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-   -   Efficiency vs Consistency, and Setting Your Regs for Both (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328068)

jwong 08-06-2005 07:50 PM

Efficiency vs Consistency, and Setting Your Regs for Both
 
I've noticed something about my B2K4 and I'm wondering if there are any suggestions whereby I can acheive both efficiency and consistency.

With my current setup, it runs most Consistent at 220psi and adjusting the LPR to get ~275fps. However, it's not very efficient.

When I set the HPR to 250-260psi (for better efficiency) and then try to adjust the LPR to get 275fps, my consistency goes out the window..... it's jumping from 240-280fps.

I've lubed up everything and I've lightly polished the ram housing and ram shaft and hammer.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

ShootPaint 08-06-2005 08:49 PM

You arent adjusting the regs properly.

The Bushy's LPR should only be used to make extremely fine adjustments to the FPS. Roughly 5fps changes. All other adjustment should come from the HPR.

The best settings I have found for the B2K4's are around 250-275psi with stock valve and 225-250psi with aftermarket valve.

Set your HPR to the above level depending on what type of valve you have.

Now that we have the HPR covered lets move onto the LPR. There are a couple of different versions of adjustment for the LPR. There is the minimum operating pressure adjustment and the maximum operating pressure adjustment proceedure. I do a little of both since there are advantages to each one.

Minimum LPR pressure adjustment proceedure
Start with your LPR adjustment knob turned out far enough the marker will not cock when gassed up.
With the marker gassed up turn the LPR knob clockwise until your bolt if fully cocked. Once the bolt is fully cocked go a half turn more.

This proceedure will set the LPR to run at its minimum pressure. It allows the marker to be easier on paint but usually leaves the consistantcy of the marker a little wider than other methods. You should see + or - 5-7FPS from shot to shot with this adjustment proceedure.

Maximum Pressure adjustment proceedure
Start with your LPR adjustment knob turned out far enough the marker will not cock when gassed up.
With the marker gassed up turn the LPR knob clockwise until you hear the marker vent gas from the gripframe. Once you hear the venting gas slowly turn the LPR knob counter clockwise, while cycling the marker, until the gas no longer vents.

This proceedure will set the LPR to run at its maximum pressure. It is harder on paint but allows the ram assembly to cycle slightly quicker, it is usually a little more consistant. You will see 3-5fps change from shot to shot with this proceedure.

Once you have your LPR adjusted you can use your HPR to dial in your FPS. This is the basics of how to adjust your regs.

How I adjust my regs

I set my HPR as described above, depending on the valve.
I next adjust my LPR until the marker cycles. Once the marker cycles I goto a chrono and adjust the HPR to reach my desired FPS.
As the HPR is increased I usually have to raise the LPR just slightly to allow for the valve to open properly. Once I get the marker cycling at the desired FPS I adjust the LPR until I see my FPS drop. When my FPS drops I back out the LPR until I see the FPS increase. When the FPS increases I back the HPR off about 5-10 psi to get back to my originally desired FPS.

This proceedure is what I use on my personal markers and I have been able to keep them at + or - 1-2 fps and even had one marker that ran + or - .5fps by using this proceedure.

One thing I recommend that I am sure some people will disagree with me on is the lubing of your regs. I dont recommend your regs be lubed after every day of play. I personally dont lube my regs on my markers after every day of play. I usually lube them about every 7-10 cases of paint or when I see consistancy issues, which is usually every 7-10 cases of paint. I am a firm believer in the theroy, "If its not broke dont fix it!!!" I honestly believe a lot of the issues people have with their markers is self induced do to to much cleaning and lubing, but to each there own.

I hope this helps.

jwong 08-07-2005 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ShootPaint
You arent adjusting the regs properly.

......
How I adjust my regs

I set my HPR as described above, depending on the valve.
I next adjust my LPR until the marker cycles. Once the
................

One thing I recommend that I am sure some people will disagree with me on is the lubing of your regs. I dont recommend your regs be lubed after every day of play. I
...............
I hope this helps.

Shootpaint,

You've been extremely helpful. Thank you!!!!

I'll have to try setting it by your method. I think by trial and error, I've been trying to set the marker by the first 2 methods that you've mentioned. I'll have to try your method.

As for lubing my aftermarket regs, again, by trial and error, I've noticed that after each time I lube my HPR and even stock LPR, there's a "break in period" where the regs aren't as consistent.

Again, thanks for your time and thoughts!

Aside for other readers: I hope you folks can appreciate Shootpaint's (and some others) free tech lessons on this forum. :D

Cheers

lotus_esprit5 08-07-2005 07:08 AM

damn shootpaint what a stud! I'm printing that method out. I've used sort of combinations of those things and been able to squeeze some pretty good consistency out of my gun but I've never quite been able to get the holy grail of +/-1 that you've claimed on your guns, or at least not consistently.

Jazkal 08-07-2005 01:21 PM

board settings play into this as well (dwell mainly), but I can't find any "good" info like shootpaint's reg setting guide that discusses this aspect of it.

ShootPaint 08-10-2005 05:33 PM

You can adjust teh dwell on your board almost exactly like adjusting a reg. You can start out with the dwell at its lowest setting and increase the dwell until you see the FPS stabalize or drop down. Once this occurs simply drop the dwell down to the last setting you had prior to the FPS dropping.

This will get you the most consistantcy out of the marker but it may not make it the most efficent.

As a general rule of thumb a the B2K runs quite well at 10-12ms.

My B2K3 which I refer to quite often was the most consistant marker I ever owned. It was + or - .5FPS day in and out. It was a highly mod'd marker. The mod list was quite extensive and I dont see much reason in getting into all the mods it had.

I can tell you that once I added a Chaos board, CP Grip reg and Custom Made hosed Rock my marker became UBER consistant. Prior to these upgrades I was achieving 3-4FPs with the stock regs.

My dwell setting on the Chaos board was 10ms. I later switched this to 12ms when I started testing the MAC Ram.

There are additional methods of adjusting the regs that I can describe. It is the sweet spotting method. This is the basic method described in my method of adjustment for the regs on my marker. You will notice I talk about adjusting the LPR until the FPS decrease and then backing it out. This is how you sweet spot a reg. If you want you can do the same thing with the HPR and this should give you the best consistantcy for your marker. My version is simply a shortened version of sweet spotting the regs due to the fact of the consistancy I was achieving with the CP reg on my marker.

tselanne 08-15-2006 08:33 AM

""""Once I get the marker cycling at the desired FPS I adjust the LPR until I see my FPS drop. When my FPS drops I back out the LPR until I see the FPS increase. When the FPS increases I back the HPR off about 5-10 psi to get back to my originally desired FPS.""""

this doesnt make sense to me - you back out the lpr until you see the fps increase? how does that work? thx

lotus_esprit5 08-15-2006 06:38 PM

the regs are supposed to be balanced (in other words, you shouldnt have the inline at 350 psi and LPR at 70, or the LPR at 110psi and inline at 200). so if the regs are far enough out of whack relative to each other, your velocity will drop. so, say you have an aftermarket valve, so your inline is at 225psi, and the LPR is at 80. they are pretty much in proportion to each other. but if you continue to turn the LPR up higher, eventually the pressures wont be in proportion, and therefore the regs will no longer be balanced, so your velocity will drop as you turn up the LPR rather than increase. does that make sense?

tselanne 08-22-2006 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotus_esprit5 (Post 3671880)
the regs are supposed to be balanced (in other words, you shouldnt have the inline at 350 psi and LPR at 70, or the LPR at 110psi and inline at 200). so if the regs are far enough out of whack relative to each other, your velocity will drop. so, say you have an aftermarket valve, so your inline is at 225psi, and the LPR is at 80. they are pretty much in proportion to each other. but if you continue to turn the LPR up higher, eventually the pressures wont be in proportion, and therefore the regs will no longer be balanced, so your velocity will drop as you turn up the LPR rather than increase. does that make sense?

makes sense to have them in proportion, yes... but still a bit confusing. ive played w/my b2k (aftermarket) regs a bunch, and i think i have them corrected now. i just want to make sure i did it correctly... (btw, my b2k has quite a few 'ups')

i currently have them @ lp70, hp150, fps285, dwell6ms. here's what i did: i used a ram gauge and set my lpr at 40 (which is just cocking the ram back plus a 1/4 turn), then 50, then 60. each time i started w/hp at 150, and adjusted it until i got good fps.

it was tough to get it firing up to speed w/the dwell so low, but i didnt want to make it higher for fear of poor effeciency. i really wasnt able to get it firing up to speed until around 50-60lp.

interestingly, i would get identical fps at WAY different pressures; once at lp~60, 120hp and 190hp would produce the same fps (just not quite fast enough). 150hp seemed 'in the middle' and produced the best speed. i then bumped up the lp another 5/10 psi and she runs around +/- 7 or so at 285fps (although i have new regs).

did i do this correctly?!? it's beginning to make sense, but like i said, im still a bit confused as this is my first time 'tuning' a gun.... thx for all the help!!

doglimon 04-30-2009 11:18 AM

There are additional methods of adjusting the regs that I can describe. It is the sweet spotting method. This is the basic method described in my method of adjustment for the regs on my marker. You will notice I talk about adjusting the LPR until the FPS decrease and then backing it out. This is how you sweet spot a reg. If you want you can do the same thing with the HPR and this should give you the best consistantcy for your marker. My version is simply a shortened version of sweet spotting the regs due to the fact of the consistancy I was achieving with the CP reg on my marker.


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