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Old 10-05-2006, 08:28 AM   #1
PlayHardDieHard
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Ion vs dm6

I was looking at how a ion shoots and how a dm/pm shoots and it looks like the ion will shoot he same if not better than a dm. What makes a the dm6 better than the ion. They are both spool valve. When upp'd don't they have the same perfomance just different boards and companys?
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:32 AM   #2
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What makes you think it'll shoot the same or better? For one, the production value and quality of a DM6 will way outclass any Ion, no matter how many aftermarket parts are purchased.

But to give a more technical answer, the DM6 runs at a much lower pressure. This translates into quieter, less kick, and better efficiency. The DM6 comes with the UL frame stock, which is one of the most comfortable frames available. Also it comes with a UL barrel, which is of much better quality than the stock Ion barrel.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:02 AM   #3
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There's quite a bit of difference between a $200 and a $1200 marker.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:26 AM   #4
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Quality. You get what you pay for. If you have to compare these two markers and wonder which is better, then obviously you haven't done enough research...

The DM6 will be more reliable with better quality parts. Dye also has great Tech support. If you want to shoot accuratly and consistantly at high rates of fire, then you have to pay for it. If you are on a budget, then buy a used one. They aren't called high end guns for nothing. There is a reason we all shoot high end guns. Don't think you be be a special case because you won't be.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:38 AM   #5
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better quality, faster, lower pressure, smoother, better inline, better barrel, better feedneck, better gripframe and trigger, better board. they use the same (or similar) operation but the Ion is at the bottom of the ladder and the DM6 is at the top.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:44 AM   #6
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This is like saying "a Spyder is a pop-it valve style gun just like an Ego, so what is the difference?"

As stated, you get what you pay for. The DM6 will be much higher quality.

A DM6 is perfect right out of the box. How much do you have to add in aftermarket parts to get an ion shooting and performing like it?
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:12 AM   #7
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How much do you have to add in aftermarket parts to get an Ion shooting and performing like a DM6?
Too much...
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:13 AM   #8
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What i was saying if you take an ion and a dm6 put the same barrel and same reg same board wouldn't both Preforme the same. I was not talking about stock ion vs stock dm6.

Alot of of people said that it's better quality and lower pressure, How does a dm6 get lower pressure, don't both guns opperate the same way? I mean exact same way. Look at how the guns opperate in the stickys the dm and the ion look almost like clones.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:40 AM   #9
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Your kidding right, you actually have to ask this? The only thing the ion has over a DM6 is that it's lighter. The DM6 gets lower pressure mainly because it has 2 regs one is the inline the second is the LPR which knocks the pressure down to a little below 100psi i believe.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:01 PM   #10
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This guy reminds me of Ion owners when the price drop came around.
"Man this $200 gun is better than all your DMs, PMs, and Shockers!!"
Not to flame just saying...
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:35 PM   #11
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Yes, they are both are spool valves, of course it will look like they are working the same way.

Like I said before: take a Spyder and put it next to an Ego. if you break it down, they work the same way. You pull the trigger, the hammer which is connected directly to the bolt moves forward. The hammer then strikes the valves, poping them open which fires the paintball. Then both the hammer and bolt return to the back position waiting for the next shot.

So why is an Ego so much better then a Spyder? Quality, and the parts that are in it.

An Ion has a plastic body. a DM6 is a 1 piece block of Aluminum that has been milled. as iliveforthis mentioned, the DM6 has an LPR which the Ion lacks.

it doesn't matter if some of the parts are the same when you put them side by side to compare them, other parts are still different. EX: what about the solenoid? that will effect the speed of the gun. What about the material of the O-rings? what about the lube used? what about the micro-honing of the inside of the gun?

You may say I am a SP hater that jumped on the band wagon. But i did some of my research, and talked to plenty of people about their products. SP uses a lower grade Aluminum then other PB companies. SP does not have the same Quality Control that other companies have. Look at almost every SP gun out there. Either the owner loves it and think it is the best thing since sliced bread, or it is CONSTANTLY breaking down on them. You don't see that with any member of the DM line.

Please don't try and compare guns that have a price tag difference of nearly $1000. If you want to, then explain to me why a Spyder, if it is given the same reg, barrel and circuit board as an Ego, will not be as good.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:54 PM   #12
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Well, I wouldnt go as far as saying that an EGO works the same as a spyder...an ego works more like a timmy works which works moreso than somewhat like a spyder. But, both guns differ in several ways.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:43 PM   #13
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i think that diehard is just trying to stir up the old "ion is better than ____" debate. you say that you've looked in the stickies diehard? well then i suggest that you take another longer, harder one. you clearly only know the bare minimum about these markers. infact, i doubt that you've ever held or shot either, never mind breaking one down and examining the internals.

think before you post next time.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:45 PM   #14
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Well, that about ends it right there...

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Old 10-05-2006, 03:11 PM   #15
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well to aswer question with an analogy, hey a civic and a ferrari are both cars with internal combustion engines that work teh same way? dont both those cars drive the same? its teh same kind of thing. first off, different operation. both spool, but an ion is a blow forward spool valve where as a matrix is a true traditional spool valve. secondly, the fuse bolt is much better designed and higher end performance than any ion design/bolt will be. thirdly, the uses of higher wuality machining, better controling parts like uses of lprs, very good solenoids and baord and of cause a gun body that make the whole package high quality and great to play with (balanced, durable, stramlined, light etc). but mainly shocker and trixs are just striahgt up better designed guns. a ferrari is just a straight up better designed car. better design, more work put into it, better wuality, and better parts = better performance every time. a wrath is a FASOR design, but a infinity legend will put it to shame even though it uses the same system.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:07 PM   #16
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you get what you pay for......
DM6>>>>>>>>>>>>>ion
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:10 PM   #17
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How much do you have to add in aftermarket parts to get an ion shooting and performing like it?
markers do not perform, they operate. can lots of aftermarket parts make an ion operate like a DM6? no.

both markers are spool valve type markers, however the DM6 is both LP closed bolt and LP open bolt, where as the ion only uses LP to open the bolt and HP to close the bolt. the two markers use different methods of operation and have a different feel as a result. no amount of AM parts will change that.

the DM6 has more desierable shooting characteristics and is considered to have a superior method of operation under the context of "feel". it also costs a lot more as a result of it's design. how well a marker shoots is 2nd to personal preference and is all that really matters when comparing any two markers, aside from personal preference that is. DM6 > ion

the DM6 is the better shooting marker of the two, however, i would not call it a supeior design. how well designed a marker is, is an engineering question, not a question of how well it shoots. you cannot grade a marker's design soley on how well it shoots and ignore other factors intergral to a marker's design. this is my peeve.

[angrynerdrant]IMO, and this is very IMO, as different designers/engineers will have their own opinion on what they believe to be the rules for design. some take qualatative attributes as the only factor worth considering and ignore everything else. others will settle for qualatative equality and stress cost and ease of production. FYI, i favor the latter.

i personally believe that the ion is a superior designed marker. to reiterate, i think the ion has a superior method of operation. no, the ion does not shoot as nice as the DM6, however it is in the ballpark. i believe that qualiatative equality is good enough. if you can produce something that is "in the ballpark" or "almost as good" or "good enough" and you can do it while meeting a vary demanding design criteria and overcoming very though engineering obsticals then you have designed something very brillant. anyone can design something that is qualiatatively, very good (IE: it "performs" great), but ignore though design challanges and drive up the cost through complexity.

IMO, the perfectly designed anything will always be simplier and better "performing" than anything that is not so well designed. clearly, complexity is the enemy of good design. <--- to achieve this is the holy grail of design. in any context, if something is perfectly designed, it will be better performing something than it's predecessors, competitors, be more simple than it's predecessors and competitiors AND be cheaper and more numerous as a result.

think steam car vs. internal combustion engine car

the ion is more simple a design than the DM6, and it's cheaper and more numerus, however it is not a better performing marker. the ion fails in that respect. someday there may be a marker that is more simple, cheaper, and better performing a marker than the DM6, but so far it does not exist. the ion is not perfectly designed, but it is very well designed IMO. the ion is a very well designed marker becasue it was designed to meet a very low price, a price that for the marker's level of "performance" exceeds anything else in the price range and does it while meeting and overcoming some very though design challanges that other, more expensive markers, do not have to meet.

that is why it is the superior designed marker IMO.[angrynertrant]
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:30 PM   #18
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since they basically explained it alll.... go test both of them and you'll understand it more. the dm6 is $1000 more, but it wont shoot $1000 better, it just costs that much because of marketing and stuff. ($1200 is 6 times more than $200, but the dm6 wont shoot 6x better)

budget gun vs. top of the line gun
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:09 AM   #19
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algernon explained why the dms are better thanks

No i wasn't trying to start any bs about the ion, i honestly didn't know. I have shot ions, almost everyone I play with has an ion but i have never shot a dm of any kind, only seen them in photos and stuff. When i was reading the sticky about how high ends work i noticed that the ion and the dm look the exact same. Which lead me to belive maybe the ion is just as good.

fyi I don't belive in the "you get what you pay for" talk

Last edited by PlayHardDieHard : 10-06-2006 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:53 AM   #20
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[quote=

fyi I don't belive in the you get what you pay for stuff.[/QUOTE]

Then you have never built computers before. Or built a new home or remodelled a home. Better quality parts lost longer and are typically more efficient.

One last analogy for you though. Let me start by saying this isn't a pb sniper, blah blah blah analogy. So don't start saying how inaccurate pbs are. blah blah blah.
Look at real guns. You can buy a .308 in the ranges of $500 - $1,200+. Why the difference? They both shoot the same. They operate the same way. You can shoot the same bullet out of it. Heck for that matter you can shoot the bullet out of one gun. reload the casing. Then shoot that same exact casing from the other gun. Why the price difference? Better quality. The higher end gun will have a better barrel made to better specs. The inner working pieces will be made of higher quality parts. This gives you longevity. The better pieces will be less likely to jam and break and work smoother. This leads to accuracy. All of this will make that same bullet more CONSISTANT and RELIABLE for EVERY shot.

With pb guns, lower operating pressure means, less kick. Less kick makes you're more accurate because you aren't "readjusting" as much.

Look at it this away. Whenever it sounds to good to be true, then it normally is. They have to make cuts somewhere.
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