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Old 04-22-2004, 07:54 PM   #1
Coenen
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Regulating Your Tippmann

So you've decided to get a regulator to improve the consistency and efficiency of your ProCarbine, Model 98(C) or A-5. Here's what you need to know so you can get started:
Before I say anything else, all Tippmann markers, when stock, are high pressure. They generally need at least 700psi of input pressure, preferably more, to operate effectively.

IF YOU HAVE NITROGEN, YOU MAY WANT TO SKIP THIS SECTION

Preparing the Marker:
If you intend to use a regulator in conjunction with CO2, you must have one of the following:
  • An anti-siphoned tank
  • A remote
  • An expansion chamber BEFORE the regulator.
In short, all of these modifications are intended to keep liquid CO2 out of the regulator, liquid CO2 and Regulators DO NOT mix. I will cover each briefly. Anti-siphon is basically a bent brass tube installed in the valve of a CO2 tank, the tube bends upwards to the top of the tank when it is screwed in horizontally, it is therefore, incompatible with remote and vertical tank setups. This arrangement allows it to bring only gaseous CO2 into the marker. A remote line, allows the CO2 time to expand into a gaseous state between the tank and reaching the reg. An expansion chamber serves the same purpose as the remote, if it is after the reg though, aside from allowing liquid to enter the reg, it will de-regulate the gas, defeating the purpose of getting a reg in the first place.

There are three ways to attach a regulator to your marker, they are:
  1. Use a vertical adapter(VA) in conjuction with a male reg. This method works with all Tippmann markers. Male regs are, generally, threaded just like CO2 tanks.
  2. Use a female reg. This will work on stock ProCarbines and 98's but A-5 user's will need the grip adapter tht they would need for a drop forward.
  3. Run the reg directly into the valve. This method will work on ProCarbines only, it can be made to work on the Model 98 but, for reasons listed below, isn't a good idea.
Here's a more in depth look at each(in order listed above):
The most common way by far is to use the vertical adapter(VA) with the male reg, it's not rocket science to do, but installing the VA, especially on the Carbine and Model 98, has the potential to be a real pain. Follow the directions carefully and take every precaution not to screw it up. After that you'll need at least one 90* elbow and perhaps a new gas line if you want to be vain and have it look perfect. A-5 users are lucky here, the A-5 already has a built in male threaded VA, however, there is an after-market adapter that allows you to replace the front grip.

The easiest way is to use a female reg, the only one I know off the top of my head is the Palmer's Stabilizer. You will have to buy a set of mounting brackets for it and then it simply replaces the stock ASA. Use a 90* elbow to run the gas line from the regualtor into the valve and it's done. This approach offers a couple of advantages over using the vertical adapter, first, you don't have to buy(and install) a vertical adapter, secondly you don't probably won't need a new hose either. This is, to my mind, the prefered way to setup a reg for the ProCarbine as it eliminates the need to track down a VA(VA's for the Carbine are sometimes hard to find) and install it. It is also very easy to do for the original Model 98 and the Custom 98. The A-5 draws the short straw here though, you need to purchase the grip block that one would need to mount a Drop Forward before the Female can be mounted.

Running the regulator directly into the valve is one of the least common ways to set up a regulator for a Tippmann. In this setup the stock hose is removed, and the reg is screwed straight into the valve. I've heard that the Direct Stabilizer from Palmer's Pursuit Shop will fit the ProCarbine's valve threads. A-5's with the male vert adapter where the hose enters the marker accept male regs. The Model 98 and 98 Custom are the centers of some debate though. Some say that a regulator cannot be run directly into the 98's valve, while others asure us that it is in fact possible. The truth is, it can be done, but it requires some modifications and is generally considered a bad idea. Why is it a bad idea? Glad you wondered. First, you need to find an adapter that will accept the reg on one end and the valve on the other. If/when you find said adapter it is also possible(and very likely) that you'll need to shave some metal from the recievers to fit the reg and adapters. Next you come to the big problem, due to the size of the connection this setup tends to be a bit fragile. If you screw it up either in installation or in play and strip the threads you are looking at a whole new valve and reg. Do lots of research and be very familiar with your marker and what you're doing before attempting this. Palmer's Pursuit Shop, some of the most competent air-smiths in the world, will tell you that it is impossible to setup a direct reg on a 98 or 98C, that should give you an idea of just how hard it is.

With that said we come to the question of which reg to purchase for you Tippmann.
The most common reg you'll see on Tippmann markers is the Palmer's Stabilizer. It comes in all the varieties mentioned above and is equally at home using Nitro or CO2(generally not both) the Stab is adjustable from 0-900psi output pressure(the pressure the reg can give to the marker), and is one of the finest regs on the market for any marker. It'll cost you about $70-90 for a Stabilizer(any type) with an extra $10-15 for mounting brackets for the Female version. It takes a few thousand rounds to really break the Stab in for maximum performance, but after that the reg will have rock solid consistency even with CO2 in almost any conditions. However a Stab that is broken in on CO2 will not perform as well if it is switched over to Nitrogen, I'm not sure if that statement works both ways or not, it might.

Another common reg is the Bob Long Torpedo, the Torp is usually used on low pressure setups as its maximum output pressure is only 600psi, and a stock Tippmann valve's minimum input pressure(the pressure the valve needs to cycle) is also in the 600psi range. With a little modding(lighter drive spring and polished internals) you can make this work passably. Realistically the Torp should be utilized in conjuction with a Low Pressure Kit(LPK). This means that, unless you can make your own LPK(can be done), you ProCarbine guys are probably out of luck with the Torpedo. Stock A-5's are also incapable of running at 600psi. The Model 98 is, rarely(vaires from marker to marker), capable of cycling at 280fps with 600psi. The torp is able to handle CO2 and Nitro fairly well, it will not be quite as consistent as the afore mentioned Stabilizer but is very good none the less. It runs about $60-70 and comes is a male setup for sure. You might want to check and see if you can't snag one second hand from an Intimidator user.

The third all purpose reg out there is the WGP Ergo, it can handle high pressures on both CO2 and Nitro, and is generally on par with the Torp. The nice thing about Ergos is that they can be purchased new for about $60-80, but are also commonly cast off by Autococker users. Thussly with a little looking one can find an Ergo for a fairly low price. The Ergo also has finger grooves which make it more comfortable for some. It comes with standard male threading and will work on all Tippmann markers stock.

There are many other regs one can use as well, I mentioned those three because they can be used effectively with both gasses and are easy to find. Get out and do some research to find which one is right for you. Before purchasing remember to check on these key traits:
  • Is it compatible with both CO2 and Nitro? Remember you may not always have whichever you are running now.
  • What range of input and output pressures is it capable of operating at?
  • Does it adjust internally of externally?
  • Will it fit my VA or Valve?

More below,

Coenen

Last edited by Coenen : 06-04-2004 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:57 PM   #2
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Continued from above...

NITRO GUYS CAN START READING AGAIN HERE
Firstly, you may wonder why I let you skip that huge, seemingly important chunk of text. All Nitrogen tanks have regulator built into them, that is, of course, how the gas inside gets from an explosive 3000psi or 4500psi down to a useable 850psi. This means, as long as you are running Nitro on your stock Tippmann you do not require a secondary regulator, sure, you can use one if you like, in which case you'd probably want to go back and read the above, but simply put, it's not required, so save yourself the trouble.

If you are a glutton for punishment:
You really want to double reg your stock Tippmann on HPA, fine, be that way. Just remember this one thing, make sure that both the tank AND secondary reg are high flowing and have a good recharge rate. Also try to have about a 75 to 100psi difference in the input and output pressures of the secondary regulator.

If you are just a freak about using CO2:
Alright, you are dead set on having CO2 be the best and most consistent thing for you ever. Anti-siphon the tank, you need to keep liquid out of the marker at all costs. Next run from the tank to a FEMALE reg. After the female run to a male or direct reg. Palmer's Pursuit Shop says that a setup like this will get you actual +or-2fps at the chrono with CO2. Just remember to watch your input and output pressures to make sure that there is sufficient difference between the two. This would also be a good way to get away with CO2 if, for some reason you have a Low Pressure Kit. I feel it also worth noting that by the time you get done paying for and setting up a system like this, you could've easily purchased a decent nitrogen tank. It's still an option though.

The Low Pressure Kit(LPK):
You've decided that even with a reg your Tippmann just isn't efficient and accurate enough, maybe you want an E-Bolt for your Model 98 Custom, or just want to customize the snot out of your A-5. ProCarbiners, sorry guys but you're left out here, unless you are a pretty good air smith and can make your own LPK, in which case, you probably wouldn't be reading this, the Carbine has no Low Pressure capability. Back to the subject though.
LPK allows you to double reg effectively, utilizing not only, the reg that is on the tank itself, but a secondary (LP)reg affording even greater consistency and a measure of increased efficiency. The LPK(Low Pressure Kit) is basically a new set of internals(valve, hammer, springs, etc.) for the marker that allow it to operate at lower pressure. With stock internals the valve in a Tippmann will not operate below 600psi, in fact it may not operate AT 600psi. With the LPK things change, the valve pin is softened and lightened, meaning less force is needed to open the valve and fire the marker. This allows for a lighter hammer and a softer drive spring, which require less back pressure to recock. A Tippmann equipped with LPK will operate effectively and efficiently in the 300-400psi range. If you are a good tinkerer, I've heard of guys doing mods that will allow you to operate even lower, down to the 150-200psi range(usually this is in conjunction with the E-bolt). The Tippmann LPK for the 98C costs about $100 and comes with a valve, vertical adapter with a volumizer, new rear cocking hammer, and springs. The LPK for the A-5 includes the new valve assembly, the VA with volumizer, a new longer length of steel braid gad line to run from the stock ASA to the secondary reg, and a higher flowing hose to power the Cyclone. NEITHER OF THEM include the secondary reg. Tippmann does distribute a reg, but it is a copy of PMI's "Pure Energy" reg and, due to mediocre performance, should be avoided. The Low Pressure Kit comes with one more, small added bonus, since the marker is operating at lower pressure with softer springs the bolt is not being pushed forward with as much force, this means more pinched paint and LESS chopped paint.

If I were to reccomend a reg for Low Pressure work:
If money is not an issue: Palmer Stabilizer, AKALMP Sidewinder, Mac Dev '04 Gladiator.
If money is an issue: Custom Products, Bob Long Torpedo, WGP Ergo.

Basically, what I just said boils down to this:
  • Reg on Anti-siphon CO2 = Decent consistency and best performance for CO2 within reason.
  • Dual Regs and Anti-siphon CO2 = Excellent consistency and, best possible performance for CO2.
  • Nitro tank just screwed into marker = Good consistency but kind of inefficient.
  • Nitro tank+LP Kit+GOOD LP reg(AKA Sidewinder) = Best consistency, added efficiency, slighty decreased chops.


Hope that helps feel free to post or PM me with questions and comments or on anything you'd like to see changed or added.

Coenen

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http://www.model98.net
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Last edited by Coenen : 06-20-2005 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:13 PM   #3
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Nice job. Adding to the Ultimate.
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Old 04-23-2004, 07:19 AM   #4
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damn you coenen, Ive been working on something to get stickied and you just blew my chances. . Its all good. Back to the drawing board.

Stickied: real nice work coenen. I can only make one recommendation. My tippmann works on my stab at pressures lower than 700, and CO2 is temperature dependent, so it can go above 800psi and below 600 and still shoot w/o uncocking. Your velocity may be low, but it will still function. But for general regulation 700psi is a FANTASTIC operating pressure.

and it would be good to mention low pressure setup operating pressure is from 300psi-400psi.

Great stuff coenen.
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:33 AM   #5
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LOL Conen, for anyone who doesn't know (which is everyone except Conen) I'm the CO2 freak that he's referring to. With my next paycheck, I'll get the female and hopefully report back.
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Old 04-23-2004, 12:50 PM   #6
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Nice!
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:38 PM   #7
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Nice work Coenen, maybe this will help cut down on the huge amount of air questions we get here.
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Old 04-23-2004, 02:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by hybrid-sniper
Nice work Coenen, maybe this will help cut down on the huge amount of air questions we get here.
nope... its not going to happen. good job coenen.
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Old 04-23-2004, 02:30 PM   #9
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Thank you all for the compliments, and thank you Yakitori for the suggestions, they'll be added shortly.

EDIT: Small changes made to the sticky. Hybrid, I'd have to agree with ERYK, unfortunately, i doubt it'll help much, it'll give us something good to link people to though.
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Last edited by Coenen : 04-23-2004 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 04-23-2004, 04:18 PM   #10
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Great job, you couldn't have said it better
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Old 04-23-2004, 04:57 PM   #11
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Nice work.
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Old 04-23-2004, 07:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
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nope... its not going to happen.
I can dream can't I

At least now less time shall be wasted in replying by simply either linking this or pointing it out.
Good thing Turambars on so much or this would be a severly cluttered forum.
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Old 06-03-2004, 01:42 PM   #13
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Ok, just to check.
I have recently acquired a Tippmann A5 with eBolt and Low pressure system. Since that cost me most of my budget I can't afford a nitrogen tank for now, so I was planning on using my CO2tank I use on my tippmann 98C in the meanwhile. Is this possible without damaging the internals of my A5? Please let me know what are the do's and don'ts.

Thanks!

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Old 06-03-2004, 06:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by snakexeyes
Ok, just to check.
I have recently acquired a Tippmann A5 with eBolt and Low pressure system. Since that cost me most of my budget I can't afford a nitrogen tank for now, so I was planning on using my CO2tank I use on my tippmann 98C in the meanwhile. Is this possible without damaging the internals of my A5? Please let me know what are the do's and don'ts.

Thanks!

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Old 06-03-2004, 07:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by snakexeyes
Ok, just to check.
I have recently acquired a Tippmann A5 with eBolt and Low pressure system. Since that cost me most of my budget I can't afford a nitrogen tank for now, so I was planning on using my CO2tank I use on my tippmann 98C in the meanwhile. Is this possible without damaging the internals of my A5? Please let me know what are the do's and don'ts.

Thanks!

Marijn
Just make sure the tank is anti siphoned.

And good job Coenen, now we have a good link to referance people to.
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Old 06-03-2004, 11:04 PM   #16
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Good job Coenen, I couldn't of done it better myself.
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Old 06-04-2004, 12:42 AM   #17
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Ok thank you guys!
Just one question (sorry for sounding like a stupid ***, paintballing isn't all that big here in Belgium )
Ho do I know if my tank is anti siphoned? I just have a regular pure energy 20oz CO2 tank from paintball-online.com. I can't find it anywhere listed on the tank whether it's anti siphoned or not...
I do use a remote with it... does that change anything?

Thanks guys!

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Old 06-04-2004, 07:32 AM   #18
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High praise coming from AO and Ha..um DM

Remotes and Anti-siphon lines DO NOT MIX. In short, a Remote with an Anti-siphon creates a siphon, this means that the marker is actually sucking liquid CO2 into the Reg, Valve, etc. not good. If you are going to stick with your remote don't worry about anti-siphon. Just start saving those Euros(Euros in Belgium right?) for Nitrogen.

I guess I'll have to add that to the body of the thread.
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:47 AM   #19
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Thanks! Well that's what I'm doing, saving for nitro... (still not sure wich is best to buy)...
So in the meanwhile I can use my A5 LP with my regular CO2 tank and my remote.. nice.
Thanks for the help!

Marijn

PS: yes Euros it is
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Old 07-06-2004, 07:28 PM   #20
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that was really helpful
one question tho, im seriously thinkin about the male palmers stabilizer for my tippmann and i have CO2 and a remote, if later i decide to switch to nitro(later as in maybe christmas or even later then that) will it compromise the performence alot or just a little
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