matrix or impulse???

[98]

Im getting a new gun a matrix or impulse i dont have access to nitrogeon but want to go electro. what gun has a better rate of fire and accurracy? is the matrix good on c02? Please list the pros and cons i need answers you oppinnions would really help.

[Richy_C]

well, a matrix setup that will work on CO2 costs like 750, but the imlse preforms great on CO2. Both come with good barrels, both shoot fast, so impulse in your situation

[Watupi]

Originally posted by 98
Im getting a new gun a matrix or impulse i dont have access to nitrogeon but want to go electro.

Okay.

what gun has a better rate of fire and accurracy?

All guns have the same accuracy if they are regulated the same and use that same paint to barrel match. One gun isnt inherently more accurate than another,

Matrix has, by far, better ROF than an Impules. Adjustable trigger and a extremely short, light, microswitch.

is the matrix good on c02?

Mine runs fine on Co2. But, if I were you, install anti-siphons on your bottles. A female stabilizer, vertical maxflow, or standard maxflow would make Co2 run perfectly.

Please list the pros and cons i need answers you oppinnions would really help.

Im sorry, but a Matrix has more in common with an Angel than an Impulse. I wouldnt exactly compare the two.

[theomacy]

the matrix isn't even closely related to the angel its a completely different kind of gun. spool valve disign and all that, its not blow back. the angel is more closely related to the impulse than the matrix.

sorry i'm a real matrix guy

just had to get that out there

[Watupi]

Im not talking about being related by the operation. Im talking about performance.

If were talking about operation, then the Matrix would be closer to a Nova ET.

[JesterDude15]

I thought Novas were fully pnuematic?

Anyway

The Impulse is an awesome gun, you dont need any aftermarket parts to run flawlessly of C02, i can crank out 10 BPS w/o trying, Damn accurate, and not noisy.

I dont know much about the Matrix (besides the movie). It runs aboout the same pressure as an Impulse, the Impusle and the matrix are the only 2 guns that mades me stand back and say "HOLY SH*T!"

[C4pyro]

Yes accuracy is different...yes if they have the same barrels, regs, and any other crap they will have similar accuracy but the thing is that different guns come with different parts and different regs...they both shoot awsome and have good accurace but dont't get into that every gun has the same accuracy a matrix and an impulse have some differences out of the box and no its not gonna be a drastic difference but a stingray or a spyder stock...is no comparison in accuracy to a matrix or an impulse out of the box...yes if they have the same regs and barrels and other junk..pretty close, but how many stingrays do you se out there with a maxflo and a boomstick..


Both guns are great, fast and ron on low pressure, inpulse probably runs a little smoother on co2 but they are both great guns.

[Watupi]

Originally posted by JesterDude15
I thought Novas were fully pnuematic?


Regular Novas were/are. There was a version of the Nova called the Nova ET, electronic trigger.

Originally posted by c4pyro
Yes accuracy is different...yes if they have the same barrels, regs, and any other crap they will have similar accuracy

No. If they have the same reg, paint to barrel match, and are set at the same velocity then they will have the same accuracy, give or take a little because of wind and other outside forces.

but the thing is that different guns come with different parts and different regs...

Really, youre kidding? The barrel a gun comes with doesnt matter. If you dont use the right paint with it, what kind of barrel it is wont matter. And besides, if you dont like the bore size of your barrel or the pressure ratio of your reg, you can always get another one.

they both shoot awsome and have good accurace but dont't get into that every gun has the same accuracy

They do both shoot "awesome", but the Matrix does it faster and with a lighter microswitch.

From stock, the only accuracy difference would be consistancy. In that case, the Impulse would win due to the fact that it uses a Maxflow stock. But, I have a vertical Maxflow on my Matrix right now, so I guess you could say its as accurate as an Impulse.

a matrix and an impulse have some differences out of the box and no its not gonna be a drastic difference but a stingray or a spyder stock...is no comparison in accuracy to a matrix or an impulse out of the box...

No, if they had the same reg and paint to barrel match, it would be the same.

yes if they have the same regs and barrels and other junk..pretty close

There isnt any other "junk". And the barrel really doesnt count. A stock Spyder with a Maxflow and the same air source, at the same velocity, with a good paint to barrel match will be more accurate than a Matrix/Impulse with a Maxflow and same air source, at the same velocity, with a bad paint to barrel match. Its all about the paint size, not who makes that barrel or how much it costs.

but how many stingrays do you se out there with a maxflo and a boomstick..

Not many, but its not like its impossible.

[Sid]

The barrel doesn't count? THE BARREL DOESN'T COUNT????

What????? Uh.. I think you're a little confused... Barrel doesn't count???? RIDICULUS!. I can't believe you actually believe the barrel has nothing to do with accuracy!!!! So you have electrical conduit on your paintgun do you? Not bloody likely! Are you in your right mind?

All you keep talking about is paint to barrel match.. well duh.. Everyone matches their paint.. its obvious! Do I have to tell you to make sure you pull the trigger in order to fire the paintball? NO.. ITS FREAKING OBVIOUS!

So by your definition the only factors affecting paintgun performance is paint to barrel match, the regulator, the set velocity, and "outside" forces like wind? Sure.. sure. So internal action differences have nothing to do with paintgun accuracy or performance. Seems you're blind to other factors such as volume vs psi, or closed bolt vs open bolt, or bolt face.

Usually I'm not this harsh, but you walk in here like Mr. Know-it-all giving people attitude. I'm just giving you a taste of your own fecal matter.

[JesterDude15]

Go Flash!!!!!!1


Precisely made barrels involve rolling and molding and...the key part.......MAKING BY HAND!!!!!

[blake_sw]

Flash..you spelled ridiculous wrong :) GO MATRIX!! Go to http://www.paintballchannel.com and watch the video on the gun, it'll make a believer outta ya! You can also see the gun shooting on the 2000 WORLD CUP vid at: http://www.pigtv.net
Players from Team Image have started to use Matrixes, and they rock! Boo YESSSS

[Watupi]

Originally posted by theflash
The barrel doesn't count? THE BARREL DOESN'T COUNT????

Im sorry, but unless your barrel is an unpolished pipe, the type of barrel it is doesnt count as much as the paint you use in it.

What????? Uh.. I think you're a little confused... Barrel doesn't count???? RIDICULUS!. I can't believe you actually believe the barrel has nothing to do with accuracy!!!! So you have electrical conduit on your paintgun do you? Not bloody likely! Are you in your right mind?

Like I said, the paint you use in your barrel is more important than how long it was polished or what brand it is.

All you keep talking about is paint to barrel match.. well duh.. Everyone matches their paint.. its obvious! Do I have to tell you to make sure you pull the trigger in order to fire the paintball? NO.. ITS FREAKING OBVIOUS!

To many experienced players, it is obvious. But, a large number of players dont realize the importance of a paint to barrel match. Many dont know paint a barrels come in different bore sizes.

So by your definition the only factors affecting paintgun performance is paint to barrel match, the regulator, the set velocity, and "outside" forces like wind?

Good to know you can read. And I hope by performance you mean accuracy and range.

Sure.. sure. So internal action differences have nothing to do with paintgun accuracy or performance.

Nope. Not accuracy or range. I cant read your mind, so I dont know what you mean by performance.

Seems you're blind to other factors such as volume vs psi, or closed bolt vs open bolt, or bolt face.

Want to know about operating pressure? I get a lot of people that come into the shop wanting me to make their markers "low pressure". Ive converted countless Cockers to "low pressure". But, before I was willing to do this to another persons marker, I tested low pressure parts on my Cocker to see what the advantages were. I dont like to rip people off.

What did I find? Seemed to be less kick, and the efficiency was greatly improved. Thats it. There wasnt a noticable difference in ball breakage, range, accuracy, or any other things that "low pressure" is said to do.

Open bolt verses closed bolt. That does make a huge difference, doesnt it? Bolt position doesnt make a damn.

Bolt face, huh? Venturi bolts have to be one of the biggest scams in paintball. Want to know the performance difference between an open faced bolt or a venturi faced bolt? Venturis restrict air flow, open faces dont. You can argue that they are gentler on paint. But, its not.

Usually I'm not this harsh, but you walk in here like Mr. Know-it-all giving people attitude. I'm just giving you a taste of your own fecal matter.
Thats fine, youre not bothering me.

And Im not giving attitude, Im giving you the truth.

[Phaelon Veritas]

hahahaahaha it's a pissing contest my ***** is bigger than yours and if mines not better in your eyes I'll prove it blah blah blah you are talking about 2 electro guns lets face it both have light triggers both have barrels regulators both shoot paint and both come with a hefty price tag one a little more than the other the question being is how much money do you hae and how much will you let them take.choose the one that you think will make your friends ooh and ahh more and go with it

[JesterDude15]

Internals do have ALOT to do with the accuracy of the gun!

I have seen the results!
I changed the Bolt on my spyder and noticed a GREAT accuracy increase!

I think Watupi is just guessing without any proof.

[Sid]

So just because you work at a paintball shop, you're the ultimate authority in paintball guns? Most of the employees at my local paintball shop are 14 and don't even know what a VM-68 is.. I'm not saying you're unqualified, but your employment at your local paintshop means nothing.

Have you ever shot a Phantom? So there is no accuracy difference between a Phantom and a Spyder? Sure..Sure... I scoff.

Ever used a Shocker? Stick your finger in the feed port and pull the trigger. Your finger will be fine. Why? LOW PRESSURE.

Some may choose to believe you, others will choose to believe me.

I've tested these things out, and much of my knowledge comes from M.R. Paintball Paintball shop. The owner happens to be a memeber of Bob Long's Ironmen. There's no way I'm goning to believe you over a World Champion.

[Watupi]

Originally posted by JesterDude15

I changed the Bolt on my spyder and noticed a GREAT accuracy increase!


Either youre seeing things, or the bolt happen to be higher flow than your stock bolt. Know what this would do? Raise your velocity. That, more than likely, is why you think there is a difference.


So just because you work at a paintball shop, you're the ultimate authority in paintball guns? Most of the employees at my local paintball shop are 14 and don't even know what a VM-68 is.. I'm not saying you're unqualified, but your employment at your local paintshop means nothing.

Im not calling myself the ultimate authority in paintball guns. I simply know that physics applies to paintball.

And yes, being at my shop, notice how I said my seeing as how I own it, does make a difference. That is, I deal with these subjects, and people such as yourself, every day. Fortunately, I can take the people that come into my shop out back to the speedball field and SHOW them what the truth is. All I can do on the internet is tell you the truth.


Have you ever shot a Phantom? So there is no accuracy difference between a Phantom and a Spyder? Sure..Sure... I scoff.

One shot. Same velocity. Same paint to barrel match. Nope.


Ever used a Shocker? Stick your finger in the feed port and pull the trigger. Your finger will be fine. Why? LOW PRESSURE.

Yeah, seeing as how I use to own one.

Wow, low pressure! Less paint chopping! Thats all!


Some may choose to believe you, others will choose to believe me.

I dont care. Im right, youre wrong. They can belive what they want. Thinking something is true doesnt make it true.


I've tested these things out

There, I caught you in a lie again. You obviously havent tested these things out. How do I know? Because you seem to have no idea what youre talking about.


and much of my knowledge comes from M.R. Paintball Paintball shop.

And much of my knowledge comes from my testing and airsmithing work.


The owner happens to be a memeber of Bob Long's Ironmen. There's no way I'm goning to believe you over a World Champion.

Thats fine, you can believe the umnamed Ironmen member over me. Im going to believe Glenn over him.

Like I said, believe what you want. I cant prove you wrong unless you fly down here and let me take you out to the field. It doesnt hurt for you to believe that water can flow uphill. But, believing that doesnt make it true.

[JesterDude15]

I will chose to beleive Flash.

I did a field test today.

I put the Bob Long bolt in my spyder and set my velocity at 280, fired 30 paintballs, 24 hit the target.

Then I put in my stock bolt and re-cronoed at 280, fired and 21 hit the target.

I think Watupi's problem is that he is too bent on his beliefs to look upon results.

[ds613]

Assuming that It can be easily made to run on co2, go with the Matrix. That's what I would do. I have an Impulse, but If I could have afforded one I might have gotten a Matrix. From what I've seen It seems like a great gun.

[davidb]

Jesterdude, can we assume that you had your Spyder securely clamped down, accounted for wind, and did a proper test before you came in and told the airsmith what's what? I doubt it. Chances are you picked the thing up, fired a measly 30 shots at the target, switched bolts, repeated. Now, I wouldn't expect you to do anything more than that, but if you're going to try to prove someone wrong... 30 balls is not nearly enough, and it should be done in an enclosed environment, with the gun securely fastened to something. Even then, you would have to do like 1000 shots to get a somewhat accurate conclusion.
About the barrel thing, do you guys really think that the people at, say, DYE, polish up their Boomsticks any more than J&J polishes the Full Tilt? Or Smart Parts? A friend of mine has a Teardrop, which is about $60-$70, on a stock Model 98. He was shooting at a pole about 1 1/2 inches wide, from a distance of 90 feet (that distance was measured, not a wild guess or exaggeration). He shot at the pole about 30 times, firing maybe 2x per second, and hit it 5 or 6 times, all in the same spot. This was standing up, no scope, out in an open field. Most aftermarket barrels will have similar accuracy if the paint match is good. Another friend of mine was testing the stock barrel on his Piranha STS G2 against a bunch of aftermarkets, among them an Armson and a Dye Stainless. The difference was basically nil, but the Armson was louder and the Stainless was quieter.
Do you want to hear my theory on why closed bolt guns have reputations for range/accuracy? Of course you don't, but here it is anyway: Look at the two most popular closed bolt semis, the Cocker and Shocker. Both of them come with regulators, both of which are good (the Shocker's in particular). The reason why this would cause an accuracy myth is obvious. Why it would cause a range myth is less obvious. Think about it, if you have a gun like the Shocker that gets +/-2 fps at the chrono, and the field limit is 280, you are going to set your Shocker at 278 or so. Then again, if you have something like a stock Spyder or Mag or whatever that gets +/- 10 or 15 at the chrono, you are going to set it at maybe 270, maybe even less, to keep from shooting hot. Obviously, in this case, the Shocker will shoot farther, because it is shooting faster. The same thing applies to low pressure operation. Every single gun that's operating at low pressure has to have a reg on it, and most regs that operate well at low pressure are very consistent. And so there we go again...
Anyway, I'm sorry, but I'm going to take the word of the field owner, who has much more experience, who knows how to make a Cocker low pressure, who's word happens to match that of Glenn Palmer...

[JesterDude15]

Dave,

I hat to bust your bubble, but a stock mag gets a REAL tight consistency grouping at the chrono (if using Nitro).

[Watupi]

I will chose to beleive Flash.

Thats fine. Im not trying to start a cult or anything. You can believe Flash, but that doesnt make him right.

I did a field test today.

I put the Bob Long bolt in my spyder and set my velocity at 280, fired 30 paintballs, 24 hit the target.

Then I put in my stock bolt and re-cronoed at 280, fired and 21 hit the target.

You know what could account for those missing three shots? Wind, velocity, you holding the marker, luck, ect.

think Watupi's problem is that he is too bent on his beliefs to look upon results.

Actually, the reason Im so bent on my beliefs is that I DO look upon results.

Like I said, you can believe what you want. Im not going to stop you.

[JesterDude15]

AHA!!!!

I found proof.

paintballstar.com did a review on an Angel, they shot 30 shots with the Infinity barrel and 30 hit the target but the grouping was a little spread out. Then they put on a Boomer and only 28 hit the target but the grouping was MUCH tighter.

[Creek]

david, on the closed bolt thing you forgot that the phoon and blazer are both closed bolt and there both made by palmer.I not going too get into a pissing match here just letting you know you forgot those markers.
You people got too understand a few thing don't belive every thing you read.Also if you go out a see then you can belive the results.
Some people , Is what it takes showing them.I not going too take anysides here.
I belive I own some great markers for what I paid for them.Great meaning there price.I fell spending 2000 bucks on a marker to walk out and play a rec game and not having it make money is dumd.
As far as which marker too buy,simple Buy what you can aford and go out and have fun with it.

[JesterDude15]

Well said Creek....You brought a tear to my eye...

[Imus]

I'm down with The Flash...
on another note
it's all about paint to barrel match. You can use the highest quality of paint there is but if you've got a barrel that's too small you're gonna break every ball and if it's too big it's gonna roll out the end of your barrel!

[Watupi]

Jester, new style Infinities are medium to large bore barrels. Boomers are usually medium. If they were using medium bore paint, yeah, the Boomer would have been better. If they were using a larger bore of paint, the Infitity would have done better. They more than likely were using medium bore paint, which matched the Boomer better.