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Old 06-03-2008, 07:36 PM   #1
criz3r
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Dangerous Power Fusion F7 vs Proto Matrix Rail/Proto Matrix Rail SE (please help!)

Hey guys, still deciding on a marker...

I can get a Fusion F7 for $220 used, PMR for $225, and a PMR SE for $225. They're all used, but they are all LNIB. They have everything that came with it. They're all stock.

Which is the best deal? Which is the best marker? Please help ASAP. These are pretty much trades.
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:18 AM   #2
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The Fusion is the best deal and the best marker out of the three imo. The PMR has rubber and cheap plastic all over it that needs to be replaced pretty soon after getting it. The PMR SE replaces all of that rubber/plastic with aluminum, except the trigger frame. You can get replacement trigger frames, but they can be in excess of $100 just for that. Also, PMRs are gas hogs and covered in orings. The Fusion is heavier and a bit louder, but it will be incredibly more gas efficient and has a LPR for more fine tuning.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:00 AM   #3
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well why would you take a lesser pmr for teh same price? so rule that out.

fusion or pmr? well do you have a preference for spool valve or ram driven? have you ever shot these guns b4?

is 225-250 your max price range?
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:36 AM   #4
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Yeah forget the PMR and center on the F7 and PMR SE. They are both decent guns w/ IMO probably the F7 being generally the better gun. Try and shoot them both if you can and see which one you like the best, that's always a good deciding factor. And just so you know you can get F7's for around $215-$250 brand new. If you can go a little higher in your price range you can probably pick up a nice used timmy or Mini as well.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:57 AM   #5
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I have never shot either, but...

Which is less maintenance? Which is the better marker in the long run? Also, I read/saw that you had to remove the grips to change the modes on a Fusion. Is this true?

Also, my budget is $250 or less. I'm spending about $90 on a loader, $100 on a tank (peanut), and whatever is left on a mask.

So... $440 plus mask on what I'm buying.

Off-topic a bit: What loader can I get for cheap that will keep up with my marker? PMR/Fusion

Last edited by criz3r : 06-04-2008 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criz3r View Post
I have never shot either, but...

Which is less maintenance? Which is the better marker in the long run?Long run? AS in, for upgrading in the future? The most upgradeable would be the PMR. Also, I read/saw that you had to remove the grips to change the modes on a Fusion. Is this true?The PMR has to do the same thing to change modes.

Also, my budget is $250 or less. I'm spending about $90 on a loader, $100 on a tank (peanut), and whatever is left on a mask.Your mask should the most important piece of gear, Get that first. And where are you getting a $100 peanut tank from? Used im guessing?

So... $440 plus mask on what I'm buying.

Off-topic a bit: What loader can I get for cheap that will keep up with my marker? PMR/Fusion Torque, or Eyeforce. Both are fairly inexpensive and do pretty good jobs.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:25 AM   #7
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I thought that the PMR was you press a button and pull the trigger to change modes... I forgot the word for that.

Anyways, yeah, I'm getting a used peanut for only $100.

I meant in the long run as which will have less problems, and which is easier to take care of. I don't abuse anything I own, I take good care of it. But, when the marker does have a problem, which is easier to fix, clean, ect?
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:29 AM   #8
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Nope, I have the PMR SE, you have to open up the grip, flip a switch, then do a combo of button pressing and trigger pulls to change stuff.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:35 AM   #9
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Nope, I have the PMR SE, you have to open up the grip, flip a switch, then do a combo of button pressing and trigger pulls to change stuff.
Okay, so which will last me longer? I mean like will be less likely to break, have to replace parts... ect ect.

I take good care of my stuff, but I just want to know which will last.

Also, I like the Fusion because of the stock On/Off ASA.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criz3r View Post
Okay, so which will last me longer? I mean like will be less likely to break, have to replace parts... ect ect.

I take good care of my stuff, but I just want to know which will last.

Also, I like the Fusion because of the stock On/Off ASA.
They are both really well made guns, maybe the fusion a little more so, and they will both last probably as long as you want them to with proper maintenance.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:18 AM   #11
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How do the internals on the F7's work are the blowbacks??? like a tippman???? I am just wondering,
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:38 AM   #12
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Good model.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:15 PM   #13
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Its a FASOR system I believe.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #14
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The F7 (and F8 i think as well) are FASORS. They share some similarity's to blowbacks like being stacked tubed, valve, and a linked ram and hammer but that's about it. FASORS are poppet valves that instead of having an air controlled return via the noid it uses a spring to reset the gun. FASORS and poppet valve guns are generally far in advance to blowbacks.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:24 PM   #15
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I got my F7 new for $250.

Don't forget the cost of upgrades.
The F7 really doesn't need any.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:56 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criz3r View Post
I meant in the long run as which will have less problems, and which is easier to take care of. I don't abuse anything I own, I take good care of it. But, when the marker does have a problem, which is easier to fix, clean, ect?
Probably the F7.

Because....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey View Post
plus, its a FASOR design, which is extremely simple and robust. its not going to have stupid issues like stripped frame holes and banjo leaks

its pretty hard to screw up a FASOR
The PMR SE does still have plastic parts. Even with good care and maintenance, plastic will be far more likely to break over the long run, especially considering the intensity with which many paintball games are played.

All DP markers are fairly easy to take care of. The F7, as it has an LPR, will require that much more lubing & cleaning (of the LPR), but still and yet it has a very small amount of o-rings overall (not as few as a G3, but hey...).

Just as a disclaimer, I do own a DP gun and so I am biased. However, I did end up choosing DP over a Proto and I am very happy with my choice.
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Last edited by Tyrone2412 : 06-23-2008 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:13 AM   #17
iliveforthis99
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The plastic isn't exactly a plastic plastic, it's a polymer plastic that actually makes it very strong and yet light weight. I've yet to hear of or see any snapped PMR, SLG, Vibe, SP1, or the "plastic" Spyder frames. I have though seen bent and shattered alloy frames. Now i'm sure that there are people who have broke their "plastic" frames but it's got to be at such a low point that it really doesn't matter.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:45 AM   #18
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hey honestly i would go wit the f7 the f7 sure you have to take the grips off to change the setting. but it has switches instead of lights and pushing buttons and that fancy stuff its simple and plan its nice for once. i own on and play with a buddy who has an etek 1 and my fusion will stay right with it sure its a little heavy but i love it. i have an ion too and i would chose the f7 over it any day.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iliveforthis99 View Post
The F7 (and F8 i think as well) are FASORS. They share some similarity's to blowbacks like being stacked tubed, valve, and a linked ram and hammer but that's about it. FASORS are poppet valves that instead of having an air controlled return via the noid it uses a spring to reset the gun. FASORS and poppet valve guns are generally far in advance to blowbacks.
Refering a Fusion, Legend or Diadem a FASOR is like calling a Porche a VW.

I just got off mission, so I feel like being a but-hole. No offence '99 you're a good guy. Kudos to you all for picking up on the FASOR lingo. "FASOR" is actually a buzword Mike Spurlock (sp?) coined to refer to his spring returned system in the hordes of M3/odyssey/diablo/REX derivitive markers he spawned with the modular Forward Air Spring Return spring-returned-ram he engineered for use in spyder type bodies. Brilliant system. Back in the day you could even buy the system stand alone as a "zip kit" and throw it in your spyder.

I was one of the ones who helped bring FASOR into popularity in refering to spring returned electros among the online paintball community. My bad. As brilliant as FASOR may be from an engineering and mechanical design standpoint and as wonderful an acronym it may be to refer to spring returned electros in general, it is incorrect.

The fusion and AM diadem are superior shooting markers than any traditional FASOR product. The spring returned electros of the FASOR variety typically have a greater cycling mass, operating pressure and a more simple ram assembly (literally an endcap and hammer fit together to make a ram) than other spring returned electros such as the high performance fusion, diadem or legend.

Spring return electros have been around as a cheaper and more simple alturnative to full pneumatic since the BKO. The BKO pioneered such a design back when electromechanicals where just begining to trip sears. The spyder/clone bodied FASOR markers massproduced in Asia popuarized and firmly established spring-return as a viable and proven operating system. The AM Diadem, Infinity legend and more recently, the DP Fusion are high-performance high-price spring returns aimed at the high-end to mid-end electropneumatic markers typically offering more milling, anodizing and trim for the price than a comparitively priced full electropneumatic marker of the same performance stats.

Fusions are awesome markers for the money. So are PMRs. I'd get the PMR SE. I'm pretty sure Fusions don't operate at 145psi nor offer the AM upgrades the PMR does. As mentioned be prepaired to imidiately drop over $100 into the PMR to get a aluminum feedneck and frame. If that's not for you, get the Fusion.

I rock an old arse Diadem with a LP mod and am looking for a Legend to pick up.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerj_9 View Post
hey honestly i would go wit the f7 the f7 sure you have to take the grips off to change the setting. but it has switches instead of lights and pushing buttons and that fancy stuff its simple and plan its nice for once. i own on and play with a buddy who has an etek 1 and my fusion will stay right with it sure its a little heavy but i love it. i have an ion too and i would chose the f7 over it any day.
Look at the date of the last post before YOU post. This thread has been dead for a very long time now and there's no point resurrecting it.

Anyway since this is back up.

The AM Diadem, if it's the gun i'm thinking of i think i remember it. Saw it in a mag a few years ago when it came out and looked into it. Seems a nice gun and i was thinking of getting if i had a job back then.
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