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Old 02-10-2004, 07:10 PM   #1
amzng_spyderman
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the new cocker faq, now with strawberry flavor!

this is the new cocker faq! re-done and re-organized for easy navigating. here's how it works: post a question, answer, or both. it will be copied and pasted into the correct section of the faq. if you answered a question, your name will go into the credits section.

Troubleshooting

Question: Paintballs seem to roll out of my barrel on my Autococker, why?
Answer: Since the Autococker is a closed bolt system, the bolt pushes the ball into the end of the barrel before it is fired. If the paintball bore size you are using is too small for your barrel, you will experience roll out. Your best bet is to buy a barrel kit and match the paint bore size to the correct bore size barrel back/insert.

Question: My Autococker chops balls alot, why?
Answer: First thing you should really do is practice with your trigger. You may be "Short-stroking" it. This means that you're not pulling the trigger all the way back, then letting it go all of the way forward. If you short-stroke it, it may cause you to chop.

Secondly, your Autococker may be timed incorrectly. Re-time your Autococker and try again. If you arn't confident with timing it yourself, bring it to your local pro shop.

To reduce chopping, you can always try setting your Autococker to "pinch" paint. Or you can try a JAM Anti-Chop bolt.

Question:How do you keep the cocking rod from falling out?
Answer:To keep your cocking rod on, you can use blue loctite, which is removeable. It's pretty much safe unless you screw the rod in too far. To apply the loctite, follow the directions on the bottle. Also, you might try using teflon tape, for a more replaceable solution. To apply the tape, wrap it counter clockwise around the threading of the rod twice. Only screw it in finger tight. If the knob is coming off, you can tighten the setscrew located inside the knob, which is accessible from the back. You can tighten it using a SAE allen key, not sure of the size. A rule of thumb when tightening your cocking rod is to only screw it in finger tight. Any more, and you run the risk of messing up the threads.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-01-2004 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:11 PM   #2
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Timing
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:12 PM   #3
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Air Systems

Question: Will CO2 ruin my Autococker?
Answer: Not in its gas form. Cockers were first run on co2 way back in the day. However, liquid co2 will damage the o-rings. It is recommended that you can an anti-syphon kit and a palmer's stabilizer regulator for optimum performance and long marker life.

Question: I just got my Autococker, should I use C02 or HPA?
Answer: You can use either. BUT, if you are using C02, you take take the risk of ruining internal o-rings and getting bad efficiency. If you must use C02, it is recommended to have an Anti-Syphon system installed into your C02 bottle. With Anti-Syphon, no liquid C02 will enter into the marker and it will be alot more consistent, but with Anti-Syphon, it still does not guarantee C02 won't condense inside the marker. But in the end, having your C02 bottle Anti-Syphoned is better then not having it at all. C02 is also affected by outside temperature, so your velocity may change from time to time.

It is recommended that HPA (High Pressure Air) is used because it is cleaner and will give you better consistency. HPA is not affected by outside temperature. The only downside to HPA is the cost of buying an HPA system, it is very expensive.

Question: What should I use to seal air fittings?
Answer: This is not cocker specific, but you should use either 3-4 layers of teflon tape or 1-2 drops of blue loctite on the external threads of the part you are going to install.

Question: How do i adjust my velocity?
Answer: take out the cocking rod and use the proper size allen wrench and turn the ivg either to the left to lower the velocity or the right to increase it.

Question: Should i use a high pressure or low pressure tank?
Answer: High pressure. you should always have twice as much pressure being fed into the inline reg than what is being put into the gun. this reduces the risk of shootdown.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-31-2004 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:13 PM   #4
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Tools/Common Measurements

Screws:
Trigger frame: 1/8
Banjo bolt: 3/16
IVG: 3/16
Front block set screw: 3/16
Cocking rod set screw: 3/32
Three-way coupler set screw: 1/16
ASA Screw: 1/4" 12 point socket

Internals
Lug set screw: 1/8
Valve: Valve tool (its a special tool, invest in one)

E-blade
Eye: 1/16
Trigger frame set screws: 1/16

Question: What is the threading for grip frame screws, the lpr, and air fittings?
Answer: The grip frame screws on the body and the screw holes for the drop forward/bottom line are 10-32. All pb markers with standard measurements (spyders are an example of metric markers) have air fittings that are 1/8-27 NPT.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-02-2004 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:14 PM   #5
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Helpful Links

Useful Autococker-related links -

Moody Paintball

Paintball Ravi

Autococker Internet Resource

Madcocker Autococker Articles

The Cog Bizland Diagram

Timing Video

Endless Paintball
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-01-2004 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:14 PM   #6
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Basic Cleaning/Maintenance

Question: What kind of regular maintenance will my autococker need?

Answer: You will need to regularly (after each day of play)...

- remove your bolt, and apply a good lubricant to its O-rings. Do not use vaseline! It attracts dirt, and will hurt your marker more than help it. Only oil your bolt if it's made of metal, delrin bolts will possibly swell up if they are oiled.

-either...
--Remove your regulator/foregrip and put a few drops of oil into the vertical adaptor, or...
--Put a few drops of oil into the ASA you screw your tank into. Again, only use a good lubricant, preferably one designed for paintball markers. It's better to remove your regulator/foregrip and put the oil in there than it is to put it directly into your ASA, because too much oil can eventually kill your regulator. Once in a while though, it won't hurt. It's actually reccomended, for most regs, that you oil them

--Note: After putting oil into your VA, you'll want to cycle the marker 20-30 times without the barrel on to fully distribute the oil.--

-Clean off any dirt or fingerprints on the exterior of your cocker. Take a 50/50 water/rubbing alcohol solution in a spray bottle, spray it onto your cocker's body and wipe it clean. It'll come out all nice and shiny.

-Every so often, remove your 3-way shaft and put a generous amount of silicone grease (or dow33, whatever you'd like to call it) on its O-rings. This will prevent and solve leaks, and give you a smoother trigger pull.

Doing these things regularly can save you lots of trouble in the long run, and doesn't take long to do at all. Definitely worth the time and effort.

Maintenance:
Don't trash around your marker. The better you take care of it, the better it will take care of you. If you have any reason to believe your timing is off, make sure by cycling some air and even paint if possible through the marker, before attempting to re-time your autococker. If you are an expert in timing and understand what the problem is, by all means fix it. If you are unsure, think about the problem before you take any action.

Question: What kind of lube should i use?

Answer: Any oil made specifically for paintball guns will work fine. Gold cup, pmi oil, etc. Dow 33 and Dow 55 also work great on the bolt and 3 way, but they have to be applied directly and not cycled through the pneumatics via the asa.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 04-05-2004 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:38 PM   #7
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Chopping/Shortstroking

Although Saint has posted something about this down a few posts, I feel a responsibility to put more in because it looks bad as a blank section:

Common Questions

1. What is shortstroking?

Answer: Short stroking is when a person pulls the trigger usually all the way back, but then doesn't let the trigger return all the way forward. Sometimes if they have a short trigger pull they can still do this. Or they get going fast enough and don't have their timing exactly right and pull too fast before a full cycling of the cocker can be completed

2. If my LPR is set really low will I still shortstroke?

Answer: Yes you still can. It doesn't matter if your LPR pressure is 1psi. You can still short stroke. LPR pressure has nothing to do with short stroking what so ever

3. Why am I seeing paint breaking in my barrel. Is it my barrel?

Answer: You're seeing yourself shortstroke. See question#1 for what this is. If you know it's not that (i.e you're shooting 1 ball and you're seeing this). Either you have balls in the barrel already. The paint is too large for the barrel. Or you've got something in the barrel breaking the paint. Rarely are those the cases. Usually you'll only be seeing the paint breaking if you're trying to shoot really fast on a mech cocker

4. How can I stop shortstroking? And can I retime it?

Answer: Simple answer. Learn how to do a full pull. Sit at night at home, wherever, and pull the trigger all the way back. Hold it there for a second. Let it go all the way, hold for 1 second. Keep practicing til you don't need to hold it at each place for 1 second and you still know that you're doing a full pull. By doing this you'll learn how far the trigger goes forward and how far it goes back.
And no you can't time out a chance of shortstroking. No matter how good you are at it. You can get close but there is always the possibility to chop


[size=2]Common Misconceptions:[/size=2]

1. I've got a mech cocker, and if it's suppose to shoot every time I pull the trigger why am I chopping

Answer: This is misconception to a degree that many people who have cockers have. It's true that it will shoot everytime the trigger is pulled, however, and a big however, that's for 1 complete or full pull. That means that you pull the trigger all the way back, and let it return all the way forward. Many people who have chopping problems blame either their timing and/or their hopper for not feeding fast enough. They always say, "But I can pull 12bps, it's the stupid hopper or stupid timing". You can usually only pull a mechanical cocker around 7-9 maybe 10 bps, at most.

2. I can't be shortstroking I have X ram and X lpr and X 3 way, so I know my timing is so short that it's still not possible to short stroke

Answer: Yet again, on a mechanical cocker, and most any other marker on the market, you can always short stroke. Just because you have the highest products and a 1mm pull on a cocker doesn't mean anything. You can still pull to fast before the cycling completes and hence you've got yourself a good sloppy mess

Will add more later, Sorry if its hard to read...I think my friends put **** in my drink last night.
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Last edited by chibissj : 03-12-2004 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:19 PM   #8
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Misc.

Real and non WGP liscensed cockers.

Non WGP
- ans
- roughneck- domination
- extreme- system x - vengeance
- aka -merlin
- hybrid
- ccm
- Jackal
- works
- mountain view
- spearhead
- spanky
- bonebrake
- ppc krusher
- warped sports - has done both......
- fireball mountain

------------------------------------------------------

WGP liscensed

- WGP
- Planet Eclipse
- Murder inc
- Dye
- Kapp
- Evolution- besales
- P&P
- Meteor
- Mac Dev
- Freeflow
- Shocktech

Question: How fast can a cocker shoot, BPS wise?

Answer: Most mech cockers can reach an average of 6-8 bps, sometimes a little higher. E-bladed cockers are capped by your settings, hopper, cycling speed, and your fingers. The sky's the limit.

QEV's

Technical
The Eclipse QEV's are designed to maximise the potential of your ram. Dimensions are: length13.4mm, width 9.55mm, height 10.4mm. Them come in singles.

Worried if the Eclipse QEV's will fit your existing ram? Here's a list of
the rams that they will instantly fit into and a list of those that will
need a little modification.

Compatible:
Palmer rams,
ANS Mini,
SMC rams,
Belsales,
Free-flow,
Nexus,
Shocktech,
KAPP.

Modification required:
STO ram (rear hole need re-tapping to 10/32")
Stock WGP (both holes need re-tapping to 10/32")

Question: Can I get a new feedneck for my autococker?

Answer: It depends on which model you own. If you have a base model marker, such as the prostock, '03, or '02, you will have to have the body rethreaded first. 3dspaintball.com and worr will do this for a price. Higher up models like the orracle and black magic require autococker threaded feednecks. If you own a non-wgp bodied cocker, it's likely that you will need angel threaded feednecks.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 08-24-2004 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 02-19-2004, 04:18 PM   #9
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Credits

this section is dedicated to the members that made this faq possible. (no particular order)

amzng_spyderman
UTLadiesMan
SaiNt
chibissj
Ryan314
teufelhunden
nole16k
Blue Baller
firekow
snipa
erickillebrew
blacklabel56
Wilkie
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-15-2004 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:40 PM   #10
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Question: When I shoot my paintballs don't go very far at all. My timing is not screwed up.

Answer: The bolt is in upside down.
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Old 03-03-2004, 07:01 PM   #11
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blacklabel's guide to upgrading ur ram, lpr, and 3-way
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Old 03-08-2004, 07:52 PM   #12
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Question: What is the basic operating pressure of an autococker?

Answer: Most autocockers operate in the neighborhood of 300-400. Although some claim that they can get their cocker to cycle at 150psi or so, this is not the most efficient setup for your cocker. Proper setup and timing can reduce chopping. Do NOT be mislead by the common misconception of: LP = the best.

If you wish to attain better efficiency, a spring kit and sweet spotted inline reg will do wonders.
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Old 03-08-2004, 08:00 PM   #13
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Chopping and Shortstroking

Question: Why is my autococker chopping? [I know for fact that the balls are being chopped and that my loader is keeping up with my ROF]

Answer: You are most likely experiencing shortstroking. Shortstroking occurs for a number of reasons, but usually fall into 2 categories.

1. You are not letting your cocker cycle properly by prematurely releasing the trigger while its in its "pull" stage.
2. Your timing is off.

Now your wondering how to solve these issues. If your having problems because of problem #1, only thing you can do from here is to practice your fingering, or [this may seem harsh] get a new gun because the autococker is not for you. Or if you can cash out 300-400 bucks, you can get an e-frame which prevents shortstroking nearly 100% of the time. Problem #2 can consist of many things that concern timing. Chopping can be caused because of poor timing in almost all aspects of timing such as setting your back block, three-way, etc. If you feel that you know what the problem is, then fix it. If you are less experienced, have someone who has experience in timing cockers take a look.
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Old 03-09-2004, 08:37 AM   #14
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oh my section stayed in heh, should I edit it now?
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Old 03-10-2004, 03:12 PM   #15
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in light of a recent thread about this, i am gunna add this Q/A

Q: When do I set the amount of the bolt visible through the feed tube? When the lug goes past the sear and makes a click or when the back block will not go back anymore?

A: When you pull the back block back, it should go about 1/8" back past when you hear the click.

i dont think that is worded to good, so when this is edited into one of the catagories, feel free to re-word it.


Added by UTL:

How about... 'Pull it all the way back, then very slowly release it until it comes to a rest. This should be just as it crosses the cocking point.'
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Old 03-12-2004, 06:34 AM   #16
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Saint I put some more information into the original chopping/shortstroking post.
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Old 03-28-2004, 02:31 PM   #17
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Question about the post on wgp and non wgp cockers

i was wondering if dragun empire dragunflys are autocockers, and if drallions are autocockers for i have heard that drallions are and that the original dragunfly was but now they are not. i am very confused. plz help! and also, could u put some links about timing because the links on this havent worked so plz post the ones u know i need to learn my drally is in the mail! THANKS!
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Old 03-28-2004, 03:01 PM   #18
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Closed bolt semi automatics made by dragun are not autocockers. They operate in the same way as autocockers, but are not in fact made with WGP bodies, and therefore are not autocockers.
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Old 03-28-2004, 03:07 PM   #19
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well actually the drallion has an orracle body check it out and if it only has to have a wgp body and its a cocker then the drallion is a cocker, but i didnt think the flys were
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Old 03-28-2004, 03:27 PM   #20
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Actually, they don't call it an autococker at the dragun website. It's also not on the list of authentic cockers at wgppress.com, and if you look carefully, there's a bit of milling to the left of the detent that isn't there on the orracle. It's got nearly the same milling, but no threaded feedneck, and it's not made by WGP. It's a focker.

Last edited by firekow : 03-28-2004 at 03:32 PM.
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