Expansion Chambers

[JavaJunkie686]

This may be a stupid question...but considering I'm a newbie, (i am still in the process of buying my first gun), I'd like to know what an expansion chamber does for the gun.

Thanks.

[Richy_C]

it helps convert the liquid CO2 inside of your tank to a gas CO2, liquid CO2 is bad fur ur goon. I reccomend a PMI pure energy regulator over an expansion chamber, but if you get a regulator, make sure you have a ANTI siphion tube in your tank, that helps keep liquid out

[PaintballWarehouse]

A Reg and Expansion Chamber have 2 totally different functions. The Expansion Chamber gives gas room to expand in your marker prior to being released with a trigger pull. Thus lessening the chance of shooting liquid through your marker. The Regulator regulates the amount of pressure that enters your marker at any given time. A regulator will not stop the flow of liquid into your marker. You can regulate liquid into your gun then once it heats up it will expand and the regulator did nothing to help your situation.

The best set-up for a CO2 powered marker is a Regulator and an Expansion Chamber. This will give you the best chance at consistency. Add a Low pressure chamber and a ventury bolt and your good to go.

[davidb]

Eeeehh... No. Sorry, but it really depends on the regulator. For example, if you get liquid CO2 into a Vigilante, it won't do very good things... But, if you get liquid CO2 into a Palmer Stab, rest assured none of it will get into your gun. Also, when you say that the best setup is a reg and an expansion chamber...
1. You should make sure he knows that the expansion chamber goes BEFORE the reg, NEVER after.
2. You'd be wrong. The best setup for CO2 would be an anti-siphon tank and then a regulator. Also, for the money it would cost to put a reg and x-chamber on his gun, he could have gotten an HPA tank, which would be the best option.

[PaintballWarehouse]

Well.. Ya got me there. HPA, hands down, is a much better system. However the question was about CO2 systems.

I am a little boggled by your cost comparison though. A standard 68ci tank will run you about $180 or a stubby for $150. If you cant find an expansion chamber (most are about $30) and CO2 regulator (about $40) for under $180 you need to find a new place to shop.

As for the rest, I have never seen a marker that had an expansion chamber before the regulator. in fact I would love to see one. Please post a picture. As far as I know most expansion chambers are after the regulator in the for-grip of the marker (CO2 leaves the tank flows through the regulator, expands in the expansion chamber and pop). The Max-Flo has a vertical set-up but then you don't have an expansion chamber. hmmm... I am at a loss.

Yes an anti-siphon tank is also a good thing to keep liquid out of your marker. I stand corrected. The best CO2 system is an anti-siphon valve, Reg, and Expansion chamber. Each serves a different purpose and can be purchased for under $80 for all three.

[davidb]

Once again, you'd be wrong. Sorry. It's a plain and simple fact that you should never have an expansion chamber after the regulator. There is a way to get one before, but the only one that I know of would be with the Smart Parts Smart Remote, which has an expansion chamber built in. Anyway, as far as the cost comparison goes, a reg and x-chamber will cost you, at the VERY LEAST, $70. You can get a small, stainless steel nitro tank for $80. Not the best tank in the world, I'll grant you, but still worlds better than CO2. Back to the reg before x-chamber thing- think about this. A regulator lets in CO2 or air to a set pressure. If liquid gets past the regulator, it will expand in the gun and go beyond the set pressure. If you are going to be letting liquid past your reg, then your reg is doing nothing good anyway, and having an expansion chamber will just make it worse. Picture this: your reg is set to 800 psi. Liquid CO2 gets through your reg and fills up your nice, $30, six stage expansion chamber at 800 psi. This liquid then expands to pressures far beyond 800 psi, and negates the value of both your chamber and your reg, and gives you big velocity spikes. Sorry for not explaining before, but I assumed anybody who would be giving out advice would know something like that. The Max-Flow doesn't need an expansion chamber because the Max-Flow in and of itself will keep liquid out of your gun very well. And... Last of all, Expansion chambers and anti siphon hoses serve the same purpose, to keep liquid out of the gun. They both work well, but the anti-siphon hose only costs $10 and doesn't get in the way of other upgrades, i.e. a regulator.
Anyway, to answer JavaJunkie's question, an expansion chamber keeps liquid CO2 from getting in your gun, and they cost about $30. An anti siphon hose does the same thing at least as well, and costs $10. Save your money. Chances are you will eventually have nitro, but for now an anti siphon hose will suffice nicely. If you eventually do get nitro, you will be kind of kicking yourself for having spent $30 for something that is now useless. For your money, you can get a PMI Pure Energy regulator, and an anti siphon hose, which will work very nicely while you save for HPA, for maybe $70 or so. And the most expensive part, the reg, will still benefit you when you get HPA. What kind of setup do you have right now?

[Edited by davidb on 05-03-2001 at 01:09 AM]

[TrOy]

There is so much sexual tention between you two!LOL
Keep going I am learning everything I will ever need to know! I like the disagreements cuz gettting both sides rock! I just wanted to thank you both! I have a stableizer so.. hey how much should it cost to get your CO2 tanks into antisyphon tanks? And whoever does that has to match that up to your gun right?

[Richy_C]

keep this debate going, I think it's one of the best non flaming debates in the forums now.

[TrOy]

I have gleemed more info from this thread then any! You two keep going!
Thank you!

[PaintballWarehouse]

Well I really don't have much more to say on the issue. I think we both made our point.

I think his point is if your thinking of upgrading your CO2 system your wasting your money. Just go out and get a Nitro/HPA system. I fully agree. All the problems caused by CO2 are corrected with HPA.

My point was basically that the Regulator and Expansion chamber both serve independent functions and both are necessary to help make CO2 more consistent. Be it an expansion chamber before the Regulator(still would love to see how this would work) or after, you still need space for your CO2 to expand.

If you play in an area where CO2 is still the gas of choice simply upgrading with a reg, expansion chamber and Anti-siphon tube will make a world of difference for your consistency. Add a Ventury bolt and better barrel(BoomStick/All American/Stealth) and you have a sweat little CO2 based marker.

[MuckRaker]

Warehouse and David: Great technical advice, but, It's probably for more experienced players ... or players who've got more money to spend (Heck, what do I know, Java may be sitting on top of a couple grand that he wants to spend.)

Please don't take me wrong here, But Java asked what the X chamber does, and also stated that he's in the process of buying his first marker. Now, unless he does have those couple grand laying around his house, I'm not sure if with his first gun purchase he's gonna be able to shell out the extra bucks for HPA, Reg, X chamber and antisiphon tube ... hell, I work fulltime and can barely afford the few upgrades I've put on my marker.

Perhaps what would be of more use to Java (I hope I'm not going out on a limb here) would be a good comparison of X chambers, four stage, six stage, and the most popular brands.

[orryn]

Java, I would recommend the Rebel LE. I have this gun and is great so far. For a newbie player, which I am too, it need very few upgrades. All it really needs is a new barrel, the stock is loud and inaccurate. It has a real six-stage expansion chamber, low pressure chamber, venturi bolt, double trigger, bottom line, vert. feed and a great grip. It is 159.99 at most places. You can occasionally find one for cheep on ebay. I got mine for 199.99 plus mask, 20 oz tank, hopper, barrel plug and 200 paintballs from www.shop4paintball.com. Just something to think about.

[JavaJunkie686]

Hey thanks alot guys for all the advice.

No unfortunately, I don't have a coupla grand to spend. If I did, I'd probably buy a Mag or an Angel.

The Rebel LE is pretty neat...but I was thinking more along the lines of a Tippman M98 Custom.

[JavaJunkie686]

What do you guys think about that?

[PaintballWarehouse]

The Model 98 custom is probably the best marker out there for new players IMHO. Its very durable and can be upgraded along with your skill level. From its RT Trigger to the Flat Line Barrel the model 98 custom can take many different forms.

To gain consistency with this marker I would suggest the Expansion chamber w/Vertical kit and a Hyper Star Bolt.

[jrr112]

Where can i get an anti-syphon hose?

And where does it go on a gun?

[JavaJunkie686]

Allright, sounds good. Thanks again to all who commented on my question.

[davidb]

Ooops :eek: Neglected to read the part about buying his first gun. If I were you, I would just not even worry about getting an expansion chamber. There is too much hype around them, in my opinion their main purpose is as a foregrip. Most of them cost around $30+, while you can get an anti siphon hose that works at least as well for $10. If you're going to get the Model 98, which I agree would make a great first gun (I wish I had gotten one instead of my Shutter, I'd be about $100 or so richer and it would have looked nice sitting next to my SL-68 II), but, there isn't a whole lot available for it in the way of x-chambers. The ones that are avalable are expensive and, from what I've heard, basically nonfunctional. Don't let that sway you though, it already has two very comfy grips, front and back, so an anti siphon hose will do nicely. Also, there's a really easy-to-do trigger job you can do on a Model 98, and while I'm not quite dumb enough to say that it can hold a candle to electro guns, I have done it to two of my friend's 98's, and I have to say they're about as fast as my other friend's stock 2001 Cocker. (No, I did NOT say that the Model 98 with trigger job is as good as a Cocker. Not hardly. But speedwise, it can keep up with no trouble.) jrr112, go to your local store if you have one and ask them if they can install one. And bring your tank, cause that's where it goes; inside the tank. They work pretty well, my friend runs his Cocker on a 20 oz anti siphon tank, and hasn't had any trouble with it (he's still a crazy fool for running a Cocker on CO2, but hey)
Warehouse, the reason that there aren't many ways to put an x-chamber and reg on a gun together is that most people who have regs neither want nor need x-chambers. Make a thread sometime asking if it's good to have an expansion chamber after a reg, and see what comes up.