Closed Bolt vs. Open Bolt?

[Predator2]

First thing is first, i would like to know the difference of the Closed Bolt and the Open Bolt and i would also like to know which is more accurate and works better.

[SmartBall]

The bottem line is that...
A closed bolt is ALWAYS better than an open bolt if you need accuracy, otherwise it might be a bit slower in speed (say maybe 2 to 3 balls/second).

[Crisis]

tests have proven Closed bolt vs Open bolt = NO DIFFERENCE in accuracy.. it's all in your head..

now as for noise.. there is an obvious difference. closed are quieter

[TLplus84]

yep. Closed bolt guns are quieter, but the thing about accuracy is a myth.Go check out warpig.com and underthe technical section, they'll have an article on it. I think the accuracy came out about the same.

[Crisis]

Yes sir, 100% myth. there have been numerous, people, technical writters, and companies do tests, and found out, if you have 2 near identical closed bolt and open bolt guns.. setup the same, via air pressure, barrel, and air type, paintball etc... accuracy is nil.. damn near 100% the same. almost unmesurable difference.

it's the person behind the trigger, not the gun, get over it.

[Sid]

You wanted to know what closed bolt and open bolt was right?

Closed bolt: This type of action is basically a pump gun with an extra mechanism that uses air to re-cock the 'gun.

Basically the paintball is let into the chamber, and then the bolt moves forward moving the paintball into the correct position to be fired. When the paintball is at a complete stop, the second part of the trigger(releasing the trigger) releases the air to propell the paintball.

Open bolt: The most commonly used system for a semi 'gun.

Basically the paintball is let into the chamber, but then the trigger sear releases the hammer/bolt assembly sending the bolt careening into the paintball pushing it over the ball detent, and just when the bolt goes as far as it can, the air is released and propells the paintball.

[PB ninja]

Basicly in an open bolt system there is Co2 (or nitro) present when the ball is loaded in the breach. In a closed bolt system no Co2 is present because external pneumatics are used to recock.

[Crisis]

Uhmm you need to pick up a field strip book on a blow back gun and a cocker..

If i remember right, a cocker and a blow back both have a chamber where air is stored for use when the trigger is pulled... (i could be wrong on the cocker, i'm not a cocker guru..) but on a blowback, there is a small area (chamber or not) where gas is always present (usually before the valve stricken by the hammer) lol

or on a low end gun, the valve is infront of the feed line from your air tank.. and now to be a HUGE smarta$$. uhh on either gun, of course there is a small (well ok NOT) chamber of air that stores air for use when gun is cocked or not... it's your air supply...

DON'T ASK, i don't know what crawled in me tonight, i just felt like being a smarta$$ for a few minutes... don't crucify me for it..

[PB ninja]

OK OK there might be Co2 present but in a blowback a portion of the pressurized Co2 used to propell the paint is used recock, Cockers use pneumatics.

[elTwitcho]

Closed bolt = bolt is in the forward position and is ready to fire when you pull the trigger
Open bolt = bolt is in the back position and will moe forward chambering a ball and then firing when you pull the trigger. Think of it as this, if you could fire your spyder from an uncocked position, and there was a ball loaded, then every time you fire, it would go through the normal firing process, except stopping with the bolt uncocked and a paintball puhed forward and ready to fire (ie. right before the release of gas, instead of when the gun recocks).

[Edited by elTwitcho on 01-30-2001 at 02:37 AM]

[SmartBall]

First i'm just wonderin why it is a need for everyone to post what kind of gun they have?!?!?
I have a shocker 4X4 with 16 in big daddy barrel both anodized red to blue fade. mini max flow reg with 88 ci max flow CA tank. Among other goodies include a full yes FULL freak system with both fronts and both backs. I use a 12 volt revi with smart link hopper upgrade. it comes with vert feed and extra (not the statnderd job done on it, but a whole seperate deal) body milling.
My point is that whether you have a Spyder or a Shocker, it makes no difference. What makes the difference is whats up there in your head! you could own a Cobra Angel LCD with ALL the goodies, but still be as stupid as a Dead bolt!

Second, I must ask why the newbies post in this section? (not a newbie to this forum, but a newbie to da game) Your questions will be answered more thoroughly in the NEWBIE section (hence the name :) ) No offencs meant to tha newbies who make our sport grow and florish by the way (Btw).

Oh back to the question, Yes a closed bolt system will be more accurate, IN SOME CASES! Compare a Shocker or a Cocker to a Mag or a Spyder, case closed. And the sound thing can be looked at as false too, compare a pump (btw pumps are closed bolt guns too) to a Angel (some pumps that is).
But i'm not trying to prove everything anyone says wrong, so i'll stop here. :)

SmartBall

[TLplus84]

you're wrong Smartball, this is not a newbie question. This is acctually a good question that belongs here, not in the newbie forums. And accuracy really is not affected too much by the fact that it is open or closed bolt, but ratehr the quality of the marker itself.

[Crisis]

I was going to point that out myself TL, but thank you for catching it.. Accuracy deals with the person behind the trigger and paint to barrel match, along with quality of the gun, bolts have very very little to do with accuracy.

[zombie master]

prove it prove it prove it .who cares what is said to be the better bolt system i got a cocker and it shoots very straight .i also got a spyder and it shoots straight when the velocity is way beyond safe limits ,point being there are many things that make a gun more acurate and a closed bolt COULD BE one of them . also i like how the only people that argue the closed bolt are the people with spyders .

[Crisis]

Yer silly.. the people who wrote the article on Closed bolt vs Open bolt, were poeple who shoot high end Cockers, and Electros.. I'm sure your also not going to meantions your guns are or arenot stock.. so i guess that is pointless.

Like i said match , barrel for barrel, PSI for PSI, and paintball brands and size.. one gun is open bolt, one is closed bolt, you find the difference, PRO paintball players couldn't even detect one..

i didn't know you were a scientist.

I'm not stating fiction, I'm stating a fact, numerous controled enviroment tests were done, and NO evidence was found that closed bolts are more accurate.

[zombie master]

that is why i said could be and also why i said who cares. if i where to listen to every opinon or so called fact you would never be able to buy a pball gun because all of them would suck . every gun is a contradiction to the next. if it works for you it is a great gun ya no. im not saying that there is no proof but so called proof changes day to day the world use to be flat . and smoking use to be perscribed by doctors for stress .things change . studys are never perfect . bye the way my gun is stock for those who care

[Phaelon Veritas]

yeah however the only gun I have ever seen this tested on was a brass eagle stingray II and I am sorry but that study won't cut it for me in my opinion you need to start with a base model that is stable to conduct (scientific) studies in order to get accurate results... but just the same
regardless this dumb fukkin debate will go on forever because someone decided that it was better to argue that their guns method of function exceeds anyone else p3nis envy yada yada yada....

[PsycHo AbE]

I'm with crisis on this one. The operation of the bolt plays no part in accuracy only on how the paintball marker operates. Outside factors contribute to accuracy such as consistancy in gas, paint to barrel match, as well as velocity and barrel.

[SmartBall]

Don't wanna pi$$ you off so i'll just not mention to you that a stock spyder doesn't shoot better than a stock shocker (yes, yes Barrel for Barrel, PSI for PSI). i know you all do research on the web at warpig and what such, but have you ever shot the two on the same day, both with Co2 over the Chrony? I have and i did notice a difference. The shocker shot much better and it was stock except for the 20oz. tank of Co2 on the back. The spyder was a stock shutter with a 20oz. Co2 on the back too! Shutter was a open bolt blow-back system. and the Shocker was a closed bolt system. The difference was noticable too! Now a pro would easily of noticed this and a newbie would of too!

So what i'm trying to say here is that and open bolt blow-back gun is NOT always as accurate as a Closed bolt gun! So becareful what you say! it might bite back. Peace :)

P.S. Don't always depend on a information colum written by the Pros'... Cause everybodys different!

P.P.S. sorry for all the !'s

SmartBall

[gggplaya]

Simple physics. The gun with the most consistant velocity will be the most precise. The one with the best barrel will be accurate. If you drop a ball straight down and shoot a ball straight horizontal, both will hit the ground at the same time. So as for this low pressure flatter trajectory thing it's false also unless someone can prove me otherwise like low pressure gets rid or more air resistance or something, i have yet to see it. The only thing you have to worry about then is if the balls goes to left or right. This means even air distribution around the ball and a good barrel fit. So it doesn't make a differnece if open or closed bolt. As for the flatline this does get more range because of the the backspin which works against air resistance.

[gggplaya]

This is for smartball, the shocker also costs like $300 more and has a better regulator and a smart parts progressive barrel and is low pressure so it feels better to shoot. So it will shoot better anyways. it might also be the recocking action which throws off your next shot too.

[SmartBall]

Shocker that costs $300 dollas you be in the game boy!!
It's funny that mine cost more around $600! Stock!
Right now it's worth more like $1000! with all the mods Baby! No offence meant, you must have bin lookin at the used ones though. :)

Stock vs. Stock that is my point of argument...
Stock Spyder vs. Stock Shocker (or cocker, soverign, etc.)

Which will win?

Heres the Dealio: They're both Bench mounted (as with all gun tests) so kick back, recoil, shock, etc. has no effect onthe accuracy.

Test them both 40yds away from the target. They are both the SAME distance with the SAME air source, and the SAME paint going through them! Lets say that we use 32 degrees team colors ( my favorite :)) in the guns.

The shocker will win, but why? If you compare them to each other STOCK the shocker will always win (accuracy and sound wise).

U may argue with me. But unless you have done (or seen this done) for yourself, then please do not argue... Because u do not know the TRUE outcome!

You may read tests dome by pros, but pro or not pro (me) you will see the difference in accuracy at 40, 30, and even 20 yards.

You can say that one gun is better than another, but, the stock shocker is one of the BEST guns accuracy wise.

I am open to arguements, but do not say that one gun is a an advantage, because according to your arguments, you have said that there is NO difference in accuaracy between the open-bolt system, and the closed-bolt system!

Peace out :)

SmartBall (not a$$)

[Watupi]

Abe said it best.

The open bolt/closed bolt thing is a myth. My matrix (open bolt) has the same range as my cocker with the same air source and barrel. Ive already tested it.

[TLplus84]

good argument Smartball. I'll come back with an opposing argument as soon as i can think of one :)

[Predator2]

Smartball- of course the stock shocker is gonna do better than the Stock Spyder. You think it wouldn't be other wise? and we can't say for sure if the two gun's accuracy is different unless you have a vice(i think its what you call it) to hold the gun in a fixed position. If you just hold the gun and shoot you would always feel a difference b/c a shocker has had more thought put into it than the spyder making it more well balanced and comfortable to shoot.

[SmartBall]

Originally posted by Watupi
Abe said it best.

The open bolt/closed bolt thing is a myth. My matrix (open bolt) has the same range as my cocker with the same air source and barrel. Ive already tested it.

Yes master, whatever you say master...
I didn't compare those two guns though...
Too Bad :(

And for TL+:
Thats all right, we don't hafta argue any more! Lets all be friends, then blow each other away on the field! :) :) :)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! i didn't just say that, did I?!?!?
Oh well!

NO PLEASE EVERYONE, LETS PUT THIS ARTICLE TO BED-E-BOO! I'M SICK OF IT! I KNOW ( AND YOU SHOULD TOO!) NOT 'ALL' GUNS ARE THE SAME ACCURACY WISE, WHILEST THEY'RE STOCK!! THATS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO PROVE. NOT 'ALL' 'STOCK' GUNS ARE THE SAME ACCURACY WISE. AHHHHHHHHH I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE I'M GOING TO JUMP OUTTA MY WINDOW! darn too bad i'm only on the first floor, oh well theres always tommorrow!

OnCe AgAiN HeReS My PoInT oF aRgUeMeNt:
STOCK-VERSUS-STOCK

I DIDN'T SAY USE THE SAME BARREL, OR THE SAME REVVIE, OR THE SAME TOILET PAPER, JUST THE SAME AIR SOURCE AND PAINT.

I hope i made it easier for you to process in your super computer of a head, wATUPI!

Now lets tuck it in and say good night!,

SmartBall

[Predator2]

Good Night Smartball
Have sweet dreams :-)

[SmartBall]

My mane point of arguement was that you are supposed to campare a stock gun to a stock gun! not a moded gun to a moded gun (meaning DON'T CHANGE THE FRIGGEN BARREL!)! Does everyone understand me?

Oh well, i do

SmartBall

[TLplus84]

Bed-E-Boo? uhh...psycho?:eek: haha j/k..yeah let's just put all this junk behind us...and be one happy family till we get to the paintball field..Thjat's when the unnecessary violence can take place >=)

[Crisis]

if someone is sick of a topic, why do they continue to read it ? lol