distance of impulses

[dynorock1]

what kind of distance are you guys impulses getting??

[cris8762]

More distance than an angel, but not as far as a timmy with almost as much range as a shocker but even anywhere near a cockers. And the trajectory is a bit better than a bushmasters, but not as flat as a novas :D

[monkeybacon00]

the distance of ALL paintball guns are the same if they chrono at the same speed, or fps. the impulse has no greater range than any other marker.

[krzybum420]

yes. but flat trejectory, every gun is different.

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by krzybum420
yes. but flat trejectory, every gun is different.


THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FLAT TRAJECTORY OMG. EVERY GUN HAS THE SAME TRAJECTORY. it just feels how the gun points. duh. now get your facts stright. :atten:

[monkeybacon00]

fo real. a gun has no control over the paintball once it leaves the barrel, all guns will have the same trajectory and distance if they chrono the same, unless you have some back spin on it or something like the flatline barrel for tippman (and autocockers, eeewww)

[StealthElephant]

some guns shoot farther/flatter....they just do...it's not huge...but you can tell that some of the better guns shoot better....

we've had this discussion a million times but ill explain it again real quick

your assuming that there is no air resistance, and that the internals of every gun work the same...that's just not the case

a marker like a shocker will have less recoil then a tippmann....trust me...i have seen an angel first hand....the thing kicks alot less then my tippmann....my tippmann can hit the same 6 inch grouping from 25 yards if i take my time....as soon as i start ripping 5-6BPS...my accuracy goes to hell because there is so much kick....

all guns do not shoot the same....i plan on upgrading to an electro soon and im looking at everything...shockers, imps, bushys, matrices, and timmys....from what i hear shockers/matrices have the least kick of the 5.

as for internals....there is a reason guns like cockers/bushys have things like high flow valves and the "red valve" for the bushmaster. the way they are built internally allows them to shoot more consistently...consistency = precision = accuracy, you can give a spyder the same regulator, same N2 tank, same paint/barrel match, but a spyder is a cheap blowback, it will still have alot of kick, it's internals are still low quality not designed for firing 10BPS. you fire a shocker at 10BPS and fire a spyder at 10BPS i can promise you the spyder will spew those 10BOS (if you can even get it to 10...maybe an electro frame)


ignore tictacs and monkey dyno...crisis sounds like he has shot many different guns and that he has firsthand experience

all guns do not shoot the same...at 1BPS maybe close, but when ripping 10BPS all guns shoot differently, the guns ability to shoot at a consistent FPS is NOT just the barrel/paint and regulator, it's the internals of the gun and how it it designed.

[cris8762]

...uh....... i was being sarcastic and joking......... but i have shot most of those guns except the nova....... learn to recognise a joke when you see it

[i like tictacs]

stealth, obviously when you start cranking a gun at 10 bps they will have differnt arc...WELL THATS BECAUSE THEY ARE MOVING!! now make a pool of cement, sticke the guns and tanks halfway in, let the cement dy, the guns will be steady. now shoot them at 10 bps. no difference. dont tell him to ignore me because im right.

[Tempest261]

yes. but flat trejectory, every gun is different.

pick up a ****ing physics book... idiot.

[StealthElephant]

so you buy guns based on how they perform in a vice? no thnx...physics is for a system with no resistance....better guns shoot more consistently...all guns do not shoot as far/flat.

[monkeybacon00]

I wasnt talking about that, i just meant regularly shooting it in your hand.

I still hold my belief until im proven wrong.

[The Legend]

A Ferarri and a Beatle are both going 205 miles per hour (fps). Which one is going faster?

All guns shoot the same distance.

[StealthElephant]

On a 1 shot basis....all guns are the same. All guns shoot the first ball about the same distance with about the same accuracy.

However I wasn't arguing the accuracy of closed tests...I was trying to inform based on REAL use of the marker. Yes...all guns CAN shoot the exact same when set up.

The Spyder's first shot is JUST as accurate as a Shockers first shot.

Now take both markers on a COncept field...starting ripping 10 BPS like you would if you were REALLY playing paintball. The Spyder will spew the paint all over, the groupings will be terrible, the range and trajectory no where near as good as the Shockers.

Maybe I used the wrong wording...all guns have the same accuracy....but high end guns are more consistent. You get better consistency from precision. Precision = Consistency = Accuracy.

I mean legend...come on...your ROS against my m98c.....your gonna tell me if we both took 20 balls and shot at a target that my tippy will hit with the same grouping as your RAT? I just dont' think so....the kick on my tippmann after firing as fast as I can for 5 seconds spews balls ALL OVER, I'm talking...I shoot at someone from 25yards...I have shots going 5 feet over their head from the kick on the gun.
For purposes of BUYING the better gun....high end markers are more accurate then low ends. They simply are, they are built to higher standards, they have better internals, they are designed for lower operating pressures. They perform better, they shoot straigter and farther during play then lower ends do.

Honestly....the fact that you even care how the gun performs in a vice with 1 shot is retarded. People buy markers for their performance....Angels, Shockers, Cockers, Imps, Matrices etc all perform better. They shoot faster, straighter, and farther then low end blow back semi's do. End of story, take the guns on the field you will see which ones shoot in closer groupings...you don't buy markers based on how they handle 1 shot...you pick the marker with the least kick and best accuracy while ripping 10+BPS in the middle of a game. I am right, you are wrong.

Physics is correct, in ideal conditions all guns would shoot the same...but I wasn't making my comments on ideal conditions...I'm talking about how guns perform when you use them how they are mean't to be used. Which is not 1 shot in a vice.

There is confusion on the definition of accuracy. You are defining accuracy as what all guns CAN shoot, so since your Spyder can shoot just as well as an Angel on the FIRST shot, you define accuracy as all being the same.

I define accuracy based on in game use. Higher end guns shoot in closing groupings during play...if a Spyder could REALLY shoot 10BPS JUST as ACCURATE and in the SAME GROUPINGS as a Shocker...why do people by the expensive guns? Because In the middle of a game the Shocker shoots in closer groupings...which makes it APPEAR more accurate. But if my friend asked me which is more accurate and which gun would be better for tournement play, a Spyder or a RAT...I would tell him the RAT. It WILL shoot more accurately. You are trying to define accuracy based on the GUN ALONE, not taking into fact recoil and other variables.

[Awhislyle]

We're talking about paintball guns, not deer rifles.

[monkeybacon00]

yes stealth, BUT thats not what he was asking. We were simply answering his question and you were going into a bunch of nonsense that doesnt quite relate to the topic, but does a little bit.

he was actually talking about DISTANCE not shot groupings, everyone knows that if a BE blade and an angel chrono the same, the BE wont be near as accurate, but as for distance, then yes they will go just as far.

[Replicator11]

All guns shoot the same if they shoot the same speed. Come on people its common sense. Elephant We aren't talking about Accuracy, We are talking about Distance, Much different things. L8r

[Tempest261]

velocity = time X distance

therefore...

distance = velocity / time

If your velocity and time (duh) are the same, then your distance must be the same. There's no way around it.

[StealthElephant]

you guys have no idea what your talking about

distance and accuracy are directly related

if your now admitting that some guns are more accurate then others then your admitting that some guns shoot farther

what is the shortest way to get to a destination? A STRAIGHT LINE!

if your shots are not as straight and yoru groupings are not as tight, you loose effective range....so while a Shockers grouping is tighter, you can aim at targets that are farther away because it maintains it's accuracy longer....if your accuracy is worse then your shots will curve earlier...thus you won't have as much distance

any gun at 25 feet will hit the same target...at 100feet however your accuracy begins to come in....if a shocker can maintain a close grouping at 100ft but a spyder can't because the shots curve all over then you have less distance/accuracy with the spyder....

you make it sound like i dont' know what im talking about....don't throw physics formulas at me....ive taken physics...i don't need your lectures....my information was relavant and correct.....it gets on my nerves that people just don't understand this stuff....it's so simple

[0shark0]

"you guys have no idea what your talking about"

First off, you are the one that made the question more than "how far does a impulse shoot" or whatever

"distance and accuracy are directly related"

Um, I can get one of my spyders to shoot faster (thus farther)than either of my impulses, so my spyder is more accurate? Consistancy would be more important.

"if your now admitting that some guns are more accurate then others then your admitting that some guns shoot farther"

No, that would be admitting that some guns are more consistant.

"what is the shortest way to get to a destination? A STRAIGHT LINE!"

Projectiles traveling in a straight line?? And you took physics?

if your shots are not as straight and yoru groupings are not as tight, you loose effective range....so while a Shockers grouping is tighter, you can aim at targets that are farther away because it maintains it's accuracy longer....if your accuracy is worse then your shots will curve earlier...thus you won't have as much distance

This is consistancy, not accuracy. Quick lessen as well, your shots curve the moment the exit the barrel. Its called gravity.

[Awhislyle]

which is longer a V with each line 1 inch or a straight line that 2 inches long

[StealthElephant]

They are all related....consistency is accuracy, precision is consistency....better guns are more precise...which inherently makes them more accurate. When I say accurate I mean shot to shot consistency, when someone asks which gun is more accurate they want to know what gun will hit the target the most often at the longest range.

I was speaking of distance with the same FPS...you obviously didn't understand my wording or you wouldn't have made that comment.

Yes, they curve down...that will not effect the range...9.8 meters per second...a paintball at 300FPS is going about 204MPH....it doesn't have the time to drop significantly when shooting at a target in optimal range.

Yes, the more consistent gun shoots more accurately. CONSISTENCY = ACCURACY, they are the same thing.

[i like tictacs]

sup guys, i jsut got back from target. i bought a flame retardent suit. carry on.

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by i like tictacs
sup guys, i just got back from target. i bought a flame retardent suit. carry on.

[0shark0]

If you meant distance at the same fps then you are dead wrong.

A paintball shot from any gun traveling at the same speed will travel the same distance.

Thus: A paintball shot from any gun traveling at the same speed will travel the same distance.

[Awhislyle]

when you wrote "distance/accuracy with a spyder" did you mean effective range?

[0shark0]

Awhislyle, he didn't say distance is related to effective range. He said distance is directly related to accuracy.

This means the farther it shoots the more accurate it is.

I don't agree with it so you may want to ask stealth how this happens.

[StealthElephant]

by distance i mean't the distance it goes before veering from it's target...the guy who asked the distance of the impulse mean't effective distance......i can only assume he was wondering how far it could shoot while still hitting the target....cause technically you could lob it to get some more distance....

by the same token when i say accuracy i mean the shot to shot consistency of a marker to hit the same spot...yes, inherently all guns are just as accurate, but telling someone who wants to buy a new that every gun has equal accuracy is half true and half false, yes every marker does have the same accuracy TECHNICALLY because they do all shoot the same....however it is NOT true because if you take 2 different guns on the field...1 of them is going to shoot farther and straighter....

i think this has actually just been a huge misunderstanding....and it's given me a coronary.....i hope you understand i what i was trying to explain....

i was answering in a manner that was useful to the question....when someone asks what gun is more accurate they want to know which gun and why....not hear that every gun is the same because if that was the case no one would buy a 1000$ angel they would get a cheaper semi blowback. saying that every gun is just as accurate is technically true, but it doesn't help answer a question at all....from the same token i was trying to answer it in a useful way....explain WHY some guns APPEAR to be more accurate.....which doesn't make sense...how can a gun APPEAR to be more accurate, either 1 gun shoots straighter or it doesn't....so for simplicity sakes i was saying that some guns are more accurate.

hopefully this can be the end of this....

[cerialkiller123]

i just read this whole argument and i have to say i totally agree with 95% of what stealth said

[StealthElephant]

if your shots are not as straight and yoru groupings are not as tight, you loose effective range....so while a Shockers grouping is tighter, you can aim at targets that are farther away because it maintains it's accuracy longer....if your accuracy is worse then your shots will curve earlier...thus you won't have as much distance

Yes Shark, I did specify I was talking about effective range. Your not interpretting what I'm saying the right way....you can't even rate distance because if I wanted to get more distance I could just lob the ball...which would be completely pointless. Of course it's effective range.

Same thing with accuracy....sure all guns shoot the first shot the same...so yes you COULD say that all guns shoot the same. But that doesn't help someone decide what gun to buy...that's not what they want to hear.

Your defining accuracy to the gun only....put the gun in a vice...fire them both...they both shoot the same. In PERFECT conditions....they shoot the same....so yes, you COULD say they all shoot the same.

A person buying a new gun wants to know what gun is more accurate when used by a HUMAN....so while each individual GUN shoots the same....you have to factor in recoil...which humans can't compensate for as well. So while you are STRICTLY making your statement on the GUN ALONE BEING THE SAME ACCURACY, I'm commenting on the GUN IN USE BY A HUMAN IN REAL PLAY.

That's useless lab data....I want to know how the gun is going to shoot when I use it. That is what people want to know when they buy a gun. When they ask which gun is more accurate, they want to know how accurate the gun is when THEY are PLAYING with it. Not how JUST the gun alone performs in a vice.

[gshipe88]

Darn, I was bored and decided to read this forum and got so into it that I read the whole thing. Very interesting. I must agree with elephant, but what the hell are you guys doing playing paintball. You should all have gone to school to be lawyers, I think the person who asked the question is quite satisfied with the answers. Can we argue about something else now?

[StealthElephant]

law school would require studying....i think i failed algebraII for the year.....not cool at all.....studying is for losers...so is sleep and eating....only the weak sleep :)

arguing about accuracy on PBreview.com forums....now that's a great way to spend my time:D

seriously tho...the only reason i cared about the thread at all was because i hate it when someone asks a genuine question looking for a HELPFUL answer...and someone just says something like

the distance of ALL paintball guns are the same

That isn't helpful at all....no one wants to read that...they want a real answer

[0shark0]

First off, you said distance and accuracy are directly related. You didn't mention effective range until a few sentances later.

Yes, I realize if you lob a ball it will go further. The fact remains a paintball traveling at the same velocity, shot from a gun at the same angle to the ground, will travel the same distance. A paintball doesn't care what gun it is shot from.

I'm not saying that all guns shoot the same or anything. You are trying to say that some guns shoots farther, even if the paintball travels the same velocity as another, it will go further. That cannot be true.

I'm commenting on how far a ball will travel, that being directly proportional to its velocity assuming the angle its shot at is the same.

If you want to talk about humans shooting, how many variables do you want to account for that effect accuracy? A person will be the largest factor when it comes to accuracy. There are so many differant factors that can't be accounted for when a person shoots, and they will be differant for each person. A gun will operate the same no matter who or what shoots it.

As far as people asking how a gun will shoot for them, no one knows the answer except for THAT person when they actually shoot THAT gun.

If you want to continue this via emails or pm's, I'm game but I'm not going to clutter the forum anymore. I know, as I'm sure you do as well, that we are talking about two slightly differant things.

[dynorock1]

so much BS being flung around here. Ok im assuming none of you are physics professors, nor am i. The problem here, physics is based on a closed environment.(that would be an area with no gravity and nothing else affecting the object in any way). Yes paint may come out of a gun going the same distance, but because of the difference of internals, and the way bolts work, trajectories are all different, also making the balls spin in a different direction and all sorts of things goin on, now i know for a fact from years of dear hunting that different guns have different trajectories even if they are shooting the exact same fps. Now if you go out to the field, take your impulse and chrono it at the exact same as a cocker/shocker, then you sit them right next to each other and shoot, im gonna guess that the shocker/cocker is going to shoot furthur, now i dont have any formulas or anything to back this up. Everyone is free to believe what they want.

So back to the original question...

So everyone agrees, impulse= better distance than an angel, but less than an impulse/cocker???

[monkeybacon00]

yes stealth i said that, BUT i gave a little bit to back up my answer. no i didnt go all in depth like you did (which i might add bored me to death :D ) but dont go quoting me on half a sentence and ridicule me, ok? Im a lazy *****ed 15 year old, even though i dont know all the big fancy words and explanations that you do, im just stating what I KNOW, whether it be right or wrong, i didnt do it to be flamed. and since I know nothing (apparently youve tried to imply that to everybody), i was just giving an answer that seemed logical to me, i didnt think about physics too much just about, well ya know......... ugh hard to explain. :crazy:

[cris8762]

once again..here is my answer: More distance than an angel, but not as far as a timmy with almost as much range as a shocker but even anywhere near a cockers. And the trajectory is a bit better than a bushmasters, but not as flat as a novas

:D

[dynorock1]

cris, i totatlly agree with you, although i havnt shot a nova, so i dont know about aht part.:P

[raycastranger]

ok ill clear this up the moderator can back me up if they want

NOT ALL PAINTBALL GUNS SHOOT THE SAME DISTANCE EVEN IF THEY ARE AT THE SAME FPS

reason.......... a closed bolt shoots the ball when it is forward in the breach, being fired only by air, which creates a pocket around the ball decreaseing air resistance and increasing range such as an autococker

open bolts fire from the back of the breach using a combination of air and bolt speed to fire the ball thus not producing a pocket of air

added to the fact, different closed bolts can fire different amounts of air, depending on how fast the air is released through the bolt
exp. autocockers have a much different air consumption then shockers

then you have to take psi into factor less air at higher psi will do the same as lots of air at lower psi because the air will expand to normal

hope ive been a help

raycastranger@aol.com if you have any suggestions or wanna give me some stuff :)

[Goblin]

ok, first off i would like to say that YES higher end markers DO shoot farther! ive seen and experienced it first hand! i was at my local field. i have a crappy m98 with a 14" AA. i was firing at a guy with a cocker about 150 feet away. i tried to hit him but my balls keep falling low. i aimed higher but the balls would get broken by trees. the guy with the cocker aims right at me and the balls go whizzing OVER my head. they kept going into the next field. our field has a 280 fps rule. i was shooting at anywhere from 270-290fps because tippyus are terrible inconsistent (when i chronoed it went from 190-280 without adjusting velocity). i know he wasnt shooting over 300. same with a guy with a shocker. he was in a bunker with me. i would shoot and it would drop off. i could watch his paint go and it would travel much farther. i dont care what you physics guys say, im sticking with the fact that higher end markers do shoot farther. blah blah blah.

[green_goblin]

hmm i dont know what i think about that but its nice to see another goblin :D

[Awhislyle]

In physics a paintball would hit the ground at the same time if it was dropped at barrel height or shot out. So for a ball to travel farther it must be going faster right?

[Dark Cloud]

TALK TO A TEACHER!

[Goblin]

ask any player whos used tippys and spyders, and shocker and cockers. i bet they will will tell you cockers and shockers shoot farther.

[dynorock1]

the problem with teachers is that they only know physics rules they have not experienced paintball, and therefore dont understand how different markers work, so they cant factor taht into what they tell you.

[Imptastic]

Stealth is right. Simply put,

****tier internals = inconsistent shots
inconsistent shots = balls diverge from target to either side

therefore if the paintball can only travel 150 feet before hitting the ground when fired at a velocity of 300 fps, then when aiming at a target 150 feet away with a crap gun, your shot will hit the ground in front of a better gun because that shot flies straight to the target when yours curves on the way, meaning that your paintball may have to travel lets say 170 feet to hit the target 150 feet away. And if it can't travel 170 feet because of your so called "physics", it will hit the ground.

In conclusion, better guns have a farther range, the only trouble is figuring out which is the better gun. If better guns weren't more accurate and therefore have a longer range, we would all have E-99s which can shoot just as fast as an impulse, and have several hundred extra dollars to spend on paint.

[Goblin]

i wrote a letter to smartparts recently. i asked them some things about the shocker, and they told me that in fact the shocker does shoot farther than most other markers. i dont think they are being biased.

[SkillzMasta]

You guys are wrong......certain guns do shoot father then other guns at same fps.....because evrything is taken into facot....pressure bolt ....not all guns the same in order for that theory to be true they must have same EVERYTHING.......dur....and dont even worth arguing ....yes it does seem by physics its not possible but there are different factors ...... that my word of the day

[cris8762]

Originally posted by dynorock1
cris, i totatlly agree with you, although i havnt shot a nova, so i dont know about aht part.:P

More distance than an angel, but not as far as a timmy with almost as much range as a shocker but even anywhere near a cockers. And the trajectory is a bit better than a bushmasters, but not as flat as a novas

read that again.......i was joking buddy!........please tell me you didnt think i was serious?!?!!!?:rolleyes: :eyes:

[Goblin]

lol, yea. he said that befor. i mean cmon, "not as far as a timmy with almost as much range as a shocker but even anywhere near a cockers" he says "but even anywhere near a cockers"!!! how cant you tell hes kidding! that makes no sense at all!

[Tempest261]

You guys are wrong......certain guns do shoot father then other guns at same fps.....because evrything is taken into facot....pressure bolt ....not all guns the same in order for that theory to be true they must have same EVERYTHING.......dur....and dont even worth arguing ....yes it does seem by physics its not possible but there are different factors ...... that my word of the day


lol.. different factors. you mean those fairies that add velocity to the ball AFTER it leaves the barrel. Man, EPBO has been out of those for WEEKS! Common FOM! I need my faries.

[Awhislyle]

to the guy who was talkin about bolt pressure and stuff. Its not gonna go farther if its going the same speed. To go farther it musr be going faster or pointed upwards

[SkillzMasta]

tempest im not gonna argue but im right ....and i dont care what you think....cause ill always be a better paintballer then you :laugh:

[LiLKuBBs]

omg john ahaha... you sound so dumb and arrogant.. dont listen to skillzmasta... hes new to paintball and I had to teach him how to get his impulse working... I don't even have an impulse yet....

[SkillzMasta]

who the hell are you :confused: first off mr.newb you dont have a say cause u know nothing .... i work at feilds every weekend and i know more then you probably ....and finally once again i know im right :)

[spazdr]

Every gun is equal. Don't you know that Stingrays shoot just as good as a shocker!? It says so in your physics book. Don't waste your money on a high end electro, a spyder is just as good in your physics book.

[0shark0]

God I hate doing this but.....

Name the differant forces on a paintball as it travels through the air.

More importantly, the forces exerted on the ball by the gun as the ball travels in the air.

Tell me what effect differant guns have on a paintball after the ball has left the barrel (be specific) In addition to that, tell me how these effects change from gun to gun.

[LiLKuBBs]

I think every gun does shoot different or else people wouldnt buy 1200 angels... There is no way EVERY gun shoots the same.. sorry bjut it's not possible... And if you think that shark, then why did you buy an impulse if it will shoot the same as a brass eagle stingray?

[0shark0]

Point out where I said all guns shoot the same. Point out where I said a stingray is as good as an Impulse or Angel. I'll save you the trouble, I never did.

People are trying to say that a gun shooting at 280 fps will shoot farther than one that shoots 280 fps, as long as it is more expensive or something.

Some guns are more CONSISTANT, but all guns shooting the same velocity, shoot the same distance, if they are shot at the same angle.

Again, show me what forces act on a ball after it has left the barrel that are differant from gun to gun. Show me how one ball traveling the same velocity will go farther than another traveling the same velocity. I better include that ball spin and barrel angle are equal for each gun to eliminate using a flatline or something.

[SkillzMasta]

you guys are still wrong me and kubbs are right......dude i work at the field i shoot many guns ;.......ill use this as an example
a autococker and an angel --- the autococker has a flatter trajectory and angel has a downward arc , thus , the autococker shoots father ...... even though it may leave the gun at same speed they have different internals which make up different factors ........why is it so hard for you people to undersatnd this

[bob dole]

its so hard to understand because you're wrong. There is no way two guns shooting at the same velocity, with the same arc, etc. can have different ranges.

[SkillzMasta]

OMG READ THE WHOLE THING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SAID THEY HAD DIFFERENT ARCS EVERY GUN HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ARC THATS WHY THEY ALL SHOOT DIFFERENT THATS WHY NO GUN THE SAME DO U ALL HAVE BRAINS THE SIZE OF PEANUTS !!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD

[bob dole]

Dude, I'm talking about the arc YOU give your gun, ie. if you point it up, blah blah blah. Paintball guns do NOT shoot different ranges assuming they are shooting at the same speed.

[SkillzMasta]

yes they do .....and im not even goin to explain again because that is my word of all mighty wisdom and soon im going to have to start charging for it (p.s. guns still shoot differetn distance even if they moutned both at 50degrees .....cause the guns have an arc of there own and each is unique.....

[Bluntside9]

i always almost blow up on people who come back from playing paintball for the first time and are psyched cuz they got shot... i ask when i see the huge *** bruise how far they got shot from and junk and they almost always say i got shot w/ an auto-cocker or an angel or some awesome gun and then they have no ****ing clue about the fact that an angel shooting 290 and a stingray shooting 290 will feel the same....

[SkillzMasta]

yes every noob thinks that a hihger end gun shoots harder and hurts more.....but thats why they have chronos and refs like me :)

[Bluntside9]

oh yeah and the only reason some guns shoot further is because of the action of the gun.. a cocker shoots the ball when it has no spin and the ball gets hit w/ air when its at rest.. an open bolt when it moves forward rolls the ball into the barrel and then gets some top spin on the ball and will have a shorter range.. also like a flatline (which sucks im sorry..) will almost float the ball because of the back spin.... the reason im so agains the flatline is because the balls are less accurate than jsut arcing and you can lean around a corner w/o the ball flying way wide and curvin and probly hittin your teamate.... they are a good idea but its too hard to get it work consitantly...

[Bluntside9]

yeah i ref too....

[0shark0]

Perception.

You think that gun A shoots farther than gun B. The truth is, there is no way for you to know that gun A shoots farther than gun B unless you have the same exact balls, the same exact barrels, the same exact velocity, and at the same exact angle.

In your all mighty reffing duties do you meet those conditions? I didn't think so.

Again, show to me the forces on a ball after it leaves the barrel. Prove your spin idea doesn't equalize in the barrel. I've shot many guns in the 9 years or so I've played, and have never found one gun to shoot farther than another that couldn't be easily explained by velocity, angle, barrel etc.

[SkillzMasta]

im not gonna right another paragraph to argue but all i will say is that each gun is unique.;...and read above if u want to see what else i wrote im tired im bored and im not gonna argue end of story

[Goblin]

i agree with skillz 100%. i have a tippmann 98 custom. i was shooting downhill at a guy with a cold fusion cocker. my balls would keep landing just short of him. if i aimed higher my paint would break in the trees. he saw me and started shooting uphill at me. his balls flew over my head and continued for another couple feet. an autococker, shocker etc, will shoot further because they have a flatter trajectory. there is no real force on a ball after it leaves the barrel except for 1. ball spin and 2. wind. i cant really explain why cockers and shockers shoot further but they just do. i dont care what you say, thats my theory and im stickin to it.

[Goblin]

oh yea, his velocity was same if not lower than mine.

[Army]

hahahahaha! OK OK OK...I couldn't stop laughing for a while there:D

All of you that believe that any gun shoots farther than another, with the SAME SPEED AND NO ALTERING FACTORS....are MORONS!!


OsharkO, you are 100% right on man. Nothing will alter the trajectory or speed once the ball leaves the barrel.

All you guys who think your internals have anything to do with the ball in flight...are MORONS!!!

Which one of you morons was talking about consistancy? Got proof? Show us, don't talk about how the 98lb weakling can't shoot his Spyder better than the Hulkamaniac with an Impy. That's the dumbest comparison I have EVER read in this age old argument. You simply point out the inconsistancies in the SHOOTER, not the gun! You want consistancy? Do a wave form of a full auto Emag at 20bps and measure the spikes... darn near a flatline, and NOTHING comes close.

Yes, high end guns are better guns...for those who appreciate well made products. But the crappy BE talon is da Kine for a newbie that only wants to play in the back yard. In other words; quit comparing apples and mushrooms:)

Just incase any of you morons still don't get it...300fps is the same, no matter how it gets there. Shot from a solid gold Angel, or twanged out of a sling-shot, the ball will go the same place if the aim is the same.

Prove me wrong, I dare you. I don't want to read about how "my buddy has this trick 'Cocker", I want real hard proof how your gun somehow defies the fact of physics. Do a real test, lock a number of guns in a gang vise so all are pointing the same, then shoot them. Take video too, so we all will see that all the balls will go the same distance. Romp on the trigger too, get that 10bps out of all the guns, as long as the balls are all going the same speed.....they will go the same distance!


Oh wait...AGD already did all this, with all the high end guns....guess what? Go ahead guess!.................Yup! All the guns went the same distance with the same accuracy! WOW, real life grabs ahold of physics and gives it a big hug:)


I have enjoyed reading most of the ignorance in this thread. Too bad you were too full of yourself to listen to the few that have a clue....and the facts.

[StealthElephant]

All guns shoot the same.

All guns do not perform the same.

All guns shoot exactly the same yes, but even tho one gun shoots the same as the next, if gun #1 has a huge kick to it, your shot is not straight, you cannot shoot straight when the gun kicks back, your shot goes off.

If your gun is kicking, your shots are not going straight, so the ball drops off to the side, it shoots the same distance, but it doesn't shoot the same distance straight.

Physics can't save you, there are too many factors. I have taken Physics, D=V*T isn't the only forumula in physics smart guy. Trust me, if all there was to Physics was D=V*T then I'd get an A not B's and C's. There are more forumulas then hair on your ***.

So you have the gun shooting at a certain speed, then factor in gravity at 9.8m/ps drop, then factor in the kick, so if you are aiming at something, you must reconfigure to see what effect that has on it, the gun SHOOTS the same, but the kick changes the target, so even tho you want to hit a certain target, the kick is changing your aim.

People want guns that shoot more consistently. So when someone asks "How far does a gun shoot" or "Which is more accurate" they don't want the moron answer, they want to know which one performs better.

Anyone who has shot multiple paintball guns knows they shoot differently and that some are better. Your maht can't save the fact that guns do shoot differently.

[defect]

0shark0 seems to be the only one here with the slightest lick of common sense and logical thinking. Just thought I'd share that. All of you people who think that the way a gun fires a ball affects how far the ball is going to go are wrong. It doesnt affect the accuracy either. Accuracy is a function of consistancy. Consistancy can be achieved with a good paint to barrel match and a reg. Distance is a function of velocity. Just because certain real life factors are removed from basic physics equations, does not make them invalid. Quite the contrary. They are very valid. No gun, by the way it operates can shoot any farther. Once the gun gets the ball to the desired velocity and it exits the barrel, the gun's job is done. It, in no way what-so-ever, can affect the ball once it has left the barrel. "Sure it can," you say. What magical force is acting on the ball? Things dont just move on their own, a force has to be applied to it.
Some people say stuff like Bluntside did. First off, to get a spin on something you have to strike it some distance from the center of gravity. If hit below the center of gravity, the ball will have back spin. If hit above, it will have top spin. But, if hit in the middle, the ball will not spin. The balls arent hit on the sides by paintball gun bolts. They are hit right in the middle. Hit in the middle = no spin! Besides that, Any spin that the ball might incur due to the bolt is almost totally negated by the friction from contact with the barrel.


I havent addressed all the ways you people are wrong yet. I simply do not have the time or the energy to deal with the monsterous, steaming piles of crap that you people spew. You have all bought into the hypes and myths that certain compaines have created to sell their products. I dont really blame you, These compainies did an excellent job spreading their myths that have become the de facto truth to many paintballers. There is hope. If people would stop being so closed minded and think a little.

And goblin, There is no possible way for that to be true. :) He had to be shooting much faster than you for his balls to be going farther.

[Kaiser Bob]

Stealh youre saying one thing which is all well and good, but yet some others take the argument and go to absurd lengths like:

'i agree with skillz 100%. i have a tippmann 98 custom. i was shooting downhill at a guy with a cold fusion cocker. my balls would keep landing just short of him. if i aimed higher my paint would break in the trees. he saw me and started shooting uphill at me. his balls flew over my head and continued for another couple feet. an autococker, shocker etc, will shoot further because they have a flatter trajectory. there is no real force on a ball after it leaves the barrel except for 1. ball spin and 2. wind. i cant really explain why cockers and shockers shoot further but they just do. i dont care what you say, thats my theory and im stickin to it.'

-Goblin

I mean come on, the differences in a guns consistancy will NOT do that and to think they would is retarded. Ill grant you consistancy may make a difference in inches, but not the 20 feet that some people seem to think... :pissed:

BTW- whoever said that open bolt guns impart top spin is wrong. Unless your balls are going right thru the barrel, most spin is cancelled out by friction.

[FactsOfLife]

wanna know the real reason autocockers shoot further?

they're SHINY.

here's proof:

Cockerboy has his ultra chromy cocker all shiny and looking tight.
Cockerboy takes a test shot and sees his paint flying off downrange.
Cockerboy gets distracted by his shiny gun and looks down at it.
Cockerboy remembers he took a shot.
Cockerboy can't see his paint anymore, it must have gone a mile for him to not see it anymore!

Thus shiny-ness once again repeals the laws of Physics and triumphs over all!


oh and BTW, please feel free to replace cockerboy with anybody that says one gun shoots further than another.
Repeal the laws of physics and then come talk to me.:rolleyes:

[0shark0]

Thanks Army and defect for the support. I took a break from this thread because of the disturbing theories on how two balls traveling the same speed travel differant distances. Got a little too deep to wade through.

Thanks Facts for explaining the miracle to me.

All in all I would say the barrel to paint match, and the person shooting the gun, are the 2 largest variables on accuracy. The velocity of the ball (and angle) determines distance.

Oops, and the gun shinyness (chrome factor).

[cris8762]

oooooooo..ahhhhhhh...mmmmmmmmm....shiny......

[Yatta!]

Your perception of accuracy and distance being the same thing is so freaking retarded.

Accuracy:The condition or quality of being accurate; exactness; precision:correctness in other words, where the paintballs hit a target.


Distance: How far paintball goes

Two different words, factors, etc. totaly not related.... You know what Im not going to explain anything to you. My sig says it all.


Yatta!

[SkillzMasta]

anyone who doesnt agree with me is a moron simple as that ....... u say no other factors HAVING A DIFFERENT GUN IS A DIFFERENT FACTOR .......yes the law of physics would be tru if everything and every little piece in each gun was the same ............ you guys have to finall talk to the inner you and realize you are wrong

[FooTemps]

HAHAHAHA!!!! THIS THREAD IS GREAT!

Ok, here's some more basic to prove that all guns fire the same distance set @ the same fps and angle.
After you set every gun in a vice, set them all @ the same angle, and set them all at the same velocity, they will fire the same distance. THE FORCES BEYOND THE BARREL WILL EFFECT EVERY PAINTBALL IN THE SAME WAY! This means that once the ball leaves the barrel of a cocker, the ball will be effected IN THE SAME WAY as if the ball came out of the barrel of spyder. This is because the air isn't different if you're having a firefight with a guy 10 feet away from you.

And about the internal differences...
That won't change a thing either since all the internals do is get the ball up to 300 fps. So as long as it gets the ball to the correct speed there is no difference. It's just that high end markers are more consistent on a shot to shot basis so that you can get maximum distance for every shot. You can also fire faster with higher quality internals. The internals don't apply to how accurate a gun is or how far a gun shoots. A closed bolt and open bolt gun perform their actions so quickly there is basically no difference. The bolt moves back and forth so quickly the ball will be put in motion exactly the same way.

[0shark0]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what forces exerted from the gun are felt on the paintball as it flies in the air.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by 0shark0
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what forces exerted from the gun are felt on the paintball as it flies in the air.

lol, there aren't any forces from the gun if the ball is flying in the air

[spazdr]

SOMEBODY CLOSE THIS THREAD! It is totally stupid. Bunch of people arguing and no one is changing their mind. 1.Physics books rule. 2. Cocker/Shocker internals rule. WHO FreaKin CarEs! But if a fat person eats the same amount as a skinny person, won't they both be just as full?... I Said sHut your Hole!

[0shark0]

I know that, you know that, some others know that.

Some definately don't know that.

[Goblin]

like i said, i dont care what you say, thats my theory and im stickin to it

[hmm]

This thread sucks, so...uh... end it much?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by spazdr
SOMEBODY CLOSE THIS THREAD! It is totally stupid. Bunch of people arguing and no one is changing their mind. 1.Physics books rule. 2. Cocker/Shocker internals rule. WHO FreaKin CarEs! But if a fat person eats the same amount as a skinny person, won't they both be just as full?... I Said sHut your Hole!

It's better to inform the ignorant

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Goblin
like i said, i dont care what you say, thats my theory and im stickin to it

lol... but your theory is wrong unless you can control black hole and give pigs the natural ability to fly.

[Goblin]

if they all have the same range, then why do most back players use cockers? if they all have the same distance and accuracy then they should be shooting E98s. no need for cockers then!

[WingZER0]

It's not just the marker. Almost all of you are forgetting the most important factor of accuracy there is: The shooter. Yes, the Human Factor.

According to physics a paintball leaving a barrel at some speed say 275 fps will cover the same distance as a shot from the next with a marker shooting at the same speed. That much I know is true, however take into effect the human shooter. If it were a noob, he wouldn't know how his marker would operate under certain conditions in the enviroment. He doesn't know to to properly aim the marker to that it'll lob that paint properly and take out the target. Give the same marker to the hands of an experienced verteren and guarunteed he'll do much better then the noob. He knows how the marker will shoot.

And then we get into preferences and experiences. Take me for example: Give me a fully tricked out Angel, say with Nitro, a freak barrel system, full auto unlocked, HALO B loader with warp feed, marbalizer paint. Guess what?? I probably couldn't hit the broad side of a planet. I'd need at the very least a case of paint to take out maybe one or two people. 500 shots to take out one person. Sad no??

Give me a CCI Pump Phantom that's almost completely stock (which is what I use in speedball) with a back bottle ASA and a 7oz tank with a buttplate that'll fit comfortably on my shoulder, I could probably pick off your big toe from over 50 feet no problem. The reason??

I grew up with rifles mostly. I've never touched even close to a pistol. Therefore I need that stable firing platform that a Phantom can provide with a back bottle ASA. And I'm more used to one loading my shots, so much so that it's become second nature to me. Right now I'm at the point that when given a semi auto I can't deal with the extra firepower that semi has to offer. And I perfer to use stealth tactics rather outgunning the other person. I'm afraid to get shot :rolleyes: thus my preference is to just sneak around the field and pick off any lone straggler I see.

There are also physical limitations. An Automag RT Pro can do 26 bps without shootdown. How many of us can honestly saw that we could pull the trigger that fast without trigger bouncing? I certainly can't. Also with physical strength. Some little kid will probably complain about the recoil of a semi whereas a big wieghtlifter will be asking "What recoil?" And most likely, the big heavyweight can handle a marker much more steadily then a frail skimpy 10 year old who can barely life thier backpack to go to school. With size, if you're 6'11" and weigh about 250 pounds, then ur definately not gonna want some small maker that could fit in the size of your palm. You'd want something that'll fit you.

Attitude will also decide your game. If a person comes in with a super cocky attitude, thinking that he's invincible and can hit ANYTHING, then more then likely our little person is gonna go making more mistakes then usual such as not aiming when he pulls (note the pull. Not squeeze) the trigger. The player may neglect thing such as a foot sticking out of the bunker you're behind. And once you're out, then ego usually starts kicking in and a person will start becoming angry and tempermental. To the point of which he'll do something utterly stupid like just ripping long strings of paint while standing in the middle of the open (if anyone say's they've never been frustrated at least once in thier paintballing career, then I know that someone is not human and must be alien :D ) How useful is distance with all he's doing is shooting at non existant targets?

The marker is an important factor in this yes, but the marker is useless without the human operator. Yes, different markers may seem to shoot farther, some may seem to shoot flatter, but coming right back down to it it's more the human element in the game that'll make the most difference, not the marker. Any 10 year old kid can get a full tricked Angel. Won't matter if he doesn't know how to shoot it though.




Now anyone who's reading this and plays semi auto or electro most often, answer me honestly. How many of you would do well with something like a Dye Carter Buzzard pump (the MOST expensive pump on the market today) out on a speeball field?? How well would you fare against experienced semi auto shooters with trickeed markers???


That's my theory on this. Can anyone prove me wrong?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Goblin
if they all have the same range, then why do most back players use cockers? if they all have the same distance and accuracy then they should be shooting E98s. no need for cockers then!

the cocker is more consistent than the e98 and there is more hype about the cocker. remember, paintball is driven by hype

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by WingZER0


That's my theory on this. Can anyone prove me wrong?

Yes, human factors don't have anything to do with marker performance only marker usage

[WingZER0]

Try telling that to a newb. He'll still think it's the marker.

But yes, human factors have little to do with performence. Cept with cockers, when we get down to timing and such.

[Goblin]

i knoiw its more consistent, slap on nitro and a max-flo or angel air. same consistency. yes, paintball is driven by hype, like i said i think some markers shoot further than others. thats what i tihnk. alot of you tihnk differently. some think the same. until someone can over to me and physically show me im wrong, then some markers shoot further than others ok.

this thread is getting useless anyway. were not even close to the whole purpose of this thread.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Goblin
i knoiw its more consistent, slap on nitro and a max-flo or angel air. same consistency. yes, paintball is driven by hype, like i said i think some markers shoot further than others. thats what i tihnk. alot of you tihnk differently. some think the same. until someone can over to me and physically show me im wrong, then some markers shoot further than others ok.

this thread is getting useless anyway. were not even close to the whole purpose of this thread.

not really since the e98's internals will have me deviance in fps according to design. if i you lived in seattle i would show you but you don't so too bad for you

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by WingZER0
Try telling that to a newb. He'll still think it's the marker.

But yes, human factors have little to do with performence. Cept with cockers, when we get down to timing and such.

good point

[Goblin]

no i dont live in seattle :D
anyway, i dont really care. im thinking of getting a stock pump. anyone got a suggestion? i know phantoms are really good, but anyone have another favorite?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Goblin
no i dont live in seattle :D
anyway, i dont really care. im thinking of getting a stock pump. anyone got a suggestion? i know phantoms are really good, but anyone have another favorite?

lol! pump power!

[Goblin]

yea! :D
i love sniping, but i find (LOL) that my tippy isnt too accurate, even with a 2k2 all-american(which rocks!). so im thinking of a phantom.

[Goblin]

oh yea, do phantoms have their own threading for barrels, or like a cocker threading? or something else

[Goblin]

sorry im kinda getting off topic guys :D

[WingZER0]

Phantoms are nice. Just gotta get used to them.

And Phantoms have they're own type of threading. Don't go trying to jam ur 2k2 AA into it, or else u'll mess it up.

[Goblin]

yea, im not that much of a newb :D thanks

[WingZER0]

Seriously though, why would you want to replace the stock barrel on a Phantom?? Stock Phantom barrels are some of the best out there.

But if you insist, the CCI site has nickel plated barrels for the Phantom

[Goblin]

:love: yea thatd be sweet, a local store can do gold,copper,silver, chrome etc. type plating, plus custom anodizing. :love: lucky me :D is there a phantom forum? this is the wrong thread to be doing this :D

[WingZER0]

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=90

[Goblin]

yea, i found it :D thanks anyway :D

[FactsOfLife]

Carter's are VERY nice pumps. Had a chance to shoot one today. very accurate.

[Kaiser Bob]

Do the Carter's shoot further and flatter than the phantoms???? :rolleyes: They already did a distance/trajectory test at pbstar.com some of you should check it out.

[FactsOfLife]

heh heh you ao dog you...

<sarcasm>Why yes Kaiser Bob, they absolutely Do shoot farther and flatter.</sarcasm>

[Down the Line]

It's a good thing you put those sarcasm brackets there otherwise certain people (not gonna mention names *cough* Xer0 *cough* ZULU) would take you seriously.

[decentx]

i saw some shinny cocker bashing going on..:|

actually im selling my impy and joining cockerboy, i think. yes impy shoots faster(blade vs stock cock trig anyway) but i found in real game usage that when you get to pumping 10bps your accuracy goes to sh** and it becomes more about luck like an ak47 on cs
(i know im prepared for the flaming). anyway the impulse is a little to heavy for my taste. the only thing that may turn me away from "the evil:pissed: trendy hype-side" is if my impy becomes lighter when i get my tank... on that note, do you think there is a "big" performance difference between co2 and hpa WITH the mighty low pressure impulse? better consistency?.. lighter?cleaner?....
..shoots farther?, and more accurate?
........?

[Down the Line]

If someone would give up there imp to get a modified pump gun then they are far from saving.

[Imptastic]

When the proshop was doing some work on my impulse, I was playing with a fully tricked out cocker. No offense to cockerboy, but his gun is all hype. I was shooting faster and more accurate with my stock impulse. Also, the cocker was heavier and really poorly balanced. They are erally back heavy. I personally think that you'll be dissapointed by cockers decentx, I know I was. Also I hate closed bolt. The trigger pull is facked up.

[LiLKuBBs]

Actually I've seen many cockers that were balanced perfectly. And Impulses aren't the lighest thing ever either so don't complain about cocker weight. I think cockers are the best guns on the field when they're working right. And I'm getting an impulse so I'm not cocker biased or anyhting.

[Goblin]

i love shockers, ultimate sniper electro. personal favorite anyway :D sooo quiet and accurate :eek:

[LiLKuBBs]

I was thinking shocker but I don't like how the vert reg looks and feels... also it's a big gun.. too big for me... and they are worse gas hogs than the impulse. But if I had the money I get a shocker and put another 300 into if ... there not bad guns..

[Goblin]

yea, it is big and a gas hog, but the newer ones are a little better. i like the look of them better too.
oh yea, i checked out the range thing at pbstar.com. i guess there is no difference. he didnt test a cocker though
guess i was wrong :D