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-   -   The One and Only, Best of the Best (currently) "Which hopper for you" (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173064)

teufelhunden 09-16-2003 03:05 PM

The One and Only, Best of the Best (currently) "Which hopper for you"
 
Typed by Ice, and posted by teufelhunden. (To keep in mind throughout reading)

Ok, well people have been telling me to update my sticky. I'm getting shown how to make a good sticky *cough teufelhunden cough*. Bourne's nagging me to work with teufelhunden for a owning hopper sticky. So here's my (and teufelhunden) shot at one.
------------------------------

There are many considerations for what kind of hopper to get. First we are going to look at how to consider hoppers based on what gun you have (or may have).

Any mechanical gun, no matter how short the trigger pull is, will not outshoot a gravity feed loader (Rev, Rico, Reloader, or TSA). So, if you don't plan on upgrading to an electro (or getting an electro frame for that matter) within the next year, one of these hoppers is right for you. Deciding which is also up to you, as you need to weigh which features you need, as well as how much you have to spend.
Well, as always, there's an exception to the rule. That exception is any Automag with an RT/X-Valve and the ULT. Speeds up to 15 bps have been reported and proven, so that would be faster than any of the aggy hoppers could feed.

Electronic gripped Spyder/Pirhanas/Tippmanns, R/T Tippmann 98s, and Classic valved, E-Framed Automags fall into the middle. Some of these guns are capped at 13 bps, and if yours is, you don't need an Evo or Halo unless you plan on unlocking the board, making it capable of shooting faster. However, if your board is capped higher, a Halo B or Evo may be a good investment. Deciding which hopper you should buy is once again, a decision you need to make. Do you need the super fast 22 bps of the Halo, or will 17-19 do fine for your gun? Also, do you have the extra $40-50 to buy the Halo?

Fully electronic guns, as well as R/T + E-Framed Automags, E-Mags, X-Mags, and Electronic Autocockers (Raceframe, E-Blade, Worrblade), are probably looking at the forcefed hoppers, like the Evo or Halo. These guns can all physically outshoot the gravity feed loaders, and the same decision making process as above applies. Of note though, is most of these high end guns have some sort of chop protection system, whether it be an Eye/other form of ACE, Level 10/other Anti-Chop bolt, or have a low cocking pressure so the bolt will stop on the ball ('Cocker).

However, there is another step to deciding: The player. No matter how fast your gun is, if you can't shoot more than 12-13 bps (on semi), you don't need more than a gravity fed loader, although a forcefeeder may be a good investment for when you get more trigger practice, and are able to shoot faster. Another consideration is the position; your typical frontman uses a gravity fed loader because he doesn't shoot the long strings of paint that a backman does, so he doesn't need super high bps hoppers. That said, a backman is supposed to shoot lanes, etc, meaning he'll be shooting long strings of paint at high speeds. Also, look at how much money you have to spend to play; a slower hopper means you'll shoot less bps, which probably means less paint in a game. Less paint is less money.

Choosing a hopper is all about your needs, your abilities, and your marker's abilities. Choosing a hopper like a Halo B for a mechanical Spyder is overkill, but using a Rev on an Impulse may or may not be too little.

teufelhunden 09-16-2003 03:06 PM

Some key points on different hoppers. Followed by A little more indepth view of them.

Viewloader

9V revvy

-Pros
-Price, $30 isn't that bad...

-Cons
-6-8 bps. A little faster then gravity feed. But barely fast enough for blowbacks with mechanical trigger frames.

-Conclusion
-Get a 12V, if you even want a revvy...
-Review rating of 7.8

12V

-Pros
-Colors, you can find a color to match whatever color gun you have
-about 10-13 bps. With an X-board a little higher.
-Price isn't to bad, around $50.
-------(non X-board)
-Its an affordable hopper; can be found for $35 on sale.
-Feeds at a rate that is fast enough for most lower to mid level guns.
-All parts are replaceable; Individual parts can be bought direct from www.viewloader.com.
----X-board
-Had more cosistant feeding due to a redesigned electronic board. The pauses were reduced. Battery life was increased over the old style revy.
-Motor speed was increased sightly over the old 12 volt revys. Feed rate is 10-12 BPS.
-A stronger poly body was used instead of the old plastic. This made the shell much more durable.
-Sunlight no longer interfers with electronic eye.
-Has all the other advatages of the older style 12 volt revy.

-Cons
-Cheap plastic...
-----non X-board
-Plastic shells were prone to cracking, breaking, or stripping out (where the screws connect the bodies). Broken feed necks were common.
-Often pauses in feeding due to electronic board design.
-Not fast enough for higher ROF guns.
-Can be a paint blender if over filled. Also, overfilling can cause the screws to strip out.
-Sunlight interfered with electrical eye in the clear and Gem series bodies
-----X-board
-Slight price increase.
-Still not fast enough for higher ROF guns.
-Can be a paint blender if over filled. Also, overfilling can still cause the screws to strip out.

-Conclusion
-If you gonna get a revvy, this is the one to get. Get it was an X-board though.
-Review rating of 8.0
-X-board review

Revolution:
The Revvy was groundbreaking a few years ago. It was the first (mass produced) aggitating hopper. It make it possible to shoot long strings of paint at high speed, giving rise to our super-fast markers of today. The Revvy is a great product, but since Brass Eagle bought out Viewloader, the quality seemed to go down, most notably in the shells. Often times, you'll see people saying their feednecks broke. The Revvy uses an optical sensor to sense if there is no ball in the feedneck, and if it sees that, the paddles spin. The paddles move the balls around, stirring them so that some drop into the feedneck, relying on gravity. It does not spin on every shot, only when it senses a gap. There are a number of upgrades/modifications, such as the Intellifeed, which takes a signal from the marker, telling it a shot was fired, causing it to spin. There's also different impellers (the arms inside of the hopper) that give increased performance. As a side note, Rev's are available in a lot of colors, to match almost any marker. Customer support from Viewloader/Brass Eagle is said to be kind of poor.

Evlution (Eggy)

-Pros
-umm...it looks like an egg...
-Fast feed rate.
-Cons
-Cheap plastic.
-Poor qulity
-Jamming
-...Most everything.

-Conclusion
-Don't waste you money on it...
-Review rating of 5.7

EvLution 2 (Eggy 2)

-Pros
-17 bps/19 bps with Y-Board/22 bps with Z-Board
-Got rid of most of the problems with the originally eggy.
-force feed.

-Cons
-Weird way to open the lid You get used to it though
-Some of the plastic problems still prevail. I'm guessing it's about the same problem w/ revvys.
-As with all force feeds, if the batteries die, or the motor breaks or something, you're not getting any paintballs down the feed tube. You might as well take off the hopper and start hand feeding them...

-Conclusion
-17-22 bps is pretty fast, it's the second fastest hopper on the market right now, and is cheapier then the fastest hopper on the market. So, if you don't have alot of money, and need a high feed rate, this is the one to get.
-Review rating of 9.2

Evolution II:
The Evolution II is an oddly shaped hopper, taking the form of an egg. The lid is also wierd, as it opens down instead of up. This is supposed to make filling it with a pod easier, and it works. The Eggy doesn't work like the Rev does, as it's a force fed loader. This means it does not rely on gravity, but it uses a system to push down on the balls. This allows for a faster feed rate of 17-19 bps, opposed to the 13 bps maximum when using gravity (the gravity can't pull the balls any faster) However, the Egg doesn't keep pressure on the balls constantly, working a bit like the Rev. The Eggy is also an optical loader, sensing when there's a gap. The way the Evolution II sits on the gun is also different from most other hoppers, as its feedneck is up front, with the entire hopper behind it. This changes the weight distribution. Of note is that there are two different sets of electronics for the Evo II, the original and the Y-Board. The Y-board provides a faster feed rate than the original because of when it turns on the motor. It's easy to tell if the Evo has an original or Y-board; the original has a push button, and the Y-board has a flip switch. The feedneck comes thick, meaning the user has to sand it down for a correct fit to the marker, which is done intentionally; it allows for a personalized, matched to the marker, fit. It should be noted that a forcefed loader likt the Evo will be more consistent when tilted than a grav feed loader. Comes in black or clear. As with the Rev, customer support is said to be poor.
--The newest board for the EggyII is the Z-Board. It is an upgrade-only board, and will never come stock. The Z-Board accelerates the Eggy up to 22bps, which is Halo-B speed. An Evo with Z-Board is truly a competitor for the Halo at a much lower price ($60-75 for the hopper, $25-35 for the board.)

teufelhunden 09-16-2003 03:06 PM

Ricochet

Concerning both Ricochets:
The Ricochets are gravity fed loader like the Rev. There are two versions, the AK and 2K, with the 2K being the higher end model. The 2K has an LCD screen on it that has a ball counter [that can be pretty inaccurate at times] and a game timer, while the AK has a window used to see how much paint is still in the hopper. Both Ricos are the same outside of that, however. They work using basically the same type of system as the Rev, using paddles to stir the balls. However, unlike the Revvy, the Rico spins on every shot. It has a small switch that gets tripped each time a ball goes past it, meaning on every shot. This leads to greater consistency than the Revolution. Also, the shells on the Rico are engineered to deflect hopper hits, meaning less outs. That's always a good thing. Another design feature of note is that there are O-rings on the feed neck, meaning a very snug fit in the gun, meaning the hopper won't fall out, spilling all your paint. The Ricos are available in a bunch of colors. Customer support is supposed to be great, as is the quality of the product. People who have broken the shells on their Ricos have been able to call up and get new shells from the manufacturer, free of charge.


AK

-Pros
-All the same stuff as the 2k(below) w/o the lcd display.
-Window to show how much paint is left.
-12 bps
-Supposed ricochet design "ricochets" the ball off the hopper
-New O-ring on the feed neck to make a more snug fit in the feed tube. (Helps for a more universal fit since more and more guns have a vert feed neck. And each neck is a different diamater.)

-Cons
-Not very much...haven't heard anything bad about them.
-Someone said their plastic shell broke, but that rico. sent them a new one for free. (if this is true or not I do not know)

-Conclusion
-12BPS isn't to shabby, and for around $50 it's a way to go. Another option instead of a 12V.
-Review Rating of 9.6

2K

-Pros
-LCD screen tells you how many shoots you've taken, and has a timer.
-around 12 bps isn't to bad
-Supposed ricochet design "ricochets" the ball off the hopper
-New O-ring on the feed neck to make a more snug fit in the feed tube. (Helps for a more universal fit since more and more guns have a vert feed neck. And each neck is a different diamater.

-Cons
-More $ then the AK

-Conclusion
If you want a counter, and a timer on your hopper, and don't care to spend the more money, then this is the hopper for you. Otherwise, the AK would be a better deal...
-Review Rating of 8.7

For either one, try and get the one with the O-ring.


Odyssey

HALO

-Pros
-Around 18 bps

-Cons
-Heavy
-expensive

-Conclusion
-Get the HALO B.
-Review Rating of 7.2

HALO B

-Pros
-22 bps (fastest hopper on the market to-date)
-Not as heavy
-B stands for Belt Drive, which makes it a bit quieter since you don't have gears. If I remember correctly this is also why it is able to achieve a higher bps. (The belt replacing gears, which are both ways for force-feeds)

-Cons
-Cost again
-uses 6 AA batteries.
-Big

-Conclusion
-Can't beat 22 bps. Probably the best loader out there...If you can afford it, GET IT. If not, you have the eggy 2 being second fastest, and the rico/vl hoppers being about the same.
-Review rating of 9.7
Flash Review, WOOT!

Halo B:
Odyssey's Halo B is the fastest loader on the market today. It can feed at speeds of 22 bps, and Odyssey's website claims 50 bps in bursts. The Halo B is a belt driven force feed loader, that loads in another ball after every shot. It's got an optical sensor that sees if a ball passes by, meaning a shot was fired. Of note is that dark colored paint is supposed to give really bad results with the Halo-B. The Halo's 6 AA batteries are in front of the feedneck, moving weight distrobution to the front of the hopper, making the marker a bit more front heavy. The Halo B, like the Evolution II, has a thick feedneck that needs sanding, for the same reason as the Eggy. The chip inside the Halo can be programmed for more or less force, and motor activity duration. Also of note, the Halo can be sent in and have its software upgraded. As was mentioned before, force fed loader like the Halo B will be more consistent when tiled. The Halo shells are very durable, and come in a bunch of colors. Odyssey customer support is very good.

Hale TSA LED / LCD

Halo TSA:

The Halo TSA (Tilt Sound Activated) is Odyssey's take on a gravity fed loader, with a bunch of bells and whistles. It's sound activated, like the Reloader, and spins on each shot. One of it's main features is that it has a tilt sensor, and depending on if you tilt left or right, the motor spins to the right or left, which makes feeding a bit more consistent when the hopper isn't straight up and down. The TSA's can be had in either LCD or LED fashions, with the LCD packing a shot counter and a timer. The LCD can also be programmed to have different motor durations, sensitivity levels,
different auto-off settings, along with motor speed levels (there's 3). The Halo TSA comes in two flavors, aside from the LCD and LED; the Backman and Frontman, which only differ in shot capacity. The Backman holds 220 paintballs, while the Frontman holds 180. The Halo TSA comes in black or clear, and sports the same quality shells as the Halo B. Odyssey customer support is still good.

PBreview rating of 9.4

teufelhunden 09-16-2003 03:07 PM

AGD

Warp Feed

Pros
  • 16 bps (stock, 9V), 24bps (12V wiring harness or 12V mod)
  • Makes your gun more compact
  • Moves the hopper down off the top of the gun. This reduces hopper hits, makes the gun less top heavy, gets rid of elbows on your powerfeed/standard feed guns.
  • Increases feeding speed over most hoppers. Speeds of 20+ balls per second are possible, in any position or orientation desired.
  • More consistant feeding. The warp always forces another ball into the breech. This means less chopping!
  • Allows you to shoot at weird angles. You can shoot the gun tipped sideways, or even upside down if you were so inclinded. Since you are no longer relying on gravity to feed the gun, you can shoot the gun laying down, or around corners at extreme angles.
  • Some people think it looks cool; also offers a large space to put stickers.
  • Extremely low profile. You can come out of bunkers with a tiny profile, there's nothing for them to shoot back at!
  • Allows you to come out of your weak side (probably the left side) of the bunker using your strong hand.

Cons
  • For it to feed consistently at 24bps, you'll need a HALO B or Eggy 2 (and, after the balls in the wheel are gone, then it feeds at the maximum rate that the hopper on top will feed). However, as soon as you take a break from firing (even a quarter or half of a second), the warp wheel will be re-primed, and you'll have the capacity for another 13 ball string at 24bps.
  • Adds and extra pound or so to the gun.
  • Makes the gun somewhat unbalanced. With a full hopper attached, you now have 2+ pounds pulling to one side. However, you get used to this VERY quickly, and it isn't a "CON" anymore.
  • Warp can be a pain to set up. Intially, if the motors are not worn in, the jumpers set right, the sensitivity set right and/or a little oil built up on the warp feed discs (oil is found naturally on paintballs) you will have problems. This is all covered in the directions, but, pessimistically, this COULD take about an hour or two before a new warp is set up exactly how you want it. This usually isn't the case, but for those of us who like every part of their equipment to be well tested and fiddled with, this is something to be taken into cosideration.
  • The warp feed needs good batteries to work well. You'll notice slower feed rates when your batts are dying. However, the warps seem to be very economical on batteries.
  • The warp feed is limited to the hoppers speed after the first 13 shots if those shots are at the maximum rate that the warp can feed. Now, considering that not many people can shoot a string of 13 balls at a consistent rate of 24bps.... this really isn't a problem.
  • Some people hate the look.

Conclusion
Makes your gun a lot more compact, but since you still need a fast hopper, it can be expensive. I have found that using a warp is the way to go, but it's not for everyone.

-Review Rating of 9.1

Empire

Reloader

Pros
  • One of the fastest (if not) the agitated hopper on the market (to date) with 12.56 bps.
  • Sound activated mechanism means it is more like a intellifeed revy, then a optical loader. (Taken from website)
    What's the deal with a Sound Activated Loader?
    An optical sensing loader "prevents" misfeeds while with the reloader they simply don't happen. While an optical loader basically acts as a regular gravity fed loader until it senses a misfeed and then rotates the paddle, the reloader runs on the sound of the markers firing action by placing a ball in as each shot is fired every time
  • Turns itself off after 30 minutes, so if it gets turned on in your bag, it won't drain your battery.
  • Relativity cheap, running around $45-50.

Cons
  • Not much, customer service could be better.
  • Feedneck isn't super strong, and could be built better.

Conclusion
If you want to stay with a agitated hopper, this is definitely a hopper worth looking into, as it is (more then likely) the fastest agitated hopper to date.

-Review rating of 9.1

Reloader:
The Empire Reloader looks nearly exactly the same as the Rev, as it uses nearly identical shells (the only difference is they say Empire instead of Viewloader). The Reloader is also a gravity fed loader, like the Rev and Rico. It has audio sensors (read: a microphone), that detect the sound of a paintball marker firing, causing the hopper to stir the paint inside of it. Like the Ricochet, it spins on every shot, making it more consistent. The plastic that the Reloader shells are made of is of higher quality than the Revvy shells, meaning there's less of a chance of breaking it. Another nice feature is auto-off; after 30 minutes of inactivity, the Reloader will turn itself off. The Reloader is available in black, clear, or smoke. Empire customer support isn't supposed to be great, but not terrible.

Also: There is a Reloader kit that is available as a drop-in kit for the Rev. It comes with all the guts; you just bring the shell. It makes your hopper a Reloader, just in the Rev shell. Costs $35.



Q-Loader

Pros
  • Can keep up with 30+ BPS (Does not FEED 100 BPS, common misconception)
  • Lowers overall profile
  • Very quick and easy to reload
  • Can be mounted anyone on your marker
  • No ball rattle
  • Durable and Reliable
  • Very difficult to chop balls
  • Pressure Fed

Cons
  • Each Q-Pod holds 100 rounds
  • Extra Q-Pods are expensive ($25)
  • Complicated to understand, things can go horribly wrong if you don't know what you're doing
  • Pressure Fed
  • Q-Pod will not work unless each pod is Pre-Wound and Q-Pods cannot be Pre-Wound while rounds are in the Pod
  • Can't fire while reloading

Conclusion
The Q-Loader is, in fact, very fast. It also takes the hopper off the top of the gun, something many people like. However, removing the hopper from the top of the gun changes its balance, something that will take getting used to. Also, since you can't shoot and reload at the same time, this may very well hinder some players, especially backmen. Also, the kit comes with few pods, and buying more is very, very expensive. Buy this if you fire veryyyyy fast, but don't shoot lots of paint in a game and have time to reload where you can stay covered. Try one out before buying.
Review rating of 8.8.




*********************
*******NOTE*******
*********************


With the Halo B, you should NOT use black paint, or any paint with dark or black swirls on it, as the optical sensors that determine when the motor needs to activate get confused by it.

teufelhunden 09-16-2003 03:07 PM

Last (for now) are some Vs. threads.
Empire Reloader vs 12 Volt Revolution

Empire Reloader vs Ricochet AK

Halo TSA vs Ricochet AK

Halo TSA vs 12 volt Revolution

Halo TSA vs Empire Reloader

Ricochet AK vs Ricochet 2K

Ricochet AK vs Evolution II

Evolution II vs Halo B

Evolution II vs Halo B (Another).




Halo B vs Evo II... read this one if you're deciding between the two


Typed by Ice, and posted by teufelhunden as he wants to update it, (and take credit for it :P. but that's OK, as he has more put into this then I do).

Empyreal Rogue contributed most of the Q-Loader section. :tup:

BourneKiller 09-17-2003 09:10 AM

Stickied.

And if anyone has any questions, feel free to post them, but no "Wow, good job!" posts.

:finger:

teufelhunden 01-02-2004 08:00 PM

Updated. Added a small bit about a mech that can be too fast for an aggy (RT/X-Valved 'Mag with ULT) and wrote some stuff about the Z-Board for the EvoII.

BourneKiller 01-02-2004 08:53 PM

:| I noticed that you had a bunch of false information about the warp feed, and some common misconceptions too. :finger:

And I formatted that second-to-last thread.

I'll eventually finish my entire critique of the thread. Sometimes the info is a bit lacking. Example - "HALO-B is fast (18bps), but heavy and expensive, so get it."

:|

teufelhunden 01-02-2004 08:56 PM

That was Ice's part. That n00b! :)

I'll work on it some more later.

chibissj 01-02-2004 09:13 PM

yes I particularly don't like having sIc's post in here but that's just my 2 cents. It gives bias where bias isn't needed.

BourneKiller 01-02-2004 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chibissj
yes I particularly don't like having sIc's post in here but that's just my 2 cents. It gives bias where bias isn't needed.
I wasn't talking about sIc's post.

I was talking about Teuf's post (which Ice wrote, I guess).

But I'll be going over the entire thread, sooner or later.

:eyes: It really has been a while since this thing got posted. :laugh:

teufelhunden 01-04-2004 09:29 AM

I removed sIc's post and did some touch up work with the Warp thing. If I find the time today I'll add a short blurb to the Warp like everything else has.

Ebonclaw 01-14-2004 04:27 PM

Also note that forcefed loaders like the HALO-B and EggII negate blowback entirely. At 15 BPS on a Spyder, that's very important.
I was able to achieve 13 BPS on my Shutter with a 12V with WaS TurboRev model.
15 Required purchase of a HALO-B.

teufelhunden 01-14-2004 04:41 PM

Or Evo :)

Ronkend 01-27-2004 08:54 AM

IS a evo 2 overkill for my RT Tippmann???

BourneKiller 01-27-2004 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronkend
IS a evo 2 overkill for my RT Tippmann???
Nope

alexrusek 01-31-2004 04:45 PM

You need to add Q-Loader and change all the stuff about the Halo B being the fastest since the q-loader is now officially released.

I mean, The q-laoder emptied its 100 round pod in 1 second. Halo will never be able to touch that.

teufelhunden 02-01-2004 06:53 PM

The Q-Loader does not do 100bps. I've seen one in action.

If anything, the Halo and the Evo are the speed kings. They can do their speed consistently, unlike the Q.

BourneKiller 02-01-2004 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teufelhunden
They can do their speed consistently, unlike the Q.
The inconsistency, if anything, is negligble (sp).

There is more spring pressure at the beginning, but more weight (more balls), and as the balls are fed, the tension decreases.

Depending on the spring strength, I would think that it would feed faster as it unloads. :|

teufelhunden 02-03-2004 06:20 PM

Maybe that's what they were having problems with at the NPPL in August when I saw one- it would eject paint noticably more slowly at the end of the pod than the beginning. All they would tell us is that there was a problem but not what it was.

Whatever, still not buying one.


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