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Old 10-24-2001, 04:29 PM   #1
magicsly1
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Timing and Taking apart an autococker

This thread is to help all of you autococker owners out. This thread will not tell you how an autococker works. I might make a thread like that later. Lets start out with timing. Remember this thread is only to help you i'm not saying "hey go mess up your cocker." If you have no clue what you are doing than don't even mess with the timing or attempt taking your autococker apart.

Timing
There are two major parts when timing. First there is the timing rod. There is a peice at the end of the timing rod called the 3-way adapting collar/coupler . Rotate it counter-clockwise to screw it on the timing rod. The more you screw it on the shorter the pull is to function the 3 way. What you want to do is make the timing rod open the 3 way right after the sear is dropped and the lug is let go. To make a full autocoker trigger pull you want the lug flush with the bottom of the body. To look at this you must take off the trigger. You will see at the bottom of the body where the trigger was there is a slit where the sear catches the lug. The lug is the little thing inside of the slit at the bottom of the body of the cocker. Stick an allen wrench in the hole in the sight rail to adjust the lug. Clockwise to lower the lug and counter clockwise to make it go into the body. If you have a trigger job the lug might need to be farther in the body. You don't need it flush witht he body but this is a good place to start at. You want to make the lug shoot right at the beggining of the trigger pull. To make the fireing shorter just turn in counter-clockwise. If the sear is not catching it then it is too short and turn it clockwise. Now that you have the lug where you want it, go back to the timing rod. Put the trigger back on the body. Gas up your cocker and see if it works properly. If not then adjust the timing rod. Unscrew it to make the 3 way activate quicker and screw it on for it to take longer to activate. I shortened my trigger pull by putting the lug farther in the body and the timing rod longer. My trigger pull is about half of a stock. But i also have a hinge so do not attempt to do that w/out an adjustable trigger.

If you find that your cocker is haveing a good bit of blow back the 3 way is activating before the lug is let go, so adjust the timing rod. If you find that it isn't recocking right then go to the lug and screw it in.

There is one more thing. The back block. Make sure that it is far away enough that you can put a peice of paper between the body and the back block, but close enough that you can't put a peice of carboard in between the body and the back block

Now taking apart your cocker.

Taking apart your cocker

If you get a cocker you have to take it apart. I don't have any great post like eltwitcho but i do know how to take a cocker apart. It isn't hard at all. I'll e-mail you a pic that will help you on cleaning. It won't let me put it in the thread. Too big.
Keep the bolt oiled. Take out the bolt and oil it and run a squegee through the breech. To clean the rest of the gun. Note Do not do anything to the bottom part of the cocker if you do not know how to time it. First learn to time it. READ ABOVE FOR TIMING!!!

If you know how to time. First take off the trigger. Then take off the reg. Then take off the timing rod. Now take out the bolt and cocking rod. Now unscrew the velocity adjuster until it is out of the gun. Now put an allen wrench in the hole in the sight rail until you get into the lug. Look at the bottom of the hammer and you will see the in the little slit at the bottom of the gun. Unscrew the lug. Counter clockwise. Once its out far enough just let it slide out of the gun. Unscrew the front block by unscrewing the block screw. The only thing that should be left on the gun is the asa. The valve is still in but don't take it out w/out using a valve tool. Now that is all of the parts are out of the gun you can clean and oil them. Don't do anything to the pneumatics besides putting a drop of oil in the 3 way.

To put the gun back together just retrace your steps. It wasn't that hard now was it? Remember when you put everything back together to retime your gun.

Remember do not do this unless you know how to time your gun.

Hope this helped. All the pics i have are on this post. If anyone has any questions or anything aim me (magicsly) or feel free to e-mail me.Magicsly1@msn.com
And if you can resize the pic for me e-mail me.

I hope this answered a lot of your questions out there. If not ask. I'm full of answers and questions myself.

-magicsly-

P.S. thanks for your support Venom and Silent Knight thank you for the tips.
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Last edited by magicsly1 : 05-02-2002 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:01 PM   #2
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Kotowa resized it again so it doesn't looked stretched and its a little bigger. Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2001, 05:38 PM   #3
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Well i just got done helping someone time their BM online today. It took about 2 hours. Thanks to the help of online voice chat and cameras we accomplished timing it. Here is a list of problems i see people have with cockers (that deal with timing) and how to fix them.

The cocker recocking but not firing
If you find that your cocker is recocking but not firing and the marker is cocked when you pull the trigger, what is happening is the 3 way is venting and working before the sear has time to release the lug. Just unscrew the lug. Its that simple.

The cocker is firing when the trigger is let go
If you find that your cocker is pulling the bolt back and when you let go of the trigger it fires. Look at the cocking rod. Notice it is not cocked. When the back block goes foward the lug is suppose to catch on the sear. Well it isn't. There are two solutions. A) Screw in the lug. But if you screw it in too far you will have a problem with the first problem i wrote up top. B) stretch out the sear spring and screw in the lug a little bit. This will make your trigger pull snappier and harder to pull but a small price to pay for a working cocker. You probably won't have a problem with the first problem listed above.

When trigger is tapped air vents out the front or back of the 3 way
No this is not suppose to happen. You want it to vent right after the valve is struck by the hammer. You don't want to hear the 3 way vent. The sound of the valve letting air out will cover up this noise when properly timed. Unscrew the lug so it is released earlier. If you have timed it so it does this but the sear is not catching the lug stretch the sear spring. But make sure the valve opens before the 3 way vents.


Cocker has heavy vibration when recocking
If this is happening too much air is going into the 3 way. For all you people who have a stock reg it is actually quite simple to adjust. Take the clamp off of the pneumatic reg with a flat head screw driver and your finger. Just push on it from the side and it will pop off. Now just pull off the hose. Now with your fingers unscrew the pneumatic reg. No tools necessary unless it is on really tight. Once you have unscrewed it look inside of it. You will see that with that same flat head you used to take off the clamp you can adjust the air flow. Just stick your flat head in there and gently screw it in a little bit (unless the vibration is really heavy then you might want to do it more). This will cut off some of the air flow to the 3 way. Now just screw the pneumatic reg back on and attach the hose and clamp and try it out. If you find the vibrations are still kinda bad, just do it again. With regs you can adjust from the outside i believe you unscrew it to cut off some air flow.

If you have any questions just e-mail me.

I hope this helped.
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Old 11-20-2001, 01:08 PM   #4
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Lightbulb What about trigger jobs??

do you have any info on how to do a trigger job????????????
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Old 11-21-2001, 08:19 AM   #5
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Trigger jobs with these newfangled non-slotted triggers are more about keeping it smooth than timing. As it comes from the factory, the 2k cockers have a nice pull. After you snag a new 3 way you'll end up retiming anyway though (if Worr Games stopped making the front pneumatics brass I bet 90% of people would keep them, they work so well).

Just use the timing guide up there, its pretty comprehensive. One thing I can suggest is to get a roller sear by Belsales. It is so amazingly cool. It takes most of the friction out of the trigger plate/sear contact. Butter. Good trigger / sear spring combination is important. What good is a light-azz trigger spring when your sear spring is too tense. "Yeah, my trigger pull is light... until the plate engages the sear... oh well." Light springs are overrated anyway. Grab one thats a bit more tense and let it grow on you and you'll be amazed how much better the overall feel of the trigger improves.
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Old 11-21-2001, 10:01 AM   #6
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About the trigger job question UnoriginalName said it pretty well. And you can make your trigger pull shorter. You can also make everything work at the front of the trigger pull or the back. Just takes a while and patience timing it to do this. Its not good to have your timing really close together, remember that. A little space is always good.

Another thing is that most of the triggers you can adjust only get rid of play. They don't really shorten it for you. Adjusting it will get rid of the play and then its up to you to time it right. I had my hinge trigger pull about 1.3 mm pull. I had it timed perfect. But i lengthened it up to about 2.2 mm because it was just a little too short. Just read the timing above and mess with your trigger a little bit and you will find that you can adjust it yourself.
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Old 11-28-2001, 06:47 PM   #7
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How an Autococker Works

I already made a post on timing and taking apart a cocker and now i'm going to post how they work for all of you that are wondering about it. This thread is good to read before reading my other thread.

Now there are two basic parts to a cocker. First you have the firing action. When you first pull the trigger the sear will let go of the lug. The lug is the thing on the hammer. When you are adjusting the timing you adjust the lug. But when you pull the trigger the sear inside of the trigger lets go of the lug and the hammer hits the pin valve. Now in normal guns when the striker or hammer hits the pin valve it releases air out the back to cock the gun but a cocker doesn't do this. When the valve pin is struck it just lets air out the wholes which lead to the bolt. The hole in the bottom of your bolt is the whole that the air travels through. If you have the bolt upside down it won't shoot because the hole isn't lined up with the valve. It also important to have your back block a certain distance away fromt he body so the bolts hole is lined up with the valve. You want it about paper thin away from the body. But not too close or too far so that you can fit a peice of cardboard in it.

Let me say this again. The firing part of the cocker is just the sear letting go of the lug and the hammer hitting the valve pin opening the valve letting air into the bolt firing the gun. Now if you fire the gun then it needs to recock. Thats where the pneumatics come in to play.

After the gun fires the timing rod will be pulled (with sliding triggers) or pushed (pivot triggers) so that the 3 way will reverse letting air into the ram pushing it back causeing the back block to move back. I say reverse because when the gun is gased up and just sitting there the 3 way is open just the other way so the back block is sucked to the gun. The air is keeping pressure on one side of ram keeping it back. When you pull the trigger the 3 way operates like a valve. Now when the timing rod moves it moves the o-rings inside from blocking some of the 3 holes in the 3 way to others so the air reverses and it pushes the pump arm back pushing the back block back. Notice if you hold down the trigger the back block stays back. This is because there is air running into the ram still. It doesn't go forward until you reverse the air flow in the 3 way.

Now when you let go of the trigger the 3 way reverses the air so it pushes it forward. Now the sear is in place alos because you let go of the trigger. The cocking rod is connected to the hammer and the hammer has the lug in it. So when the back block pulls the cocking rod back its pulling the hammer back and the lug is now behind the sear. So when the trigger is let go the sear catches the lug and the process is started over again.

I have a diagram of this action in my Timing and Taking Apart an Autococker.

If any questions plz e-mial me. I'm always glad to help. DasBaldDog is of great assistance for help also. Just pm one of us and we will be glad to help

magicsly1@msn.com
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Old 11-29-2001, 04:46 PM   #8
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Hey, magicsly1: Just outta curiosity, how do you measure your trigger pull? You mentioned milimetes...
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Old 11-30-2001, 12:03 PM   #9
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With a ruler. I just lengthened it up some more to about 3 mm maybe. Not sure on this one. I don't have my ruller and no nitro to see how long it takes for it to fire and recock.
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Last edited by magicsly1 : 11-30-2001 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-05-2001, 08:46 PM   #10
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http://paintballravi.com/Articles/Au...ub.html#Timing
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Old 01-06-2002, 06:54 PM   #11
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Old 01-14-2002, 05:55 PM   #12
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problem not sure what it is

when i fire my gun the pneumatics will move the back block but the gun will always stay cocked. do you have any suggestions on what might be wrong?
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Old 01-14-2002, 06:17 PM   #13
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Check your lug length, and your timing rod length.

When you cock the gun without it being gassed up, slowly pull back the trigger while watching the timing rod in the trigger plate. When the gun fires, it should be halfway through the full pull. If it's longer, shorten your sear lug through the hole in the top of the marker with a 1/8" or 3mm allen wrench. If it's fine, then your timing rod needs to be longer.
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Old 01-16-2002, 03:47 AM   #14
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hey,thanx alot guys!! keep the good work up!
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Old 01-19-2002, 02:21 PM   #15
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My autococker keeps losing velocity, I will fire a couple shots and I can see the balls going slower, I think that the velocity adjustment disk is backing out, but I want to check.
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Old 01-22-2002, 10:36 AM   #16
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CA or CO2

Are you running comrpressed air(N2) or C02. C02 will start to shoot slower because it has to expand which takes longer than someone who's quick on teh trigger. But compressed air shouldn't, if it's still doing it and your using CA post again. I may have an idea, I've seen something like this before.

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Old 01-22-2002, 12:08 PM   #17
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I am using co2, but i have a remote coil and an expansion chamber, so that's not it, but I have another problem, my cocking rod has gotten stuck and I am unable to unscrew it from the gun to adjust the velocity, but I am going to try to find some lock-tite (blue or green) so that the knob won't come off, that is the problem, The knob on the back of the rod keeps coming off and I don't have the right allen wrench to push down the locking screw.
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Old 01-22-2002, 12:25 PM   #18
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Easy Fix

Blue locktite. NEVER USE RED RED=WELD Blue=can possibly be removed.

Your best bet is this:

This is how I did mine at least.

Get a small o-ring, like the ones used in the three. Way and put it on the cocking/timing rod. Then tighten the cocking rod adjustable piece until the gun is workingproperly (o-ring should be in front of the piece. Then take off the piece apply locktite and screw it back on till it reaches the o-ring It will be correctly timed and you can take full advantage of the locktite. This will also get rid of the slight ching sound when your guns cocks against that mettle as well because you got an o-ring there.

That is the way my gun is set up and it should work for you too. The blue locktite should hold and you should still be able to remove the timing rod for speed adjustments. The locking allens don't seem to do crap, but once you fix it like this it will stay there. Also I reccomend the Husky allen wrench sets(the ones with balled ends so you can get angles) They'll take apart your cocker in 1 minute or less if you know which ones to use and it has every one you'll ever need for around $30.00

Best of Luck,
Chris (Rascal)
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Old 01-22-2002, 01:43 PM   #19
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There are easier ways to use loc tite for that kind of application. You only need to screw it in wet if you want an air tight seal. If you are just using it for the cocking knob or cocking rod, you can apply the loc tite, let it dry for 3 hours or so, then assemble. This way you can adjust it until it works, and you will still be able to adjust it after wards. It just coats the threads in a kind of sticky substance that holds until force is applied, kepping it steady, but allowing it to move when you want it to.
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Old 01-23-2002, 10:45 AM   #20
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Hey i dont know very much anything about cockers but in those animated pictures of the cockers it looks like when your not pulling the trigger the bolt always stays up and just air pushes the ball out by itself? i know im wrong but how does it really work?
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