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Old 11-27-2003, 07:38 AM   #1
nole16k
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Looking to upgrade your Piranha? Look here for information!

It was suggested by storm10 (and props to him for helping me out) that I make an upgrade thread. Seems like it would be nice to have one, so here it goes...

*I will not be held responsible for any modifications done to your marker that result in ruining/damaging/destroying it.

For more information on products, read the reviews and do searches.


PBNation Piranha Upgrade FAQ and John from PMI's Upgrade FAQ may also help.

When it comes to upgrades, I think there is a certain order to follow to get the best performance out of your Piranha first. I am going to do this in order of what I think is the best/most important upgrade, all the way down to the least important.

Barrels

*You may need an agitating hopper before you need a new barrel. In fact, if you're having the slightest feeding problems, get an agitating hopper FIRST*

-Having a good barrel is important. While some of PMI's stock barrels are the best I have seen around (this applies to the G3 TS & 2K3 EXT Pro), there are still much better ones. Remember that Piranhas accept Spyder threaded barrels. Since we have a Barrels forum here at PBR, you can find all the information you need on barrels there. There is really no need for me to go into detail here since we have a whole forum dedicated to the subject.

Hoppers

-Once again, it is important to have a good hopper, and preferably an agitated one. Some of you may say, "Oh no, my VL200 is fine for my marker since it does not have an electronic frame," but this is not always the case. I owned a VL200 hopper once before getting my 12V Revolution, and the poor thing jammed all the time. I would be on the field shaking the marker and hopper like crazy, just trying to get the balls to feed, and to add to it, it was on my vertical feed Piranha. I wasn't even using an elbow, which can be worse. Therefore, I highly recommend that you invest in an agitated hopper to keep those paintballs feeding. It is also nice to have an agitated hopper when you have an electronic frame so it can keep up with the higher rates of fire you will be achieving, and you will be less likely to chop paintballs. Just remember that you can't shoot anyone without paint. Check out the Hoppers forum for more information on hoppers. You can get electronic/agitated hoppers for pretty cheap nowadays. I've seen 12V Revolutions go for $35 (brand new) at online paintball retailers. Be sure to pick one up!

Nitrogen/HPA/Anti-Siphoned CO2

-Are you wondering what is so much better about nitrogen than CO2? Well, if you are, there are some general advantages to nitrogen/HPA that you need to know about. First, nitrogen is cleaner than CO2. Second, nitro is generally more consistent than CO2. Third, nitrogen does not freeze up your marker and make that stupid frost shoot out of your barrel. Getting a nitrogen/HPA tank is a very good upgrade. These advanatages, however, are most effective when your CO2 is not used or setup properly. Three great CO2 articles you need to read first before forking out the cash for HPA/nitro: http://www.northarc.com/~tinker/co2.html, http://www.thingpaintball.ca/co2Use.shtml (thanks Hami), & http://obdo.flipty.com/tech-co2.htm. If you can't afford a nitrogen tank, then getting an anti-siphon tube installed in your CO2 tank is a great alternative (and you've probably noticed already from the articles I posted). Look here for more information on nitro and A/S CO2. Also, be sure to check out the rest of the Air Systems forum to find more useful information.

Regulators

Regulator Comparison Thread

-What does a regulator do? It regulates air! Read this and this for more information on how a regulator works. A good regulator is necessary in order to maintain consistency on your Piranha. Consistency is how consistent the regulator is in keeping the desired pressure it is set to output. For example: a regulator that fluctuates 10-15 FPS over the chronograph is not as consistent as a regulator that fluctuates only 2-3 FPS over the chrono. The better consistency, the better accuracy (your shot groupings will be tighter since the velocity of the paintballs leaving the barrel will be more consistent, leading to the paintballs taking a path more similar to each other). Also, if you are wanting to go low pressure, the first thing you need to buy is a regulator. Good regs. to consider when running CO2 on your Piranha are the Palmers Pursuit Stabilizer (around $80-90) or the Bob Long Torpedo (around $50). Also, good regs. that don't tolerate CO2 well, but work great on nitrogen are the AKA Sidewinder (around $80), Air America Messiah & Vigilante (around $80 and $50), and the WGP Ergo (around $50). Remember that regulators that work well on CO2 will also work well on nitro, but sometimes it is not the other way around. Be sure to check out the Air Systems forum for more information on regulators. There are many more regulators on the market than the ones I listed.

Spring Kits

-Spring kits are just all around great to have. They are an excellent way to fine tune the velocity, especially in really hot or cold weather. Another advantage is a spring kit can be used to get maximum efficiency out of your Piranha. To get optimum efficiency, start with the hardest valve spring and softest main spring in the kit and sweet-spot the regulator (here is more information about setting regulators). If you cannot get the desired velocity, switch to the next lightest valve spring and then re-sweetpost the reg. Most people experiment with different spring combinations to get the kind of performance they are looking for. Feel free to experiment yourself. They can also help to solve re-cocking problems. Spyder spring kits will work for Piranhas, just so you know. Maddman spring kits are great because they come with many springs, including valve springs. Other spring kits include Shocktech, Check-It, and 32 Degrees. Another thing you can purchase that is similar to a spring kit is a Shocktech Shim Kit. These shims just take the place of the springs guide. The installation is pretty self-explanatory if you ask me.

Bolts

-Everyone wants a new bolt nowadays. Although PMI's stock bolts perform well and are cheap, better ones can be purchased. For instance, if you are going low pressure with your Piranha, you might consider the AKA Lightning bolt. It was designed specifically for low pressure markers and it is one of the highest flowing bolts on the market. Another great bolt that everyone has been demanding and bragging about lately is the Boss Bolt. Is was created by Ross specifically for Piranhas. It is all delrin and has o-rings to reduce blow-back. Here is a great review of it (sorry; I think the thread got deleted). Other bolts include the White Wolf Blitz Bolt and the Bandit Bolt. Keep in mind that Spyder bolts can also be used in Piranhas (like the White Wolf Bolt) with small modifications. Check this thread out for information on Spyder bolts.

-Just as a side note, do not sand and polish your Piranha bolt. PMI annodizes the bolts they make, so the friction will be at its minimum. Spyder bolts, on the other hand, are not annodized, so feel free to polish them up if you want. You will not see an increase in performance if you polish your PMI bolt (these include the PMI blue, red, and green venturi bolts).
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Old 11-28-2003, 06:51 AM   #2
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Valves

-If you are looking to go low pressure with your Piranha, you might want to consider a new valve. One of the highest flowing valves currently available is the AKA Tornado Valve. AKA makes great, high quality, low pressure products. The only downside to this valve is how expensive it is. They run around $50-60. Another great valve that is about half the price of a Tornado Valve is the Maddman Rocket Valve. It is also very high flowing. Other valves include the 32 Degrees Magna Port, Extreme Rage Omega Valve, and PMI Turbo Valve (the best valued valve out there, by far). Keep in mind that most Spyder valves will fit in a Piranha. If you are unsure as to whether one will fit or not, call or e-mail the company for assurance. You can see most of the Spyder valves here.

-A high flow valve pin can be found here, but you will most likely not find a performance increase.

-If you have a Piranha G3 EXT Pro or G3 Pro TS, your marker already has a PMI Turbo Valve installed (2K3/2K4 Ext's, Evo's, and SRT's also have high-flowing valves and you should not worry about upgrading to a Turbo Valve). This is a great valve and I highly recommend that you don't waste your money on any other aftermarket valve. It is nice and high flowing. If you have any other type of Piranha, such as an STS or VTL, you can purchase a PMI Turbo Valve for $13. It is a great valve at a great price. Also, if you don't have a Turbo Valve on your marker, I do not recommend modifying the stock valve to make your Piranha operate at a lower pressure. First, you could completely ruin the valve, forcing you to buy another one. Second, valves should be very smooth to keep airflow smooth and consistent. If you have a modified valve with rough edges, your valve will be a no good, inconsistent piece of metal IMO. Last, if you have a Piranha without a Turbo Valve and without a regulator, only upgrade to a higher flowing valve if you are going to purchase a regulator also. Your marker will not function properly if you have a high flow Turbo or Lightning valve and are running at 700-800 PSI. Plus, Lightning and Rocket valves will be damaged if you use them while running at a high pressure. These are some things to take into consideration.

Trigger Frames

*Spyder, Black Dragun, and Rebel trigger frames do not fit Piranhas*

-2K4 E-Force frames, Pro-E frames, and Piranha Electro Pneumatic Kits are now available at R. J. Skateworks!

-Want to shoot faster with your Piranha? No problem: get an electronic trigger frame. Electronic trigger frames increase the ROF of markers dramatically. Instead of the trigger raising the sear mechanically, most e-frames use a micro-switch that is depressed by the trigger, which sends an electric signal to the solenoid. Once the signal reaches the solenoid, it then lowers the sear, enabling the marker to fire. Most electronic frames have super-short trigger pulls, and some are even adjustable. PMI manufactures its own line of electronic E-Force frames, which can be found at XPaintball and R. J. Skateworks. The 2K3 plastic E-Force frame has semi, full-auto, and 3, 6, & 9 round burst modes. Information on a blade trigger designed for this frame can be found here (the Boss Blade trigger is now for sale, and a 2K2 E-Force Boss Blade trigger is in the prototype stage: http://rjskateworks.com/accessories.shtm). Also, IWFEU Triggers seem to be popular. The other E-Force frame is the G3 aluminum one. The only mode it has is semi, but an upgrade board and optional PDS system can be purchased from PDPaintball. Other e-frames for the Piranha include the Mako Storm Frame and the Centerflag Hyperframe. I have not had any experience with the Hyperframe, but I would not recommend the Storm frame to anyone. The reason is Mako is no longer in business. Therefore, if you have a problem with the frame, you will have to pay for the repair. Also, I had a major solenoid weakness problem or something related to it up until I sold the frame. The problem started occurring while Mako was out, so I was also out of luck.

-If you are not looking for an e-frame, but still want to upgrade, then you can find non-electro Piranha frames here. Personally, I would not hesitate with purchasing the Composite Piranha frame. It does not feel like cheap plastic and is very light.

Hammers/Strikers

-If you have upgraded almost everything on your Piranha, but you're still looking for more, you might want to consider a titanium hammer. These can be purchased from Dark Horizon Corporation. There are a numerous amount of advantages to having a Ti hammer, including reduced kick. The less kick your marker has, the better accuracy. All the advantages can be found here.


Other information

-Be sure to check out this thread, also. It was created for Spyder owners that want to upgrade their marker. This information can also be useful for Piranha owners. Otters also has a Spyder upgrade article.

-Piranha upgrades can be found at many places. A few are PBGear, R. J. Skateworks, XPaintball, and parts can be found here & here.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to PM me. Thanks
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Old 12-12-2003, 06:39 PM   #3
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The following upgrades are "non-performance upgrades". They are not listed in any order of importance (opposed to my first two posts).

Vertical Feed Necks

-If you own a 2K3 Piranha EXT Pro or STS, then you have a threaded vertical feed neck. You can easily replace it if you would like a different feed neck, especially if the hopper(s) you use do not fit too well inside the feed neck (too tight or loose). Any feed neck will fit, as long as it has Impulse, Shocker, Bushmaster, or Omen threads (they are all identical). Check It Products makes this great clamping feed neck.

LPCs (Low Pressure Chambers)

-What is a low pressure chamber? If you are wondering, it's that big thing that sticks out right below the barrel, coming out of the vertical adapter/ASA. LPCs are used to hold air, usually a pretty good amount, and they help when your marker is running low pressure. If you have a LPC on your Piranha, don't bother getting a larger one or upgrading to a RAM Air Chamber. RAM Air chambers and larger LPCs are nothing but hype. The companies just want you to go out and spend another $10 or $15, making you think your marker will perform better. Well, it won't. If you want a different LPC, it is purely a cosmetic upgrade. They can, however, help if you do not have a LPC at all. If you don't have one, you may need to buy a new ASA that is compatible with one.

-Here are the ways Lurker and Ottersccustoms.com view LPCs:
  • "I donít much care for the LPCs. It can actually hurt consistency by forcing the reg to supply more air, in an inefficient setup. You really don't need one. Youíre better off saving the money for a good reg. Also, in airball, LPCs decrease the effective length of your barrel as a tool for pushing bunkers down."

    -Lurker27



    "Many of the Spyders now come with a LPC (or low-pressure chamber). Another name for it is 'volumizer'. Some people will change them to a "better" one. Sorry, they're all the same. It is just a tube that stores extra volume of air before being fired. The only time you should change it is for the looks. There may be one that will match your Spyders look better. Some Spyders do not have an LPC. I had to get one for my original and SE Spyders."

    -http://www.ottersccustoms.com/upgrades.html; © Copyright 2002. Timothy Gochenauer. All Rights Reserved.


Gauges

-Are you wondering what PSI your Piranha is running at? You can easily find out by purchasing a gauge. Yes, there are gauges that are extremely accurate, but they are also costly. Basically, any gauge made by a paintball manufacturer will work fine. KAPP Gauges look really nice and come in a variety of pressure ranges. It doesn't matter which gauge you get, but you should keep some things in mind...If you Piranha is running at a high pressure, say around 800 PSI, I recommend getting a gauge with a max PSI of or 1200. I say this so if your tank or regulator ever spikes, your gauge will not over-read and bust. The same thing applies with LP Piranhas: if your marker is running at 300 PSI, get a gauge that has a max PSI of 600 or so.

-If you have a Piranha G3 EXT Pro, Pro TS, or 2K3 EXT Pro, your marker already comes with a gauge that is located on the ASA/vertical adapter. You can buy a new one if you would like. Most other Piranhas do not come with gauges. There are many places you can put a gauge, including the reg., ASA/vertical adapter, and bottomline/ASA. You can also purchase a Lapco Dual Adapter, which has a gauge port on it. If you don't have a gauge port on your vertical adapter, you could drill and tap one (size = 1/8 NPT; directions here). I would only recommend doing this if you are familiar with drilling and tapping, and know where to drill and tap on the vertical adapter. You can always ask an air-smith if you have any questions.

Drop Forwards/Bottomline ASAs

-Need that tank dropped a little more forward or lower? No problem, just pick up a drop forward (or a new one if you already have one). You may find using a drop forward more comfortable, rather than just an ASA mounted on the bottom of the trigger frame. Drop forwards are really preference items, so try and test out different ones before you buy. Personally, I use and really enjoy the KAPP Drop Zone. It is a wonderful drop forward that is fully adjustable. It also looks great. BTW, drops will usually increase the height of the marker, which is why most professional paintball players do not use them. When purchasing a drop, make sure you get one with inline holes, and not Spyder holes.

Expansion Chambers*

-*Although an expansion chamber can be considered a performance upgrade, getting an anti-siphon tube installed in your CO2 tank is a cheap and better alternative. Check my first post for more infomation on anti-siphoned CO2.

-Here are direct quotes from Mack Daddy420 and Ottersccustoms.com:
  • Expansion chambers

    Okay, here is what it boils down to when talking about expansion chambers. To decide on whether it is worth the money or not, you must first conclude what an expansion chamber does. It simply has little chambers in it with allow the C02 to expand into gas form. The reason for this is that if liquid c02 gets in your gun, it could freeze it up. Expansion chambers dont really work when your shooting fast. Your best bet would be to buy an anti-siphon kit for your tank. It will be much better than an expansion chamber, and the best part, they are under 10 bucks. your best best is to save up for a regulator that permits anti-siphoned tank, like the few i mentioned in the regulator topic above. Here is an expansion chamber/regulator FAQ.

    -Mack Daddy420
  • Expansion Chamber. They work, don't get me wrong. But having an anti-siphon tube installed will be so much more better for consistancey. Let say that are playing in 75* weather. Excellent for CO2. Or is it? As you shoot your marker, the tank will get cold. The more you shoot, the colder it gets. CO2 doesn't like the cold. As it gets cold, there is less pressure that evaporates into a gas. So, your tank pressure can be 800-900psi when you first start out. As you shoot, this pressure will reduce. Could reduce to 500psi. As you shoot the liquid will be pulled out of the tank and into the marker causing velocity spikes and/or quick freeze your o-rings and break. Having an anti-siphon tube will only (if installed correctly) pull the gas out. Only in extreme cold climates will I ever suggest an x-chamber. I would actually tell you to use a remote line and carry your tank on your hip before switching to an x-chamber.

    -http://www.ottersccustoms.com/upgrades.html; © Copyright 2002. Timothy Gochenauer. All Rights Reserved.


Sights & Scopes

-If you just absolutely have to waste your money on a sight/scope, then go ahead and purchase one. Will this help your shot? Most likely not. Paintballs do not fly perfectly straight, and they probably never will. Scopes are needed for rifles, not paintball markers. Besides, what's the point of having a scope on a vertical feed Piranha? The VF would just get in the way. I recommend spending your money on other upgrades, rather than a scope.
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Old 02-22-2004, 11:13 AM   #4
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an x-chamber would be an excelent upgrade.
it allows the liquid to expand allowing more shots for your buck, it also allows use of your gun in colder weather for those of us who are crazy enough to play.
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Old 02-24-2004, 10:56 AM   #5
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Thanks for the upgrades!
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by pbplayah
an x-chamber would be an excelent upgrade.
it allows the liquid to expand allowing more shots for your buck, it also allows use of your gun in colder weather for those of us who are crazy enough to play.
an anti-siphon PROFFESIONALLY installed would be better. then put a reg where the expansion chamber would be.
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Old 03-12-2004, 03:31 PM   #7
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really helpful nole16k....
top man...
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:48 AM   #8
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Will this bolt work with Fishes?

It's listed as a Spyder

They work great on other guns

http://www.apbbolts.com/spyder_bolts.htm
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:47 AM   #9
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I haven't seen any info about the PMI Blue bolt. Is it any good? And is it any different from the stunningly similar Red and Pink bolt?
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Old 03-29-2004, 02:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
I haven't seen any info about the PMI Blue bolt. Is it any good? And is it any different from the stunningly similar Red and Pink bolt?
The blue bolt is not as good as the red, pink, green, or Boss Bolt. Contrary to the red and pink bolts, the blue bolt does not accept tank o-rings (the pink one does, but the red does not), has a removable venturi face, and has a smaller air-inlet hole. Those are the main differences.

The blue bolt doesn't suck, but it's not as good as the others.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:05 AM   #11
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TigerShark bolts would be a great upgrade...
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Old 06-20-2004, 02:42 PM   #12
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rite now i have an EXT PRO 2k3 ....... da only thing i upgraded is the barrel with a 14" Whisper barrel and put on a evoloution II on it..
wat should i do to it to make it compete against Autocockers??
HELP PLEASE
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Old 06-20-2004, 03:45 PM   #13
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There are some things you can do to improve your accuracy. First, you should make sure your paint matches your barrel. I would even look into a barrel kit if I were you. Check the Barrels and Paint forum for more information on that. Second, you should get a new regulator. This will improve the consistency tremendously, which improves the accuracy since the shot groupings will be tighter. Next, you should get the Boss Bolt and possibly a lighter hammer. The result you'll get from these two upgrades is less recoil, which also improves accuracy. Finally, you could get a spring kit. Using lighter and/or different combinations of springs will allow you to fine tune the pressure and/or velocity and reduce recoil even more. A Piranha will never be like an Autococker. Both of them have disadvantages and advantages over each other. If you get the upgrades I listed above, your accuracy will improve by a large amount.
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Old 06-20-2004, 03:59 PM   #14
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Rite now im thinking of getting these upgrades for it
-CP Grip Regulator or AKA Sidewinder
-Nitro
-Boss Blade Trigger
-Maddman Spring Kit

Is that Boss Bolt better than a Tiger Bolt ?
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rondel.
Is that Boss Bolt better than a Tiger Bolt ?
I personally cannot tell you the answer based on the performace of both the products, as I have used neither bolt. However, the TigerShark bolt was just recently introduced to paintball consumers. This being said, the Boss Bolt has a set reputation of being pretty much the best aftermarket bolt available for Piranhas since it has been around for a while. IMO, I'd go w/the Boss Bolt just because there is nothing wrong with it and it has been spoken very highly of. Also, I like the fact that the Boss Bolt has o-rings. I believe that all blowbacks need o-rings on the bolts.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:19 PM   #16
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do u know any other site that sells Boss Bolts other than rjskateworks.com?
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Old 06-21-2004, 05:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rondel.
do u know any other site that sells Boss Bolts other than rjskateworks.com?
Unfortunately, there are no other sites.
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Old 07-20-2004, 08:22 AM   #18
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nole, Which of the palmers would you reccomend for a EVO running CO2. I was leaning toward the Palmers stablizer male. There are about 5 different palmers and you obviously know your regs. thanks
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Old 07-20-2004, 01:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazycanuk99
nole, Which of the palmers would you reccomend for a EVO running CO2. I was leaning toward the Palmers stablizer male. There are about 5 different palmers and you obviously know your regs. thanks
The Male is the best choice.
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Old 07-31-2004, 08:00 PM   #20
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can u "hot wire" the trigger to give it a debounce/turbo mode?
so that every time u pull the trigger it fires and every time you let go it fires?

i know u can do it wit han imagine and a tes
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