How hard does the bolt hit the ball???

[dynorock1]

i was wondering, in an imp how much does the bolt of an imp actually hit the paintball when firing. Im close to positive that its mostly air pushing the ball out the barrel, but i assume that the bolt hitting the ball has something to do with it.

Can someone explain this please, the animation is slightly deceiving i think.

[Conman18]

i thought the bolt was in a forward position when it fires?

[StealthElephant]

i am guessing...but id say whatever your solenoid is running at...that's your bolt pressure.... if your LPR is 100psi...then it's 100psi.....

[dynorock1]

no no no, if the bolt were in a foreward position when it fired then the imps would be closed bolt guns(like cockers and shockers) i know the ball drops and is sitting right behind the ball detents. The bolt is sitting right behind that. I know the bolt actually touches the ball but i dont think it has much to do with the actual shooting of the ball. So does anyone know how much of the ball going out the barrel is caused by the bolt actually hitting the ball????

[pbprophet]

hmmmm....i dont have too much experience with impulses yet...but if the bolt is driven forward by a spring (like blow backs) then just degas the gun and let the spring push the bolt forward and hit a blss...that will show how much of the ball travel is caused by bolt and how much is caused by air coming through the bolt....also...as far as location of bolt when firing....even though it is an open position gun...the bolt is forward or most of the way forward when the air is forced through the bolt....so the bolt DOES hit and force the ball forward....then hits the ball with air....if it hit the ball with air before it pushed it forward too much air would escape out the feed tube....

now i may be wrong in all of this...like i said...i dont have a lot of experience with imps yet....dont flame me too bad if i am wrong....but i think this is how it works for most guns

mike

[pbprophet]

uhhh....wow....my spelling is awful...blss = ball.....dont ask how...it just does.....

sheesh

[The Legend]

Originally posted by dynorock1
no no no, if the bolt were in a foreward position when it fired then the imps would be closed bolt guns(like cockers and shockers) i know the ball drops and is sitting right behind the ball detents. The bolt is sitting right behind that. I know the bolt actually touches the ball but i dont think it has much to do with the actual shooting of the ball. So does anyone know how much of the ball going out the barrel is caused by the bolt actually hitting the ball????

All guns with a bolt fire from a forward position. Some just dont rest in the forward position.

Anyway, a stock imp bolt hits the ball pretty hard, however there is no good way of measuring it....

[dynorock1]

Lets say we could let just the bolt hit the ball with no air, how far do you think the ball would get?

[dynorock1]

whats the chance that i could cover the holes on the end of my bolt and try to shoot a ball???

[snsfalcon]

Why would you want to do that. You need to have air to propel the balls. Here is what you do. Next time you go play leave your marker at home. Then just throw the balls at the other team. I think you will have better luck that way. Rather than covering up the end of your bolt.

[pbprophet]

uhhh....why....what is the point of all this again....the purpose of the bolt is to lock the ball in the chamber....channel a burst of air to the back of the ball (sending the ball out the barrel) cock back and allow the next ball to fall....yes the bolt moves the ball forward somewhat...but it really does not help propell the ball out the barrel....

mike

[The Legend]

Originally posted by dynorock1
whats the chance that i could cover the holes on the end of my bolt and try to shoot a ball???

Flip your bolt upside down. Very little air will get through.

However I think enough air will that it will at least push the ball out of the barrel.

[dynorock1]

the reason for this is to help my dad and grandpa understand exactly how my imp works. See i got into a long conversation with my grandpa about ballistics. (he's been shooting guns and reloading his own amunition for 50 some odd years. He knows his ****) Anyway, this wasnt a face to face conversation it was over email and the phone. to help him understand i sent him the animation from the faq. This animation is slightly deceiving apparantly. My grandpa also talked to my dad who thought that it was the bolt hitting th ball that caused the ball to go forward.

I know its kinda pointless but my grandpa likes to have as muhc knowledge on every subject as he can possibly aquire.

Anyway would the impact of the bolt hitting the ball in an impulse be about the same as taht of a spyder. Becuase i have an e-99 as well so i could degass it and have it shoot a ball like pbprophet said.

Thanks

[Weasel00]

I don't think an Impulse hits the ball as hard as a spyder does.

A way to do this would be to get a LPR Tapeworm. Connect an outside air source to this. Not to the gun, but to the tapeworm itself. Set the outside air source to your operating pressure. (if you are using a LPR then put the LPR on an asa or screw it into the tank). Fire the Impulse (it will make the bolt go forward without firing). That is how much pressure the bolt has on the ball.

This is something that doesn't really matter. (to me anyway). It is a lot of work for nothing.

Jared

[The Legend]

I think a spyder hits it about the same as a stock Imp. You gotta think on the Imp there's a good 180-200psi behind the bolt when it fires.

[Slow_Target]

I would think that it is not as much the pressure but the speed that the bolt is moving. In order for a marker to be able to cycle at rates of 18-20bps, the bolt speed must be high. The ball falls into the breach very close to the bolt. This means that the bolt only has a short "running start" before it contacts the ball.
An IMP uses air pressure to move the hammer. The pressure must build up in the hammer as it goes through the ports from the solenoid. This would mean that the bolt speed is lower at the beginning when it contacts the ball than when it fires.
On the other hand! Spyders use a compressed spring to move the bolt and hammer. A compressed spring would exert the most force when it is first released. This is when it is coming in contact with the ball.
Please feel free to correct me.

[viperisi5]

Guys, Although most of the internals and design could be compared to such a gun as a spyder, please dont for this purpose. An impulse is very different than a spyder in the fact that the method to move the bolt forward and backward is different. The spyder uses the spring, and a sear to catch the hammer when it is cocked. The impulse uses gas to move the bolt forward and back but the assembly just rests in the back position for the most part. There is NO sear to catch and stop the assembly it is held in place by gas pressure (I am pretty sure its a vaccum?) Now as for how hard the bolt hits the ball? Its a low pressure marker, this is a good thing, so if the bolt is moved at low pressures this means it doesnt exert much force at all. I do believe spyders operate at about 400 psi????? An impulse runs at about 280. (the spyder however doesnt use gas to move te bolt forward it uses spring) And I am almost a 100% that the ball would not get out of the barrel with just the bolt hitting the ball (also the tip of the bolt is cupped, I am pretty sure in an impulse that the bolt doesnt even touch the ball?!?!). The gas is for sure what propels the balls in all markers though. If the ball did get out of the barrel with just the bolt hitting it it would not go more than a foot. Hopes this helps guys.

[The Legend]

Originally posted by viperisi5
Its a low pressure marker, this is a good thing, so if the bolt is moved at low pressures this means it doesnt exert much force at all.
The bolt is not moved at a low pressure. 90% of all other elecctropnuematic guns have an LPR stock. Angels hit the ball with 90 psi, same for the bushy, the tribal, matrices are at about 50 psi, timmys 85psi, vikings 65 psi, etc etc etc. Imps hit the ball at 180psi stock. Thats a HUGE amount of pressure compared to those other guns. So yes, while the gun is "low pressure" it has a very strong bolt pressure.

I do believe spyders operate at about 400 psi????? An impulse runs at about 180.
Yes, however that 400 psi is valve pressure, bolt pressure is whatever the spring tension is set to.

And I am almost a 100% that the ball would not get out of the barrel with just the bolt hitting the ball (also the tip of the bolt is cupped, I am pretty sure in an impulse that the bolt doesnt even touch the ball?!?!).
Uh, if the bolt doesnt touch the ball then how does it get into the barrel? If you gave the bolt time I'm sure it could push a ball out of the barrel by itself, but in a normal shooting sequence the air is released right when the ball is pushed into the barrel. If you could close off the valve from the air (such as what what Weasel said), if you had a good to lose paint match the ball would roll out the barrel).

The gas is for sure what propels the balls in all markers though. If the ball did get out of the barrel with just the bolt hitting it it would not go more than a foot. Hopes this helps guys.
If it was JUST the bolt, yes. Like I said, in a firing sequence it isnt just the bolt.

[viperisi5]

I stand corrected on some points, others seem to be a mis understanding. Listen to legend on this one.

[MOOSEontheLoose]

Jesus man...this is a spyder and soon to be spyder owner's conversation, not a nice electro forum debate. Jesus guys.....

Go to the spyder boards and look at posts when there like, can i play paintball with my brand new spyder without buying co2 and just pulling the bolt back after every shot.

You'll get the same answer. NO!. How far will the ball go? NOWHERE!

also, i dunno about impy's (i dont own one, will on wednesday though :) ), but with all noided guns I've seen if you havent aired the gun up it isnt gonna go forward at all. This aint a blow back, the bolt rests in the backward position, the noid pushes it to make a seal, and air travels through the bolt and propels the paintball down your barrel right into the goggles of our spyder toting friends from the kingman section.

lol

[viperisi5]

dude, this is the impulse forum, the guy asked about an impulse, and mentioned that he owned a spyder. This is a impulse question and not a spyder question. So jesuus guys straight back at ya. Sleep well, and have a nice life.

[MOOSEontheLoose]

Congradulations for COMPLETELY MISSING THE BOAT

I meant, thats the kind of question a spyder owner would ask about their spyder in the spyder forum.

If you own a nice electro pnuematic gun, you should have the know-how as to the general workins of the inside. NO BOLT ACTUALLY PROPELS A PAINTBALL.

I was saying it is understandable for a spyder totin newbie to ask this question (and they do, trust me), but an impulse owner should know that all a bolt does is load the ball, seal the chamber, and direct air.

[The Legend]

Originally posted by MOOSEontheLoose
Congradulations for COMPLETELY MISSING THE BOAT

I meant, thats the kind of question a spyder owner would ask about their spyder in the spyder forum.

If you own a nice electro pnuematic gun, you should have the know-how as to the general workins of the inside. NO BOLT ACTUALLY PROPELS A PAINTBALL.

I was saying it is understandable for a spyder totin newbie to ask this question (and they do, trust me), but an impulse owner should know that all a bolt does is load the ball, seal the chamber, and direct air.

Just because someone owns a certain gun they have to have a certain level of "paintball knowledge?"

Hes trying to learn more, instead of making a bunch of rude comments why dont you help him out?

[MOOSEontheLoose]

He was helped out, repeatedly. I dunno why there are so many replies here. People tell him what the bolt does, he asks how far it will go without air.

I hate this forum :(

[viperisi5]

your scentence structures are a mess on that first post, they are misleading. Maybe if you could type I wouldnt "miss the boat" (btw whered you get "miss the boat" from?) I am fully aware that just a bolt wont propel a ball, and I mentioned this in a previous post. Also if you hate this forum, why are you here? I hate the way paint taste's so I dont eat it. Dont do things you hate, it makes no sense. People are just helping people, leave it at that. Dont flame people. Sorry if I have but this is just stupid.

[dynorock1]

hey mooseontheloose, you are greatly mistaken. First of all i am not some spyder totin newbie. I know quite a bit about my gun. For instance, i know that my bolt does actually hit the ball and begin to propel it slightly before the air comes through the bolt and sends the ball the rest of the way...Which is why i asked "HOW hard does the bolt hit the ball" not "DOES the bolt hit the ball." If you think the bolt does not touch the ball when shooting, then you are mistaken and i suggest you brush up on your imp knowledge.

Anyway thanks for the help everyone else who actually know what their talkin about.