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Old 08-16-2005, 11:47 PM   #1
Ebonclaw
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Ion troubleshooting 101 w/ "the Trick"

A quick diagnostic tool to save you time and frustration when dealing with leaks, AKA as "the trick" (you saw it here first kids!). "The trick" is pretty easy. Simply remove the trigger frame from the body as well as the board. Remove the battery, and proceed to screw your tank in with the gun partially dissassmbled. Now figure out where your leak is. Next, remove your tank. The reg will still hold pressure, so to release this pressure, simply loosen the front banjo (the one that screws into the trigger frame) and let the excess gas leak out. After a second or two, you'll hear a "fwoosh" out the back of the asa, this is normal. This is because there's not enough pressure left to keep the reg open, and so the rest exhausts out the ASA. Tighten the banjo again and go fix your problem.



What's it doing?

Not turning on? Check battery, replace with known good. Check membrane, make sure it isn't "stuck" to the button on the circuit board. If it still won't go, remove the board and hook up the battery and press the directly without the membrane. Still doesn't work? Board = dead.

Membrane light is solid red after switching on? Membrane is stuck to the circuit baord button. Peel back membrane, take a knife to it, and shave a little bit off of the membrane pad. Restick, repeat if necessary.

Gun chops, even with eyes on? Strip gun, check wiring harness to eyes. While you're at it, remove the eye circuit board and carefully clean the eyes. Still chopping? Try different paint, what you're using is probably crap. Still chopping? Eye board is likely defective, or wiring harness pins are bent.

Gun shoots and then stops, shoots and then stops, despite rapid trigger pulls? Your trigger is set too close to the circuit board, or the circuit board is improperly inserted. Readjust trigger and make sure board is seated properly.

Gun has erratic velocity? Needs a good strip, clean, and lube job. Check all o-rings thoroughly, including the reg o-rings particularly, as well as the bolt o-rings. Ensure you have a clean barrel and fresh battery. If it still ain't working, it's likely your reg or possibly your 'noid may be damaged.

Leaking from ASA? Inspect tank o-ring. If leak is continuing, check the quick disconnect macroline fitting. If it's leaking, remove the macroline, trim it with an Xacto knife or similar ever so slightly and replace. If leak persists, apply a drop or two of gold cup or PMI gun lube 9the kind you use for spyders) to the quickdisconnect fitting. This should seal it. If leak still persists, replace macroline fitting.

Leaking from reg? Remove reg, dissassemble, look for broken or damaged o-rings, make sure it's clean and free of grime. Check and make sure VA and reg threads are both undamaged and ensure that the mesh screen if present, is seated properly.
Leaking from above trigger frame? First and foremost use "the Trick." It can be several culprits. If the leak is coming from a banjo: Make sure the banjo is tightened. If it is, then disconnect the air tank. Untighten the front banjo (the only one that sits in the trigger frame) to degass the gun and relieve pressure so you can begin work. Remove the banjo fitting. It has a tiny tiny black o-ring underneath the threads where it screws into the swivel donut/firing chamber. Inspect this o-ring carefully. If it is damaged, find the SMALLEST black oring in your spare parts kit. It's not the EXACT same size, but it works. Inspect the hose that connects to said banjo. Replace if necessary. Examine the threads of the swivel donut or the firing chamber, whichever part the culprit threads into. Also inspect the banjo's threads. Ensure they are not damaged. Look for metal shavings of any kind. If there are some, you have crossthreaded your banjo and you will likely have to replace either the swivel donut (which is good, cuz it's cheap) or the firing chamber (not good, and not cheap). You may be able to use a bit of teflon tape to finish out the day, but sooner or later you will need a new part because sooner or later that teflon tape will give out. If the threads, the o-ring, the firing chamber/swivel donut, and the hose all check out, then there's a good chance the hose is not sealing inside the banjo properly. This can be remedied sometimes by merely swapping the rear banjo with the front one, as they are the exact same size. The middle banjo, however, is smaller, and cannot be swapped. Likely, it's the rear banjo anyway that's having the sealing problem. Try trimming the hose or replacing it. Trim it first, using a very very sharp knife. It may actually need to be a bit shorter. Remember you can make a hose shorter, but not longer, so take it slow and to test it out, simply refit the hose and banjo and gas the gun back up, using the remove the tank/loosen the front banjo trick to test as you go.

Gun leaks when it's assembled, but when I do the "Trick" nothing's wrong. Problem? Your Ion was cut in a way that when the gun is reassembled, tightening the grip frame to the gun puts pressure on the rear banjo, causing the hose to become unseated and seals improperly. This is usually a very minor yet very annopying leak that can lead to erratic velocity. 9 times out of 10 it can be solved by merely shortening the rear hose (the shortest one) by just a bit. Again, do this slowly, as you can always make the hose shorter, but not longer. You can also try swapping the banjo with the front one. This has been known to mysteriously eradicate the problem. I blame homeless 'cocker gnomes since no one really shoots them much anymore in tournies.

This should take care of most major Ion problems I've run into on these forums. If you've discovered any problems and solved them that aren't here, feel free to post them.
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:20 AM   #2
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Thank you Ebon, I'm sure I won't remember any of that when I wake up. Now I can hopefluuy fix all those damn leaks that pop up time to time.
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:15 PM   #3
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Great info!
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:24 PM   #4
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uhhh sticky?
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by HPfan123
uhhh sticky?
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:06 PM   #6
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all the ion owners will now bow before the unsurpassed wisdom of your master, the great Ebonclaw!
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:12 PM   #7
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Yes. Teh sticka!!
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Old 08-22-2005, 07:23 PM   #8
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I'd just like to add something I've had trouble with.

If your Ion starts to drop off very bad, to the point it won't shoot past 190 fps or to the point that the bolt doesn't cycle, but just makes a hissing noise, you should replace the battery before freaking out. It probably isn't a reg or noid problem, it's just the battery being low.
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by coolrazer
I'd just like to add something I've had trouble with.

If your Ion starts to drop off very bad, to the point it won't shoot past 190 fps or to the point that the bolt doesn't cycle, but just makes a hissing noise, you should replace the battery before freaking out. It probably isn't a reg or noid problem, it's just the battery being low.
smart guy right thar
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:57 PM   #10
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good job
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:33 PM   #11
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i got a question about "the trick." this leak sounds similar to the one i get sometimes but all i have to do is shoot once and it like seals itself or something. do i still need to cut the hose or switch banjos or is this a totally different problem?
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Old 09-09-2005, 11:12 PM   #12
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Try switching the banjos first, if that doesn't work, then try trimming a TINY length off the hose.
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Old 09-10-2005, 01:34 AM   #13
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AWSOME!!! u just saved me money on repairs. thank you SO MUCH. that i will make a note to remember it all.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:10 AM   #14
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Of course if your having too much trouble, you could just buy a Pirahna



At least we can get our Ions to recock...
-Ebon
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbadfish
Of course if your having too much trouble, you could just buy a Pirahna
Maintaining an Ion is easier than maintaining a blowback. Less parts (or less parts that need cleaning & lube).
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:34 AM   #16
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true, but a blowback is more tolerant of poor maintenance than a high end electropnuematic.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:42 AM   #17
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true, but a blowback is more tolerant of poor maintenance than a high end electropnuematic.
Oh yeah.

Shame on those kids.
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Old 10-31-2005, 12:02 PM   #18
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QEV leak

wisdom from ebon:

"Your problem is either coming from the part of the fitting where the QEV screws into the frame, or the part of the fitting where the hose goes into the QEV. If you can narrow it down to the hose, then usually trimming a tiny piece off the hose or perhaps replacing it willl usually do the trick. It's the result of the hose not seating properly inside the QEV.
If you narrow it down to the fitting/body part, then either the QEV is not on tight, not sealed correctly (teflon tape needs to be checked) or else there's a tiny tiny o-ring on the QEV that may be damaged."


thanks again for the help dude
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Old 11-04-2005, 11:58 PM   #19
Ebonclaw
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So i assume it's working again?
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This line is in remembrance of the 2001 terrorist attack on the United States of America, this day of September 11, 2001.
If you're tired of people putting lines in their sigs and trying to get you to put it in yours, don't put this in your sig.

"Accuracy by volume is still accuracy nonetheless."
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Old 11-05-2005, 09:22 PM   #20
phatrob37
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yes haha thanks for the help again, by the way check your pms.
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GUN SETUP
GEAR
crossfire stuby,black halo b w/rip

03 BKO(FOR SALE,pm for details)
04 Cocker (All Gloss Black)
e-blade,freak,cheak it uni mount,nexus ram with qev's,dye beaver tail,tickler reg,cp inline
soon:nexus dart,shocktech cocking rod,kapp a/c black pump arm

05 Lucky's Ion(All Dust Black)
Foehn,DYE UL,ndz feedneck,hybrid grind II,dye stickies,sythe trigger,
v2 frame,T-Board w/membrane,kila detents,cp inline, virtue on/off soon:high-light
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