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Old 11-08-2003, 01:23 PM   #21
rdtmk
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the Maxflo isnt even that good... there are MUCH better regs for less money out there

the fact is that the Impy is a direct COPY of the Bushmaster except the retards at Spart Parts screwed it up by not using a low pressure regulator and forcing the components to run at pressures they are not meant to. everything about the Impy is meant to save money for Smart Parts.

you shouldnt even be able to compare a $250 gun to a $400 gun but the fact that you are is a tesiment to the abilites of the BKO...

you should be comparing the Impy to a Bushmaster 2K3 in which case there is no competition, as the Bushy is better in every single regard.
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Old 11-08-2003, 01:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdtmk
the Maxflo isnt even that good... there are MUCH better regs for less money out there

the fact is that the Impy is a direct COPY of the Bushmaster except the retards at Spart Parts screwed it up by not using a low pressure regulator and forcing the components to run at pressures they are not meant to. everything about the Impy is meant to save money for Smart Parts.

you shouldnt even be able to compare a $250 gun to a $400 gun but the fact that you are is a tesiment to the abilites of the BKO...

you should be comparing the Impy to a Bushmaster 2K3 in which case there is no competition, as the Bushy is better in every single regard.
Way to back that up with proof. Oh wait.....
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:19 PM   #23
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happy now?

this was posted by a guy who knows his stuff at PBnation. i know that most of you Impy owners will either:

a.) not believe any of it and go on THINKING you have a good gun

b.) just deny any of it even though everything stated is fact

here it is:

"The Vision Impulse most likely will come without an LPR. What this means is the solenoid, which was designed to operate under 100 PSI, has to operate at more like 180 PSI or more, because that's what the normal regulator runs at. TO make this possible and save money by not putting an LPR on, Smart Parts puts a stiffer spring in the solenoid so it won't leak at this higher pressure.

Now, because your air source for the solenoid is shared by your valve, when you fire quickly, your gun will not have enough air available to the solenoid, because it will all rush out the valve too quickly.

This causes the solenoid to not have enough air pressure to push the bolt back, closing the valve. So, you get your valve held open too long or your gun doesn't fully open and close the bolt correctly and you can chop. Also, it makes a sickly noise because it is starving for air.

That's not all. Because the pressure the ram and solenoid are running at is so high, and the poor design of the ram, the seals get partially wedged between the piston and ram cylinder wall by the air pressure from teh bolt sitting in its back position for a few minutes, then when you go to fire, it has to overcome this sticking or friction, which makes the ram move forward with less force, meaning the hammer hits the valve with less force. After the first shot, however, the seal is freed up and gets some lube on it and stuff, so the ram moves more freely. This is called FSDO or First Shot Dropoff. What it means is that if you haven't shot your gun for a few minutes, when you fire, the first shot will be much lower FPS than the rest of your shots. Makes it hard to snap-shoot! Also, did I mention running the ram at this high pressure makes the gun chop more easily because the bolt smacks the ball harder?

A similar thing happens with the solenoid too. Even if you put an LPR on to separate the air passages to the valve and solenoid, and you regulate the solenoid pressure down to around 70 PSI like it should be, the solenoid will not work properly at these lower, normal pressures, because it has been jury-rigged by Smart Parts to run at a higher pressure. So, by fixing the air starvation and consistency problem of having no LPR, you actually end up causing a new problem, the solenoid sticking! This causes... You guessed it, FSDO again! It is too hard for the lower pressure to move the piston in the solenoid since it has a heavier spring now.

Then you will eventually end up stripping some screw's threads because the Impulse bodies are made of softer aluminum than most guns. Doc Nickel calls it "velveeta grade aluminum". He is one of the best airsmiths out there and he jokes about this because he receives SO many impulses that need repair from stripped screws.

You will also notice the Impulse is larger, heavier, just as tall, longer, and wider than the Bushmaster.

The Impulse Vision has a reflective eye. This means it shines a light that has to bounce off the ball, reflect back into the eye so it can see it. Of course, the color, texture, shinyness, etc. of your paint effects how well light bounces off it, and whether the light gets diffused and such. So, some colors of paint will not be "seen" as well by this reflective eye. It is in general not a very reliable or consistent way to sense paint and you'll probably chop anyway with it.

The Bushmaster PDS is a MUCH more precise system. It is a break-beam eye, meaning the light shines from one side of the breech and is "seen" on the other side. The ball blocks the beam when it falls into the breech, which is how the gun knows there's a ball there. It doesn't matter one bit what color the paint or your bolt is, as long as your paint isn't CLEAR and see-through LOL, and there's no such paint on the market so... the PDS system is the best.

Bushmasters use a normal solenoid that runs in the pressure range it was designed for, not some jury-rigged cost cutting setup. They have separate high and low pressure regulators and no dorky-looking external hoses are required (like on the imp) to use an LPR. Bushmasters do not suffer from first-shot dropoff at all. Bushmasters are generally quieter, kick less, and more efficient. Kick less because the hammer on the Bushmaster is much smaller than the Impulse, more efficient probably because the air passages aren't HUGE and oversized like on the Impulse, so less gas is wasted due to premature expansion, and I'm not sure why they are quieter but they are. They sound nice, kind of a "thump thump" sound instead of the Impulse's "cough cough cough" sound.

You should also know that the Impulse was made as a direct copy of the Bushmaster, only Smart Parts did some things different to save themselves money so they would make more profit, like not having an LPR, using cheaper metal, etc.

I must also mention that by buying a Vision Impulse you are supporting a greedy company who is trying to take over the paintball industry by making other companies go out of business or pay them money. They are resorting to litigation to make money because they know they can't compete in the fair market. They are the biggest problem in the paintball world right now and I don't think you should help their cause by giving them more money." - Hellborecannon (PBnation.com)

Link to thread:
Impy vs. Bushy
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:55 PM   #24
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Re: happy now?

Quote:
Originally posted by rdtmk
this was posted by a guy who knows his stuff at PBnation. i know that most of you Impy owners will either:

a.) not believe any of it and go on THINKING you have a good gun

b.) just deny any of it even though everything stated is fact

I like how you can't even research for yourself. It's hearsay. There is still no proof, other then somebody took the time to write this. I could write a nice long post about how humans don't need oxygen to breathe, but it wouldn't make it true. I won't deny any of this, I will simply rebuke it with fact.

here it is:

"The Vision Impulse most likely will come without an LPR. What this means is the solenoid, which was designed to operate under 100 PSI, has to operate at more like 180 PSI or more, because that's what the normal regulator runs at. TO make this possible and save money by not putting an LPR on, Smart Parts puts a stiffer spring in the solenoid so it won't leak at this higher pressure.

]And???? It lowers cost. If people are serious about paintball they'll splurge for the 40$ LPR.

Now, because your air source for the solenoid is shared by your valve, when you fire quickly, your gun will not have enough air available to the solenoid, because it will all rush out the valve too quickly.

]Tapeworm or LPR solves this problem.

This causes the solenoid to not have enough air pressure to push the bolt back, closing the valve. So, you get your valve held open too long or your gun doesn't fully open and close the bolt correctly and you can chop. Also, it makes a sickly noise because it is starving for air.

]Again, tapeworm or LPR.

That's not all. Because the pressure the ram and solenoid are running at is so high, and the poor design of the ram, the seals get partially wedged between the piston and ram cylinder wall by the air pressure from teh bolt sitting in its back position for a few minutes, then when you go to fire, it has to overcome this sticking or friction, which makes the ram move forward with less force, meaning the hammer hits the valve with less force. After the first shot, however, the seal is freed up and gets some lube on it and stuff, so the ram moves more freely. This is called FSDO or First Shot Dropoff. What it means is that if you haven't shot your gun for a few minutes, when you fire, the first shot will be much lower FPS than the rest of your shots. Makes it hard to snap-shoot! Also, did I mention running the ram at this high pressure makes the gun chop more easily because the bolt smacks the ball harder?

]This actually makes me laugh. The older models had problems with that, but the main cause of first shot drop off has been shown to be voltage problems. Newer boards fixed this. That and people lube the ram shaft, causing a build up of dow 33. That's the users fault, not the guns. Also, if there was effort put into this writing, he would have found out that 180psi is a low bolt pressure, and chopping has nothing at all to do with how hard the bolt hits the ball. It is when the ball is pinched between the feed tube and bolt. Good try though. I also like his explaination using the word "stuff". Great technical term.

A similar thing happens with the solenoid too. Even if you put an LPR on to separate the air passages to the valve and solenoid, and you regulate the solenoid pressure down to around 70 PSI like it should be, the solenoid will not work properly at these lower, normal pressures, because it has been jury-rigged by Smart Parts to run at a higher pressure. So, by fixing the air starvation and consistency problem of having no LPR, you actually end up causing a new problem, the solenoid sticking! This causes... You guessed it, FSDO again! It is too hard for the lower pressure to move the piston in the solenoid since it has a heavier spring now.

]Survey say: BZZZZZZZZZ. Wrong answer. Fixed again.

Then you will eventually end up stripping some screw's threads because the Impulse bodies are made of softer aluminum than most guns. Doc Nickel calls it "velveeta grade aluminum". He is one of the best airsmiths out there and he jokes about this because he receives SO many impulses that need repair from stripped screws.

]Gotta love the hearsay.

You will also notice the Impulse is larger, heavier, just as tall, longer, and wider than the Bushmaster.

]You'll also notice how custom models are lighter, smaller and just as tall, if not shorter.

The Impulse Vision has a reflective eye. This means it shines a light that has to bounce off the ball, reflect back into the eye so it can see it. Of course, the color, texture, shinyness, etc. of your paint effects how well light bounces off it, and whether the light gets diffused and such. So, some colors of paint will not be "seen" as well by this reflective eye. It is in general not a very reliable or consistent way to sense paint and you'll probably chop anyway with it.

]Was he typing this up on his comadore 64? Outdated information 200 please, Alex.

The Bushmaster PDS is a MUCH more precise system. It is a break-beam eye, meaning the light shines from one side of the breech and is "seen" on the other side. The ball blocks the beam when it falls into the breech, which is how the gun knows there's a ball there. It doesn't matter one bit what color the paint or your bolt is, as long as your paint isn't CLEAR and see-through LOL, and there's no such paint on the market so... the PDS system is the best.

]Wow. A chunky two sided system. Why not just use the Equalizer board. It can identify that marbles are in the breech.

Bushmasters use a normal solenoid that runs in the pressure range it was designed for, not some jury-rigged cost cutting setup. They have separate high and low pressure regulators and no dorky-looking external hoses are required (like on the imp) to use an LPR. Bushmasters do not suffer from first-shot dropoff at all. Bushmasters are generally quieter, kick less, and more efficient. Kick less because the hammer on the Bushmaster is much smaller than the Impulse, more efficient probably because the air passages aren't HUGE and oversized like on the Impulse, so less gas is wasted due to premature expansion, and I'm not sure why they are quieter but they are. They sound nice, kind of a "thump thump" sound instead of the Impulse's "cough cough cough" sound.

]That's a nice opinion. Air passages are huge to allow for proper flow, a fact ICD must have looked over. I also like the use of probably. He has my vote for moron.

You should also know that the Impulse was made as a direct copy of the Bushmaster, only Smart Parts did some things different to save themselves money so they would make more profit, like not having an LPR, using cheaper metal, etc.

]SNAP dawg, those hezzi's be fo shizzi. That's how little I care.

I must also mention that by buying a Vision Impulse you are supporting a greedy company who is trying to take over the paintball industry by making other companies go out of business or pay them money. They are resorting to litigation to make money because they know they can't compete in the fair market. They are the biggest problem in the paintball world right now and I don't think you should help their cause by giving them more money." - Hellborecannon (PBnation.com)

]Damn. I don't want them to litigate me, how can I stop them? Should I put on my anti-litigory spray? I feel that paintballs costing a load of cash is paintballs biggest problem. That and tards who think that it will ruin paintball. So next time why don't you try playing the thinking game before you post. I call you about the cut list though, because I am sure you're on it. Thanks for trying out, maybe next year champ.

Link to thread:
Impy vs. Bushy
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Quote:
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:22 PM   #25
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Nice work rdtmk, except you forgot option c, people like No_DAMN_NAMES who fits into category a and b. The info is definately biased but it still prevents more factual of info than anyone else is giving and much of it is true.
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Old 11-09-2003, 08:55 AM   #26
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lol...no_DAMN_NAMES...

that was talking about stock guns...

sure, you can add the stuff to an Impy to make it as good as a Bushy but you have to pay for it.

also, where the hell did custom Impys come into this??? WTF?

i dont want to have to buy a LPR when i can get a gun for less money with it built in... nor do i want to buy a tapeworm when the other gun doesnt even need one to function properly.

Smart Parts did all those things to lower cost for THEMSELVES. you act like it lowered the cost for YOU...

well, if it had lowered the cost for YOU then why does the Impy cost so friggin much for what you are getting?!?
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Old 11-09-2003, 10:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by No_DAMN_NAMES
Wow. A chunky two sided system. Why not just use the Equalizer board. It can identify that marbles are in the breech.
It's definetly not chunky and even if it was, it saves you $130 from having to buy a brand new board
- Identify marbles?! wtf if you're stupid enough to put a freaken marble in your gun, then you deserve to buy an impulse you mindless sheep
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Old 11-09-2003, 07:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by F.O.D.

It's definetly not chunky and even if it was, it saves you $130 from having to buy a brand new board
- Identify marbles?! wtf if you're stupid enough to put a freaken marble in your gun, then you deserve to buy an impulse you mindless sheep
hahahaahahaha hahahahha ah ahahah hahah ha hahahahaa. You have to pay extra for the PDS and I was using marbles as a point. The single eye system is so good it can pick up a glass marble. You get it? The laughing was due to you calling me a mindless sheep. That was a good one, but next time you might want to think of something funny. Or smart. Or with a point.
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Old 11-10-2003, 05:12 AM   #29
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nobody said that the Vision eye system couldnt pick up marbles...

what was said is that it cant pickup dark paint (ie-BLACK) because dark colors absorb light...

science, big guy, science...
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Old 11-10-2003, 11:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdtmk
nobody said that the Vision eye system couldnt pick up marbles...

what was said is that it cant pickup dark paint (ie-BLACK) because dark colors absorb light...

science, big guy, science...
Light shines right through glass. Science.
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Old 11-10-2003, 12:12 PM   #31
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The point is not whether an eye can pick up marbles or not, it's whether reflective or break beam eyes are better, and clearly break beam eyes are better.

Quote:
Originally posted by No_DAMN_NAMES
Then you will eventually end up stripping some screw's threads because the Impulse bodies are made of softer aluminum than most guns. Doc Nickel calls it "velveeta grade aluminum". He is one of the best airsmiths out there and he jokes about this because he receives SO many impulses that need repair from stripped screws.

]Gotta love the hearsay.
I can see if you discredit something a random person said, but when you discredit Doc, you have just discredited yourself.
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Old 11-10-2003, 12:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by CoolT
I can see if you discredit something a random person said, but when you discredit Doc, you have just discredited yourself.
I never discredited him. I just said there is no real proof of him saying that.
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Old 11-10-2003, 02:03 PM   #33
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Yeah you're right the person probably made all that stuff up. Denial, always a tough stage.
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Old 11-10-2003, 03:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Yeah you're right the person probably made all that stuff up. Denial, always a tough stage.
Wow..... I am glad to see that you can't read.
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Old 11-10-2003, 05:33 PM   #35
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no damn names is getting owned.... i
You will also notice the Impulse is larger, heavier, just as tall, longer, and wider than the Bushmaster.

]You'll also notice how custom models are lighter, smaller and just as tall, if not shorter.
if your wanna get into cusotms, sure. thee average custom imp is over 700 dollars... also custom bushmasters awilll own any custom imp... the shocktech bushy is the...lightest...electro...pneumatic ever created, so be quiet. i garuntee, that if you go the world series, and ask any honest paintballler. what is better imp or bushy they wioill say bushy, if therye heads are not up their like yours is.
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:10 PM   #36
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Way... To... Be... Retarded... And... Not... Know... How... To... Use... Grammar...

You might want to finish grade school before you post.
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:22 PM   #37
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thast what you say when you were jsut BURNED!!!!!!
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:25 PM   #38
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look... no_DAMN_NAMES...

i really didnt want to start or continue an argument and i dont want to force you to believe that Bushmasters are better...

its just that you need to show respect to stuff that is equally as good (or better) then what you own... just because you own something does not make it the best.

both guns are great in there own right... especially since they are near darn identical.
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Old 11-11-2003, 11:28 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkowner2003
thast what you say when you were jsut BURNED!!!!!!
Right. You were trying the funny thing again. I hope you didn't hurt yourself with your horrible attempt.

As for the Bushmaster, they are great guns. I've used both the impulse and bushy before I bought my impulse. I just prefer the Impulse. I am sorry if any of my comments detracted from how the bushmaster is, but I like the impulse more.
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Old 11-11-2003, 01:24 PM   #40
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THATS IT


Ive had enough......

Someone once said arguing on the internet is like competing in special olympics, whether you win or lose, your still retarted


No_Damn_Names, youve proven your point that the guns are even, and done it pretty well defending the impulse by yourself.

Everyone else, no matter what is said, the guns are cheaper.

One is better stock, the other is better upgraded, but seriously, just buy what you want to each his own opinion...
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