Vertical Adaptor and LP questions

[Icefire]

I trying to get details together so I can go lp and I have a couple question that I hope you guys/gals could help me answer.

1.) What is the thread size for the part where x-chamber/forgrip goes into the body? Is this 1/8" NPT? The resoason I asking is I want to put a Palmer stab. reg in there and I want to spend as little money as possible. I know I can get a Spyder vertical adaptor and then put a Palmer with a male fitting.

2.) What is the thread size for the 4.0's x-chamber where it screws into the x-chamber? When I first open it, it looks like is just a male ASA size fitting but the threads seem a little same. I have taken it out yet and try put it on the ASA. But, if it is a male ASA fitting, I'll be able to go with a female Palmer stab and save myself about $30.

3.)Do you guys think I will need a new valve when going to LP? I know I might have to work on the pin, but can I keep the valve?

4.) Here is my plan for going LP, could someone comment on it. Palmer stab reg, re-worked pin, CO2 with anti-syphon, 32 degree springs, and the Equation MS w/o porting for a more efficent barrel. I plan to keep the bolt. It is a very efficent and will design bolt that I think will work very well in LP.

[Icefire]

Used, you are right about the bolt and the valve, but I want to see how far I can go without changing those parts first. If I can get it down to 400 or so psi without losing efficiency, I would be very happy. I think during cold weather, my gun has gone down to about 500-550 psi without any problems.

[Guillotine]

anything AKA is probably the best LP stuff. although they are a lot more expensive, an AKA lightning and tornado valve will increase air flow a lot.

and for the palmers stab, just get the direct stab, cuz you will have to take off the existing exp chamber and the take out the male asa deal, or you could get a spyder va and get the male stab.

[JewishRanger]

Also the AKA Lighting Bolt seems good because it has the 3 o-rings which are like on the stock 4.0 bolt.

[JewishRanger]

Hey Ice, how's your LP project coming along. Please tell me about the details because I think I want to do the same thing that you're doing with your JT. I wanna get a Palmer Stab, Maddman Rocket Valve (when they come out), Maddman spring kit, a nylon or delrin high flow bolt (where can I find info on White Wolf Delrins?), a Boo-Yaah frame, and an n2 setup. I want to know if I need a spyder vertical adapter to fit the stab, or can I get a female or somethin to make it fit without the vert adapter. Also, is it possible to move the regulator to the vertical adaptor, in case I do need one to screw in the palmer. For now, I probably won't be buying the Boo-Yaah, but I've seen blocks that fit the off-set screws on the stock frame and they make the holes "standard" so you can fit regular cradles or drop forwards. Another question I have is will the Palmer stab work without anti-syphon, because I've read it doesn't let liquid co2 through so anti-syphon may not be needed. I think I have anti-syphon, but I'm not sure. Is there any way I can check (I have a catalina tank with a SP on/off)?

[Guillotine]

good choice with the rocket valve, cuz the tornado valve probably won't work. either that or I'd go with a 32* or TASO turbo valve.

as far as bolts go, I have heard the white wolf delrin is good. White Wolf is located here (http://www.whitewolfairsmithing.com)

but you would be best off with an AKA lightning bolt.

and I would just get the palmer direct stablizer. Found here (http://www.palmer-pursuit.com) that way you won't need a vertical adapter.

and either a madman or a 32* spring kit will work fine.

and the palmers stablizer is the best CO2 regulator, you don't need anti-syphon, it will help a lot, but you don't need it.

the stab is also a really good N2 reg as well.

and for the boo-yaah, I thought it was standard to start out with, I could be wrong. but otherwise, yeah they have offset hole adapters for that.

and Also, is it possible to move the regulator to the vertical adaptor, in case I do need one to screw in the palmer I am not quite sure as to exactly what you mean by that, it is kinda confusing

[JewishRanger]

What I meant is...is it possible to drill and tap a hole in the vertical adapter to hold a regulator. I think if i can do this, or if the Palmer Stab has a reg on it, I can keep the stock reg on the bottom line adaptor on the Jt 4.0, which will let me see the pressure of the co2 tank, and then I can see the pressure after it's gone through the reg.

[JewishRanger]

Also, has anyone EVER heard of the Swan Creek N-Bolts? I don't know about the performance of the White Wolf delrins, but I read a person say something in the forums about how they heard from somewhere else that those bolts were good.

[Guillotine]

I have heard of the swan creek N-bolts. but haven't heard anything of their performance. have you checked the reviews on PBR yet?

and I think you are confused. The Palmer Stablizer IS a regulator. but it also doubles as an expansion chamber, thats what puts it above all else for CO2, because it regulates the CO2.

and the 4.0s don't have VAs(well, they have that f'ed up female thingy with that tube for the "metamorph" x-chamber, but that is stupid)

and you don't want to triple reg(if you are using N2).

[Icefire]

Guillotine got most of what I want to said. I plan to mod the valve and the pin instead of replacing it. I haven't decide if I will/need to change the bolt. I think JT has a very nice bolt already. I haven't notice that you have polish the internals yet. You should get that done too. It makes the gun more reliable - in my case anyway, less jam. The bolt and hammer slides lot easier too which make the gun quieter.

The palmer Stab. reg. has a tap for you to put a gauge to to get the output preasure if that is what you are interested in. What I did was open the flow regulator on the ASA all the way and just use the Palmer to regulate the preasure. I am using a 32 degree spring kit with the lightest valve spring and a medium main. I have crono the gun yet, but I think I might need to use the heavy main spring to get it shoot at 280 fps with current psi (~380 psi or so but have confirm). I still need to mod the valve pin. I'm hoping to get it to about 350 psi but no more than 400 psi. I'll need to get another gauge to put on the palmer to check.

[JewishRanger]

Sorry guillotine, I made I typo. I said "if the stab has a reg"...but what I mean was if the stab has a guage. My bad, sorry. Also I have been working on polishing the bolt tube (it's gotten scratched up). Ice, can you tell me what you were polishing again, cuz I can't find the thread where you told me? Also did you get 350psi pressure just with a reg and polished internals?
I would be pleased with just 400. How much lower do you think you can go with a new valve. I know that it's not how low you can go, but the most efficient combination of pressure/upgrades you can make that will make your gun work best. Last comment, giullotine, why did you say the aka valve probably won't work. I e-mailed polecat paintball (great guy), and he said he has a modded spyder that he rents, and it works great. Also he told me that the problem of blowby (where the gun won't recock becasue of too low pressure) is more related to the bolt and not the valve....I'm still conversing with him about this.

[Guillotine]

yeah, if you can get a striker or mod that will work with the tornado valve, then great, I would say go for it. tornadoes are the best.

and o.k. I am sorry, I made a mistake in my post I think. I said that you could just screw in the direct stab, but I think the threads on the JT aren't 1/8th NPT, so I think you will have to tap it in order to fit a VA or the direct stab. I think if you check the picture thread. whoever has the Boo-yaah, and that cool custom drop and the stab could tell you how he did it.

[Icefire]

I used some 400, 600, and 100 grid sandpaper to polished the bolt and the stricker. I used a wire brush (for shotguns) attached to a drill to polished the upper and lower tube. I then used stick and cloth with some metal polish attach to a drill to finish it off.

I also drilled out the vertical adaptor to the next larger size before I install it.

I got to that low by using using the palmer to lower the pressure. I used the weakest valve spring form the 32 degree spring kit and the medium main spring. I think I will have to use the heavy main spring to get it up 280 fps, but I have not crono it yet so we'll have to see. Polishing the internals made it easier for the gun to recock. With my current setup, I think I can get about 2000 or so shots out of a 20 oz CO tank in 70F temp. I use to get about 1200 or so with a Big Daddy barrel.

I don't know how much better it will be with a new bolt. The Jt bolt is already polished, light, and has no ventura. I would spend the money on the valve first.

I have heard some people said that not all the valves that fit on the Spyder will work on the JT. I would advice you to buy it from a local shop so you can exchange it easily.

[JewishRanger]

Ice, could you give me step-by-step instructions on how you drilled and re-tapped the metric hole in the gun's body to fit the 1/8 npt va? Also, how much lower affective psi do you think you will be able to go after you install a new valve such as the tornado? I have already polished the internals, and now I am going to order the Lapco Vertical Adapter, Palmer stab male, and 32* and Maddman spring kits (I'll order both, because each one has their good qualities that I need, and they're not that expensive). Later I plan on buying a new valve, bolt, and a Boo-Yaah or Mako Storm frame. Last question ice, how did you remove that metal hose fitting that goes directly into the bottomline adapter. One side of it is threaded (the side that screws into the bottom line adapter), and the other side has ridges which hold the stainless steel line in place. I've removed the line from the ridges, but it is a pain to remove the threaded side, and I've heated it (if there's loctite there), and that didn't budge it. Could mine be stuck?

[JewishRanger]

Ice, I would like to buy your hose that you took off of your gun. I stupidly stripped the threads on the inside of mine, so I can't really go playing paintball without it. Please tell me how much you want, and I will consider it. Also, could you tell me where you got the 1/8npt tap. I went to Lowes today and they didn't have any taps in that size. I'm such a *******!

[Icefire]

Let's start with the easy questions first. I am selling the hose for $5 plus shipping. I believe the US Postal Service charge like $3 to $5. So you are looking at around $8 to $10. So lets said $9 including shipping if you want it.

I got my tap at an automotive store. It was $4 or so. I'm a little suprise that Lowe's didn't have it.

Here is the procedure and what you will need to get reg on. You will need one 1/8-20 NPT tap, verticle adaptor, Palmer male reg., 6" SS line, one metric to standard adaptor so you can connect the SS line to the ASA or you can go with a new ASA, teflon tape, and red Loctite (thread lock). Start by taking apart the gun. Take the volumizer, bolt, striker, and everything else except the trigger frame. Put some oil on the Palmer's ASA thread and put it onto the verticle adaptor. Take the tap and tap the body and use oil as you tap. Also to back out every full turn to clean out the metal pieces. DO NOT redrill the body, just tap it. DO NOT tap all the way, just about 3/4 of the way. Now, test fit the Palmer w/ the vertical adaptor on it. What you want is to have the hose facing the back like you have on your picture and that's why you don't tap all the way through. If it doesn't line up, take your tap and tap it again till you got it to the right place. Mark the vertical adaptor where the SS line will be attached and remove the Palmer. Clean off the oil with some kind of degreaser like 409 and then clean again with water. Make sure it is oil free - both the body where you tap and the verticle adaptor. This is a good time to drill out the VA if you want to.

After everything is clean and dry, it's time to put everything back together. Take the red loctite and apply it to the thread of the vertical adaptor. Let it it dry for about 5 minutes. Be careful that you don't put any in the hole on the VA where the air goes through. Now, hand tight the VA into the body. Use a wrench to tighten just about a 1/8 of a turn and make sure the mark is aline. Let it set at least 24 hours before putting everything together.

While the VA is drying, attach the SS hose to the metric to standard adaptor useing teflon tape. Attach this end to the ASA Attach the other end to the palmer. Remember to use teflon tape.

When the loctite is dry, carefully attach the palmer to the VA. If the SS hose doesn't match up, you can back the palmer a little. Attach the ASA to the trigger frame and test.

[JewishRanger]

Where did you buy your loctite? I checked at Lowes and Home Depot and all thy had was teflon paste...this was at the plumbing section. Next, are you 100% positive that the tap you got was 1/8-20, because I saw a 1/8-27 tap at home depot and I'm not sure if this is it. Today I think I'm going to go to Autozone or Advanced Auto Parts to buy some 800 and 1000 grit sandpaper (to finish my polishing), and I'll look for the tap and loctite there.

[Icefire]

I believe it was 1/8-20 NPT, but I'll check tonight and get back to you. The one you saw at home depot did it said NPT or just 1/8-27? Anyway, AutoZone or Advanced Auto Parts should have the red loctite for about $6. If they don't, ask them to order it for you. Home Depot and Lowe's would not carry them. It usually for engine assembly.

[JewishRanger]

OK, I was looking at the taps earlier (still too busy to go to autozone), and yeah i was lookin at the diff ones and some say nt and stuff like that, so the one i found says npt, and this should be the one. It was 1/8-27 NPT exactly. Also, I'm gonna drill and tap my trigger to make it adjustable, so i'll get both taps at once.

[JewishRanger]

Finally went to Autozone...didn't find any taps there :( , but I did get the 800 and 1000 sandpaper to finish my polishing of the striker, bolt, and trigger (I removed all the black anno off the trigger and striker and I polished both to mirror shine). Also I bought Red Extra Strength Thread Locker (I think it's Red Loctite, but please confirm this). I ordered a brand new AKA Tornado valve from ebay ($40 including shipping), and next I'm going to order Spyder Maintenance Kit, NW Vertical Adapter, Maddman Spring Kit, 32* Spring Kit, 6" Stainless Steel Hose, Metric to 1/8npt Spyder Bottom-line Adapter, and a black Palmer Stab. Is this all I need to complete my low pressure project?

[JewishRanger]

Ice, I decided to order a WGP ergo reg, or a stock STO reg, because I'm a little strapped for cash at the moment. In the future I would like to buy a stab reg, and I wanted to know if you could make the vertical adapter screw in correctly, so that the palmer I will buy in the future will have the air fitting facing backward?

[JewishRanger]

Ice, do you have any comments? I received my Tornado Valve yesterday, so now I hafta only order my WGP reg and vertical adapter.

[Icefire]

Sound like you are on your way. If you wanted the palmer, I would just spend the money on the palmer and wait on the other parts. The other parts are useless unless you can control the psi. An buying another reg and then buy the palmer later will only waste money. This is the reason why I still have my stock valve and bolt.

[JewishRanger]

I can probably sell my WGP reg later, for a profit to tell you the truth, because I'm basically getting it for free, so it's not that big of a deal for me. I heard that WGP regs are decent so I should be fine for now, but a palmer stab is a must upgrade in the future. Can you confirm if I bought red loctite (it says red thread locker extra strength)?

[JewishRanger]

I thought about what you said and I've decided on buying a Bob Long Torpedo eg...it has good performance for a cheap price, and I can always buy that palmer I want later.