Best First Electric Marker

[thunderbob]

Ok, I am looking for an electronic marker (my first) that would be good for me. I am looking for one in a budget of $200 and below. My first thought was a vibe but an ion is looking wayyyy better for bps and just about 30 bucks more. Or am I better going off and buying an electro Spyder? Ex; Pilot,Pilot 08, Electra, V2 or V3? Does Spyder even make good electronic guns? I need something that will last me good and that wont quit on my the day after the warinty expires. Also, if you mention guns could you please mention a good hopper for them too. All help will be aprecciated.

[CCJRxJF]

I haven't been playing for long so if I say something wrong I'm sorry. Anyway, I was looking for a marker around the same price rang awhile back and from what I can remember for 200$ new your best bet would probably be to get a proto slg, and for around 150 you could get the vibe(Ions right in the middle). You could also look for a used higher end gun, theirs a lot of used Timmys out their for around 150-200$. However if you do go with a high end gun(or the slg) you will need to buy an HPA tank which can run up to 160$, you can get them cheaper depending on the brand. You will also need to buy a good electric hopper if you don't already have one.

[di$TOrTed]

If you can afford it, proto slg or ion would be my recommendations.

If you want to save money, I believe actionvillage has refurbished VS2s for like $70

[Magmoormaster]

You can find some ICD Promasters for obscenely cheap.

But otherwise, SP Vibe. Cheap, and good.

[Lord]

I would suggest saving for a little longer and get about 200 more. then you could get a good 300 dollar marker (09 slg ul, or dp g3 are good new products, used matrixes or timmys are also good) a decent hpa tank (ninja air , guerilla, pmi ) and a good hopper ( VL evo 3, halo) . I think this would satisfy you more in the long run because you could compete with higher end markers right from the box, and with a few upgrades ,arguably, be just as good.200 dollars is a price range that includes mostly only starter markers . So if you're serious about getting into it then may be worth it to move up to the 300 - 400 price range.

[thunderbob]

Alright, I think I will go with the Spyder Pilot ACS Actionvillage $79 and get a Ricochet Apache hopper $20. The Pilot (it says) gets up to 20 bps and the hopper feeds 17-20 or so bps. I have looked on PBR and most of the reviews r good. I can use Co2 with the Pilot (HPA is non-existent around me) and maybe get a 68/4500 later. Then after i get the gun (and use it for a long time) I can get a better board for it (maybe Virtue they have a good board for spyders now) so it will be better and competable with some better markers.

[omegaman111]

i would go with the Proto SLG, its a good marker from a reliable company (Dye is Proto) so you know your getting a good product (correct me if im wrong)

[thunderbob]

di$orted, what does refurbished mean anyway? I have seen them but i dont know what that means.

[scared of C.I.A]

most of the time, its a returned marker, that had a defect, or other problem. they give the customer a new marker or a refurb, and fix the one they sent back with new factory parts. your pretty much getting a new gun, someone bought, didnt work or broke, and then the company fixed it.

[Lord]

if you go with the slg i highly recommend that you get the 09 ul. it is a huge improvement on a gun that got decent reviews in 08 for about 100 more.

[iliveforthis99]

The 09 isn't all that. Same nice gun but i hate paying $300 for a sear-tripper with a plastic UL frame no matter how much i like it. $300 can easily snag you a nice used high-end or used UL'd PMR, new Mini, or G3.

[di$TOrTed]

di$orted, what does refurbished mean anyway? I have seen them but i dont know what that means.

Like scared of cia said, it's a fixed marker. They are fixed and tested and im assuming that they replace all the orings and such too. When you buy it, you're basically getting a new gun that may have a few scratches on it.

[jadavis1992]

get a nice dependable e-spyder
spyders are bullet proof
never had luck with any smartparts markers
i had a vibe and an ion i had to get hpa for either of them to work right

[thunderbob]

ok i have friends who have spyders and they have been working since 2000 or 2001 or somethin gso they are really good markers i think. So ya i'll go with the pilot ACS.

[CriticalCrysis]

smartparts vibes are very reliable.
and the ion is crazy upgradeable.
plus, i got my ion used on ebay for $110 after shipping and it works fine.

^and about the acs...
it is a good solid, reliable marker but since it has no eyes i dont think i would buy it over a VS2

[thunderbob]

there is about no HPA in my area so the VS2 is out of the option because if you don't use HPA in your VS2 then your gonna mess it up.

[CriticalCrysis]

oh. i see.
then i say the smart parts vibe is you best bet.
it can use C02 with no problems

[Da'dtou-di]

get a nice dependable e-spyder
spyders are bullet proof
never had luck with any smartparts markers
i had a vibe and an ion i had to get hpa for either of them to work right

I have an Ion, and it's nice, but I use HPA on it.

I've played with E-spyders since about 2001, and mine worked till the day I sold it. They're simple, to work on and pretty cheap to come across. Recently, I got a VS3, and it's alright, but the best way to go is to follow the KISS rule (Keep it simple stupid), and my old simple spyder Flash was bomb. I think the Pilot's a great choice in terms of value for money.

Soo... simply put: I agree with jadavis, hahaha.

[Algernon]

Ok, I am looking for an electronic marker (my first) that would be good for me. I am looking for one in a budget of $200 and below. My first thought was a vibe but an ion is looking wayyyy better for bps and just about 30 bucks more. Or am I better going off and buying an electro Spyder? Ex; Pilot,Pilot 08, Electra, V2 or V3? Does Spyder even make good electronic guns? I need something that will last me good and that wont quit on my the day after the warinty expires. Also, if you mention guns could you please mention a good hopper for them too. All help will be aprecciated.

Look into Mike Spurlock FASOR markers. They're spring-returned electro pneumatic derivitives of spyder clones. There was a vid floating around on the internet of an Odyssey O2 running full auto off a CO2 fill station, until the marker froze over. It was allowed to thaw, then repeted over and over. Their insulated solenoid cover and 2 way solenoid operation allows them to work wonderfully off CO2. The vibe and Ion do not have insulated solenoid covers. Let the solenoid get cold and form condesation on a vibe or Ion and they're done. The vibe works with CO2 on the principal of CO2 filtering. If liquid CO2 still gets in there the vibe can fail. Not the case with the FASOR products.

Look into:

Odyssey O2, O3 and RPM
Diablo Wrath, AR-1 and slayer
REX Rx, Type-r and R3

[scared of C.I.A]

rex makes decent markers, their derived from the old draguns. i love those old draguns with a passion, never have any problems, and they just like any spyder type marker run beutifully off co2, for the most part i would infact look into a blowback marker such as them. i myself am building up a dragun with some spare parts i have laying around, its gonna be sick.

[thunderbob]

Thats cool CIA. Thanks I will look into those markers too.

[scared of C.I.A]

if you seriously are, on ebay there is an amzing deal for you. for 139.99 plus shipping you can get a rex r1 i believe, with vl force, a 48ci 3000psi tank, mask, pods and pack. and the upgrade chip for the board, and everything new and ready to go. and i think they are supposidly capped at 20bps. it says that you need an anti siphon to use co2 on them, but i know its just like any other electro spyder, if you shoot steady for too long you will freeze up, you can even do it with a mech if you wanted. but if i were in the situation i would def. look into these gems, they are going for dirt cheap now adays.

[scared of C.I.A]

heres the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/REX-R-1-R-2-PAINTBALL-GUN-SUPER-PACK-NEW-BEST-BUY_W0QQitemZ200320358262QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item200320358262&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

[di$TOrTed]

heres the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/REX-R-1-R-2-PAINTBALL-GUN-SUPER-PACK-NEW-BEST-BUY_W0QQitemZ200320358262QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item200320358262&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

:tup: That's a pretty good deal. I would look into that or a Vibe

[Algernon]

The REX R1 and R2 are ok markers. I'd take the electropneumatic REX Type-R RX and R3 over the blowback R1 & R2.

The type-r is THE best bang for your buck paintball marker on the market. Period. It's a $69 electropneumatic marker and it comes with a hard plastic gun case. It's a powdercoated diablo wrath type marker with a bottom line regulator (in place of the wrath's BL type vert HPR), reflective anti chop eye system and a high-rise feedneck of the non-claming variety. It's bare bones for a high-end eletronic marker, but it highly upgradable and very, very cheap.

The REX Rx is an Odyssey O2 and is still a good marker today. The R3 is an Odyssey O3, more or less a poor man's DP Fusion.

[scared of C.I.A]

its a good marker i agree. it is the same as the r1 or r2, but with the one kit installed i believe. the only problem would be if he purchased that he would definately need hpa, they wont run worth a darn off co2. but if that is in his game plan to purchase it, he could easily get a type r, and a hpa, for under his 200 dollar price range.

[Lenny17]

HPA tanks are dirt cheap nowadays - you can go to actionvillage and buy a Vibe for $150, or you can pay $180 and get it with a 48ci/3k air tank. $30 for an air tank? I don't care if it's a 'meh' tank or not, it's a fantastic price to pay for a tank to hold you over until you can buy a good carbon fiber tank.

But then again, it's all useless if you can't get it filled...

[scared of C.I.A]

yea, one thing to watch out for when buying a air tank, is that you can even get 4500 psi filled anywhere. its useless to buy anything but a cheapie if the place only fills to 3000. all i run is steelies, my local place only fills to something like 2400 psi.

[Algernon]

its a good marker i agree. it is the same as the r1 or r2, but with the one kit installed i believe. the only problem would be if he purchased that he would definately need hpa, they wont run worth a darn off co2. but if that is in his game plan to purchase it, he could easily get a type r, and a hpa, for under his 200 dollar price range.

Actually these dragun based FASOR electropneumatics work very, very well on CO2. By design, their solenoid is very similar to what you would find on a blowback electromechanical. In place of a clapper type noid electromechnically activating a sear (a la electromech spyder/clone) , you have a similar insulated noid electromechanically controling a valve that moves from 'open' to 'closed' to from a primitve electropneumatic operation. It is far more robust (and much cheaper $ componet) than a more complex 4 way humphes or parker type solenoid. You CAN put liquid CO2 through the solnoid, and it will form condesation and freeze but it will not hamper operation. At worst with a Dragun type FASOR the marker may burst a LP hose running to or from the solenoid, but the solenoid itself is highly robust. At absolute worst, a new Dragun/Wrath/Odyssey/REX solenoid on the FASOR markers is under $60 to purchase seperately and an easy install.

The advantage of the FASOR over the blowback are:

1) lower pressure operation
2) less cycling mass
3) aftermarket parts to further reduce operating pressure and cycling mass to a fraction of the factory
4) same/similar price as a blowback (because they are essentually manufatured from blowback parts, just retooled at the assembly)

Example: The end cap on a blowback has been slightly reworked to from a primitive ram assembly on a FASOR.

The hammer has been reworked to slide into a tube on the front of the end cap to work together to form an "Air Ram" operation.

The drive spring on a blowback has been retooled into a lighter and softer form that now operates in reverse to push the bolt and hammer into 'open' bolt position.

The blowback valve has been modified to operate simply as a knock open (or poppet is you will) valve without the blowback pressures, as the spring now opens bolt.

The clapper type solenoid has been modified to open and close a LP valve to control air flow into the end cap/hammer Air Ram assembly forming primative electropneumatic operation.

One additional Oring on the pneumatics vs a blowback


It's an effen brilliant operation, espesially the Mike Spurlock FASORs as they are directly derived from the Dragun blowback and share many of the same or retooled parts. The 'FASOR' operation in a Dangerous Power Fusion is not directly derived from any other marker on the market. As a result it is more expensive to manufacture at volume and is far more expensive than say, a REX RX of similar operation. The DP Fusion however, is a superior performing marker as a result of it's more demanding design.

The problem with the Ion and Vibe is that, although they have a cheap 2 way solenoid that is not much different from a FASOR, SP did not undertake and effort to insulate the solenoid coils on the marker. If liquid CO2 gets into the solenoid's pneumatics and begins to cool the solenoid to the point where condesation and frost can form, the solenoid coils will short out. This is not the case with a Dragun derivitive FASOR product such as the REX markers.

[CriticalCrysis]

im telling you, just save your money.
you'll look back and be glad you did.

[scared of C.I.A]

i havnt seen one of these markers in a long time actually though, but what i meant by dont work worth a darn was... i thought they shot very inconsistantly with co2 am i wrong? myself have never put many man hours through one myself but im sure you have. and cryticalcrisis, you want him to save his money? and buy what an ion? (chuckle)

[grrthetree1]

I had an old mongoose which lasted me for a while, but i was abusive to it. I never really took care of it and only used CO2. If you can find a diablo mongoose, and take care of it it can be a great marker.

[majicmyk]

just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in....my buddy and I both got spyder pilots...the red black and blue black fade...both had major chopping issues and the pins kept breaking on them after a while....it ended up costing more to maintain than anything.....If I were to suggest a newbie marker....I would suggest maybe an ION XE where there is BOB....easy to maintain and use....and tons of upgrades.....otherwise do what I did...I went with an Invert Mini....Co2 is just not consistant enough and really does damage to internals in the long run....unless you want to put more money into the marker with remotes and regs.....but then you could have a nice HPA...if you can try some friend's markers and see how they feel....the BIG thing I think is seeing other persons opinons on maintenance...that is a big factor to me...that's just IMHO....

[Matt Pritchard]

first of to the guy that said the slg is plastic....hes right, but the i own the new 09 basic slg, only because the ul frame is pointless, and i love the thing. solid gun so when you do upgrade to hpa, do yourself a favor and get the slg 09 basic, and btw, there is nothing wrong with a good, well built sear tripper. and if your going with a spyder, dont get a cheap pilot acs, which has no eyes and chops more than a lumber jack, go with the electra 08. it has eyes and shoots 5 bps faster, i owned one before the slg and i loved the thing, its so simple and easy to clean its an amazing marker for beginners. and for a hopper, go with the eVLution 3.

[Matt Pritchard]

btw the vibes are dodo butter, capped at 11 a second? gotta be kidding me. spend 30 more and get the electra, i bought mine for 180, if your going to paintball u gotta figure the paint and air is gonna cost alot if you plan on pballing for a long time, so do your self a favor and get nice things to sling the paint. and like the guy said about the acs' their crap, a friend has one and he hates it, worked good in the beginning, but at the last war, the velocity adjuster knob on the bottom snapped rite off....lol no lie.

[iliveforthis99]

You do know that that most tourneys these days have a BPS cap of around 11bps right? You can get people out just as easily with a gun that shoots 11bps as with a gun that can shoot 15-17bps. Paintball isn't about the amount of paint your gun can pump out.

[Matt Pritchard]

ya well i thought that the cap was 13 to 15 depending where you go, and when he is talking baout getting an acs or a vibe, i can help but to try and throw in my opinion. vibes are horrible out of the box, have you shot one? i have.

[iliveforthis99]

How are they horrible? Stock their better then an Ion? I owned an SP1 for awhile and it was one of my favorite guns in my collection. I've only held a Vibe though and from shooting and owning an SP1 i believe i have a pretty good idea about the Vibe. They come stock with a great trigger, feedneck, B.O.B., and they have a pretty decent reg for a that only costs about $150. I really can't see how you say they are horrible guns.

[Matt Pritchard]

i just hated the way that it felt, the way it shot, and the fact it has no eyes, and the way it felt kinda cheap, but i cant slam smart parts bc they do have good stuff and did you just say it was better than the ion stock? i disagree, but i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[iliveforthis99]

It doesn't need eyes, the low force bolt works perfectly fine even with 4-5 month old dimply paint. There's sever reasons it's better then the Ion. The trigger, feedneck, and even ASA are all better then what you get with the Ion. It's B.O.B. stock for a fraction of the cost of an Ion XE and it run off CO2 with many if any issues unlike the Ion. Only thing the Ion has over the Vibe is a higher capped board. That's evened out a little considering the stock Ion board sucks and can't get shoot as consistent as the Vibe. When i can pull the single finger trigger of an SP1 and get a more consistent ROF then an Ion with a stock board and a VP and later on a SAW trigger something is wrong.

[Matt Pritchard]

seem like you love the ion, not many ups for it tho is there? no there isnt, well there may be, but there isnt a vast amount like there is the ion, and the ion is only 14 dollars more for, in my opinion and a thousand others, better than the vibe. im just glad you think you can slam people on pbreview bc you think you know so much about everything.

[iliveforthis99]

09'ers :rolleyes: . Don't think i've slammed anyone so i find that comment unnecessary. I've given valid explainations of why the Vibe can be considered, you have not other then you don't like the way it feels. I happen to have an Ion and a very nice one at that and like i said i've owned an SP1 so i think i'm fairly qualified to compare the two. The fact that the Ion has millions of upgrades means nothing. It's pointless and a waste of money to upgrade an Ion, i know i've done it and it's not worth it. The Vibe already has parts that the Ion lacks thus right there it's better stock. When you get into the world of high-ends you get used to not having to dump a lot of money into a gun to make it nice. That's probably another reason why i like the Vibe over the Ion, all you need to do is put a tank and loader on it and it's ready to go. With the Ion though you almost must need to get a trigger, feedneck, and a new ASA to make it worth while, not so with the Vibe. The Vibe comes stock with a pretty decent clamping feedneck, a nice trigger, still not an on/of but the ASA is a lot more comfortable then the Ions. And again add the act the fact the Vibe is B.O.B. stock thus making it a whole lot easier to maintain the it then the Ion. The ACS system is probably comparable to the Lv 10 bolt kit for mags and really does work. Also the Vibe is completely waterproof, so no taping up the grips or worrying about diving into a puddle and getting the gun wet.

[Matt Pritchard]

i have a high end gun, well i think it is ne ways, and sorry i said that i didnt like the way that it felt, oh right no im not thats bc everyone has their own opinion, no eyes ****ty barrel bad regulator is enough for me not to like it. the ion is 14 dollars more dude, why do you pick the vibe over it. its enough argueing between the two of us, ive shot the vibe and just dont like it, and you have to and do like it, its just the differences we have. my bad for ****in w. u

[Lenny17]

the ion is 14 dollars more dude
I'm curious as to where you are buying your paintball guns, either someone is overcharging for the vibe and SP-1, or they are having a fire sale on ions. At actionvillage.com:

Ion: $199.95
Vibe: $149.95
SP-1: $174.95

So the vibe is $50 cheaper, and the SP-1 is $25 cheaper. And I know when I was buying my first equipment, $25-$50 made a lot of difference.

[iliveforthis99]

i have a high end gun, well i think it is ne ways, An SLG is not a high-end. and sorry i said that i didnt like the way that it felt, oh right no im not thats bc everyone has their own opinion I believe i said that was your only valid reason, i was not bashing you for it., no eyes Again it does matter if it doesn't have eyes. ****ty barrel Debatable. But most budget guns have sucky stock barrels. bad regulator The reg is actually pretty good from what i've seen, even with CO2 is was pretty decent. is enough for me not to like it. the ion is 14 dollars more dude, why do you pick the vibe over it Because it offers more for less. To make an Ion decent you're going to be seeing a $164 price jump past $200.. its enough argueing between the two of us, ive shot the vibe and just dont like it, and you have to and do like it, its just the differences we have. my bad for ****in w. u

[Audiotech11]

I am very new at paintball but i found a spyder RT for 120 and also purchased a 14" CP barrel. played woodsball with it this past weekend and loved it. This marker took a little getting used to because i have never used the rocking trigger before. this is in case you are looking at the lower end of the spectrum. :D

[di$TOrTed]

I'm curious as to where you are buying your paintball guns, either someone is overcharging for the vibe and SP-1, or they are having a fire sale on ions. At actionvillage.com:

Ion: $199.95
Vibe: $149.95
SP-1: $174.95

So the vibe is $50 cheaper, and the SP-1 is $25 cheaper. And I know when I was buying my first equipment, $25-$50 made a lot of difference.

Ion XEs are $225 and the original Ion is $165 on many common pb sites, such as actionvillage, punisherspb, etc.

[Lenny17]

D'oh - my bad. I went to actionvillage, and most of the Ions listed are $200. I didn't realize that they were the Redz Ions, and that the basic Ion (listed all the way at the bottom) is only $165.

Open mouth, insert foot. :)

Although I have to wonder - why is Smart Parts competing with themselves? With such a short price point between them, why don't they just sell one or the other?

[di$TOrTed]

D'oh - my bad. I went to actionvillage, and most of the Ions listed are $200. I didn't realize that they were the Redz Ions, and that the basic Ion (listed all the way at the bottom) is only $165.

Open mouth, insert foot. :)

Although I have to wonder - why is Smart Parts competing with themselves? With such a short price point between them, why don't they just sell one or the other?

I have often wondered the same thing. I can see the difference between the Ion XE and Vibe as they try to market the XE as being better, as for the original ion, i'm sure it isn't being produced anymore but SP probably still has massive quantities of it stock piled so they set it at $165 and hopes they can sell off the rest.

[Matt Pritchard]

coming from using spyders and tippmanns i think the slg is high end lol. so its a big jump for me. im not about to spend 1000 dollars on a pb gun unless i were pro.

[di$TOrTed]

coming from using spyders and tippmanns i think the slg is high end lol. so its a big jump for me. im not about to spend 1000 dollars on a pb gun unless i were pro.

That's the way to go. To me the small performance difference isn't worth the big price difference.

[iliveforthis99]

While i would never ever call the SLG a high-end (it's more low/mid-end'ish really) i do have to agree on the $1000 gun thing. When i was still playing i owned a few high-ends and could tell the difference in performance and quality to that of like say an Ion. However those high-ends were used and for the most part used, which though doesn't make them any less of a performer. It just goes to show that you don't need to spend $500+ for a "new" high-end, there are plenty of good deals out there for the sweet oldies. If i still had any interest in paintball i wouldn't mind dropping the cash for Vice, Droid, or RX Cyborg. They still old that underdog name to me which i had gotten to like shortly before i left paintball. Past those though i'd still be sticking to the old stuff like cockers, classic Matrix, and i'd probably would have gotten a pump as well.

[Matt Pritchard]

so you dont play ne more? why not? if you dont mind me asking. and is there a difference between the slg basic and the slg ul, bc i culdnt find ne.

[iliveforthis99]

Nope i'm almost completely done with paintball, only ties to it that i have is me coming here. I quit mainly due to money, i got laid off last summer then started going to college and couldn't find the time or money to play. Finding airsoft didn't help me either lol, i can now play and shoot people for an insanely less amount of money then i could in paintball. The fact that a lot of my younger friends can afford to play it too is also something i didn't have in paintball. I do miss it sometimes though.

The biggest and maybe only difference with the 09 SLG and the UL is the UL frame. The board may also be different (shape wise) as well since if i remember right UL style boards have always been so in the past. For an extra $100 i don't consider the UL SLG worth it. I love UL frames and all but with the one on the SLG being plastic that's to much of a risk of the frame snapping IMO.

[di$TOrTed]

Yup. UL frame, different board, smaller noid. Different body milling. Performance-wise its basically the same gun.

[Matt Pritchard]

well thats what i thought, which is why i picked the basic, think its a great gun for 200. think ull get back into pball ilft99? and do you have ne old markers to sell? and dont think im dumb for asking, but whats so wrong with a sear tripper? it seems like everyone hates them because spyders are sear trippers, whats the diff in a sear tripper and a true electro pnumatic.

[iliveforthis99]

Probably won't since i've gotten to really like airsoft now. I thought i would get back to it once i get another job but i doubt it. I've already sold off most of my collection of markers sorry. All i have left is a semi functional 98c and my "super" Ion which i'm keeping for the off chance i get an inkling to a play a game or two in the years to come.

There's nothing really wrong with sear trippers but outside of like a cocker or a mag they're just not all that "nice".

[Algernon]

yup the niceness is very low on the SLG. performance and eurgonomics are very good, but the niceness is very lacking with that plastic frame and clacking sear tripping solenoid. i much rather shoot and older ultra high end (at the time) such as an angel LCD, force feeding it paint to eliminate chops. i play when i can these days and i play purely for fun. i like to have a marker some niceness, some old school rep and bulk.

SP actually has the single best product lineup on the face of the planet from a marketing, and engineering stand point.

They have gone to 'spool valve' markers of one fashion or another through their product line, from top to bottom. I can only imagine how simple it is for the same machines to crank out EOS, ION, Shocker and LUXE while their injecting molding plastic machines (outsourced?) crank out Vibe, SP-1, SP-8 and ion peices.

The ion was a smash hit and has spawned ultra cheap derivitives to cover both the generic play/speedball and the woodball/milsim play with the SP-1 and vibe common platform at a nearly untouchable price bracket (not to mention highly profitable) for the performance at $140-$170.

The ephi' and now EOS are an attempt to use the ION platform to bridge the gap between the ION and Shocker by producing a 'nicer uped ION'. The EOS is hardly a smash hit but it does boost sales by offering an inflated price for a what is essentually a very, very nice ION. EOS are nice. Very worth the money from what i've palmed and played with.

Not fan of new shockers as their price is over inflated IMO for as simple a marker as they are. Big fan of used shocker btw, simple good performance at a good price used. Henry ford could learn a thing or two from the guys over at SP.

The 05 ION is still around in large numbers and is often sold new as '09' alongside the ION Xe at a cheaper price. Bringing back the Ford illustration, there are still very large number of 99-05 Taurus out there being sold as new in 09 alongside the Volvo s80 based 09 Taurus at a fraction of the price because Ford cranked them out in huge numbers to drop price and create a chash cow. There is a surplus of the things out there so they are sold at a reduced price. This is true with the 05 type ION and won't go away for a few more years.

[Matt Pritchard]

you just said the slg isnt nice? have you shot one? you cant even hear the "clacking" when your firing ne ways, and ya it is all plastic but good thing dye is so good with customer service. so ilft99, ive played airsoft too, but do you play in doors? or can you buy a nice enough gun to get some distance outside, bc thats what i like about pball, is the fast pace to it and the distance you can get from each other and still hit ppl....if that makes sense.

[di$TOrTed]

I wouldn't call the SLG nice either, but it is a lot of gun for the money, assuming you get one that works well. Dye/Proto seems to have cut corners when making them. The quality control is good, they just come with parts that weren't machined right. The detents, bolts, and now I have been hearing things about sear problems right out of the box. But they do shoot really smooth all things considered it being a sear tripper.

[iliveforthis99]

you just said the slg isnt nice? have you shot one? you cant even hear the "clacking" when your firing ne ways, and ya it is all plastic but good thing dye is so good with customer service. so ilft99, ive played airsoft too, but do you play in doors? or can you buy a nice enough gun to get some distance outside, bc thats what i like about pball, is the fast pace to it and the distance you can get from each other and still hit ppl....if that makes sense.It's like what an Ion used to be when it first came out. It offers pretty good performance for the price with high-end like features. But like it's been proven with the Ion just because it appears to work like a high-end it doesn't and will never be a high-end. When you buy a high-end you're not only getting performance and features but you're getting a well designed and refined gun that is at the top of quality and workmanship. Guns like the SLG, Ion, PMR, DP guns, etc perform well for the price but that's about it. You seem to really like your SLG, that's fine and more power to ya for it. All that really matters is that you have fun playing?

I play both. My yard is big enough to play in and i have access to some woods alongside it to play in. The indoor place is more like a small two story house and a large garage across from it. My main gun is an M4 which has about pinpoint accuracy in the 150-200 feet range. My other nice one (L85A1) will rival any paintball gun in terms of speed. Neither gun is what you'd find at a Wal-Mart or Sports Authority. Once you get into the "real" airsoft scene it gets pretty hardcore, more so then paintball i'd say.

[Algernon]

you just said the slg isnt nice? have you shot one? you cant even hear the "clacking" when your firing ne ways, and ya it is all plastic but good thing dye is so good with customer service. so ilft99, ive played airsoft too, but do you play in doors? or can you buy a nice enough gun to get some distance outside, bc thats what i like about pball, is the fast pace to it and the distance you can get from each other and still hit ppl....if that makes sense.


Yes I owned one for a little while. I bought it to see what 145psi and low cyling mass can do and/if it was a substantial improvement over the stacked tube 180+psi ram driven markers (angels, timmy ect) I have had experience with prior to the SLG purchase. The SLG wasn't much smoother than an ION, and was somewhat of a letdown. I was still impressed and willl take 145psi and a single light weight cycling mass in my operating system over anything with a higher pressures and more mass, but I found it to be less important than say, the construction materials of my marker and fit and finish. I was sick and tired of 'flat' or 'matt' finishes, plastic grip frames and electromechanical sear trippers long before I bought the SLG.

I thought maybe I could grow to accept plastic frames, sear tripping and flat black should the SLG prove to be a substaintial improvement over an ION, older angel ect. It wasn't so I traded it for an AM Diadem ITS + tank and gear. I don't like grasping a plastic frame in my hand. I do not like feeling the *tap* of the electromechanical solenoid striking the sear through a plasting grip frame. I do not like flat finishes in anno or powder coating. I do not like plactic triggers, triggers with a spring return (in place of magnetic) nor do I like triggers that are difficult/impossible to adjust to my liking (lots of over travel and zero pre-travel). Proto rails are much better markers as they offer more niceness and upgrades than the SLG for not a whole lot more $.

[Matt Pritchard]

i wanted a rail, but all i culd find them for was like 450. and ya i guess im *** for the slg, kinda sways my judgement when it comes to comparisons of things, which isnt a good thing. and ya i really dont like the fact that its plastic, but i guess you get what you pay for. i was also looking into the mini, and figured the rail or the mini would b my next, so what do you think about the 2?

[iliveforthis99]

Performance wise you probably won't see much of a difference between the PMR and Mini. They really come down to which feels best. Personally i'm against the idea of going from one mid-end gun to another. I'd either get one of the cheaper high-ends like the Protege or something then another mid-end. It's people who have a Spyder and want to "upgrade" to one of the new ones when there's hardly any difference between them.

[Matt Pritchard]

so you would suggest the protege?

[banderson]

I never really liked the ION or the SLG, no offense. They are still decent markers. With the ION I always felt like I was going to break it. I switched to a PM5 about 5 years back and haven't looked back since. And it was only $290 with a Halo and a HPA tank so I was happy.

Edit: I wouldn't suggest the "D2". There is better out there for the same price. Ya can get used Timmies for that price and they are alot better.

[iliveforthis99]

The Protege is a gen5 timmy, are you thinking of the D2? Gen5 timmys so far are the best timmys ever and all the Protege really is is a less sexy Vice. For the price you can't do much better, i'd personally take a Protege over like an 09 Ego.

[banderson]

LoL fixed, yeah I was thinking the Defiant. Guess the name Protege just got mixed in there some how.

[Matt Pritchard]

well i wont be buying a new gun soon seing as i spend all my money on pballs n i just bought the slg so ill wait. and just wondering, does smart parts make the luxe?

[di$TOrTed]

DLX is owned/operated/created by smart parts, and i'm 99% certain the luxe is made in the same factory as all the other SP markers

[iliveforthis99]

Yeah SP = DLX. And all the Luxe is is a over hyped up Shocker with no innovative design other the talking board part which is just simply stupid.

[Algernon]

well i wont be buying a new gun soon seing as i spend all my money on pballs n i just bought the slg so ill wait. and just wondering, does smart parts make the luxe?


The SLG is not bad. Get a good aluminum roller trigger a spring or magnetic trigger return mod and it'll rip like any other proto/dye product.

[Matt Pritchard]

seeing as this is a good place to get some response from ppl who know what the h e ll what their doing, i have a question. we where shooting my gfs ion the today and all the sudden when i started to fire rapidly the balls started to drop off really bad, like it wasnt getting enough air, i changed the dwell settings....i think, and i have turned up the velocity. but seeing as the ion has horrible instructions with it i have no idea half the crap the book says, its not explained very well at all. help plz

[iliveforthis99]

Try a new battery first and if it continues clean and grease the reg.

[Matt Pritchard]

the battery is brand new and so is the gun

[iliveforthis99]

Still try to clean the reg, most of the time that's the problem. You may also need to check the noid but i'd lube the reg first. What is the dwell set to? If it doesn't have a QEV it should be set around 45-52 blinks if it's a stock board. Also what type of air was being used, HP or LP?

[di$TOrTed]

Still take apart, clean, and regrease the reg. I have heard reports of the regs not working too well from the factory, but once regreased and broken in the Ion reg is fairly decent.

Also, if it is brand new, don't use the battery that came in the box. Go to the store and buy a fresh, name-brand 9v and try that.

[Matt Pritchard]

its hp ilft99 and it really sucks that i have to take the reg apart, ill try that, thanks

[Matt Pritchard]

ill let u know if it doesnt work lol

[Matt Pritchard]

it was the dwell

[Matt Pritchard]

iliveforthis99 help me find a cheaper drop forward/asa combo for an ion plz

[iliveforthis99]

Don't bother with a drop, anything bigger then a mini is a bad idea. Your best bet would to look into NDZ ASA's since most of them come with a rail already and aren't to expensive.

[Matt Pritchard]

well c the thing is, is that its for my gf, the tanks make it kinda back heavy for her, and i wanna make it more stable.

[iliveforthis99]

Then get a very small one. Drops mess up your profile while leaning out which is why no one really uses them anymore unless they have to.

[Matt Pritchard]

still help me find one

[Lenny17]

Don't bother with a drop, anything bigger then a mini is a bad idea. Your best bet would to look into NDZ ASA's since most of them come with a rail already and aren't to expensive.

still help me find one

Yahoo (or Google) is your friend, do a search for 'NDZ ASA' or 'New Designz ASA', you'll be surprised what you can find.

Also, have you considered a remote? It'll get the tank off the marker and onto her back, which might be more comfortable.

[Matt Pritchard]

Lenny ur a freaking genius, i havnt thought about that, but thatl make it much easier.

[Matt Pritchard]

i need a cheap harness

[iliveforthis99]

Only thing with remotes though is that with a stock on the gun they throw the balance way off. Without the tank on the back the gun will become very front heavy with the loader on it.