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Old 03-08-2007, 10:02 AM   #1
Big Evil
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Switch to breakbeam eyes?

Out of curiosity, will the stock Dragun/Odyssey/Rex boards support breakbeam eyes?
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:38 PM   #2
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Not stock, no, but if you were to get a T-board, they support breakbeams.
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:01 AM   #3
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Just backing MTC up on this as a second opinion. Unfortunately no...the stock boards dont have the logic programmed into them to run a breakbeam system.
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:36 AM   #4
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Okay so blan B is to switch to a factory Wrath board. I'm told the boards are interchangeable. I'd lose the full auto but I can deal with that to get breakbeams. I like the T-Boards but I don't like the fact I'd lose the LCD. The reason I'm asking all this is because I'm converting an Imagine to EP using parts from a Rex. I've been doing Spimmy conversions for a while but this seems to be a more cost effective way. I could live with bounce-beam eyes if I always had access to bright shell paint, but unfortunately my local field is pretty random about what colors they have on hand and they are FPO.
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:18 AM   #5
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Ok, cool, knowing what you've got in mind helps some. BUT...the rex guns have three different frames that they use.
1 for their blowbacks
2 for their fasors (like the wrath)
errr...four actually. 2 for their cockers, but those arent relevant for this application.

So without knowing which frame is going onto your conversion, I'll just have to go with what whoever is telling you, that the wrath board is compatible. I'm not much up on which boards work with which of those frames anyway

I can tell you tho, that if you are using one of the frames that uses a clapper type solenoid (rather than an smc type), that it can use the electronics board off of a blowback. just plug the clapper's plug into the slot on the board that would run the sear noid. However....which boards will fit whichever frame your using...I have no idea.

I hear you tho, I really wish more aftermarket boards came with a lcd. led gets really confusing sometimes, especially with difficult boards like the t-board.

That sucks about the paint. Tho....I will say that for bouncebeams the eyes that these guns use are really good. the only problems that I've ever had on my dragun eyes was black, really dark green, and super shiney shelled paint. And the odyssey eyes are reputed to be better than the dragun ones were (tho I cant say that for a fact).

If somebody doesnt notice this thread that is really knowledgable on the rex/odyssey frames, I would prolly suggest to try the odyssey forums over on pbnation. I know of at least 4 very odyssey knowledgable fellows that habit that section of the boards over there.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:01 AM   #6
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Yeah I should register over there. I'm using mainly RX parts for this first build, including the frame since it bolts up to the Spyder bodies. I've been building a TON of guns using my own parts so I've got bodies laying around, and if I can make this work I'll start sourcing just the parts I need and build them on these Sbodies. They're all Spyder or Mongoose or the like and I've got several clients that want this conversion. I've been doing the Spimmys for people but the costs of used parts is to the point where they could just buy a used Timmy. Some just like the Spyder body though.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:36 AM   #7
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I hear you. I most definitely hear you. And I will say this, going with the clapper type noid for this type of conversion is definitely smarter, AND cheaper, than going with one for a smc type noid conversion. The clapper can use co2, where the smc doesnt handle it very well at all. the SMC noids also blow out very easily. You can find used Clappers much cheaper, as well...you can only find the SMC new (that I've seen) and those for about 45 bucks on airsoldier. they are also faster. The clapper is a very fast valve, where the SMC hits about 20 bps TOPS, and forget hitting that if you're ramping....it wont charge fast enough, and cause partial cycles.

I'm actually about to do this exact same thing on Dragun "Black Dragun" body and REX frame that I'm trading a guy some parts for....as a personal project.

Hrm, this is for customers. In a way, that kinda sucks. I was gonna say that it might be easier to use the spyder frame, and just mill it for the clapper noid, IF there's room. dunno if there is, I have only seen it done with the dragun TES frame, and that was a dremell job....so getting it machined out at a shop (if there's room in the spyder frame), would be added cost to the customer.
On the opposite side of the coin tho, I've also seen the t-1 (smc noided precurser to the RX and Wrath) use an Ego frame. But....that also required some modification. The way that the guy did it was to mill off a bit of the frame to make room for the hose connector to the ram cap. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1994114

However, some of that might have been avoided if he'd used an extension like the one at the very bottom of this page- http://www.vm68.com/store/fittings.html

I'm kinda starting to go braindead tho....(not enough sleep). MTC may have some additional ideas when she gets back on. She can be very creative, especially when it comes to mods, and is more knowlegable about some of the other guns/frames that might be compatible for a project like this. ones that might have lcd available.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:50 AM   #8
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Yeah I've got some customers that want this done. For the first one it's my personal marker. Once the RX shows up I can get a better idea of what's what. It's already been done by another guy on the Kingman forum and using all RX parts it's a direct drop in much like the One kit, except it's complete from the get go. But I don't know what type of noid it uses, just that it's compatable with CO2 - which I do A/S on all CO2 tanks I use and I use Palmer, WGP, or Bob Long regs for extra insurance.

Def. some good input, though. Thanks.
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:03 PM   #9
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Good choice of regs
You may also want to find out what kind of lpr's will fit the rex front block/va. I dunno about the odyssey front blocks, but the dragun t-1 front blocks had a proprietary threading on them. we had to use an adapter that was threaded for autococker lpr's to be able to put an aftermarket lpr on them.
However...we have a very strong hunch that the Trilogy threaded lpr's will work with the dragun front block. Will post back in a few days once the guy gets the part in and tests it.
another option was to put a timmy front block on them.

I should be getting my parts in for my conversion in, in about 2 1/2 weeks, tho I'll still need to get a front block (but I'll be using a rex frame with a t-1 valve, ram and cap). So I can probably be giving you more input on the parts and stuff then.

Yeah, spyder conversions have always been popular, and fun to do. And the REX bodies are really popular, so its not too hard to sell them off, if the bodies aren't wanted to be kept around.
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:56 PM   #10
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Timmy front blocks/lprs are the simplest to use for converstions. There's no need for an adapter, and they look better.

A wrath solenoid is more expensive than a traditional dragun style humphrey solenoid. The humphrey is 47 dollars here: http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-b...Code=SOLENOIDS, while the wrath clapper/valve (have to be bought separately), are over $50, if I'm not mistaken.
dragun noid:

wrath:
http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-b...PS-WRATH-VALVE
http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-b...Code=SOLENOIDS
both parts must be bought

Used, the clapper solenoid/valve assembly is only ~ $20

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Old 03-12-2007, 08:45 AM   #11
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Ragin Paintball is really starting to disappoint me. I ordered the RX over two weeks ago and I still haven't gotten a tracking number, let alone seen the marker sitting on my front step. First tehy say they ship after payment clears. That was on the 24th last month. Then he said on teh 2nd he would ship the following Tuesday, which was last week. Here we are on Monday and I'm still waiting.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:18 AM   #12
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Geeze! That really sucks! I've ordered thru them once, and didnt really have any problems at all with the order (other than I got gouged on the price. I mean....9 bucks for 3 orings???). Did they give you a contact number or anything that you can reach them at? If so, I'd give them a call and see if they even have that particular RX in stock. (since they've only got a limited amount of product that they can sell TEXpaintball didnt go into full on production. they only imported x amount of each marker, and that's it).
That really does suck tho, and I hope that you get that worked out!
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:15 PM   #13
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I e-mailed them this morning and I'm waiting on a response. They never provided a tracking number but I've bought things on ebay before where i didn't get one, but I don't know. I bought from these guys because they have a strong reputation. I had it shipped to my house abut I've been in my office all afternoon. It could have showed up after I left but if not I'm going to call them and they can either overnight the marker to me or refund my money and I'll take my business elsewhere. I can buy the separate parts I need for cheaper, it was jsut going to be easier to have a working model in front of me so I could see exactly what I needed to do the conversions in the future.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:44 AM   #14
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Yeah, I know what you mean about it being easier if you've got a working example. Always easier to reverse engineer than to go completely from scratch.

I dunno. Like I said, I've done biz with sean on only one occasion. And he was always really good about keeping in contact and returning emails...BEFORE the sale. After I actually paid for it, I wouldnt hear back from him for a while....if....I heard back from him.
It took about 2 weeks for me to get those orings I bought. But I also had him drop the shipping down to regular plain-jane snail mail for it too. Not via UPS.

Hey Tator- do you still have the pics that you used, when you did your conversion? if Evil could see what the whole setup looks like, that would help him a lot (me too, once my rx gripframe gets here).
While I'm asking....since the fasor is an Air Forward....doesnt the pressure from the solenoid come in thru the cap? or am I thinking backwards?
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:54 AM   #15
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YEah it comes through the ram cap to push on teh ram itself. Licky for me, I can get everything I need from ACP and Scenario Dreams (if I use a T-Board), with the exception of hoses and some screws which I can get locally if what i have on hand won't fit.

I'm still waiting on a response from Sean and I can't find a phone number anywhere to call him.

EDIT: So Sean just sent me an e-mail and apparently there was a delay in getting the markers into the warehouse and then to him. He assured me that it will ship first thing in the morning via USPS and he will provide a tracking number for me. He also assured me that he would upgrade the shipping so that I have it by Friday, Saturday at the latest.
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:25 PM   #16
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I'm glad to hear that he got in touch with you. And that he's gonna upgrade the shipping to get it out to you faster. I hope they arrive to him in the scheduled time, this time.

I did some checking around on ebay, and there's a few alternatives. Prepping, in case you decided to go elsewhere. There's the diablo wrath which uses the same type of solenoid, has breakbeam eyes, and is available in lcd or led. pricier tho. 150-250 bucks
http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.co...ofocusZunknown

Next on the list, is the Diablo Slayer. $180-$250 Pretty close to the same gun, but led version only, and has lesser electronics. http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.co...ofocusZunknown

And finally, The AR-1 Still has the breakbeam eyes, but has a kinda lousy led board. $130-200 bucks. Mark's discount has the lowest prices on those. I've done with him before, and he treated me very well.
http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.co...ofocusZunknown

There is also a fellow over on pbn that is selling a REX r3 for 100 plus shipping.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...0#post32757610
still uses a bouncebeam eye tho. but VERY good electronics, but not sure which kind of noid it uses.

Also, I dont know if this info is still good or not. But here's the contact info that I have for Nick Walker, the Customer Service manager over at Odyssey. He might be able to help you out, about getting noids, rams...parts. Nick Walker, Odyssey Service/CS Manager, 972-438-2900 Ext 10
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:18 PM   #17
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Well, for the frame, board (T-Board), eyes, LPR/front block, standard ram and ram cap, and power harness, I can go to Scenario Dreams. For a Delrin ram and 90* directed ram cap I can go to ACP. Theirs is a real slick one made of Delrin that redirects the air flow 90* so that it pushes directly on the ram rather than up behind it. 2K2 Intimidator bolts can be found all over and would work well, or I can machine my own if I wanted (it's cheaper to buy them for teh purpose of selling to customers tho). I'd still have to find a suitable solenoid as I dnon't trust the one on Scenario Dreams, and also the return spring, but once I know the length, diameter, and weight, I can find them locally. I'm not sure about the valve but the Spyder valves might work, and if not I can machine them if needed. Other than LP hose, macroline, etc., I'm not sure what else I'm missing.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:38 PM   #18
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Yeah, that spring might be the hardest part. I dont really know how they measure the tension on them.

And yeah, damon got the wrong noids when he ordered those. which is why he discontinued the t-kits.

ooooooooooo lookie lookie what I found! TES/T-1 valves! http://cgi.ebay.com/Tes-Valve_W0QQit...cmdZV iewItem Granted...they dont come with the pin, or cupseal, but the cupseals from acp are inexpensive, and work really well. and the pin...all you'd have to do is mill a stock pin so that it is round, rather than having the flat spot for the blowback.
On a stock setup for a TES, we dont recommend swapping out the stock valves. Mainly because they are very high flowing. They've been compared to a rocket valve for flow (but I've never seen any evidence to support that, other than the TES is a mid-low pressure blowback stock. 300-500 psi operating pressure stock).

You might need to sleeve the ram. I know that the lower tube on a tes/t-1 is the same bore as a spyder tube. Because we can use spyder type valves, and strikers (but I cant remember if it's the fatty or the slim striker).
But I dunno on the wrath, rx, or 03. I just know that they use a different ram than the t-1 does. The cap would be made for that type of ram, but it might need a sleeve to fit the tube correctly. or larger orings or something like that.
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:12 PM   #19
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Sean just sent me the tracking number a little while ago. He must have made the trip today to get it in the mail for me, so it'll be here shortly.

If the RX doesn't use a ram sleeve then I'll know I'm golden there. Worst case scenario, I machine my own ram or get the sleeves or shim the O-rings lol, whatever I need to do.

For the spring, I can measure the stock RX spring and then once I have the specs, I can just go to the hardware store for that matter, and find them just as easy.
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:33 PM   #20
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I dont think that the rx uses a sleeve. but I cant say for sure. (damn I wish I knew more about the odyssey guns!)

That's great! I'm glad to hear that he got that out for you. Especially if I made a special trip just to do it.

sounds good so far.
once you get it, would you mind sending me a pic of what the internals setup looks like?
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