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Old 01-14-2005, 09:09 PM   #1
rcxpaintball
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Scams and paintball...

“When an item is bought or sold be it online or offline. Both parties agree to the terms stated when a purchase is negotiated. Any breech in these terms stated, be it by the buyer or seller constitutes the grounds for fraud. Therefore if the proper information is provided stating the full negotiations and terms of the sale and the names/addresses/phone numbers of both parties involved. A full investigation and prosecution of the party(s) that were the instigator of this fraud, is both the moral and legal rights of the party(s) that were victim.”---FBI Mail Fraud Division

Scams and paintball...

This thread is not meant to point fingers or single out, but rather to inform and educate players on some of the scams around currently...This thread will constantly be updated with new scams and schemes that people are inventing and using. I can never keep up to date because the people who scam are inventing and changing their tactics constantly. However many scams remain the same over time. Keep in mind that I cannot predict what these new scams will be so I can only post the ones I know. Also remember that there are many variations.

“The Bait and Switch”

This scam is a classic; it tends to prey on the new people who are unfamiliar to the items being sold. There also are variations that I will mention a bit later on. This scam can be at times not a scam at all but just a very uninformed/ignorant person or even someone who was scammed themselves and just aren't aware of it

How it works: Usually it is an item that looks similar to a more expensive item. It usually goes that a pic of the more expensive item is posted for a low price. When a buyer sends money they send the “clone” or similar looking item to the buyer. Then they proceed to either break off all communication, or claim they were unaware.

Variation: A person sells the item with a pic of the “clone” or less expensive item and try's to pass it off to uninformed buyers and/or players that are new the sport.

Variation: The person planning to commit the scam goes to a field, usually a good distance from where they live. They look for players that are obviously new to the sport and do not know much about marker brands. And proceed to attempt to pass off the “clone” marker as a much higher quality and/or high end product. Many times they just are “leaving the sport and need to sell their gear” or “selling the item for a friend that doesn't know much about the sport”. Sadly many of these people that fall victim are just beginners that are uninformed.

Variation: A seller posts an item up for sale but without a picture. When the person that wishes to purchase the item sends money, the seller sends an item that is a “clone” or similar looking item.

How it can be avoided: Try to look at the past sales of the seller, contact the people s/he has done business with and see what their experience with the seller was like. Always get a name/address/phone number and call/contact the person to confirm that they are in fact who they say they are. But the safest way is to use an “escrow” or “neutral third party”.

“I will ship it out tomorrow”

How it works: Usually a buyer/seller says that they were “busy” and didn't ship the item out, and will try the next day. This stalling goes on for a while or the buyer/seller just stops all communication altogether. Keep in mind that at times even the best of us are too busy to run to the post office/UPS/Fedex/USPS to ship out an item. Most of the time it really is an honest buyer/seller that is just too busy to make it that day. So be patient and don't jump the gun.

Variation: During an item for item+money trade one party receives the item and does not ship out the item s/he said they would.

How it can be avoided: Try to look at the past sales of the seller, contact the people s/he has done business with and see what their experience with the seller was like. Always get a name/address/phone number and call/contact the person to confirm that they are in fact who they say they are. But the safest way is to use an “escrow” or “neutral third party”. As a retailer myself I make sure every package I send out is both insured and has either a tracking number or a signature required upon delivery.

“No pic available”

How it works: A seller puts an item up for sale but claims they don't have a digital camera and no pic is available, but the item is in great condition...but infact the item is either non-existent or not in the condition described.

Variation: The seller posts a picture of an item from a website or from another person to make the buyer think that they do infact have the marker that they claim to.

How it can be avoided: Try to look at the past sales of the seller, contact the people s/he has done business with and see what their experience with the seller was like. Always get a name/address/phone number and call/contact the person to confirm that they are in fact who they say they are. But the safest way is to use an “escrow” or “neutral third party”.

“I found it on eBay”

How it works: The person posts an item for sale that doesn't exist. They take your money and run.

Variation: The seller posts a picture of an item and a description. At the bottom or in some area in small text they say: “Auction is for a photo of the marker only”

Variation: The seller posts a picture of an item and a description. At the bottom or in some area of the description the state that the auction is for a website or an eBook were you can purchase the item for a reduced cost...this scam usually works in conjunction with a pyramid scheme or matrix...

How it can be avoided: Read the description carefully and make sure you do not overlook anything. Try to look at the past sales of the seller, contact the people s/he has done business with and see what their experience with the seller was like. Always get a name/address/phone number and call/contact the person to confirm that they are in fact who they say they are. But the safest way is to use an “escrow” or “neutral third party”.

“Pyramid/Matrixes”

How it works: Now first off not all of these sites are scams, although 75% of them are. Now allow me to explain...you usually see these sites advertising “An Angel For $300 DM4 For $200!” Now the catch you enter into a matrix and after five people have paid the “$***$” you receive the product. Now you are wondering what the catch is, it takes months if not years for this matrix to fill. Now you can enter in twice or even three times and have your name on the list three times, but still it takes a long time for the lists to cycle. Now that is the legit sites, let’s talk about the scam sites...these usually list in their rules/regulations that a matrix can be cleared at anytime for any reason. This is mostly ever site you see nowadays...Now while we are on the subject lets talk about how these sites are still in business...they are “selling” items at such a low price right? Right? Wrong.

5 People @ $300=$1500
1 Item @ $800=$800
Profit=$700

Most of the people who run these sites are retailers who have a wholesale license. They buy the product and sell it a VERY substantial profit on a practice that is ILLEGAL in 47 states. These sites should be avoided due to the fact that if a charge is filed against the person/s involved anyone that is listed in these “Matrixes” can be charged.

More can be found here...
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showt...highlight=Scam

"When good sellers go bad"

This is when a seller that by all rights should be honest and has a good reputation just decides to go bad. Or his/her e-mail/account password is "hacked" or found out by another party and they begin to pose as the true owner of the account. This is something that cannot be avoided. When buying online this is a chance you take. Always look for red flags such as "My old e-mail doesnt work so instead of the e-mail linked to my account please contact me at ****@hotmail.com"
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:13 PM   #2
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“The business”

How it works: A person/s purchases a domain name and forms a site that sells/fixes paintball gear and begins to advertise. As orders come in they do not fill or take care of their obligations. Now in the paintball business many real companies are close to going under and being forced to file for bankruptcy...If this is the case they are obligated to have a third party fill the orders they committed to.

How it can be avoided: Check around and find out about the business before you buy from them. A little research will save you allot of headaches...look at it this way...would you buy a new marker without researching it first? Or would you hand stranger money without knowing who they are?

“Yoink”

How it works: Now this isn't really a scam but it should still be mentioned. This is where a person leaves his/her gear unattended at a field and someone takes it....

How it can be avoided: Be smart, be safe, have someone you know and trust watch your gear while you walk away.

“The Bounce”

How it works: Now this is more of a scam done to legit businesses but at times it can be done to people as well. When you go to cash a check or money order its all taken care of right? Wrong...there is still time to cancel the check/MO before it is processed at the bank it was sent from.

How it can be avoided: Wait two weeks minimum (for a personal check) and one week minimum (for a money order) to clear before you send out an item to someone you are not familiar with. If it is a local sale with someone you are unfamiliar with ask to see their drivers license to insure that the info one the check/MO is correct and it really is the person that they say they are.

“Dumpster Dive”

How it works: This usually is a scam that happens at proshops or other businesses. A person goes in the trash and looks for a credit card negative, or the shredded remains of one. With this they can open new credit cards in your name or spend money without actually having your credit card.

Variation: An dishonest employee slips a extra transfer sheet in to make a copy of your information. Always make sure that there is only the primary and secondary (or transfer) sheet in. If there is more than two ask about it. If it sounds like a made up item ask to pay via some other method. In the next few days check with your bank to see if this item did in fact belong in with the primary and secondary sheets, if not report it.

How it can be avoided: In this day in age your proshop should have a digital credit card scanner that transmits the data via phone line, and prints out a reciete. Make sure that the proshop has a paper shredder that shreds in both a horizontal and vertical pattern to make the negative nearly impossible to piece together. A much more safe way is to pay with a check or cash at the proshop. Always make sure you know who you are dealing with.

“War Driving”

How it works: This isn't paintball related but it is more common than you think. One or more people drive around in a car with a laptop with wireless capability looking for a house or home/business that has a wireless Internet transmitter. They then check and see if it is unsecured or poorly protected. They then try to slip a virus/Trojan into your “network” and record any credit card or other information that might be sent around. They also may monitor what information you are sending/receiving. Or just surf the net using your Internet...it has many variations.

How it can be avoided: There isn't any real way to avoid it other than not being wireless. You should have several firewalls and always be safe about the content you are broadcasting. Check out g4techtv.com/other sources for more info.

“Paypal unverified”

How it works: A person uses a stolen credit card to open a paypal account and rack up massive fraudulent purchases.

How it can be avoided: Make sure that anyone who uses paypal with you has a verified account.

“By phone credit card scam”

Info provided/written by: Stephen CW

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information is worth reading. By understanding how the VISA & MasterCard Telephone Credit Card Scam works, you'll be better prepared to protect yourself. Thanks to Dr. Pat Cloney for passing this on. Those con artists get more creative every day.

My friend was called on Wednesday from "VISA", and I was called on Thursday from "MasterCard". The scam works like this:

Person calling says, "this is, and I'm calling from the Security and Fraud Department at VISA. My Badge number is 12460. Your card has been flagged for an unusual purchase pattern, and I'm calling to verify. This would be on your VISA card, which was issued by bank. Did you purchase an Anti-Telemarketing Device for $497.99 from a marketing company based in Arizona?"

When you say "No", the caller continues with, "Then we will be issuing a credit to your account. This is a company we have been watching and the charges range from $297 to $497, just under the $500 purchase pattern that flags most cards. Before your next statement, the credit will be sent to (gives you your address), is that correct?"

You say "yes". The caller continues... "I will be starting a Fraud investigation. If you have any questions, you should call the 1-800 number listed on the back of your card (1-800-VISA) and ask for Security. You will need to refer to this Control #" The caller then gives you a 6 digit number. "Do you need me to read it again?"

Here's the IMPORTANT part on how the scam works. The caller then says, "he needs to verify you are in possession of your card". He'll ask you to "turn your card over and look for some numbers. There are 7 numbers; the first 4 are your card number, the next 3 are the 'Security Numbers' that verify you are in possession of the card. These are the numbers you use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card. Read me the 3 numbers". After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he'll say, "That is correct. I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you have any other questions?" After you say No, the caller then Thanks you and states, "Don't hesitate to call back if you do", and hangs up.

You actually say very little, and they never ask for or tell you the card number. But after we were called on Wednesday, we called back within 20 minutes to ask a question. Are we glad we did! The REAL VISA Security Department told us it was a scam and in the last 15 minutes a new purchase of $497.99 was charged on our card.

Long story made short, we made a real fraud report and closed the VISA card, and they are reissuing us a new number. What the scammers wants is the 3-digit PIN number on the back of the card. Don't give it to them. Instead, tell them you'll call VISA or Master card direct. The real VISA told us that they will never ask for anything on the card, as they already know the information since they issued the card! If you give the scammers your 3 Digit PIN Number, you think you're receiving a credit. However, by the time you get your statement, you'll see charges for purchases you didn't make, and by then it's almost to late and/or harder to actually file a fraud report.

What makes this more remarkable is that on Thursday, I got a call from a "Jason Richardson of MasterCard" with a word-for-word repeat of the VISA scam. This time I didn't let him finish. I hung up! We filed a police report, as instructed by VISA. The police said they are taking several of these reports daily! They also urged us to tell everybody we know that this scam is happening.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:15 PM   #3
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“The Nigerian Scam”

Now this is a newer scam and frankly the best description of it was provided by Bill Mills of warpig.com it can be seen here:
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/arti...nigerian.shtml

“Buying a Pro used marker”

How it works: Now this was a thread I made a short while back and honestly it got much more response than I ever expected. You can see exactly what I mean when I say it can be classified as a scam. Please read the thread in its entirety here:
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showt...hreadid=281528

“Buying Wal-Fart paint”

How it works: Now this isn't really a scam but more so a dishonest practice done by “Wal-Fart” they do not post the age of paint and how long it has been in stock.
We have found (thru empty containers left at the field) that the paint from them tends to be 1-8 months old.

You better off buying fresh paint from your local proshop. If you let your paint sit around for a while a number of things can happen:

A) You get one giant paint "turd"
B) The shells get very weak/brittle
C) Swelling
D) Shell Decomp.

And asking the manager of the sports department isnt that helpful...Why? Wal-Fart orders in bulk and it arrives at their main warehouse. It is then divided and set in different areas for each Wal-Fart around the US (there are multiple warehouses around the us). Then when a Wal-Fart in your area gets low on something they call it in and the item is loaded onto a truck and shipped out to them.

So basically you dont know how long it has been sitting in the warehouse before it was shipped to your Wal-Fart.

Usually the date is on the:
A) Tag on box
B) Side/bottom of box
C) Stamped on bag inside box (higher-end paint)
D) Stamped on the order slip (when ordering direct from company. Large quantity's only)
E) In some rare cases on cheap paint it is stamped on the inside wall of the box.

I was scammed! What do I do?
A wonderful thread was made by DagNasty on what to do if scammed you can find it here:
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showt...highlight=Scam

Now if you have been scammed or know someone who is a scammer please DO NOT post in this thread, post it rather in the stolen equipment forum. This thread is reserved for people to post any scams that they know of so members can find out about them.
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Last edited by rcxpaintball : 01-14-2005 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:17 PM   #4
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Confessions of an online scammer.

Confessions of an online scammer.

Now before you go and get your panties in a twist about this and saying “RCX how could you!?” understand that this was a test I did a short time ago...No one was taken advantage of, everyone received their gear and/or respected items back and they were told about how easily they were taken advantage of. I did this test with a good friend of mine who was perfect for the role of the scammer, he is for a lack of a better phrase one dangerous ******* and if he weren't working as a security consultant I would be very afraid...So this is based from a month long scam we ran, his reports my words, it is meant to educate...Read and be amazed how easy it was....Confessions of an online scammer...

I am the last person you want to encounter online...I am a master of acting and I have honed my literary and vocal skills over the years to be able to assume many identities at the drop of a hat. I possess a detailed understanding of both criminal and judicial systems. I am confident and I am able to talk my way thru any situation that may arise....I have no problem with taking your money, your gear, and your confidence...I pray on the uninformed and ignorant. The weak, the ones who are to trusting...I am a scammer.

When RCX contacted me about running a few scams to see what we could get I jumped at the chance. I enjoy my work keeping up to date with scams and how they can be avoided but I love getting my hands dirty so-to speak, to go out and try my hand at it. Our object was to amass all the gear we could in a one-month time frame. The higher-end the better. I decided to do several very simple but effective scams, a mock stolen credit card, a fake business, a bad seller, and a just plain scam.

We began with a mock stolen credit card. I opened a paypal account with some info from a co-worker that agreed to help me out with this. After I used his info to open it, I transferred funds thru several sources to insure that it would be hard/if not impossible to trace it back to me. There are ways to transfer money from 25$ to 2500$ around via the internet and make it damn near impossible to find out where it came from, but the chances of it being noticed by people increase as you send a larger amount or if you make multiple transfers. There are two common points, where it came from and where it ends up. These can be avoided but I do not wish to explain how to launder money. So anyways I transferred a substantial amount of 2400$ to a paypal account and proceeded to spend away, buying both new and used gear from eBay users that were not suspecting of what was happening. Overall I amassed a nice number of markers and assorted items. I closed the paypal account and volia! I was a ghost...it would be nearly impossible to find me. All this could have been avoided if the sellers on eBay had made sure I was verified on paypal. When I informed all of the sellers of what had taken place I received a large amount of denial and mostly a general attitude of “Well I got paid so I am happy, It doesn't matter where the cash came from.” well we all know what could happen to them so I will spare you the explanation.

Next I tried to see how trusting people were. . First I went to the post office one town over and dropped 60$ for a PO box. I claimed that I forgot my ID and a piece of mail from a Co-worker was shown as ID instead...they were more than happy to open the PO box for me. Now for the phone number. I went online and using the same Co-workers credit card I purchased a cell phone with 1000 minutes for a low one time fee...Then for the scam, I identified a small but prominent forum site about paintball (not PBR/N). I joined and over the next few days I had friends join and list “positive feedback” for me. Then with RCX’s knowledge of paintball I posted responses to people with problems with their markers. I posed as an MT airsmith and offered to fix their gear for a low cost plus shipping and handling. Now most of the people declined to my help, but a few were intised and asked for my name and address/phone number. I sent them my PO box number and “fake” cell phone number. All but one agreed to send me their gear. Only two of the twelve actually called me, however they had stated that they wanted to call me before actually calling me. So I had asked for their number claiming that “I didn't answer any calls from an out of state number that showed on my caller ID”...So when they called I was ready and I chatted with them and basically steered them away from any questions about paintball and made them believe that I was infact a creditable person by throwing many impressive paintball terms that sounded very technical and official. For every call I used a different personality and tone of voice/accent just for laughs, a quick note on a piece of paper reminded me what “role” I had to play if they called back. It surprised me that after one call they were willing to send me their gear, without even asking to see a photo of my “MT certification”...Now I had used RCX’s PTI certificates to forge a false identity just incase but it proved unneeded. A week past and I had all of the markers. I handed them off to RCX and he worked his magic and had them fixed and packaged to be returned. We waited a while to see if anyone would call back. I closed the PO box after the last package came in so I would be annomus again. To my surprise only a few people e-mailed me at a hotmail account I had set up. I brushed off a few and answered the others. After two weeks I received only eight calls. Half I answered half I brushed off. Meanwhile on the forum website people began to communicate about me and if I was a scammer. No one seemed to notice that my account had been inactive ever sense I had sent out the last e-mail to the person. When the administrators of the site went to check my IP address they found that it was unavailable due to the fact that I had taken steps to make sure that it was unable to be traced. After two and a half weeks I called and informed all of the people of what was being done and that they had been scammed. Many of the people were just glad to get their gear back but others were really pissed at me and how I had taken advantage of them.

Finally I decided to go for the big score...I went and opened another PO box at a different post office in a different town under a different name (I used RCX’s real name for this one...) using the same method listed above. Then I went and purchased a domain name under RCX’s name and used his credit card that I “borrowed”...also I could have used the annomus paypal account if needed. Then I went online and bought another cell phone. Next I went and built a online proshop website, basically an online store. All of the prices I listed were roughly two dollars above wholesale pricing so they were very very low. Next I went and took some photos of RCX Paintball and used his proshop as photos of my “store”. I posted pictures of gear he had in stock and the photos of his proshop on the website. Next I went and found another paintball forum website (again not PBR/N) and promoted the heck out of my site and listed tons of gear in the for sale section. I received roughly 500 hits on the website and about 25 orders totaling about 5,000$ USD all paid with their credit card. RCX cashed in and ordered the items from NPS while I went on with my business...over the next week I received a whopping total of 32,000$ worth of orders. Unfortunately we were only making one-two dollars per order or about 1% of the money that was sent as payment. RCX had all of the orders ready and boxed and had all of the credit card numbers along with the PIN numbers. Now at this point if I were a scammer I would transfer the money to a different accounts and/or spend all the money I could and run for the border, but unfortunately RCX had no intention of moving to Bora Bora and leaving his business. So I had to make the calls and inform people that they were infact taken but would get their order in the mail soon. Many of the people had no clue what had happened and were well frankly blind sided. All were relieved but were in denial. Surprisingly none had noticed that my address on the website was a PO box or that my “customer service” line was in fact a cell phone.

So what did we learn from this? That people are ignorant, uninformed, and way to trusting. They should have looked closer and done a bit more research and seen all of the red flags that I had intencialy left up to see if they would have caught. If they had done some research the might have caught the “scam”. Fortunately I wasn't a real scammer and I wasn't out to steal their money. So next time you look to buy some gear do a bit of research on the person/s or website you are buying from...be smart, be safe, and remember that if something is too good to be true it probably is.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:02 PM   #5
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Awesome post, my friend. One thing though, it's spelled "Matrices," not "Matrixes." Or maybe I'm just silly and am mistaking it for something else. Either way, I'm very proud.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:10 PM   #6
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This should probably be stickied. Did you write that yourself?
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:19 PM   #7
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i look at the times and their 4 mins apart of posting so i guess you typed it up before hand anyway i don't have the time or knowing power to do things like that

i vote sticky
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:28 PM   #8
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As per 75% of my posts I write them up ahead of time. That way I minimize the chances of getting someone commenting in between the posts also it takes one to two days for me to type this (an few min. here a few min there...its on and off thru-out the day, I have other things to do and when I grab a spar min. I type up a bit.)

Ye I wrote all of this myself. I enjoy writing as you can tell...Though this was one big SOB it ended up being about 11pages (12pt font) in MS Word...

This thread is going to be stickied and/or moved come tomorrow.

I am glad you enjoyed it, but please keep it updated with any scams that you know of that were not listed. Please post in a semi-same format as I posted.

And Pants for the record I do not use spell check so I am sure there are many typos in my post.

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:30 PM   #9
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I was a victim of "bait and switch" cept I never ever got a pic. Now, I am just finally selling this POS imp I got when it was supposed to be totally tricked. I really hope people don't take advantage of you telling how to be a scammer, otherwise awesome post rxc.
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FAIL.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by can'tthink of1
I was a victim of "bait and switch" cept I never ever got a pic. Now, I am just finally selling this POS imp I got when it was supposed to be totally tricked. I really hope people don't take advantage of you telling how to be a scammer, otherwise awesome post rxc.
You run that risk when you educatied some people on how to avoid being scammed, and some learn about how to scam. It depends on the person reading it. I felt it was necessary to inform just how easy it was to scam to show that people need to learn to be more careful.

I was surprised at how much stuff we got. Over one month we had around 50,000$ worth of gear and close to 40,000$ in cash...not to mention the potential of the credit card info we had....like I said I thank god that he works as a security consultant, he really is one dangerous mo'fo.
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Old 01-15-2005, 12:34 AM   #11
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"Bulk Discount"

How it works: I saw this just recently and forgot to include it in the post above so heres how it goes...A person post up if anyone wants to have some modification done, usually annodizing, and if they want to send their marker in with the person who is making the offer to recieve a "bulk disount" after five or six markers are collected the person shuts off all communication.

How it can be avoided: As the other was listed...know the person you are dealoing with, use a third party to send and redisribute the markers. Do some research on it...Not all of these are scams but some are.

**** ask's whats the difference between escrow and a neutral third party?

They are in essence the same thing but....
Escrow: Is a neutral third party the recieves and redistributes the items...however unlike most neutral third parties they inspect the item to insure that it is as described....most escrow costs 10% of the items total cost+S&H
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EMO EEYORE

!!!NEED PAINTBALL GEAR FOR CHEAP CLICK THIS!!!

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Old 01-15-2005, 04:24 AM   #12
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Sticky It
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Old 01-15-2005, 05:52 AM   #13
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Another great guide you put up there RXC, I haven't read the entire thing yet but will do it soon.
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Old 01-15-2005, 06:27 AM   #14
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This is a MUST read! I'm gonna add to ways that I was almost scammed.

Paintball related- COD purchases. Seller OK's a COD by Money order sale. UPS/Pstal worker shows up at your door with your $1,000 marker. He asks you to sign the pad and he leaves. You open up the box to find a piece of metal in there. But you signed for it. Open up the box and verify any delivery before giveing signature (Proof of Delivery).

Second- Genral Paypal scam. I got an e-mail stating my acount was on hold and to please verify past sale info to reactivate. The Paypal e-mail had all the logo's and the right ISP info. Followed the link and signed in.

Next day transfers of $10, $464, and $793 were transferred by me. I was able to get a hold of Paypal and stop them, but luckily I wasn't on vacation as I was the previous week or they would not have been able to be stopped as easily.

To fix. Paypal will ALWAYS address you by your name, NOT Paypalm Customer. And never follow a link. Instead log into Paypal and fix anything directly from their site.

Great info rcxpaintball as always. I appreciate it, and I hope others do as well.
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Old 01-15-2005, 06:36 AM   #15
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Very informative. You definatly saved some peoples asses (and quite possibly my own somewhere down the line). Also (this one isn't too pb related, but can be) the owner of a nearby proshop told me about this one: A person works at a store as a cashier. This person must be very good with computers and elecronics to pull this off. They bring in a laptop and another thing that you use to slide the credit cards through (this one isn't attached to the stores system in any way). When you pay for something with a credit card, they slide it through the stores scanner thinger and then a second time through their own. The thing is, their own doesn't charge you, but it does transfer all of the information on the card (number, pin etc.) onto the laptop. Then they are able to put that information on to a different card (one they own), and their own card becomes yours. So the name on the outside of the card is the scammers, they will have ID to prove it, but if you check the numbers printed on the card and the ones used to make the purchase will not match. This happened locally where a cashier at the mall got the info, and then went to the pro shop and bought about $1800 in guns and gear, and it was on someone elses account.
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Old 01-15-2005, 07:23 AM   #16
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Heh, my bro lost a whole angel. The idiot said it was lost in the mail, and that the border patrol probably took it. Then he bait and switches my bro's angel on another deal with somebody else's excalibur. My bro thought he was trading his angel for an excalibur but the idiot just took it and got a better angel for it. My bro's angel is lost in never never land now. The police busted him, and confiscated the idiots stuff. But as for the angel, it got lost in the transactions of many people. It made him quit paintball.

My other bro, bought this autococker and got the delay tatic for 2 years until he was able to contact the doofus's dad. When he finally shipped it, it came with extras. Jerseys and armpads.
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Old 01-15-2005, 07:49 AM   #17
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Just a question. Were you guys actually breaking laws when you tried that expirament? It seems like you put a lot of time and money into that. Good post
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Old 01-15-2005, 09:37 AM   #18
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I vote for a Scammed forum, so the pieces of various posts don't appear in different sections. This is a huge problem in paintball, and sadly, many people who are scammed are so embarrased or bummed that they don't bother making it known what happen.

I applaud RCX in this little experiment, it proves that this can be done successfully and effectively by someone with less than honest motives.
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Old 01-15-2005, 09:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAMANTEthePBguy
Just a question. Were you guys actually breaking laws when you tried that expirament? It seems like you put a lot of time and money into that. Good post
When we "committed" the scams we didnt actually break any laws....I was sure to check in with my lawyer first, the last thing I want is to be sued.

As long as the person/s that were the "victims" received their gear and adequate compensation within a reasonable time frame it was legal...Thats why I only did this for a month. And for all the money I put into the research I made 90% of it back in sales..
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Old 01-15-2005, 04:07 PM   #20
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Have you guys seen this BS over on pBN where like late 04's with no feedback say they won't ship first? Its amazing, I myself have good feedback, and have people that can back me up, but some of these kids, its amazing. I was looking around seeing what I could trade my 2k2 timmy for, and I just couldn't find a reasonable trade where they would ship first, even thought they didn't have any feedback. Also, if you do get scammed, railz in the theft forum on pbn is very helpful, he helped one of pbr/pbn members get his vike and other stuff back when this guy scammed him.
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