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Old 02-20-2004, 05:45 AM   #1
amzng_spyderman
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e-cocker faq!

this is the first ever PBR e-cocker faq! post questions and they shall be answered!
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-18-2004 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 02-27-2004, 03:33 PM   #2
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I will start out with THE MOST frequently asked question about each Electronic Autococker Frame... and that is......

QUESTION: Which frame is better? The Eclipse E-Blade or the RaceGun Frame?

Well, I can answer that question very simply ....

ANSWER: NEITHER FRAME IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER! PERIOD.

Let me start out with some PROS and CONS about each of the frames. I will try my hardest to be as completely un-biased as possible. Yes, I do own an EBlade, but I have never bashed a RaceFrame because I believe each frame is equally as good and has it's ups and downs. I have also used both frames.

---PROS/CONS WITH A * BY THE SIDE OF THEM CAN EITHER BE A PRO OR A CON DEPENDING ON THE USER OF THE FRAME. IT ALSO MIGHT HAVE SOME OF MY OWN OPINION ADDED. I AM DOING THIS TO TRY AND BE COMPLETELY UN-BIASED TO EACH FRAME AND NOT TRY TO CAUSE CONTROVERSY!---

The Eclipse E-Blade Frame

PROS -

-The E-Blade comes standard with the frame, solenoid, anti-chop eye, eye covers, hoses, screws, stickers, and a fully laminated 50 page manual. (*NOTE* The WorrBlade kit comes with everything I listed above, but also comes with a nylon set-screw lock down hammer and an all delrin bolt w/ o-rings.)

*-The E-Blade uses a standard 9v alkaline battery to power it on. Compared to the RaceFrame, the RaceFrame uses a rechargeable battery-pack.

-The E-Blade has an outer LED screen display on the back of the frame used to view and change settings easily.

*-The E-Blade uses a reflective anti-chop eye. With this eye, you can adjust the sensitivity for different colors of paint.

*-The E-Blade trigger is a magnetic type. It uses a magnet to return the trigger instead of a standard spring trigger like the RaceFrame.

-The E-Blade has three factory pre-sets. Factory Slow, Factory Medium, and Factory fast speeds. These modes are good because it allows you to set a certain Factory setting to meet the capabilities of your marker. These Factory pre-sets also come in handy when you mess something up on the frame because you can always reset back whenever in doubt.

-The E-Blade frame is cheaper in price compared to the RaceFrame.

*-The Eclipse E-Blade comes standard with a flat blade style trigger and the WorrBlade comes standard with a double/curved style trigger.

CONS

-The E-Blade is very VERY Dependant on batteries. A low battery can really alter it's capabilities/functions. They say you will get 20-22,000 shots off of one standard 9v battery... don't believe it. Eclipse recommends that you use Duracell Ultras in the E-Blade, I recommend you do so also! With my experience, I have tried Rayovac 9v's and got only 4,000-6,000 shots. Not many. Same with Energizers. But, when I tried Duracell Ultras, I have gotten near 15,000 shots before it was dead.

*-The E-Blades' anti chop eye is a much debated topic. Of my experience, it's either you completely love the eye, or you just completely hate it! It's a reflective type, so paint color matters. It's not like the break-beam eye where paint color does not matter at all. I have not come across a problem yet
with my EBlade eye, its working great right now. But, the majority of people believe the EBlade eye is not worth it, and is very cheaply made. I've seen people go through eyes like crazy, even keeping extra eyes in their toolbox. My final say on the EBlade eye is "Not as good as the break-beam eye system, but when it works, it works good."

-The E-Blade only has one firing speed, semi-automatic. Another much debated about topic. People are always asking "why? why no full auto on the E-Blade?!." Well simply because Planet Eclipse could not put a fully-automatic mode due to certain laws in England. Yes, it would be nice to have full-auto on this frame to really test your markers firing capabilities, but, there is nothing we can do about it so, stop crying about it

*-The magnetic trigger is COMPLETELY PERSONAL PREFERENCE. IT IS A PRO TO SOME, AND A CON TO OTHERS. BEST THING TO DO IS TO TRY BOTH, AND DECIDE FROM THERE!

-The E-Blade does not use standard .45 grips. At the moment, the only grips that fit the E-Blade are the grips that come with the Frame stock.

The RaceGun Frame

PROS

*-The RaceGun Frame uses an internal rechargeable battery-pack. This will give you 40k+ shots on one full charge. This is stunning compared to the E-Blades shot count on one 9v.

-The RaceGun Frame has multiple firing speeds including fully automatic. Compared to the E-Blade only having one firing speed.

*-The RaceGun Frame uses a spring trigger instead of a magnetic trigger like the E-Blade frame

*-The RaceGun Frame uses a break-beam type anti-chop eye. Paint color does not matter with this anti-chop eye system.

*-The RaceGun Frame uses a Computer/Palm Pilot to change firing modes/settings.

-The RaceGun Frame is a standard .45 frame which allows after market .45 grips.

-The RaceGun Frame has two style triggers, bump and flat style.

CONS

*-If the battery pack in the RaceGun Frame ever dies on you during a game or at the field, you are pretty much screwed. The only solution to this is to make sure you charge it fully before you go play!

-The RaceGun Frame does not come with the anti-chop eye and covers like the E-Blade frame does. This is another 60-70 bucks or so you have to dish out if you want an anti-chop system for your RaceGun Frame.

*-LIKE I SAID EARLIER ABOUT THE E-BLADE FRAME. THE RACEGUN FRAME USES A SPRING TRIGGER. THIS IS A PRO FOR SOME, AND A CON FOR OTHERS. BEST THING TO DO IS TO TRY THEM BOTH AND MAKE A DECISION FROM THERE!

*-The RaceGun Frame needs a computer or Palm Pilot to change firing modes/settings. This can be a major hassle if you need to change something at the field and you don't have a a Palm Pilot or a Computer on hand.

FINAL VERDICT!

Before I go any further, I say again! I HAVE TRIED MY ULTIMATE BEST TO TRY AND BE COMPLETELY UN-BIASED TO EACH OF THE TWO FRAMES I HAVE DISCUSSED. I BELIEVE EACH FRAME IS PLENTY FAST AND HAS IT'S OWN UPS AND DOWNS WHICH MAKES BOTH FRAME EQUALLY AS GOOD. YES, I HAVE ADDED SOME OF MY OWN OPINION ON EACH BUT THEY WERE ADDED WITHOUT ANY INTENTION OF BEING BIASED.

This is just very basic information on each of the frames. I suggest people that are looking into getting an Electronic Frame for their Autococker to read this over, and make a decision based on what will suit YOU the best! What don't you like? What do you like? The BEST thing to do is to go out and try both frames before you make your decision. This is the BEST way to make a final decision. Get a feel for each frame, decide what you like and dislike, then make a decision! The WORST thing you can do is buy the frame without even trying it, then getting it and deciding you don't like the feel for it. And by this time, it might be too late to go back!

Investing in an Electronic Frame is very expensive and a big commitment! So make it a big deal and test them out before you make a decision!
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Old 02-29-2004, 10:50 AM   #3
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Another really big FAQ is...

QUESTION: Will an E-Blade work on my stock Autococker?

ANSWER: Most certainly YES!

Nothing else is needed to actually make the E-Blade run successfully! A stock Autococker will perform well but of course, if you really want to take advantage of the frame, faster parts will be needed!

--This is referring to a stock WGP marker--

-Stock brass ram will cycle around 16-18 cps, nothing more. If you really want some killer speed, some good choices of rams are: Belsales .44 magnum ram, Eclipse Nexus ram (This is a Belsales .44 magnum ram), KAPP F.A.T. ram, SMC ram and STO ram are some good choices for electro cocker's. Another great way to speed up your rams' speed is to add Quick Exhaust Valves (QEV) to it. QEVs replace the existing barb on the ram. With QEVs, instead of the air exhausting through the solenoid/3-way, the air escapes right at the site of the QEV resulting in faster cycling speeds and lower LPR pressure. QEVs come in many different sizes and brands. WGP makes a Turbo Release Valve (TRV) which is the same exact idea as the QEV.

-Stock LPR will work absolutely fine but can be a pain in the neck when you have to adjust the cocking pressure. It is also a great idea to buy an externally adjustble LPR because of how the E-Blade solenoid works. It is very sensitive. Anything over 90psi into the solenoid can blow it, so knowing you can turn down your pressure when in doubt is a good thing. This is not necessary to upgrade, but I recommend you do because it makes it easier on yourself to adjust the pressure. Some good choices of LPRs are: Palmer MicroRock, Palmer Rock, WGP Tickler, Sonic, and KAPP Rhino are some good choices.

-Stock metal bolt can be used fine, but using an all delrin bolt is better because it reduces the amount of moving mass and will reduce kick substantially under high Rates Of Fire. Some good choices of delrin bolts are: WGP WorrBlade bolt w/ o-rings, WGP all delrin bolt, Eclipse D.A.R.T. Bolt, Supafly bolt etc. Basically, any delrin bolt is better to be used with an E-Cocker rather then a metal bolt.

-Stock hammer and lug can be used fine with E-Cockers but it's crucial that if you are using the stock hammer and lug, that you loctite down the lug! There is nothing worse then having your lug backing out when you're ripping on the field! If you don't want to deal with loctiting the lug, you can get a hammer with lock-down nylon set screws to hold the lug in place so it does not back itself out under high ROFs. Some hammers also come with nylon set screws for the cocking rod as well. Some good choices for these hammers are: Eclipse Hammer, WGP lock-down hammer, KAPP hammer.

-Stock springs will work fine, but a good spring combination can cut down on some of the kick under high ROFs and also give you better efficiency. Having the lightest main spring, and a heavy valve spring should do the trick! Some good choices of spring kits are: Nelson springs, Maddman springs, Shocktech springs, WGP VF-T springs.

-Stock inline regulator will work fine, but like the stock LPR, it's a pain the neck to adjust! When you're firing under high ROFs, you're gonna want an inline that's consistent and has a good recharge rate. Some good choices of inline regs are: WGP Ergo and Black Magic reg (These two regs, and the stock WGP inline reg have the exact same internals, but the Ergo and BM reg are externally adjustable.), Sidewinder, CP Reg, Palmer Stabilizer, Bob Long Torpedo, Mac Dev Gladiator.

-Loader/Hopper. Yes, I know this isn't an actual part of the marker itself but the loader is very very important! In a nut shell, the EBlade with the eye on, will shoot as fast as your loader can feed. So, for example, if you're using a Revy or a Reloader, you're gonna be capped around 12-13 bps. No more. Evolution II, around 17-19 bps etc. etc. ! So basically, choose the loader that's right for you and go from there! But of course if you want major speed, you will want to use a Halo B or Evo II !

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So basically, don't get intimidated by all of these after-market parts and think you need all of them to just make your E-Blade work! It's not necessary! Stock parts will work just fine, but as I said before, if you want optimal performance and speed, some upgrades are going to be needed!
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Last edited by Ryan314 : 05-18-2004 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:37 PM   #4
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Let's continue this FAQ, shall we?

Another huge FAQ is...

QUESTION: I just got my E-Blade installed, eye and everything and I want to make my E-Blade shoot super duper insanely fast! What are some good settings?!

ANSWER: FACTORY FAST + EYE ON !

I can not stress this enough. This is the most commonly asked question by new E-Blade owners. Your best bet is to set it at factory fast with the eye ON. With these settings on, your marker will shoot as fast as your loader will feed a ball into the breech. Simple as that. In fact, if it makes you feel any better, I use factory fast + eye ON settings .

So... you ask, "well, that's stupid! I want to suck every ounce of speed out of my E-Blade! How do I do that?!" Well, for all of you tinkerers out there, I will try my best to explain each of the E-Blade settings and how to set them right. But I strongly recommend if you are still fairly new with the E-Blade that you do not mess with the settings until you fully understand their function, meaning, USE FACTORY FAST + THE EYE ON IN THE MEANTIME!

----SETTING DEFINITION TAKEN STRAIGHT FROM THE ECLIPSE MANUAL----

Sear Solenoid On Time (SON) - The SON time is the amount of time for which the sear solenoid is energised. This time should be set as short as possible until the hammer is released on every pull reliably. 3-4 is the average SON time. This setting really doesn't need to be messed around with because it has absolutely no affect on the ROF.

Newb definition: When it drops the sear, when it fires the paintball.

Cocking Solenoid On Delay (CDEL) - This is the delay of time between the two solenoids being energised. This setting should be left at the factory fast setting of 3 unless you have a blowback problem. You want the lowest CDEL time without any blowback. Like I said before, leave this setting at 3 if you do not have any blowback.

Newb definition: Time between firing and recocking.

Cocking Solenoid On Time (CON) - Energising the cocking solenoid causes the ram to push back the back block, retracting the bolt and allowing a paintball to drop into the breech. The cocking solenoid time has to remain energised for all of this to happen, and that time is known as the CON. This setting should not be touched at all if you are using the eye because the eye overrides this setting and controls it. So basically, when the eye detects a ball in the breech, it will fire regardless.

Newb Definition: When the cocker recocks and loads another ball.

Cocking Solenoid Off Time (COFF) - After the cocking solenoid on time has expired, the cocking solenoid is de-energised causing the ram to pull forwards the back block, closing the bolt and cocking the marker. The amount of time that is allowed for the bolt to fully close is known as the COFF time. This is the one setting that you can mess around with. The factory preset is set at 28, but can be lowered depending on the speed of your ram. To set your COFF time, start by airing up your marker and putting a full hopper of paint on. Start at the factory preset of 28 and lower the COFF 2 at a time, shoot a string of paint, and repeat lowering the COFF by 2 until you start to see your paint dropping off. Once you see drop off, raise your COFF by 1-2. This is the lowest COFF time your ram can achieve. You can achieve lower COFF times with faster cycling rams and installing QEVs (Quick Exhaust Valves) to your ram.

Newb Definition: When the bolt is returned to closed position.

Cocking Solenoid Time-Out (CTO) - If no paintball is detected within a given time then the cocking solenoid will be disabled. This is known as the CTO. This setting does not need to be changed. It's factory set at 255 and has no affect on your Rate Of Fire.

Cycle Time = CDEL + CON + COFF

Max Rate Of Fire = 1000 / Cycle Time

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My final opinion: USE THE EYE! I can't stress this enough! The eye makes your life so much easier because it really does do the timing for you. Your best bet to a problem free operation is to use factory fast and the eye and lower your COFF properly like I discussed earlier. Once you have done that, I'm positive your E-Blade should treat you well! And remember- FACTORY FAST + EYE ON = WILL SHOOT AS FAST AS LOADER WILL FEED A BALL INTO THE BREECH! This is taken right out of the Eclipse E-Blade Manual "With the breech sensor enabled, it is not possible to calculate the maximum rate of fire as this will depend on how fast the paintballs are fed into the breech."

"IF YOU'RE EVER IN DOUBT, RESET BACK TO A FACTORY SETTING AND TRY AGAIN!"

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR E-BLADE!
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 03-26-2004 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:09 PM   #5
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E-blade Eye Setup Template

Taken off the manual.

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Old 03-04-2004, 04:18 PM   #6
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Setting up your E-blade trigger

Q: How come my e-blade trigger has "bounce" ?
A: There are three things that can cause trigger bounce.

1.Your TPUL and TREL settings may have been changed.

What you need to do is, go to the filter menu (pressing the red button inside your grip frame) and scroll down to find the TPUL and TREL setting. Change your TPUL to 10 and your TREL to 40 (e-blade manual says 35-40).

2. Your LPR is set too high.

Lower your LPR pressure. Keep in mind that the 5-way solenoid should not be receiving more than 90psi from the LPR.

3. The cocking mass is too heavy.

Eclipse recommends that you "reduce the mass of the bolt system". If your not using one already, try getting an aluminum/titanium pump arm and a delrin bolt/pull pin. As for your back block, look for some custom made back blocks out there.
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:25 PM   #7
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Basic Maintenance for an E-blade

Said this before, will say it again:

The better you take care of your autococker, the better it will take care of you.

Respect your cocker! Especially now that it has a $400 dollar upgrade! Any type of liquid (even humidity) can affect your e-blade board. Try to keep it dry at all times. Your solenoid is very fragile as well. Don't put over 90psi of pressure through it, or else you will regret it.

Basically this is what you should be doing every now and then (after one or two days of play).

Wipe down your solenoid manifold and e-blade frame with a solution of water and rubbing alcohol (50% each will do). Becareful not to get your board wet. Inspect all the wires and make sure no wire is damaged, pinched, etc. Run some oil through your cocker to get your solenoid properly oiled.

If you want, you can clean out the eye as well. Although unless you were having problems with your eye, I wouldnt worry too much about it. To clean the eye, remove the screw that holds the eye in place, and use a q-tip to remove any paint, dust, dirt, etc. Clean BOTH ends of the eye. Front and back.

To remove dirt off your board, do not attempt using a damp rag or tissue at any time. The best way to remove dirt or dust off your board is to use one of those aersol cans that blow dust off your keyboard. Follow instructions off the can. Some of these aersol cans use liquid nitrogen (which turns into gas, very much like co2) and if the can has been inverted, it may spray out liquid nitrogen on your board!
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Old 03-18-2004, 05:22 AM   #8
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it's about time this made it out into broad daylight. behold the beauty of the e-cocker faq!
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:55 AM   #9
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Question: what exactly are the differences betweent he E-Blade and the WorrBlade?

Answer: They both function and operate the same exact way... They've got the same exact boards, settings etc. The differences are, the WorrBlade has a large trigger guard, a double trigger, and a dovetail already milled onto the bottom of the frame. The WorrBlade also comes with a delrin bolt and lock down hammer. The E-Blade has a flat blade trigger, smaller trigger guard, no dovetail, and does not come with a delrin bolt and lock down hammer.
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Last edited by amzng_spyderman : 06-30-2004 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 03-18-2004, 12:42 PM   #10
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It is not as easy as just slapping the frame and solenoid on there like an e-blade or race frame but it can and has been done. The first E-cockers (Sandridges) used Angel frames and Richard Sandbak of www.fearfactorypb.com has also put Angel frames on cockers before as well...


PS - who ever said the Hyperframe was made by AGD, is wrong... They are made by Centerflag.
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Old 03-18-2004, 04:06 PM   #11
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Good thread. Just wanted to add that bounce can also be worked out by playing with your magnetic return as well as by raising the CDEL a little bit.
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Old 03-19-2004, 01:13 PM   #12
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posts regarding the hyperframe have been deleted. bottom line is, the hyperframe was never designed to work with autcockers, but the uprising frame was.
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:33 PM   #13
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great thread. now i know the diff between race gun and e-blade. but what is the frame used on Electro ANS cockers? Is it just another race gun or are there differences, because i have seen them sold as different items. if there is a difference, it seems like a good idea to add it to the FAQ. but if it's just another racegun, then i asked a dumb question and u guys can use all the rolly-eye smilies u want.
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Old 03-20-2004, 04:32 AM   #14
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ANS E-Frames are basically Race Frames, and the System X Xonix frame is like the E-Blade. Same internals, just different looks.
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Old 03-20-2004, 11:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by teufelhunden
ANS E-Frames are basically Race Frames, and the System X Xonix frame is like the E-Blade. Same internals, just different looks.
Please for the love of God never say the Sys X Xonic frame is like the E-Blade lol
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Old 03-20-2004, 11:35 AM   #16
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Well... um... it is
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Old 03-20-2004, 04:29 PM   #17
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how are you guys measuring the output of your lpr's to insure you don't go over 90 psi? (safe cap of eblade solenoid) or would it be best to just sweet spot it and leave it alone?
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Old 03-20-2004, 05:41 PM   #18
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You can get guages for your LPR to see the exact pressure. But generally, if you put it in Classic mode, and hold back the trigger until the bolt fully clears the breech by upping the LPR pressure, then you're all set. Just like you would on a mech cocker.
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Old 03-20-2004, 07:07 PM   #19
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Well my cocker is on its way to my house, and I'm trying to figure out everything before it gets here. I get the 1st two parts of timing, the bolt position and backblock position, but after that I am clueless to do because it is ebladed. So what should I do after I get the bolt and backblock position?

Thanks
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Old 03-20-2004, 08:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by can'tthink of1
Well my cocker is on its way to my house, and I'm trying to figure out everything before it gets here. I get the 1st two parts of timing, the bolt position and backblock position, but after that I am clueless to do because it is ebladed. So what should I do after I get the bolt and backblock position?

Thanks
Same as you would a mech cocker. Set the back block so its about a few papers width in between, and set the bolt to only a very small sliver showing down the feed tube when cocked with no air.
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