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Old 02-07-2002, 02:49 PM   #41
Bunker_King
 
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Thanks guys.

I just want to thank Saiyan Warrior and High adjuctator for their articles. I was getting so sick of all these cocker owners saying "my gun has better range, it is more accurate, blah blah blah". Bunch of BS if you ask me. Same velocity, same paint, same barrel=same range. How could autococker A be more accurate than gun B if they are both using say a freak w/ the same insert and same exact paintball. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE!
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Old 02-13-2002, 02:45 PM   #42
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Saiyans post was all truth, I just dont think yall are smart enough to understand physics. If there was no porting the low pressure behind the ball would cause a suction on the back of the ball, almost pulling it backwards. So not only does porting let air out, but it lets it in to even out the pressure. I agree with him 100%. I'm also wondering, what barrel has the slickest internals?
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Old 02-17-2002, 03:54 PM   #43
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No porting is good for low pressure. For example, take the aka javelin barrel, it has no porting at all yet it is extremely good for low pressure, but extremely loud.
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Old 02-18-2002, 08:22 AM   #44
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Exclamation Somthing to consider

I belive the length of the barrel reguarless of porting or no porting wont improve range but it will improve accuracy. Simply look at real guns or rifles especailly the longer the barrel the better groupings you get. Take this to paintball imagine you have two boomsticks one that is 10" and one that is 18" why will one be more accurate then the other provided they are identical and they are no manufacturing defects. As long as they are identically straight the ball is guided down a straight path for longer so the ball has less of a chance to go off course. Well if you dont belive me try this. Take the barrel off your gun and shoot it then put it back on and shoot it if the ball is not guided it will not go straight.Yes i do know that the ball has no time to excelerate hence the theory works with smaller accelaration distances or (shorter barrel distances). Another way to test my theory which i have done is shoot a 6" barrel (shortest i could find) then the same barrel but at the other extreme 18" and test the accuracy at the same velocity. Yes you will have to crank up the pressure higher for the 18" but velocity is measured at the end of the barrel. You will definatly notice the longer barrel is more accurate and silent. It wont be a huge differnce but it will be noticable. The disadvantage of course is higher pressure so perhaps more ball breaks and your gun will eat more air also the obvious a longer barrel gets in your way more. Well i guarntee my theory works before you try to argue that i am wrong for whatever reason i ask you to go try my test with the 6 and 18" barrels.

mjkocker@attbi.com

P.S. these tests were done with a very nice cocker $2000 so lower end guns may not notice as much as a performance differnce.

I have played for 8 years i am on a amateur level A team im keeping anonomys for obvious reasons.

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Old 02-18-2002, 03:10 PM   #45
high adjucator
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haha first actualy think about what your saying b4 u say it ok?

now why would there be a suction behind the paintball?? there is about 400psi of pressure shooting it out the barrel!!!!

and a longer barrel will not yiled better accuracy. you ever noticed that any un with a brrel over 14 inches thats not a shotgun is rifled? and any smooothbore barrel will give less accuracy to a real gun...

a 6 inch barrel gets lets accuracy bcuz the air doesnt have enuff time to acelarate (i knwo i spelled it wrog) and the *pop* is MUCH greater. that pop wobbles the ball. see? try using a heavily ported 12 inch then using a lightly ported 18 inch. you WILL get better accuracy with the 12

small amounts or porting does help low pressure by letting air pressure lessen even more.

oh yeah.. and no barrel can improve range. only a heavier ball can do that
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Old 03-03-2002, 04:34 PM   #46
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18 inches of barrel - a waste?

Okay, I'm new to the board as of today. "Hello!" everyone!

I own an 18" Boom Stick; still unused. Saigon, would you then, based on all written about velocity, weight, etc., etc. that I have 6 inches of barrel robbing my balls of distance? Or, does that extra length have some play/benefit in accuracy? Eats more CO2?

I can still return my barrel for another (read: shorter) length. This is what has been eating at me since I came home with it last Friday and have yet to shoot anything through it.

I don't lob mass amounts of paint down range. I am more interested in distance with better accuracy.

If a ball only accelerates 8-12 inches, then is a 12-14 inch barrel the maximum anyone should ever consider? Why sell them them? Ugh! Decisions Decisions Decisions.

This is like walking down the darn cereal isle in a grocery store. So much to choose from.



Royally confused as to go shorter or not,
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Old 03-03-2002, 04:37 PM   #47
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haha yeah anything over a 12-14 inch is un necesary,
id trade it in if i were you. and no barrel EVER can give you more distance.
and they sell longer barrels because uneducated peopel buy them, or because it lok cool or w/e.


and that extra length needs to be compensatd for because it takes more air to get the ball down the barrel.
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Old 03-03-2002, 06:39 PM   #48
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The lengthy explanation at the beginning of this post makes sense. Yet, while that may be so, there ARE definite differences in the physics of particular barrel's which make them preferred as to their accuracy and/or range (flatter trajectory). Some barrels do shoot farther and/or others are more accurate.
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I've really enjoyed reading this post. I've certainly learned a lot from it; and as one of my first impressions of this forum - will be returning. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------


Yes, it does look like I will be exchanging my 18" Boom Stick in for a shorter one (another Boom? I don't know. Probably.). Two things though...

1. If longer barrels in rifles equate to more accuracy, then how is that lost concerning markers? Leaving rifling out of it, length plays a role. There are definate facts which can be applied to purchasing a barrel. The initial reading of velocity, weight, and so forth left me with the impression that all barrels are equal - but we know that, that is not so.

2.
- Tippman 98 Customs ship with an 8.5" barrel which has porting at 4 1/2 inches.
- My ' now temporary' Boom Stick is a whopping 18" with porting at 9.5". Another factor: the barrel widens slightly at about 7 inches.

When compared side by side, the Boom Stick did shoot better; ie. more accurate and with a flatter trajectory to reach the same distance as the stock Tippmann.

If paintballs accelerate to maximum speed within the first 8 to 12 inches of a barrel - then 12 inches of barrel should be truly available to provide this to occur. Factory Tippmann barrels rob us of important and necessary barrel length for a lighter marker with a shorter length and marketable appearance. This, as with any other marker, leaves room for 3rd party vendors to accessorize their product with better upgrades. Like software, it's a marketing round-robin where dependability on each other breeds business security.

So, the difference from where Tippmann stock barrels begin porting to where Boom Sticks widen their barrel appears to be where the added push happens; allowing pressure more time to affect velocity.


Hmmm.....
Is it going to be a 12" or 14" tomorrow? I still remain unsure at this point. I may go with a 14" which gives me 4" less to maneuver with, yet provides porting to quiet the pop. I need to check into it more thoroughly though. By going with a shorter barrel I don't want to lose those initial 7" tight inches like on the 18" Boom Stick. They are important.
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Old 03-04-2002, 10:50 AM   #49
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Length doesnt matter in 2 piece barrels like the boomstick. Only the first stage is touching the ball so if it was just the back or if you add a 20" tip it will shoot the same. The only thing the extra length will affect is how quite it is.
The 2 piece designs are a little more accurate according to Tom Kayes, but they loose a little bit of shots per fill from a one piece barrel. If you put a one piece barrel on there with minal porting you will see an increase of velocity. Ive been messing with different barrel lengths and with the CP 12" 1 piece barrel I get about 20 FPS over the CP 2 pice barrel.

Last edited by july_favre : 03-04-2002 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 03-07-2002, 05:44 PM   #50
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All i can say is, I'm happy the accuracy/range issue has been (sorta) laid to rest! Thanks to everyone for this article, i wish every paintball player could read it so people would stop making claims about range/accuracy that just are not true.
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Old 03-07-2002, 08:21 PM   #51
SnapDragon
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So, which gun shoots better again? *joke*



Thanks!
I dropped down and settled with a 14" Boom Stick.



Signed,
The new daddy - SnapDragon
My boy - Conner Elliot
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Old 03-14-2002, 06:49 AM   #52
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Cool

lol

u could have a gun that shoots the straightest ever and still suck at paintball, accuracy and distance aint everything u gotta have skill!
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Old 03-14-2002, 07:52 AM   #53
SnapDragon
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Skill?

Ah, yes - skill. I do suppose that does come in handy when slithering through the underbrush. I think I'll do okay out there. *grin*





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Old 03-14-2002, 05:34 PM   #54
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ok high adjucator looks like u never passed physics....When the ball moves foward very quickly air must fill in the area it was just in....All matter wanting to form an equiliberium of pressure...So the paintball has a little pull behind it, but since air can get through the feed this pull is normally not huge. You can do this by sticking a straw in water, putting ur thumb over the top and pulling up..... So when a barrel is vented it allows for air to be pulled from the outside in so there is less area needing to be filled therefore less suction
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Old 03-14-2002, 09:01 PM   #55
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Well time for me to throw in my 2 cents.

Well yea it would be true that if an object is moving at a rapid speed it would leave a slight void of air behind it.... but thats only true of the object is moving on its own momentum. However in paintball when in regaurds to paintballs moving out of you're barrel it is a bit different. A paintball is propelled forward by expanding gas escaping out of your barrel pushing the paintball itself forward. In a case such as this the object moving at a rapid speed does not leave a void behind it since its being pushed by air. In this case the ports on your barrel (those lil holes used to vent you're barrel) are not there to allow air to get in and fill the void behind your paintball, they are there to allow gas to escape out of them so that it won't be so harsh, and loud at the end of you're barrel. Yea this may probobly slightly affect you're shot velocity since the air or expanding gas (the balls propelant) is escaping out of your ports and lessening the ball's propelant, but no where enough to be noticable in play. This is the reason why ported barrels are not as loud as non-ported barrels, the more ports the more chance for gas to escape through them rather then out the end of the barrel, which ultimately makes the balls ejection less harsh, and less audiable, at a very miniscule sacriface of a few FPS. But again, not enough to be noticed in play.

Again... all that matters is that you can hit what you aim at. To be honest I doubt we all really care too much about the actual physics involved, so long as we can hit what we aim at. A barrel is a barrel, a gun is a gun, and a hit is a hit.
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Old 03-16-2002, 11:26 AM   #56
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With lower pressure guns, porting will make a large difference, I dont know about high pressured guns though. With a 2 piece with 5" of acceleration compared to a 1 piece with little porting will show a big difference. Im think a 1 piece with porting after 5 inches would have even less FPS than the 2 piece since the remaining 7" or so is slowing the ball down, thats just my theory though. I think I said before my cp 2 piece gets around 20 fps less than my cp 12" of the same bore size.
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Old 03-27-2002, 12:22 AM   #57
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Hopefully my post can help some peeps...

Factors that make barrels more or less accurate are as followed.
Honing
Finish
Length
Consistancy(as in , is the barrel the same size all the way through
BORE SIZE(big one)

Honing is one way the metal is smooth, honing and finish can be tired together, a good finish is smooth and clean, like most aftermarker barrels, ive always thought DYE had the best finishes along with J&J and smartparts.
I will compare these finishes under a microscope at some point and reveal the results so we can crown a company as the undesputed best finish.
You need a good finish and good honing so the ball and gas can travel undisturbed down the barrel, the ball should be able to notice anything wrong about the inside of the barrel.

Length is a big issue, as anything above 12 inch WILL slow the ball down as the post above stated, it may not hurt accuracy, but it CANT help it, and it will decrease the FPS from a 12" even if its only 1 or 2 feet a sec.
Consistancy is perfect on all good aftermarker barrels(i would hope) so that isnt a problem...

Bore size will probably be the biggest factor effecting accuracy in barrels today, people say to "just grab a freak" but that will not fix the problems all the time. Paint varies alot, paint advertsing a 689 bore size will not work "Perfect" with a 689 insert, why? because some balls will be 688,687,690,691 paintball manufacturing is no wheres near perfect nor will it be for along time. Also the 2nd part of the freak is a set bore size alot larger and the paintball will use its already obtained accuracy from the 4/5 inch insert to gain some speed in the larger speed chamber, the resistance from the barrel in this part is almost none existant, all its doing is getting pushed by the gas pretty much anyway, now the reason i never liked smartparts spiral porting is because it distributes uneven pressure on the ball, gas escapes from each hole, now some gas on one side will escape before gas on the other side will and visa versa, this will create a small spin on the ball and can throw it off a bit, usally not noticable but sometimes i can notice it on my freak... but it shoots awesome so i wont dis on it anymore.
Uselly more expensive barrels will have a smaller bore size, uselly more expensive paint will have a smaller bore size, uselly cheaper barrels have a bigger bore size, uselly cheaper paint has a bigger bore size.

the xcel, ceramic, teardrop and bigshot will shoot close to if not just as well as my boomstick or freak shooting normal paint like blaze or midnight, but my boomstick will rock your world shooting anarchy upheavel or marbalizer because its a smaller bore paint and so is my barrel..

And another reason boomsticks or all americans and cost so much is because they do use alot higher quality finishes, material and have better machining, also they are 2 piece barrels which are better.

I do own many barrels for many guns including, J&J ceramics, freaks, boomies, xcels, dye ss's, all americans, teardrops and one bigshot, the quality of finish goes up as the price goes up..
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Old 03-27-2002, 10:33 AM   #58
high adjucator
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2 piece barrels are not better unless they are like the boomstick which is welded together.
the reason being is the air escapes thru the threading and if the front half is not matched up perfectly can cause ball distorion.

the smartparts porting relaeses air on both sides of the ball evenly but it spins because the porting spins in one direction and the ball spins in the direction air is being released.

i did a test yesterday and my and all of my friends were able o shoot a 4 inch tree 150 feet away with my xcel and proball.
i find this akward because the proball bore is much to big for the excel but i get better velocity and accuracy than if i use the blaze paint that it fits. (ps this was done with a cocker)


i have a word about the "eleptical honing" of a palmers barrel. if the bore goes from tight to loose, doesnt that leave room for the ball to spin? also that means that the excess air escapes from the back of the ball to goto the loose section creating more resistance than already made.
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STUPIDITY SHOULD BE PAINFUL .

THE STUPID PEOPLE ARE BREDDING FASTER THAN THE REST OF US HEEEEEEEEELLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!
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Old 03-28-2002, 06:02 PM   #59
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so the most accurate setup would to by a barrel with a 689. bore and 12" legth and use marbs 688. bore and heavy and run you gun at 280 fps.
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:03 PM   #60
high adjucator
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the bore size makes no difference as long asyour paint fits it.. duh! running your gun at about 270-280 is perfect for fps
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Proud owner of team free ballers
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m98 with SET (short as electric) trigger and CFU (choice fire unit)
this gun is alll pnuematic.
sp teardrop

cocker 2001 with benchmark frame and exel barrel

STUPIDITY SHOULD BE PAINFUL .

THE STUPID PEOPLE ARE BREDDING FASTER THAN THE REST OF US HEEEEEEEEELLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!
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