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Old 03-29-2007, 10:21 AM   #1
iSHACKABUKU
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BT 4 Combat PLEASE READ

Hey Everyone

Im new to PB and loving it, got my first marker the BT-4 combat. I bought this marker because of its good reviews, affordable price and available upgrades not to mention the durability. Now after playing for a few weeks i am at a crossroad. I need help in deciding if this marker is worth upgrading to an E-trigger + E- hopper to get it up to speed, which will cost quite a bit or leave the marker as it is and invest in something faster, lighter basically a totall different marker which i would rather not do since i already have this one My question is, will this marker give me the performance i want or is my money better spent on a totally different marker. Im not made of money so your feedback is greatly appreciated!
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:58 AM   #2
Lenny17
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My question is this: why do you want more speed? Are you finding that you can't do what you need to do, or do you just want to shoot faster?

Personally, I don't find rate of fire to be such a big deal. Accuracy is much more important in my book. Sure, 'fill the air with paint' can be a valid tactic, but i don't want to spend that much in paint to play, so I would rather make each shot count. For that, I would recommend a new barrel, or better yet, a barrel kit.

But a lot of that also depends on your style of play. I tend to stick to short bursts, very rarely do I just let the paint fly. So the 6-8bps of my mech US-5 is more than plenty.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:17 AM   #3
iSHACKABUKU
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im not concerned in going auto really, would be fun the odd time. I find my gun starts to really suck if i start using quick bursts. I figure this could be due to the hopper not keeping up? I also find my accuracy sucks which COULD be due to the quality of paint? I got a new barrel, smart parts linear 14" and it doesnt seem to like the cheap field paint that much so im a bit frusterated. Basically is this gun worth modding, whatever those mods may be?
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSHACKABUKU View Post
im not concerned in going auto really, would be fun the odd time. I find my gun starts to really suck if i start using quick bursts. I figure this could be due to the hopper not keeping up? I also find my accuracy sucks which COULD be due to the quality of paint? I got a new barrel, smart parts linear 14" and it doesnt seem to like the cheap field paint that much so im a bit frusterated. Basically is this gun worth modding, whatever those mods may be?
In a word, yes.

The BT series, in addition to having it's own mods, takes A-5 barrel mods and 98C internal mods and stocks.

And could you be more specific about your gun really starting to suck? What does it do?
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:48 PM   #5
Lenny17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSHACKABUKU View Post
im not concerned in going auto really, would be fun the odd time. I find my gun starts to really suck if i start using quick bursts. I figure this could be due to the hopper not keeping up? I also find my accuracy sucks which COULD be due to the quality of paint? I got a new barrel, smart parts linear 14" and it doesnt seem to like the cheap field paint that much so im a bit frusterated. Basically is this gun worth modding, whatever those mods may be?
Your hopper could be the problem, but my first thought is gas system - are you using CO2? If so, quick firing can cause a drop in pressure or freeze up, and those are both bad things. I would consider adding a Palmer's stabilizer, or better yet switch to HPA. Either of these would give you a more consistent air supply, which in turn gives you more consistent results.

Quality of paint could also be an issue. If it is out of round it will not fly straight, no matter what type of marker you are using. It is also possible that your barrel is too big (or small) in diameter for your paint. A single paintball should be snug in the barrel, and should blow out easily. If it doesn't fit right, you could lose efficiency and accuracy.

Personally, I think the BT-4 is worth some modding. It will never be a tournament grade speedballer's wet dream, but there is no reason that it can't be a reliable and accurate marker for you. The BT-4 is a good beginning, it just would benefit from some final touches.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny17 View Post
The BT-4 is a good beginning, it just would benefit from some final touches.
The BT-4 combat is the beginning. The BT-4 Iron Horse is the end.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:37 AM   #7
iSHACKABUKU
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lol thanks guys, sorry if i did not provide enough info but im a newb! When i said starting to suck i mean 1 its not all that accurate at times! when taking semi long shots indoors they like to hook and drop, yes i use CO2. I also upgraded to a Smart parts 14 inch linear rifle barrel. Also sometimes i will dry shoot! if the gun is on a weird angle or i fire too fast and i dont generally fire all that fast. My next upgrade to try and improve some of these issues i think will be an electronic hopper. Im considered switch to AIR as well.
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:47 AM   #8
Lenny17
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Dry firing certainly means that your hopper is feeding enough. Not surprising if you are at a weird angle, but if it doesn't feed fast enough when your gun is level, a new hopper might be in order. But, I don't know anything about motorized hoppers, so I won't give advice where I shouldn't.

As for CO2 vs. HPA, I am admittedly an HPA snob. Around here (Maryland), I could be playing in weather varying from 40 to 90 degrees, and CO2s pressure varies quite a bit over that range. I also didn't want to worry about shootdown, or the possibility of freezing my internals and blowing an o-ring or cup seal. While I understand that these problems are not all that common, it was still something I didn't want to worry about. I also realized that CO2 plus a palmers stabilizer is about the same price as a mid-range air tank, so it was actually cheaper for me to buy a cheap air tank. Granted, I am wishing I spent the money on a better tank, but that is a lesson learned for next time.

What kind of paint do you use? Have you tried different brands? Have you tried the 'barrel test'? It does still seem that some of you problems (the hooks and drops) could be a result of your paint, or your paint/barrel match. Check this link: http://www.ottersccustoms.com/barrels.html for some good information on barrels and paint.
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2003 ICD BKO w/ 45/4.5k, Ricochet Apache

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PCS US-5 Mech. w/ 48/3k, J&J Edge kit (10"), cyclone feed, JCS folding voodoo stock with RVA

Kingman Hammer w/ 13/3k, J&J Edge kit (14")

Projects in the Works:
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:21 AM   #9
iSHACKABUKU
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Thanks guys, the paint ive been using so far is what they have at my arena, they use stingers, which is an average paint based on the reviews. seems like crap to me
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSHACKABUKU View Post
Thanks guys, the paint ive been using so far is what they have at my arena, they use stingers, which is an average paint based on the reviews. seems like crap to me

I have had very good results with Stingers. But I have an Apex barrel....
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:30 PM   #11
bvdave
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well my recommendationj is first of all to get an archon hopper. it will feed faster then any mech bt can fire and it doesnt even need batteries. I own a bunch of bt markers and use an archon on ever one. have never met anyone who can fire fast enough to outshoot this hopper.

as for your paintballs veering off to the side. the Sp barrel you have is great so it shouldnt be that (however an upgrade to a kit shoudl help due to perfectly matching bore)

if you play inside i would say dont waste your mo0ney on HPA. i use co2 and only co2 all year round (even in the winter and I live in Canada) when I use HPA I cant even tell the difference save in winter. a BT-4 is designed to work on co2 and does it extremily well. get your tank a/s and that should help. however your gas source shouldnt have very much to do with your accuracy. thats more about bore match. if your indoors i beleive all indoor fields are required to cap fps at 250 instead of 300 due to insurance purposes. (when I got my insurance policy for insurance I was told everything had to chrono under 250 if indoors and 300 if outdoors but it may just be canada I dunno) but if its 250 in the US as well then your air source isnt causing the problem because evn tho co2 spikes (and not nearly as much indoors) it wont spike form 245 to 340. expecially if you get yourself an a/s. but co2 doesnt generally spike 100 fps and paintballs dont start doing funky things due to spikes until your well over 300 fps.

my advice first is get an archon loader. no extra weight and no batteries and will perform just as good as an electic (but you pay only about $12 for it)

second is think about a barrel kit. if you ONLY use stingers see if you can fidn a 1 peice that has a bore match for stingers. if not dont get a whole kit. for example get a freak jr barrel with a single insert that matches your stingers. then your set and good to go.

oh and third (but shoudl be second) get your co2 tank anti siphioned. then your set to go and you can use the money you save on HPA for your barrel kit.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:21 AM   #12
iSHACKABUKU
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Hey guys, an updated for anyone that may be interested. This weekend my local paintball store had a huge sale and i ended up picking up a E trigger for my bt-4 combat for a crazy cheap price. So i go home install it, expecting my hopper to totally flop since its a stock gravity hopper. Well at auto 10bps it had no problem, shot perfectly straight and didnt break any paint! After about 500 shots. I am very impressed with my gat now and surprised I will be looking into a new hopper so your suggestion is greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-14-2007, 08:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Evil Wayz said; 'The BT-4 combat is the beginning. The BT-4 Iron Horse is the end. '
The Iron Horse is just a bigger, heavier and more unwieldly Combat with an APEX barrel slapped on the end. They're the exact same gun, save that the Combat doesn't have $300 of useless crap on it. In a sense, the Combat is actually the better gun, since A; it doesnt have the awful APEX barrel, B; it creates a MUCH smaller and tighter profile, C; it's not even a third of the Horse's price, and D; you can -almost- snapshoot with it.

But, yeah; the BT-4 series is pretty good, as far as semiautomatic blowbacks go. Truth be told, I'm actually in the same boat as you - Debating whether to turn it E, or just go for an altogether lighter, faster, and more accurate speedball gun. I love my BT-4, but even the lowest-end EPs like Ions and PmRs will blow the BT and any other blowbacks (Tippmann, Kingman, etc) right out of the water. ...however, I really lack the funds to do either at this point.

I'd personally just tell you to get a pencil spring (pens usually dont work) and replace your stock trigger one with it. Finding one that fits is a little tricky, but it really helps performance, and costs less than a dollar. (Or is free if you have any mech pencils lying around.)
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Old 04-14-2007, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffinstuffer View Post
The Iron Horse is just a bigger, heavier and more unwieldly Combat with an APEX barrel slapped on the end. They're the exact same gun, save that the Combat doesn't have $300 of useless crap on it. In a sense, the Combat is actually the better gun, since A; it doesnt have the awful APEX barrel, B; it creates a MUCH smaller and tighter profile, C; it's not even a third of the Horse's price, and D; you can -almost- snapshoot with it.
)
*glares* He insults our precioussssssss! We hates him!

Seriously, It's only unwieldy if you aren't used to it. And yes, it is bigger, and heavier, which helps cut down on the recoil inherent in a blowback marker. In all honesty the lighter a paintball marker is for me the less accurate I am. I need weight and a stock, because I'm used to real "black" rifles.

And most of the people who say Apex barrels are awful have either A) never used one or B) didn't know how to use their's properly. IF you are speaking about the Barrel proper, then yes, its kind of a crap barrel, which is why a lot of people replace it with the barrel of their choice. The TIP however is exemplary which is why people bother to mod it to their barrels in the first place.

And I got mine for 200 bucks, so it was pretty good deal. So I got that "useless crap" bipod, Picatinny rail fore grip with metal grip pretty much for free. And I use all of that so at least for me it wasn't useless. I basically got the iron horse for a hair less than an Assault.

And I can snap shoot with my Iron Horse. It's not any different from snap shooting with an M16, and they weigh about the same. ti's just a matter of getting used to it.

If you argument is that it's complete garbage on the speedball field, you are 100% right. But it wasn't intended for the speedball field, it was intended to have an e-trigger on it and be used in a support/ suppressive fire role in woodsball and scenario games. Which si why the newest version comes with a designed by Halo rip Clip hopper and the E-trigger standard.
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I am the Wolf.
You are naught but Sheep before me."
Semper Fidelis
La Illaha Illa Shaitan
"Marines die. That's what we are here for. But the Marine Corps will live forever."

Last edited by Evil_Wayz : 04-14-2007 at 08:55 AM. Reason: dagum spelling errors
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Old 04-28-2007, 06:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
But it wasn't intended for the speedball field,
..Good point.

But why on earth would you need anything other than a semiautomatic in woodsball? (Well, I've used my friend's Egripped A5 in a recball match.. It wasn't my paint or air, so it -was- a crapload of fun, I must admit..)

Since you're of militarily background (or at least knowledgable in US Army firearms, at any rate,) I'm going to assume you're aware of the 'Three Fs' of infantry assault.. While they're more than effective in real-life scenarios, in paintball, the rules have to be slightly altered, which makes me question the effectiveness of 'support' roles..

'Find Em' - Not a huge concern - save for those crazy 200 v 200 matches, you're (almost) always going to know the general area in which your enemies are - even in most woodsball matches.

'Fix Em' - Now that you've found your enemy, you obviously have to keep them there.. In real life, it's a simple matter of lobbing a few rounds their way.. In paintball, things are a little different, though, aren't they? Paintballs are about as accurate as Canadian weather reports, and on top of that, any player worth their mettle isn't going to cower in fear of a welt or two. (or three, four, fifteen, etc.) While covering fire -is- integral for safe forward movement and completion of the third and final 'F' in war, it's neither as important, or even as -safe- in paintball.. The fixed party will immediately know whats up the moment they realize there's a million shots headed their way - In war, there's not much that can be done, but in paintball, there's no such threat of the reaper's scythe - If co2 and stock-barreled blowbacks are involved, there's not even a huge chance of them being taken out - They're still behind cover, and the attacking element is both without it and well within firing range.. I personally find it's better to move without firing at all, or just sporadically as I near the unfortunate to-be-bunkeree.

Flank Em - Yeah, this is more or less the same. Head-on attacks are stupid (though sometimes, that in itself is an advantage). But still, since paintballs are the munitions of the day, one has to get a -lot- closer to effectively flank an enemy. As such, I'd rather have something tight and light in order to make effective use of the chronically scarce cover found wherever the trickiest enemies happen to be hiding.. <_< (That's really always the case, isnt it? Maybe it's just me and my nonexistant luck.)

What else did you bring up.. APEX barrels? I've played with and against one on several occassions, and, in hindsight, perhaps because of the player, I was far less than impressed. I was not, however, aware that the tips were removable.. Interesting.. but still, slowing down an already sluggish projectile (and giving it the ..questionable.. properties of the Magnus effect,) is not something I'd like to be doing, after seeing it in the field. Once I realized that I was more or less invulnerable to my unfortunate adversary's fire, I just stood up and laid into him. (Not in a sexual sense. ¬__¬)

The rest, I suppose, is more or less personal preferance. I -cannot- comfortably fire from the prone position. I found it awkward in the Reserves, I find it worse in paintball. As such, bipods just don't do it for me.

As for stocks, I think I've already mentioned that I like tight setups. Stocks are the antithesis of 'tight'.

And the Picatinnies? I walk in my shots, or get so close that I don't have to. Paintballs are just too innaccurate to use sights for. In my early days, I'd use my red dot scope (with the red dot actually deactivated, I have very sensative eyes,) to just encircle an enemy for my first few shots, then walk the rest in.. I eventually noticed that this gave me extremely narrow 'tunnelled' vision, prompted me to stay put (put those together, and you can guess what I often found myself victim to) and furthermore, the accuracy increase was so marginal that I eventually just said '**** it' and went back to walking them in.

Anyway. No disgrace to the Ben Tippmann family; Tippy knockoffs or not,(they're internally IDENTICAL to 98s, if you hadn't noticed,) they're undeniably great markers. Well, blowback markers - I wouldn't trade a Promaster for one, but still; They get the job done for recball.

Although, regrettably, I am actually selling mine to a friend so that I can afford a second Zeus G1+ pistol. (Told you I liked tight setups.) That's another argument altogether, actually.. But yeah; I can't say much for other pistols, but the Zeus series is just any generic blowback marker you can find, only smaller, lighter, and with a 10 round handicap. I bought one for proverbial 'sh1ts and giggles', but I soon discovered that it boasted the same accuracy, and *gasp* -range- as my BT.. Firing the same projectiles at the same velocities as a full-size marker, it's no real mystery why it went from trophy piece to primary marker. A paintball only needs 5.5'' of linear travel in order to accellerate and continue in a moderately straight trajectory - The Zeus boasts a 6'' barrel, need I go further into the science? I can (and perhaps, should, they're pretty funny,) show some videos of me destroying my friends in one on one duels at the local field, using only a single, black G1+.

And don't worry, I'm not going to be 'dual wielding', I just need the extra 10 shots handy. The Weaver stance they taught me in the Queen's York Rangers is a wonderful thing : D

Btw, 200 American? Wow. Obscenely low price. <_<
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:48 PM   #16
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Here's what I've learned...

If you're just using stock barrels, feeders, etc. then you should not expect much accuracy. There is a point after which not matter what you do to your gun, you will not get much more accuracy. Moreover, too many factors play into accuracy (consistent air pressure, paint-to-bore match, type of paint, etc). The first thing you should do is get a decent barrel. I recommend the J&J Ceramic (you can get it for about $30-$40); anything between 12" and 16" is good. Anything longer than 16" and you may be losing more air pushing your paint through your barrel. Longer barrels means your balls will travel slightly farther than most stock barrels (8"-10"); but again, keep in mind the law of diminishing returns.

After a getting a decent barrel, I'd recommend saving up for a high-pressure air (HPA) tank. The plus about HPA is that you can play in bad weather (extreme cold) so long as your paint can also withstand the same weather (paintballs get brittle in the cold). CO2 is often in liquid form (esp. at colder temperatures); in cold weather, you may end up with liquid CO2 in your power tube, freezing your internals. This is the reason for expansion chambers. Expansion chambers allow the CO2 more time to go from liquid phase to gas phase. But for the price of an expansion chamber and a 20oz CO2 tank, you could buy an HPA tank. However, if you only play during normal weather, or indoors, CO2 is fine. HPA is also more consistent; CO2 is not, so your shots will be less consistent as the CO2 level drops (regardless of weather).

If you still are not satisified with your marker's performance, you may want to check that the paint you use has a good match with your barrel. If you place a ball in your barrel and it rolls out, that's bad. On the other hand, if it's so tight in there that you cannot blow it out yourself, that's also bad. Bottom line -- use good paint, and make sure it matches the bore size of your barrel(s). The paint should not roll through your barrel, but you should be able to blow it out with your mouth.

Chopping is usually the result of pulling the trigger than your hopper can feed. So don't go out and buy triggers that increase your bps (balls per second) without taking into account the need for a good feed/hopper system.

By the way, I also use a BT-4. I bought mine new for $105; great bargain for a decent marker.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffinstuffer View Post
..Good point.

But why on earth would you need anything other than a semiautomatic in woodsball? (Well, I've used my friend's Egripped A5 in a recball match.. It wasn't my paint or air, so it -was- a crapload of fun, I must admit..)

Since you're of militarily background (or at least knowledgable in US Army firearms, at any rate,) I'm going to assume you're aware of the 'Three Fs' of infantry assault.. While they're more than effective in real-life scenarios, in paintball, the rules have to be slightly altered, which makes me question the effectiveness of 'support' roles..

'Find Em' - Not a huge concern - save for those crazy 200 v 200 matches, you're (almost) always going to know the general area in which your enemies are - even in most woodsball matches.

'Fix Em' - Now that you've found your enemy, you obviously have to keep them there.. In real life, it's a simple matter of lobbing a few rounds their way.. In paintball, things are a little different, though, aren't they? Paintballs are about as accurate as Canadian weather reports, and on top of that, any player worth their mettle isn't going to cower in fear of a welt or two. (or three, four, fifteen, etc.) While covering fire -is- integral for safe forward movement and completion of the third and final 'F' in war, it's neither as important, or even as -safe- in paintball.. The fixed party will immediately know whats up the moment they realize there's a million shots headed their way - In war, there's not much that can be done, but in paintball, there's no such threat of the reaper's scythe - If co2 and stock-barreled blowbacks are involved, there's not even a huge chance of them being taken out - They're still behind cover, and the attacking element is both without it and well within firing range.. I personally find it's better to move without firing at all, or just sporadically as I near the unfortunate to-be-bunkeree.

Flank Em - Yeah, this is more or less the same. Head-on attacks are stupid (though sometimes, that in itself is an advantage). But still, since paintballs are the munitions of the day, one has to get a -lot- closer to effectively flank an enemy. As such, I'd rather have something tight and light in order to make effective use of the chronically scarce cover found wherever the trickiest enemies happen to be hiding.. <_< (That's really always the case, isnt it? Maybe it's just me and my nonexistant luck.)

What else did you bring up.. APEX barrels? I've played with and against one on several occassions, and, in hindsight, perhaps because of the player, I was far less than impressed. I was not, however, aware that the tips were removable.. Interesting.. but still, slowing down an already sluggish projectile (and giving it the ..questionable.. properties of the Magnus effect,) is not something I'd like to be doing, after seeing it in the field. Once I realized that I was more or less invulnerable to my unfortunate adversary's fire, I just stood up and laid into him. (Not in a sexual sense. __)

The rest, I suppose, is more or less personal preferance. I -cannot- comfortably fire from the prone position. I found it awkward in the Reserves, I find it worse in paintball. As such, bipods just don't do it for me.

As for stocks, I think I've already mentioned that I like tight setups. Stocks are the antithesis of 'tight'.

And the Picatinnies? I walk in my shots, or get so close that I don't have to. Paintballs are just too innaccurate to use sights for. In my early days, I'd use my red dot scope (with the red dot actually deactivated, I have very sensative eyes,) to just encircle an enemy for my first few shots, then walk the rest in.. I eventually noticed that this gave me extremely narrow 'tunnelled' vision, prompted me to stay put (put those together, and you can guess what I often found myself victim to) and furthermore, the accuracy increase was so marginal that I eventually just said '**** it' and went back to walking them in.

Anyway. No disgrace to the Ben Tippmann family; Tippy knockoffs or not,(they're internally IDENTICAL to 98s, if you hadn't noticed,) they're undeniably great markers. Well, blowback markers - I wouldn't trade a Promaster for one, but still; They get the job done for recball.

Although, regrettably, I am actually selling mine to a friend so that I can afford a second Zeus G1+ pistol. (Told you I liked tight setups.) That's another argument altogether, actually.. But yeah; I can't say much for other pistols, but the Zeus series is just any generic blowback marker you can find, only smaller, lighter, and with a 10 round handicap. I bought one for proverbial 'sh1ts and giggles', but I soon discovered that it boasted the same accuracy, and *gasp* -range- as my BT.. Firing the same projectiles at the same velocities as a full-size marker, it's no real mystery why it went from trophy piece to primary marker. A paintball only needs 5.5'' of linear travel in order to accellerate and continue in a moderately straight trajectory - The Zeus boasts a 6'' barrel, need I go further into the science? I can (and perhaps, should, they're pretty funny,) show some videos of me destroying my friends in one on one duels at the local field, using only a single, black G1+.

And don't worry, I'm not going to be 'dual wielding', I just need the extra 10 shots handy. The Weaver stance they taught me in the Queen's York Rangers is a wonderful thing : D

Btw, 200 American? Wow. Obscenely low price. <_<
Sorry it took so long to respong, I was on a ban vacation.

Yes, obscene price, which was the only reason I bought it.

Here's the reasons why I prefer my "Horse:

With my crap bt barrel with my apex on it, on the low settings ( click 3 I believe) I can hit about 25 feet further than the rest of the folks on the field. We don't have very large fields where I play so this is an advantage.

I would assume that what you experienced was akin to handing a monkey Viking and assuming because the marker is awesome that so is the player. An apex barrel in the hands of someone that doesn't know how to use it and hasn't practiced will result in some of the funniest paintball trajectories imaginable. However, in experienced hands, the sensitivity of the e-trigger combined with the extra range is very useful for suppression, especially in king of the hill scenarios, where I can actually shoot thru the windows to keep them from popping up while my buddies flank.

I use my Picatinny rails. My hopper slides on the top rail, my sling rides sidesaddle on one, my handgrip/bipod combo is on the bottom, and for the rare occasion when i am ambushing people my Acog (non magnified) red dot is on yet another rail offset. Even with the inaccuracy of paintballs, I can still hit a man sized target on the first shot from 50-75 feet. Obviously hitting a head that pops up is less reliable.

As far as fixing position I am most effective at recon by fire, simply because of the distance. Usually i am called to marker target. I provide the base of fire while the guys with the little fast guns go in and take him out.

Machine gunners prefer firing from the prone position. You are less of a target and the gun gets heavy. Bipods are goooooood.

Incidentally I played three games of speedball in full camo with my big*** marker, and with the exception of getting hit off the break on the first game, I did rather well playing back.

However, that was because I don't have a hpa tank for my mag yet. In the future, I'm bringing the smaller marker, because frankly, doing a run - through with that Ironhorse was... taxing. And I'm old.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:54 AM   #18
Lenny17
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffinstuffer View Post
The Iron Horse is just a bigger, heavier and more unwieldly Combat with an APEX barrel slapped on the end. They're the exact same gun, save that the Combat doesn't have $300 of useless crap on it. In a sense, the Combat is actually the better gun, since A; it doesnt have the awful APEX barrel, B; it creates a MUCH smaller and tighter profile, C; it's not even a third of the Horse's price, and D; you can -almost- snapshoot with it.
One man's useless crap is another's treasure. Just because you don't like (or wouldn't use) all of the rails, sights and bi-pods doesn't mean they are useless crap.

Some of your points are valid (the Iron Horse is expensive), but woodsball and speedball are two different beasts. I've very successfully taken people out in woodsball slowly walking towards them, gun shouldered and laying fire. I wouldn't even try that in speedball.
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Markers:
2003 ICD BKO w/ 45/4.5k, Ricochet Apache

'98 r/f Autococker w/ 45/4.5k, J&J Edge kit (14"), Ricochet 2KX

PCS US-5 Mech. w/ 48/3k, J&J Edge kit (10"), cyclone feed, JCS folding voodoo stock with RVA

Kingman Hammer w/ 13/3k, J&J Edge kit (14")

Projects in the Works:
'99 r/f Autococker w/ 45/4.5k, J&J Edge kit (14"), and THE CYCLONE!!!
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