check out this angel

[starboarder2001]

check out this angel i made with 3ds max 4 and tell me what u think. It is lowpolygon so it is good for a game model.

[SkunkTeeth]

make an original skin, photoskins look like *** but the model looks awesome

[i like tictacs]

make your own skin!!

oo, btw,when ur done, post! i want it in cs.... maybe as a tmp?

[Crash Danger]

hey that's pretty cool, I can picture a guy in Unreal Tournament running around with that thing :D

[starboarder2001]

I am having some somputer problems so it may be a little while. All i have to do is reinstall some software.

[FPS 300]

Yeah I'd love that in CS. I'd probably replace the Steyr Aug w/ it though :) I'd love to eventually get all the gun models replaced w/ paintball guns, and make the decals.wad file with all the bullet holes etc. turn to paint splatters and stuff :)

and the mp5 would have to be a tippmann.

[starboarder2001]

Ahh i got a good idea. I can modify it and turn it into a dark angel. I am going to make alot more guns so i am not going to worry about making this spicific one better. But i will post all my other guns as soon as i get my computer running right. I am not much of a 2d artist so i have to use pics for my skins. I dont think they look that bad but if any one wants to make a good skin for me they are welcome :)

[FPS 300]

I don't know much about 3d modeling, but I'm good w/ 2d :) I betcha I could work on some skins for ya, but I don't know how to make them (ex. in Quake 2 the player skins - the arms would be (say) in the middle, head top left, body top middle, etc.) I'm not sure how I'd go about making a 2d skin, but I can try :)

[starboarder2001]

cool. I can export them to mdl or md2 format. Just send them to me as a jpeg or gif and i can make the models for u.

[FPS 300]

Originally posted by starboarder2001
What is CS?? Whatever it is sounds cool.

CS is Counter-Strike. It's a first person shooter, basically anti-terrorist stuff, great game :)

[starboarder2001]

also the gun skins just needs a side view of the gun because i try to make it as small of a file as i can so it will run better on games. just name a gun and give me a jpeg of it and i can do it

[FPS 300]

Originally posted by starboarder2001
also the gun just needs a side view of the gun because i try to make it as small of a file as i can so it will run better on games.

What do you mean? You want me to make 2 side views?

:confused:

[starboarder2001]

i need one side view like the gun is laying on the ground.

[starboarder2001]

here is an example of a pic i used to make one of the angels

[FPS 300]

ahhh ok
kewl I'll work on that

[starboarder2001]

just email me it when your done.

starboarder_2001@yahoo.com

[starboarder2001]

what format would i need to export to for CS?

[FPS 300]

That one I don't know. I'm at school now, but I'll be able to find out later today. :)

[starboarder2001]

???

[starboarder2001]

yea!!! got 3ds max 4 running :)

now i am going to make a lowpolygon bushmaster b2k2

[starboarder2001]

done

[i like tictacs]

make them higher poly, i think all low poly things look godawful. high poly acyually help with pic skins too.

[starboarder2001]

yea but high polygon models are not good when used in games. I made them lowpolygon because i plan to use them in games later. I may make some high polygon paintball models later but most of my models i make are used in games.

[i like tictacs]

all my CS models are over 1000 poly. they are sweet. i only have a 677 mhz processor and they run fine.

[Blazestorm]

I know a lot about Halflife and shiznit, any computer can handle a large open level such as de_aztec, notice the simplicity of it? it was made so higher quality models are used, spend more than 5 minutes making these models and slapping PHOTO skins on them.

If you want I can make skins for you if you include mesh :D

btw I make, cartoonie guns... not realistic :blah:

anyway, include the meshs of that angel and bushy and I'll skinm

NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS NO PHOTOSKINS

[starboarder2001]

LOL:D

[starboarder2001]

LOLOLOL!!

[Blazestorm]

I'm not even going to listen to you.

You are not a true skinner or modeller

When you learn I will respect you

For now, learn how

Here is a skin that a friend and I worked on last year.

You see how detailed it is?

We started from SCRATCH ok, That model has about 1000 polys on it and runs FINE

All CS models have 1000+ polys in them

Low poly = bad
Photoskin = bad

LEARN HOW TO SKIN + MODEL = I RESPECT YOU.

(I make levels, it doesn't matter how complex it is, the model affects it no differently)

[Blazestorm]

pic

[Blazestorm]

BTW your models are corrupted so there is no way for me to extract the skins to edit them to make the cartoonie or replace them with a better skin, hell I'll learn how to model and compete with you =P

[PGA1234]

Blazestorm, what program do you use? Great job on those pistols :).

[PGA1234]

Hey Starboarder2001 did you buy 3ds Max 4 or do you have it at work or what? I'm wondering because they sell it online for like $3500.

[Blazestorm]

He most likely stole it from kazaa, thats made with a mixture of programs

[starboarder2001]

I bought the educational verson for $900. I make all my models from a single cube.

[starboarder2001]

ok. Look i have programmed many games and i know what models can run and what cant. i dont make highpolygon models for games

i make highpolygon models for movies pictures exc

i am not going to respect u unless u can understand how a game works

[starboarder2001]

http://home.zonnet.nl/arzapol/weap3.html

http://home.zonnet.nl/arzapol/weap2.html


go here to see real game models

[starboarder2001]

the pistols are sweet but they are too highpolygon to be used in a game. They may run in a game but not well. but your skinning job is awsome :).

1000 polygons for just a small pistol thats crazy. most of my gun models have about 300 polygons. A gun is a simple model and does not need 1000 polygons. A biped model may need 1000-2000 polygons depending on the type. The skins are great but U need to lower the polygons by about half.

[starboarder2001]

check this out.

its kindof mediumpolygon

[starboarder2001]

check this out.

[starboarder2001]

check this out

[starboarder2001]

check out this image

[starboarder2001]

check out this other angel

[starboarder2001]

check this pistol out i made.

[starboarder2001]

check it out from another view

[starboarder2001]

check it out from back view

[starboarder2001]

check it out from another view

:)fdsa

[starboarder2001]

check out this weapon

[starboarder2001]

check it out from side view again

[starboarder2001]

check out the uzi

[starboarder2001]

highpolygon - good for looks bad for games also makes file larger

lowpolygon - looks ok but runs good in games and helps rendering time

picture skins - just prefrence but it makes it look like the real thing. not good when designign something that is not real.

drawn skins - just prefrence but they dont look as real as the picture skins but if u are designing something that is not real it is best.

[Blazestorm]

Highpolygon - Every game uses over 500 for a weapon model, besides quake 1 and lower. Only exception is things such as a crowbar

Lowpolygon - meant for games lower than quake 1, Your models should use 150 at most.

2000+ polys is FINE for a weapon model. Yes file size is larger, but jeez spend the extra 100 bucks and get a 80 gig hd.

Picture Skins - Are for reference, it takes NO skill at ALL to take a photoskin and slap it onto a model

Drawn skins - Compare my pistol to yours. What looks better. MINE, cause I started from scratch using TRUE techniques.


Give me one of your models in 3D Studio Max form along with the mesh I and I will make a skin for it. (Paintball Marker)

You are a 14 year old who has been making models for 2 weeks. Learn how to make models and skins. A Real model requires atleast 500 to look HALF DETAILED. Skins require work, not found from some internet site and slapped on in 2 seconds.

How much time did you spend on those models? 30-40 minutes? Probably less

How much time did I spend on that pistol? 10-20 HOURS JUST FOR THE SKIN.

[Blazestorm]

Were thee made with photoskins? No... These are the base models for COUNTERSTRIKE the #1 ONLINE GAME ...

http://www.counter-strike.net/images/weapons/beretta.jpg
http://www.counter-strike.net/images/weapons/m4.jpg
http://www.counter-strike.net/images/weapons/sg550.jpg

Those took time and effort. Yours took 5 minutes of shaping a box and 2 minutes of finding a picture to mold into the model.

I would KILL the person that would even ANIMATE those into counterstrike or any other computer game.

[PGA1234]

OMG nice work on those last guns. Oh yeah and what program do you use blazestorm? That weapon before last of starboarders look exactly like the pulse rifle off of AVP2.

[Blazestorm]

I didn't make those... those are the guns used for counter-strike... =)

[RichardL926]

he didnt make those those are made from the people that designed the weapons on cs

[starboarder2001]

u are a 13 year old that has been modeling/drawing for probobly less. I have been modeling for 1 year. 500 polygons isnt bad for a game but 1000 is rediculess.

Learn before u speak.

[starboarder2001]

u act like u know every thing but u cant model nothing.

[starboarder2001]

I have a 80 gig hd.

p4 1.8

64mg video card

512mg ram

[starboarder2001]

hate to tell u but most games use lowpolygon and some highpolygon models.

rainbow 6
rainbow 6: rogue spear

ghost recon

descent 3

half life

[starboarder2001]

I bet they dont look like that in the game. Those 3 images are cool but wayyyy to highpolygon.

i think 700 is the limit but your pushing it.

[Dan Silverman]

For some reason I was asked to come here and reply to this thread. I am not sure why, neither am I sure why I am taking the time to do this. I suppose the reason was because I do some graphical work in real-time 3D modeling and level design.

In any case, I have not read all that was said here. I don't know if I could stomach reading three pages of this stuff. I also don't know which one of the nick-named people here know me, so I am not taking sides with anyone.

When it comes to creating polygonal models for real time 3D games the number of polys that a person uses will depend on several factors. Typically the number of polys is not dependent on the engine, but on the target platform. If you are targeting a PIV 2 GHz PC with a 32 MB video card (GeForce2 or Radean) then your polygonal budget will certainly be different than if you are targeting a PII 300 MHz system with an 8 MB TNT card. These things need to be considered when developing your models.

Another thing that needs to be considered is the importance of the model. If the model is seen all the time and up close, then you might want to allow a higher budget for the polygons for that model. If the model is not that important, then lower the polygonal budget.

If the model frequently appears on screen with numerous other models (like a swarm of bees attacking someone) then you also want to reduce the polygonal budget for the individual models.

There are simply a lot of factors to take into consideration with each model that needs to be created.

Basically, low-poly models are still being used. Even take a look at the screen shots from Unreal2, one of the hotest engines awaiting to be released. Here is a sample screen shot from Unreal2 that I marked up a little:

http://www.web2d3.com/forum/unreal.jpg

While this is not a low-poly model in the form of Quake1 or half-life, this is not a high-polygonal model either. If you look at the red circled areas you will see definate edges and points. The others are hidden by a shading technique that rounds out polygonal edges (a common technique). So, here we have one of the most anticipated games and game engines and they are still using (relatively) low polygonal models. I am guessing (and this is purely a guess) that this one measures in at around 200-2500 polys and maybe less. If only 2000+ polys are being used for a fairly major character like this SKAARJ, then I certainly wouldn't spend 2000 polys on a weapon.

The trick to making RT3D (real-time 3D) models look good is a fine balance between positioning of the polygons and how you skin/texture it. I'll try to give an example, though a rather poor one (so please excuse me).

I am working on an archaeological reconstruction of an ancient site using a real-time 3D engine. The idea is to recreate the site as accurately as possible and allow the user to experience the place as if they were there when it was new. In one area of this site is a place with 222 columns with golden capitals on top. It is very possible to view all 222 columns! This can present a problem because too many polys on screen (either models or level geometry) can slow things down to a crawl on many PCs. So, in order to have my project run on as many PCs within my target platform as possible, I have to consider how many polys I use for a specific thing.

Here is a screen shot of the capital model:

http://www.web2d3.com/forum/c3.jpg

The skin is not at all completed as this is only for a test run to see if I could effectively run a level with 222 columns (8-sided cylinders) and 222 capitals. To keep the poly count down I created this capital as an extremely low-poly model. There are only 104 polys in it. Even so, with 104 polys there is a possibility of viewing all 222 at a time and thus seeing 23,000 polys just from the capitals! Yes, I will be using LOD and all that other stuff as well (for those of you that care:D).

Here are 2 shots with all 222 columns and capitals. These are not anything remotely close to a final release or anything like that. Let's face it, they are very ugly (IMO). These were TEST levels created in about 30 minutes simply to see what the frame rate would be when all 222 columns and capitals were in place.

http://www.web2d3.com/forum/c1.jpg

http://www.web2d3.com/forum/c2.jpg

They illustrate a point, though. Wouldn't 16-sided columns look better? Wouldn't a capital with 500 or 1500 polys look better and more realistic? Yes! But then even a PIV 2 GHz would be viewing a slide show and not a real-time experience. Also, the capitals are not the center of attention. It's not like someone is going to be climbing up the column to view them up close (nor could they). So, these decisions force me to use low-polygonal models for this situation.

The guns that Blazestorm displays are not high-polygonal models at all and are well suited for real-time 3D.

Starboarder2001 shows a lot of different weapons that he has created. They LOOK like they have too few polygons, but that may not be the case. It may simply be HOW they were modeled and the skin that was used. A better constructed model and a better skin would certainly improve it. Obviously the guys from CS know how to use each poly to get the best from it. Starboarder2001 still needs to work on his modeling technique some (IMHO).

Well, I am sure I have bored all of you to tears. Once again, someone from this board asked me to come here. I wasn't not really told why, but was asked to respond. So, I glanced through to the topic and gave my 2 cents.

[FPS 300]

Well, I am sure I have bored all of you to tears.

K this is kind of a very off subject thing, but I personally loved your little speech, probably because I am considering working on 3d modeling as a profession (although I'm too lazy to start). Lol keep the info coming :)

[Blazestorm]

Well thx Dan, I was trying to say something like that but it didn't come out right

But tell me, do you think he needs a little more detail in his models? and to actually learn how to make his skins by hand, because every single game out there had someone draw them by hand.

anyway

here's a high poly model =)

btw Star, I've been mapping for halflife for 3 years and skinning for 1.

Yes I was making halflife maps when I was 10 :D

[starboarder2001]

thats what i was trying to say. just to me i thought that 1000 polygons for that pistol was a little too much for just the gun because i would rather putt more detail into the players and not the gun.


guess just prefrence.;)

[Crash Danger]

of course there's always computerized movies where you can have as many polygons as you want :) No need to worry about people with slow computers...

[starboarder2001]

After this I have become more interested in the programming part of game development. Here are some screen shots of some little demo scenes I slapped together to show the engines capabilities. I wrote it in c.

http://www.vision-software.org/darkcloud

The paintball game I was working on needed allot of stuff to be re-modeled and re-programmed. When I was first starting it I was to inexperienced to write a good quality game. I felt that It would be better to start from scratch than to release a sloppy written game. I also didn't like programming the game in a scripting language. :| I still plan to finish it...I just haven't decided which engine to use. Mine isn't developed enough, but I could use it. Genesis is more of a indoor engine. Tourqe I would have to use a scripting language, but at least I have the source to the engine. 3D Game Studio is easy to use and I have experience using it, but still I would have to use a scripting language. :| Another problem is that It is a work load for me because I have to do ALL the Modeling and Programming by myself. I have a very talented friend who can skin very well, but cannot model. I am hoping I can get him started modeling to save me some work.

http://www.vision-software.org/spraynpray


(oh and now my opinion for a good polycount for a gun or weapon would be 1000-2000 polygons. A main player would be 3000-5000. There are alot of other factors that can change the polycount I would use. Since SNP is my first large game project I plan to try to keep the polycount down a little below normal just so I won't have to worry about FPS problems later in development. I dont want to redo any models because 10 5000 polygon models cause a huge fps drop. Think about it a 5on5 game could cause problems were 1 medium polygon model doesnt. A 10on10 would be worse. You just have to think about that I expect 20 players,20 markers, 5 refs, and 20-50 bunkers to be in the players view most of the time.)

[Fixion]

Dude, I have a half done 3d engine that I wrote all by my lonesome :D (and help of alot of tutorials). I could help you out. Do you mind sending me the models?

Ways to reach me?:
AIM: disasm3
MSN: disasm3@hotmail.com
Email: fixion@comcast.net

Edit: A good way to keep your fps up to a reasonable level is to use a good octree system and frustum culling in the engine. I have the frustum culling code done, but not the octree system. I was thinking of using preoptimized octrees for my maps... just a thought.

[i like tictacs]

OH MY GOD RESURRECTION!

Anyway star, do you have any models we can see if you got better or not?

[FPS 300]

Holy crap, this is an old thread :(

Yeah, I want to see screenshots too!
And that alpha test!

[starboarder2001]

Originally posted by i like tictacs
Anyway star, do you have any models we can see if you got better or not?

To be honest I have spent most of my time programming. I haven't had much time to model. :) I still modeled some stuff for my demos, but didn't spend much time on them. I am really more interested in programming than modeling at this moment. I am pretty sure you saw the last models I did for SNP. I though the matrix model wasn't bad..It just was a very low polygon model. The main place it needed detail was the grip frame. In fact If I use that model I will definitely go back and add a little detail. It seems that allot of people think that I am going to start back working on SNP soon. I really don't know when I am going to start back working on it. I really want to plan out the development...I am not just going to jump right in the middle of it. :) The Engine I am writing is my main priority. :/

[Fixion]

How far are you in the engine? I'd like to see a demo if possible, just compile it and send it my way, or just take the debug build and send that my way. I'd really like to see that engine. What are you using DirectX or OpenGL?

[starboarder2001]

Originally posted by Fixion
How far are you in the engine? I'd like to see a demo if possible, just compile it and send it my way, or just take the debug build and send that my way. I'd really like to see that engine. What are you using DirectX or OpenGL?

I am not far compared to what I have planned for it.
I use OpenGL, and may add support for Direct3D in the future. I am going to use DirectX for sound and input though.

here is a link to the source:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/darkcloud

[Fixion]

You wrote all that by yourself? Why did you chose to use c?

[starboarder2001]

Originally posted by Fixion
You wrote all that by yourself? Why did you chose to use c?

Yes. :)

I chose c because when I started the project I was not real comfortable with OOP. :|

[spyderlover321]

here's a nice lookin model

[spyderlover321]

another

[spyderlover321]

cocker

oh by the way, these are all from maximum velocity paintball. mod for ut2k3

[i like tictacs]

The cocker is nice, the others are meh.