tank exchange program.

[Ebonclaw]

The vibe is an excellent reccomendation. If you opt for this gun, know that its high RoF (rate of fire) means that it'll be very competative, but that you'll also need a loader that can reliably keep up with the gun. The Vibes will run you (as previously mentioned) $420 new.
What kind of loader would I reccomend? Well, with Halos coming down as far as they have, I would probably suggest three HALO loaders, at what, $80 a piece is $240, bringing you to $660. The remainder should buy you three Co2 tanks and three masks, for all the basics coming in right around $800.
Advantages to this setup:
Competative guns. They won't shoot like as fast as an $800 gun, but you won't need them to. They're still plenty darn fast and can sling a threatening amount of paint. They're also low recoil guns and they shoot much more like a high end gun than anything else in this price range.
Strong loader system. You could put these loaders on nearly any gun you ever buy in the future and they will keep up fine. They won't break, and they'll feed faster than the Vibes can shoot. Which is a good thing. I always suggest for minimal problems to buy a higher grade loader than your gun (i.e. if your gun is capable of firing 8 balls per second, the loader should feed 12, if the gun can fire 12, the loader should feed 16.....)
Simple maintenence. Vibes are very easy guns to maintain and fix, even for novice users. Your 15 year old daughter would have no trouble doing basic maintenence in 5 minutes once you figured it out enough to show her.
The guns are ideal for both woods and speedball. They're compact enough that they can be manuevered easily in tight speedball quarters and light enough to go tromping through the woods with.

The downsides:
Co2 doesn't like cold temperatures. You'll experience problems in cold weather. (i.e. 50 degrees or lower tends to start making headaches) The Vibe is electropnumatic though, so it's more forgiving of this environment with Co2 than Spyders or other markers are. I could get techinical, but I won't.
Halos are terrific loaders, but they won't feed dark shelled paint. This isn't really an issue becaues you get to generally pick the paintballs you want to shoot, but just thought you should know. I won't get into the technical reasons behind this, but they won't feed dark shelled paint.

Just so you know, should you end up accidentally siphoning liquid into the Vibe, the worst thing that generally happens is the gun leaks until you replace a busted o-ring. The vibe was built to withstand this. Other high end guns, would suffer damage that would require some pretty expensive repairs. You won't have this worry with the Vibe. The anti-siphon tube installed in the tanks is a helpful, but not entirely necessary suggestion, as the Vibe's regulator was designed to help keep out liquid Co2. It might aid in cold weather, but otherwise, worry about it last if you bother at all.
I've seen some packs mentioned, but until you go out and play, you may find yourself not needing them at all. Plus, they're all personal preference. Some people like traveling light and only need a pack that holds two or three pods (like myself). Others like to shoot a lot and not move a lot. They get heavier packs that can hold 5 or 7 pods.
Many recreational players play "hopperball", that is, no one wears any packs and players simply play with what's in their loaders.
See how much you play and how often before concerning yourself with packs. Instead, put that money towards good masks (I prefer Vforce's Nvision masks for about $50 a piece). They're light, offer a wide field of vision, are comfortable, and don't fog, plus fit over glasses comfortably.

[Kung_fu_hippe]

If you guys are just doing this as a hobby, then I think your best bet is buying tippmann 98 customs. They are practically indestructable, and with a new barrel they are golden. They also run fine off CO2, although HPA will yield a slightly higher consistency in your shots.

As for masks, go for something with a thermal lense. And also make sure you try on the mask before you purchase it, so that you know that it's comfortable, because everyone has their own preferences.

My two cents.

[Spyke1015]

I can't say i've been in a wal-mart that fills CO2 tanks. All the ones i've been in have the tank exchange program.
Sorry about the double post
Im sorry if I confused you I meant tank exchange...

[Milky Spore]

You should rent some guns to make sure you like playing. That way you only need to spend about $100 for the three of you to play all day, maybe a little more. If you decide you don't like paintball, and you buy all that equipment, you are going to get killed so badly on resale.