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-   -   The Ultimate Wrath and Wrath LTD comparision (56k Mega Death) (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422111)

IronCorps 12-07-2007 04:07 PM

The Ultimate Wrath and Wrath LTD comparision (56k Mega Death)
 
Greetings diablo chaps. I figured i'd make use of my somewhat not-crappy digital camera, and my 2 wraths. With enough questions being asked in the chat, i figured i might as well get a detailed thread up.

I have rostered 75 pictures to show the differences and similarities between the two markers. I will post commentary and explanation above each picture. Enjoy the 16875 characters of utter chaos!

First, the two assembled, barrel-less markers side by side. My LTD is currently stripped of all anodizing (is mostly bare aluminum).


To begin the detailed comparison, let us start with the ram housing. The Generation 1 pictured (and all other standard wraths) use a extruding ram housing (or ram cap). The Wrath LTD has most of it's ram housing secured inside the ram sleeve. The two ram caps are seen here assembled.




Next we will compare the two ASA's (that's Air Source Adaptor). These ASA's are intended to accept high pressure regulators. The LTD features a 10* ASA (mine is a little scuffed up from various projects).

The standard wrath uses a strait ASA with a hole cut into the side to allow passage of the low pressure hose, seen below.




Next we'll take a look at the stock feednecks. The standard wrath's use a bob-long style clamping feedneck, where the hopper is inserted, then a exterior clamp wheel is spun to grab hold of the hopper neck.


The LTD uses a vice grip neck of lower profile and size. The hopper neck is inserted, and the user tightens the feedneck's ring to clamp the hopper in place.


Now we'll have a look at the stock bolts. The standard wrath's (until the very late models, after the LTD was produced) come with an aluminum bolt. This bolt requires lubrication to cycle smoothly. The Wrath LTD comes stock with a teflon bolt, that requires no lubrication, and is significantly lighter than both the stock bolt, and many other aftermarket bolts.


Into disassembly. Taking a look at the top of the trigger frames, several minute differences can be noticed. Using the standard wrath's frame as the default, the LTD's frame has two spots that have been drilled out to accommodate the low pressure barbs that connect to the LP hoses.


The standard wrath, unlike the LTD, has 2 ports for set screws intended to hold the solenoid in place, despite the fact only 1 is needed.


Focusing on the standard Wrath for a moment, we'll take a look at pulling the guts out. As is pictured in the bolt comparison picture, the bolts can be quickly and effortlessly removed by pulling up the bolt pin, and sliding the bolt out the back of the marker. The standard Wrath's lower tube internals can be removed by first disconnecting the LP hose from the ram cap's hose fitting. Then by spinning off the ram cap. All the parts will slide out the back.


The ram itself will need to be pulled out of the ram cap in order to be cleaned or replaced.


The ram sleeve will be the last part to come out most of the time. The standard Wrath's sleeve is shorter than the LTD's (as will be pictured in detail later).


One of the major differences in the lower tube design between the two models is the fact the standard wrath's ram cap is threaded into the body. The internal tap can be seen here.


The LPR on both markers is secured by a single screw near the front of the marker. After it is removed, the LPR, valve spring, and valve pin will all be able to be pulled out the front of the marker. The valve itself is held in place just as they are in spyders, with a screw coming up from the bottom of the marker. Unscrew this, and use a piece of macroline to push the valve out the front of the marker. When all the standard wrath's parts are laid out as they are set up inside the marker, it appears as such.


The Wrath LTD makes more efficient use of the rear trigger frame screw. Not only does this screw keep the frame attached to the marker, it also holds the ram cap in place. Remove this screw, and just like with the original wraths, the parts slide out the back.


Also, just as with the original wrath, the LPR, valve spring, valve pin, and valve are removed the same way. The LPR on the LTD, however, is of a slightly different design externally, since it does not use a LPR adaptor. It has a shallow channel milled around certain parts to allow air passage.


Detailed here, is the underside of the LTD. The forwardmost screw is the LPR screw. The tiny hole off to the side is the plugged end of the internal air channel. The LTD has two internal air channels that provide a methood of getting low pressure air around the gun. Loose ends from milling are filled with tiny set screws, similar to trigger adjustment screws.


When all the internals of the LTD are removed and laid out, it looks like this.

IronCorps 12-07-2007 04:09 PM

Comparing the two LPR's side by side, LTD on top, standard on bottom.


The two stock bolts side by side, LTD on top, standard on bottom.


Comparing the two stock ram sleeves, Standard wrath on top, LTD on bottom.


Comparing the two ram caps, LTD on top, standard on bottom.


The two stock rams side by side, LTD on the left, standard on the right. Notice the raised neck on the standard model. That feature was later done away with with the interest of flexability.


Onto the body comparison. Here i have provided several photo's comparing a the Generation 1 to the LTD. Enjoy.










Here are the two stock ASA's detached, with the stock regs screwed in. The stock regs are basically bob long torpedo's in different shells, and as most wrath users found out, don't need to be replaced. The stock 10* ASA on the LTD has a port drilled for a guage, eliminating the need to put it on the reg, making the LTD a significant upgrade in ergonomic comfort.


The tops of the two ASA's are identical. The both use a fat oring to make the seal around the body. These ASA's are the same style as autococker ASA's.


Putting it all back together now. Here, i am putting my lightweight delrin ram back into my Gen. 1. In this picture, i have placed the ram side by side with the ram cap to show how far inside the cap the ram sits.


Here is the entire ram assembly put back together, ready to be placed back inside the body. Notice the return spring will stick out a little bit from the ram sleeve.


Meanwhile, back at the front of the marker, push the valve back into place, and reinstall the screw. It's not a bad idea to use teflon tape. Next to go in will be the valve pin/valve spring combo. The tip of the valve spring cradles the valve pin, use this to your advantage when poking around inside the gun trying to get the pin to slide into the valve.


Next to go in will be the LPR. The LP barb should line up with the LPR screw.

Screw in the LPR screw, there's only one hold to screw it into, so you can't make a mistake.


The ASA takes a particular kind of screw (a dumb statement, but this one a particularly evasive kind). Pictured from the top:


Make sure you twist the screw into the middle hole, it's the only hole that is threaded. The other two are air passage ports. To begin my demonstration of compatibility, i have installed the LTD's 10* ASA onto my Gen 1.


Furthermore, the LTD's bolt can also be used in the standard Wrath's. Here i will install the LTD's bolt.

IronCorps 12-07-2007 04:10 PM

But this time, i will use an aftermarket bolt pin, this one made of delrin.


Installed in the marker, it looks like this.


Though there are minor details in the milling of the two grip frames, the LTD's can still be used on the standard Wraths. The LTD, however, cannot use standard wrath frames since there are no slots milled to make room for the LP barbs. For convenience sake, i did not bolt down the frame in this picture.


Before you put the frame back on, you're going to have to get the eye's placed just right so that you dont pinch and cut them in half. Take notice here, on the underside of the marker, the divots milled to give the eye wires safe passage.


Then, channel the eyes so that they wont be squished by the frame.


Because i installed the 10* ASA on my standard wrath, i have to divert the LP hose around the guage to the LP fitting on the LPR.




After connecting the LP hose, i went ahead and attached the grip frame back on.


Next, the main regulator.


Next, to further demonstrate compatibility, i installed the LTD's feedneck on my Gen 1, as shown here.


Again, to demonstrate compatibility, i have installed my LTD's yellow eye cover.

But i like the stock black ones better. =]


Back to the LTD, this reassembly isn't much different. Here is the complete ram assembly. The ram cap on the LTD slides into the ram sleeve to a certain extent, which is why the LTD's ram sleeve is a little longer than the standard wrath's. This time around, i am putting a ACP delrin bolt, which is advertised for the 'Wrath' and not specifically for the LTD (compatibility demonstration) into the marker.


Back at the front, the valve goes in first. Ensure the wide hole is facing you when you slide it into the body. Again, macroline is a great tool for pushing the valve into place. Avoid using metal objects such as screwdrivers or allen wrenches because it may scratch the lip of the valve, causing a very-difficult-to-repair leak.


It may be hard to see in this pic, but get the valve hole lined up with the hole drilled in the body.


Then screw in the valve placement screw.


With the valve installed, your ram assembly will now have something to rest against. Slide the whole thing into the back of the marker.


Take notice, that once inside, the assembly is able to spin around. This is useful for tinkering purposes, but the ram need to face up in order to put the bolt in.


Next, slide the bolt in, line up the bolt pin and the hole on the ram, and push the pin down into it. Voila.


Another demonstration of compatibility, the stock standard wrath feedneck can be installed on the LTD. To take off and put on this particular feedneck, I personally recommend you unscrew the exterior piece to allow your allen wrench's an easier reach.

IronCorps 12-07-2007 04:11 PM

Screw it down on both sides. The two little silver screws seen here are what hold the neck in place. After you get it firmly bolted down, screw the outer piece of the feedneck back on.


So this is what you'll have thus far.


Ok, back to the front again, same deal, valve spring/valve pin combo goes in next.


In the LTD, the valve spring sits lower in the body due to the LPR placement.


The LPR screw must have a small oring around it to stop leaks. The LTD's LPR has tapped holes on four sides, just take your pic, and slide it into the body.


Next, to get the frame back on, you need to start with the LP barbs. First, disconnect one of the barbs from the LP hose, and screw that one on independently. The other LP barb leave connected, and spin the whole frame (or body) to screw the barb into the body. After it's seated, take the other LP hose (the one now without a barb) and re-unite it with it's long lost barb. Then, just like with the standard wrath, line up the eyes and bring the frame together with the body.


Everything should look flush and secure.


On a side note, it's not a bad idea or place an order for a lot of LP barbs and various wrath screws. The ones distributed by request by KEE (formerly NPS) are made of aluminum, rather than brass, therefore are less prone to snap.


Which leaves us here. I did not reinstall my eyes or covers because i'm currently working on this gun.


The standard Wrath's ASA can be put on the LTD, as pictured here, leaving you with a ready marker.


This leaves my project with lots of swapped parts.


Leave feedback.

Zofarr 12-07-2007 05:24 PM

Stuck, very well done pictures, and information.

jonezin_nj 12-08-2007 01:29 PM

Very sweet Ironcorp, It must of took a lot of time to get that all done. Explanations of the pictures were very helpful. i say sticky

dressup24 07-09-2009 02:35 AM

After you get it firmly bolted down, screw the outer piece of the feedneck back on.


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