Tippmann X7 vs Smart Parts SP8

[FALCONSEYE]

I am in the market for a marker. Never thought about Smart Parts SP8 until a coworker mentioned that he loves his. I have been reading some comparisons between these two but I still don't have a clear idea of which one is the best. So far, I know that Smart Parts SP8 has a lower operating psi. Is this good or bad? Also, some ppl in these forums called Smart Parts evil which I don't get. I know Smart Parts SP8 has some cool electronics. What else should I be looking for?

Btw, I will need a tank, and a remote cord as well. Don't want to spend in excess of $550-$600.

I appreciate any help/input you may provide. thanks.

[Lenny17]

Smart Parts pulled some shady business practices that chased a couple people out of paintball. Back in the day the paintball industry was very open about what they were doing development wise, it was better for the sport. Then SP came in, gobbled up a few patents, and put some smaller companies (like ICD) out of business. Here is a link to some other SP stuff: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2397602&page=43

I guess the first question is this - do you care about needing batteries? If you really don't want to have to worry about electronics, then buy an A-5 with an R/T, it's the only all-mechanical marker out there. The X-7 and A-5 are basically the same thing, so I tend to recommend the A-5 over it's pricier cousin.

But other than that, the SP-8 is generally better. It's electropneumatic, which means it'll be more consistent, and in the end more accurate. The Tippmann markers are still mechanical blowbacks, which will never compare to the smoothness of a good ep marker.

That being said, you are clearly looking for something that looks real first, and performs second. So get what makes you happy.

[FALCONSEYE]

I wouldn't say that looks first than performance second. To my experience, once things started to get complicated they started to break easier. Does ep marker mean electropneumatic? I never used any of these markers but when I saw some videos on youtube, I gotta say it's pretty much the same thing. Because of the aerodynamics/gravity. The balls drop considerably and reduce your effective range. Speaking of that, what would you say these guns' effective range? (i.e. from 5ft. i can shoot thru a tire.)

[FALCONSEYE]

what is HPA?

[Coenen]

EP = Electro Pneumatic.
HPA = High Pressure Air.
The average paintball gun shooting at 285-300FPS(feet per second) can be pretty accurate out to about 150ft or so, but you'll still be putting a good bit of arc on the ball when you shoot.

This is what I'm seeing in this thread; big heavy impractical marker A vs big heavy impractical marker B. I understand the desire for aesthetic realism, but frankly I think it's silly. Most of the time a mil-sim marker is a lower end marker with a bunch of crap put on it and a price increase over the base marker.

The SP-8 is pretty much a big bulky Ion. The X-7 is pretty much a big bulky A-5. Prices: new Ion $165, new SP-8 $275; new X-7 $299, new A-5 $179. See what I mean? Internally the Ion and SP-8 are pretty much identical. Same with the two Tippmann guns, there's no increase in performance between them, just price and bulk.

If you want a mil-sim gun, as much as I dislike them the Smart Parts SP1 is a good choice. It's not blazing fast, and it's not an exact replica of an assault rifle, but the performance for price is pretty solid...or you could get the Smart Parts Vibe, same gun as the SP1 internally...different look, lower price.

If I didn't care about paintball politics and I had to put together a package for a beginner I'd probably go something like this;
$150 Smart Parts Vibe Marker
$30 12-14" J&J Ceramic Barrel
$16(each) 16 ounce CO2 tank, maybe two if you don't have easy access to refills
$60 V-Force Profiler mask, or comparable, a good mask is very important.
$30 Empire React pack 3+6
$50 VL Eye Force Loader, I'd rather have a 12 Volt Revvy, but those are getting hard to find.
$50 Pods, Squeegee/Swabs batteries, other incidentals

Total cost there is about $400 + Shipping, and you'll have a nice little set up to go play ball with and a few bucks left over to boot. That's just my take on it though.

[Lenny17]

If looks aren't that important, then there are a world of decent markers out there. As Coenen pointed out, the SP-8 and X-7 are both more 'realistic' and more expensive versions of other markers. So I figured that was what you are looking for.

I would like to work to dispel a myth though - ep markers are NOT more complicated than mechanical markers. I have two, and stripping them for a good cleaning couldn't be any easier - just pull the bolt out. In fact, they tend to be quieter, more efficient, and more consistent, because rather than depending on springs and such, the action is run off of an electronically controlled solenoid.

Although, while we are debunking myths, I suppose another one worth mentioning - just because you play in the woods doesn't mean you need a 'tactical' marker. My local field tends to be split 50/50 - half the people are using Tippmanns, but the other half are using what many consider to be 'speedball' guns, myself included. I've used my US-5 (a Tippy style marker), but definitely prefer using my other markers, like my cocker or BKO (or my recently acquired Defiant 2). Granted, it's all preference, some people would rather have that rifle-style marker, and that's cool. It just isn't necessary.

[FALCONSEYE]

great information, thank you. I am leaning towards sp8. I like the milsim guns. Once I put a hopper, stock, barrel kit, tank, etc. it looks like I will spend around $500. Not bad since I will probably keep this for 7-8 years. One guy mentioned, it's a real PITA to clean SP8 on the field. Also, I have been looking at these hoppers:

Huh, i have to have 2 more posts to include a link...


What do you think is better? Or do you have something else in mind without spending $200.

Also, some ppl were saying it's better to HPA instead of CO2. Some of these tanks are quite expensive. If I get into a N2 tank, what would you recommend?

thanks again.

[Coenen]

Which two are you considering? They have names, we'll probably recognize them.

7 or 8 years is a long time in paintball, I'd almost be willing to guarantee that you won't use whatever it is that you buy for 8 years.

If I were in your position I'd consider the SP-1 with the Blackheart upgrade and then the stock and all of that other business. You'll have the eyes, modes, adjustability, and ease of maintenance. Also, it'll be less huge.

HPA tanks, depends again on the availability of fills and how much you're going to be shooting. A good middle of the road size tank is the 68cubic inch 4500psi tank, a 68/45 in paintball slang.

Crossfire is pretty much finest tank currently on the market. They're a bit expensive, but overall excellent.

[FALCONSEYE]

So, far I have halo, empire reloader b, and evolution 3. I think that belt driven hoppers should have problems sooner or later. Last time I was there, I shot over 300 paintballs.

[FALCONSEYE]

My post started with one thing and I am all over the place now. Sorry about that. Now, Coenen, I looked at the pricing of the circuitry upgrade and I realized it's almost the same. s8:$275 and s1+upg:$249. Given this, I will go with s8.

This looks sweet: http://www.pbreview.com/productpics/?product=4058&photo=16608

[PistolPete93]

Great choice. outsourcing...

[Coenen]

I'd take a look at the new Invert Too loader if I were you. It's basically a less expensive version of the Halo-B. Otherwise I'd go with either the Halo-B or Reloader B. If you can afford to spring for top end, a Rotor or Prophecy are strong choices as well. I used an Evlution (Eggy) for a while, I didn't like it at all, center of gravity was weird, loading was weird, and frankly it wasn't that fast even with the alleged "23BPS" Z-board or whichever one is supposed to be the fast one. That loader struggled to make it to the 15BPS ROF cap of the time, I borrowed a buddy's Halo at practice one day and never looked back.

In my opinion the Halo-B loaders and their derivatives; Reloader B, Magna, Prophecy, Invert Too are the best loaders out there. There are plenty of folks out there who believe otherwise, but that's up to them. The design is tried, tested and true. Yes, the parts will eventually wear out, that happens to everything after a while, but the after market support out there is massive.

I suggested the SP-1 + Blackheart because it would have the ease of maintenance you seem to be concerned about. You could pop off the stock and be able to pull the whole guts of the marker right out of the back. Much less complex than the breakdown on the SP-8. Also you can run the SP-1 on CO2...as opposed to the SP-8 which pretty much needs HPA if you're expecting top performance. The Blackheart upgrade also includes the Blackheart board which features increased functionality and adjustment parameters over the stock Ion board that is in the SP-8.

Basically it gives you more gun for less money, the Blackheart board alone would be another $100 on top of the cost of your SP-8. Leaving the price gap between the two about the same.

...and we haven't even talked about the idea of buying used yet!

[ems]

u didn't mention that co2 can turn your gun in to a popscile

[FALCONSEYE]

Yes, I will be buying an N2 tank.

[FALCONSEYE]

http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/tippmann-ak47-complete-with-marker-package-p-5180.html

come on...

[Coenen]

Finally, a paintball gun that really looks solid enough to give some one a good butt stroke with before I bayonet them. You can't wipe a concussion!

Some people are into that kind of deal. At least it looks pretty OK, most mil-sim 98C's end up looking crappy. Something about trying to get a mag well and magazine that covers or incorporates the front grip nicely.

When it comes down to it though, that's still a $140 gun under there. For the $450 they're asking for the whole deal you can buy a used '06 Ego. I KNOW you can get used gen3 and 4 Timmies for WAY less than that gun is priced. Hell, for the same $140 that they're selling just the 98C for you could probably pick up a fat body Matrix.

Paintball resale, making buyers happy, and leaving sellers looking for the lube.

[Corrupted355]

Doesn't the SP-8 weigh like forty pounds? Just hit your opponent with that monster. The last time I picked up one of those things, I regretted not stretching before the workout that lifting it entailed.

[bvdave]

id go tippmann over smartparts personally, much less problems in the longrun and much more upgradable. im a definante milsim guy and to me the sport is about more then just winning. if all you care about is winning then go buy a smaller space gun (speedball style gun) that performs better out of the box is smaller light etc. but if your like me where you dont care if you win or loose as long as you have fun, and you think it will be a lot more fun to play with a decked out milsim realistic looking marker with some weight to it, then by all means get a Tippmann (or a bt) they shoot well, no not as well as an ego or a mini but they shoot good nonetheless and they are tanks, you can beat on them all day long and keep going for more.

if you want the best of both worlds its a bit more pricy but look at the TM7, its basically a more efficent mini in a milsim shell, i absolutly love mine and it shoots like high end markers but has a nice milsim look to it, and with enough mods you get the weight back too (stock its pretty light)

in the end, for most people anyways.. its about fun. not winning, if it wasnt there would be no tippmann sports.

[FALCONSEYE]

Coenen, I have no clue what does guns are. bvdave, I was reading your other post in Coenen's for sale section. After doing more research, it looks like many ppl are not satisfied with X-7. Also, sp-8 sounds to be hard to maintain. I know I am going back and forth, but I think tippmann a-5 might be a better gun after all. Reviewers over here gave it a 9.2 / 10. Hmmm.

Even a tippmann a-5 with customized options is still around $450. Could you still add a nice hopper? I would like to add a remote line and an N2 tank as well. Need to purchase something soon cuz I am running out of time.

[Lenny17]

Egos and Intimidators (Timmys) are 'speedball' guns, they are electropneumatic markers that focus on performance. Coenen's prime point is that the AK you linked to is $450, and you are paying that much for a $140 gun with some kit slapped on. You could take that same $450 and buy a nice high-end ep, or even the TM7 like bvdave recommended. There are much better markers out there for the money.

Also, take the reviews here with a grain of salt. I tend to read through a lot of them before I ever decide if the rating means anything. One of the problems is that you run into people that think Tippmanns are paintball gods, and give the marker a 10/10 without having ever fired another marker. I know I thought my US-5 was a solid 8 or 9 until I fired other markers.

[ems]

same thing with my 98 i was having a good time in till they let me use a proto then i learned my 98 was crap compared to a proto

[Coenen]

Thanks for the translation Lenny, you got it about spot on. With a gun like that RAP4 AK-M98 you're paying $450 for $140 worth of performance.

What's the rush man? Is the world going to end after this weekend? You're talking about buying one marker to commit to this game for the better part of a decade...and there's a lot more out there than just the few guns we've discussed. Even if you have to rent or borrow a gun for this weekend, or pass on playing all together, to get this right...it'd probably be for the better.

It also gives you a chance to go to the field or shop and actually see, hold, and potentially shoot some of these markers yourself so that you can understand some of the differences between them. If you ask nicely most players are happy to show off their gear and let you take a pot shot or two before a game or at the chrono-range. Just make sure that if it's more than a couple of shots you're giving them some paint to make up for what you shot!

Just slow it down and make sure that you are making a fully informed decision on gear that you will be able to live with for the long term. Resale on paintball gear is crap, if you spend $500 on stuff you end up not liking you're not going to be able to sell it off and expect to get that money back, and that's the truth.

The A-5 and X-7 both have the Cyclone feed system, which is a built in force feed loader that runs using blowback gas from the marker. No fancy electronic loader required. The X-7 is pretty much an A-5 only with a bunch of mil-sim stuff bolted on it. There is no appreciable performance difference between the two, none, the only differences are cosmetic...and the price. That's why a lot of people are disappointed with them, they don't offer any additional benefit to go along with the additional cost.

[Corrupted355]

If you're really looking to get into the whole Milsim look while still maintaining excellent performance, I'd personally wait until the new BT TM-15 comes out. From what I can tell, its going to be a TM-7 in an AR-15 style body. And the TM-7 is basically a Mini in a plastic body. And the new Minis shoot pretty nice.

[FALCONSEYE]

Lenny, The BT TM7 is around $375 - $450. I am not sure if you can accessorize it to look like the 98c Kali. Now that I have seen $140 worth $450 milsim markers, I am totally into them. Looking at BT TM7's specs, it doesn't sound like it has the electronics that an SP8 has. What is the advantage of having an internal airline operation?

Coenen, I agree with your points. Same reason why one would pay $140k for a Porsche 911 Turbo when you can get a Nissan GT-R for the half price. (Pimp my marker, yeah!) In ideal world, I would test drive 5-6 different markers before even making a decision. It is not the situation in my case. Only couple ppl I know have markers, one 98c and one something spyder(?)

I am for sure X7, 98c and most likely SP8 are no longer in my buying list. I am confused even more with other options in $500 range. (has to have the milsim coolness) :crazy:

[Coenen]

The TM-7 is more or less the same concept as the SP-8. The SP-8 is basically an Ion in a mil-sim body. The TM-7 is basically in Invert Mini in a mil-sim body.

Both are electronically controlled, although their method of operation during the firing cycle is different. I'll skip confusing you with that. Suffice to say the TM-7 will be a tad bit more efficient among other things. In terms of software, the TM-7 is going to have an edge, it is a newer gun all around and generally the newer something is the more bells and whistles it's going to have on the circuit board.

The internal airline thing seems to be the "new cool" in paintball guns, the Mini, Luxe, and new Marq Victory have all featured internally plumbed designs. You're not necessarily familiar with those guns, but that's OK for now. The deal is that in the last year it's become popular to produce markers that have no external airlines or fittings that can get damaged, blow off, get caught on stuff, or leak. There was never a huge issue with those things in the first place, but hey, far be it from me to get in the way of technological advancement.

Are there no fields or shops in your area? The map on the front page of the site is pretty handy for figuring out what's around you paintball wise. This brings up another question, if you don't have a field/shop facility around you, where are you going for your CO2 fills, and is HPA really an option for you?

[Lenny17]

Actual ep mil-sim markers is still a pretty small market - you only have a few options. There is the Bob Long M-Tac, which runs around $950, the SP-8, which runs around $275, the TM-7 which is $400, and the soon-to-be-released TM-15, which will probably be around the same as the TM-7.

Other than those 4 options (I think, I'm not 100% sure on that), all of your other markers are electrically operated blowbacks, which just aren't the same.

[FALCONSEYE]

I have seen couple shops. We are going to this field over the weekend:
http://www.blitzpaintball.net/content/view/25/36/

sweet, isn't it? They are renting some nice markers. Hopefully, that will give me an idea. I guess I will need to go to these paintball arenas to have the tanks refilled.

I was pulling ghost recon *xbox game* moves when I played last year. It's a great work-out too. Roll all over the place. I am more like a run and gun vs some campers I saw.

You can pre-order TM-15 for around $475.

[Corrupted355]

You also don't want to forget about the Smart Parts SP-1 Blackheart. It may not be able to run head to head with some of the mid-end (isn't that an oxymoron?) guns like the TM-7, but it's going to be very easy on your wallet, while still doing a pretty bang-up job of ripping up the field.

If I were looking for a Milsim marker in the $500 range, I'd be waiting right now for the TM-15. I might not buy it, but I'd definitely want to at least hold it before I bought something else, just in case it's incredible.

[FALCONSEYE]

I did forget about SP1 as well. Is anybody familiar with Tiberius Arms T9?

[FALCONSEYE]

actually, sp1 doesn't sound bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6NbIPQLxWY&feature=channel_page

[Coenen]

actually, sp1 doesn't sound bad.*sigh* ...you're welcome.

[FALCONSEYE]

So, I ended up renting a "high-end marker" called Ego at blitz paintball. (blitzpaintball.net). To me, it wasn't anything spectacular. It kept turning itself off in the middle of the battle causing a ton of frustration. Anyone beyond 12-15 meters, there is no way I could get a straight shot. If I see somebody beyond this distance, I had to shoot a projectile each time hoping i might get a hit. Clearly, this marker fails for a woodsball scenario. I had to keep charging. It was a great work-out though...

[Coenen]

No offense, but you seem to really have a nasty habit of jumping to conclusions about stuff. One experience with something is rarely ever a true measure of what it's like.

The problem with that Ego was that you were renting it. A rented gun is almost never going to give you the performance that it's capable of, mostly because they get used by people who treat them like dirt, and there's no incentive for the field staff to really keep them in top shape. Afterall, they don't have to use them.

I owned an '06 Ego since Dec. '06 until it got stolen a couple weeks ago. I used it in almost every conceivable paintball situation; woodsball, speedball, airball, tournaments, rec-ball. Not only was it almost bulletproof maintenance wise it was a killing machine of a marker, fast, accurate, consistent...just about everything you could want. There is a reason that they have built up a reputation as an excellent marker, mostly it's because they are. With proper care given to them they are some of the finest markers that money can buy. Believe it.

With regards to woodsball guns vs speedball guns, the idea of situationally specific markers is almost a complete fallacy. My Ego didn't stop shooting straight when I walked off the airball field and into the woods. My Matrix didn't suddenly start leaking just because we were playing a scenario instead of X-ball. Top end markers are top end for a reason, they are engineered specifically to stand up to the hardest styles of play and the most demanding players. In the right hands they will excel regardless of the situation.

Sorry if it seems like I jumped down your throat a bit there.

[Lenny17]

Yeah, one bad experience with a rental gun does not justify the entire idea. Especially since it sounds like you had one with a bad board or battery, which will severely impact the markers performance.

I have a 'woodsball' marker, and all it does is collect dust, whether I'm playing in the woods or not.

[FALCONSEYE]

I agree that it was probably an abused marker. Perhaps the board/battery were bad. Maybe the barrel wasn't good either. It was a bad experience. New ones are around $1200. (Wish I could get a chance to shoot one.)
It used way too much HPA. I probably shot around 1600 paintballs, and had to refill the tank 3 times.

[ems]

well also what kinda paint were you useing while shooting the ego cause bad paint don't fly right

[Da'dtou-di]

With regards to woodsball guns vs speedball guns, the idea of situationally specific markers is almost a complete fallacy.... Top end markers are top end for a reason, they are engineered specifically to stand up to the hardest styles of play and the most demanding players.

Agreed! "Speedball" guns make great sense for woodsball, because they're light, have a high rate of fire, excellent consistency, etc., etc. The mil-sim guns look cool but that look comes at the cost of cost ($$$) and weight.

Ultimately, if you're looking for a mil-sim gun the SP1 blackheart is the best gun out there IMO. You get the low force bolt (google it, there's videos of people sticking their tongues in the breech), eyes(bombtastic), a decent board(self explanitroy), and it has a regulator (more consistent pressure means greater accuracy).

If you don't care much about the look, I'd get the Vibe blackheart or Proto SLG, and save the extra cash.

[Coenen]

I agree that it was probably an abused marker. Perhaps the board/battery were bad. Maybe the barrel wasn't good either. It was a bad experience. New ones are around $1200. (Wish I could get a chance to shoot one.)
It used way too much HPA. I probably shot around 1600 paintballs, and had to refill the tank 3 times.Even if it was a small tank like a 47/3k that's ridiculous. There was something bad wrong with that gun. I used to be able to get a hopper an 4-5 pods out of my Ego with a 45/45 tank fairly easily.

Like I said man, if you go to the field and meet someone with a marker you're interested in, just introduce yourself, tell them your situation and ask nicely if you can take a few shots with their gun. Even if it's just a couple pot shots at the chrono-range you'll be able to get a general idea of how the marker feels and fires for you. Paintball players L-O-V-E talking about their kit and showing it off. Just be courteous and respectful and you'll pretty much be able to try out any marker at the field. It works especially well if you have a pod of paint handy to replace what you've shot at the range.

I'm still predicting that you'll likely end up with an SP-1 Blackheart as well, it seems to really be most in line with what your'e looking for and the price range you're considering.

Tongue in the breech has so been done though! Yet another thing that Smart Parts has usurped from AGD :P

[Da'dtou-di]

Tongue in the breech has so been done though! Yet another thing that Smart Parts has usurped from AGD :P

Haha, not trying to steal Tom Kaye's thunder! I was just making a point.

[FALCONSEYE]

Ended up getting an SP-1 Blackheart. Please check out Smart Parts SP-1 forum for my setup and send your input. thanks

[sarduy]

i like tippmann over SP i have owned both and i think tippmann is a better way to go. i would recommend something like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300339786516

[Corrupted355]

You would recommend something like that because you're the one selling it. The matter at hand appears to have been settled. Coenen, can we have some closure for the tragic death of this topic?

[Coenen]

i like tippmann over SP i have owned both and i think tippmann is a better way to go. i would recommend something like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300339786516Going to link him to your own gun? Really? That's just bad style in my opinion.

I think it's time for this thread to go as well. Although I do find it funny that the first mention of what the guy went with was in post #8, which was followed by 30-something posts of silliness. *sigh*