* SDE - Solenoid Direct Electro
* Color access mode display (CAMD)
* Anti chop eye with override switch
* Semi, 3 round burst, 6 round burst and full auto firing modes
* Reactive response trigger - up to 22 shots per second (semi mode only)
* Delrin bolt
* Custom milled receiver
* Custom milled double trigger
* 2 piece 14" tournament grade barrel
* In line regulator with gauge
* Adjustable rate of fire
* Top cocking bolt
* Straight feed with adjustable feed port
* Custom machined drop forward
* Adjustable trigger pull
* Aluminum trigger frame with custom millwork
* Low pressure regulatir
* Antil double feed
* External recharge port
* Battery power indicator
* Operates on compressed air
The Raven Primal is older, so while it may be available used and in a few cases new, it is not commonly available anymore.
Ok first off, I put accuracy in both good and bad cause if you dont chop then the accuracy is good but once you chop you are screwed unless you have a squeegie on you. Ok I have played 4 games with this gun and i have to say it was kinda dissapointing. The vision didnt work too well and barrel was just crap. On my 3rd game the bolt jammed on me and I literally had to kit it against the bunker to get the think on jamed. Also the price set for these guns is ridiculous. Your better off getting an impulse vision,BKO, ion, or the new wrath by diablo. Also this gun really doesnt have its own original look. The first time I saw this gun I thought it was a spyder pilot and a bit like the raven nexium.
Ok now for some good things. This gun when it didnt mess up shot really fast. I got about 15 but its capped at 22bps i think. Its also light. Lot lighter then my impulse.
Truth is, with other better and cheaper guns this gun cant compare with them anymore. Im giving it 5 because of its lack of performance and price.
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion on the comments page.
Period of Product Use:
3 of 6 people found this review helpful.
Viewloader Revolution W/ X-Board
Crossfire 3000psi / 68 ci compressed air tank
14'' JJ performance barrel
Barrel( stock is alright )
Regulator( has a little bit of a drop off )
Air hog, expect to play 2 games on a 68/3000 tank
Great gun for a spyder, price is kinda high but u get wat u pay for - 22bps, eyes, accuracy, easy to field strip.... If u leave it stock its alright but i would definitly add upgrades such as an on/ off valve, barrel maybe a freak or all american barrel, ur gonna need a fast hopper so i would get halo b or empire b, new reg stock reg has a little bit of a drop off after 13bps. Only down side i think is how much of an air hog this gun is.
Great product for the price... dont buy from kingman unless u wanna pay 600 dollars when u can get it for less than 450 on most sites
8 out of 10
Last edited on Monday, May 23rd, 2005 at 7:43 pm PST
Raven Primal, Apache Ricochet LCD, J&J Edge Barrel Kit, 68/45 pure energy
Force fed hopper (Halo B, Empire Reloader B)
New Bolt (Non-Venturi)
Speed - verry fast marker. The bolt only moves a little more than an inch which makes for verry fast cycling times. The trigger isn't the best, but it's still easy to walk.
Accuracy - A barrel kit is a must. With a good paint to barrel match this gun is the most accurate marker i've shot so far.
Consistancy - the stock regulator is the best i've seen. Since i got the marker, i've only set the velocity once and it has been shooting within 4FPS of 285 the whole time.
Eyes - Not the best, but definately good enough. Without a force fed hopper it is too easy to stutter step the trigger and turn the Primal into a blender, so turn on the eyes! I have the Apache Ricochet (20 bps) and my first day with the Primal it chopped like no other without the eyes, then i turned them on and two and a half cases later and still no chopps.
Gas Hog - About 1000 shots from 4500psi
Stock Barrel - Sucks, but then again don't they all?
Price - MSRP $550 (yeah right), get it for $450 which is still a bit pricey. If you can find it for $400 or less, it would be well worth it.
Overall this is a great marker. Right now the price tag is a bit steep.
The Primal was made for a force fed hopper so get yourself a halo B if you don't want to use the eyes. And the 3 round/6 round burst, and full auto settings are all adjustable from 8 - 13 BPS, which is cool, but not allowed at most fields.
Yeah it looks like a spyder, but it is definetly a much better marker, better construction, more consistant, more accurate, more durable. so it is certainly not just a decked out spyder.
I'm only giving it a 9 because it's not perfect, but it's damn close.
9 out of 10
Last edited on Tuesday, March 15th, 2005 at 1:24 pm PST
Spyder TL-X, Boomstick 14" spyder thread
Raven Primal, Boomstick 14", Crossfire 45/4500 high output, Evo II
Regulator, Barrel, Drop forward
Fast rate of fire, tournament quality, doesn't chop.
Regulator, drop forward, gas hog, heavy, too pricey for what it is, ASA.
I was finally able to play with my Primal after a week of bad weather and I am pleased with it overall but do have some issues with the marker.
First, it's rather nice and stylish and the eyes are a very nice touch. I didn't actually play with the eyes on during the time I played but I only chopped one ball out of one-thousand. Mainly because I was fooling around with it on full auto at a target. It's also very accurate, fast, and decently quiet enough for me. It kept up with the DM4s' and Timmys I was playing against, so I didn't feel like my shots were wasted at any time or I was dragging the team down.
With the speed though, I went through balls like no tomorrow. I've never used this many balls before and you definately need a fast hopper. I actually need to upgrade the Evo II to keep up, which I suppose is a good thing for most people that it can fire that fast.
As I said before it doesn't chop, but I didn't use the eyes so I really can't say anything about that. But one chop out of a thousand I think is just amazing. Not to mention it's a delrin bolt for those who like those, but it is a spring return at the same time. And for what it is, the stock barrel isn't too crappy. I let my friend use it on my TL-X and he was shooting rather well and accurate with it, a few wild shots on it but pretty impressive for a stock barrel.
I do think the drop forward needs replacing, it just doesn't feel really sturdy when you unscrew your tank. Something about it makes me want to change it for a nicer one as most people do anyway. The one nice thing about it is the fact the bolts are in a straight line, not off in the corners like other Kingman models so you can pretty much put on any drop forward you like and not have to restrict yourself to only a few models.
I did have problems with mine though, out of the box with no tweaking it was shooting anywhere from 235-320 at the chrono. Absolutely horrid that it would fluctuate that badly, even with a consistant Crossfire tank on it. I went to the airsmith to get the spring trimmed, which of course I couldn't because of the set up it has. That's when the problems started, I waited a good 45 minutes for him to tweak it and fix it so it would fire since something happened with it, I think the pressure dropped for some strange reason. After a while he did fix it and it fired fine at about 200 psi, even though it should be higher.
Shooting at 200 psi didn't bother me do much, just going to have to change out the regulator. Seeing as it also started leaking on me because the bolt jammed forward do to rapid firing, it only happened once though and I think it was one of those freak little incidents. So the regulator definately needs to be replaced seeing as it drops to 0 before recharging to 200, granted it's only a fraction of a second but the reg just -has- to be changed to stop this so it fires consistantly.
Last thing I didn't like, it's a huge gas hog. I must have refilled my tank a good five times over three hours on a 45/4500 tank. The tank is rated for around 700 shots before a refill, more like 200 with this thing. I think the regulator being changed would really correct this problem though but only time will tell.
Another thing is the ASA, it's crappy. It's the exact same one they use on all the other models and it works fine, for the most part. Except that when I fire my first shot or two, the tank starts to unscrew itself and I have to tighten it again otherwise it just doesn't fire obviously. So I have to waste time and retighten it before going into a match or risk having the tank fall off, bull crap. Needs to go.
EDIT: I recently contacted Kingman about the problems I addressed in the review, mainly about the Regulator and Gas usage problems. I received an email back with some rather good news, here is the email in it's entirety.
---"Our technicians have come up with ways to improve the performance and efficiency of the Raven Primal, if you would like us to perform a performance enhancement service on your marker all you have to do is send your marker in via UPS or FedEx and the service will be free of charge. Make sure you include a short note describing the markers performance. Also include all your contact information, so that our technicians can contact you if need be."----
Of course, what these changes are exactly aren't really known to me but it's still good news in my book considering this is a FREE service by Kingman. Despite all the problems that people complain about with Kingman products, at least their customer service is A+ in my book.
FINAL EDIT: Okay, turns out the Primal wasn't as good as I thought after a while. One, it's bigger/longer then other markers and it's heavy as anything. I thought my TL-X was heavy, well the Raven feels like it's a good pound to a pound and a half heavier. And after much more research and thought, I have to agree with SilentButDeadly, good gun but defiantely not worth the money. Especially for the work you would have to put into it such as sending it in for a performance tune up. You can definately find something better out there especially with the Ion and Diablo Wrath out now.
Overall I really nice gun for those who can't afford a Timmy or those higher end guns. Nice feel, stylish, definately turns heads when you bring it out and people haven't seen one. Most importantly, in my opinion, it can keep up with those higher end markers but needs tweaking to stay on par. The regulator -has to be replaced-. The stock regulator is just crap the way it fluxes, get one that is more stable, I'm thinking an Evil Detonator for mine personally.
A very nice stepforward for Kingman but it falls just a little bit short in the quality. And it's too heavy and bulky, not worth the money at all sadly.
6 out of 10
Last edited on Friday, April 29th, 2005 at 7:50 pm PST
Very Fast,Great gun for under 600,easy to take care of,and reliable company
The gun is lolud and uses alot of air
If you are looking for a fast gun for under 600 this is the best. My buddys have shockers impulse timmys and tontons this gun will stay and if not leave this gun speed wise. I haved plaied with this gun about 20 times and yet have had a problem with it. Also let somebody who knows what they are doing put a little trigger job on it...
I promise you will not be dissapointed with this gun but you will need a barrel, fast loader, and a 4500 psi tank..
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion on the comments page.
Period of Product Use:
6 of 48 people found this review helpful.
Similar Products Used:
04 BKO, Impulse, Timmy, Angel, E-cockers, etc....
Black/red 2k2 Timmy, .689 CP 1 piece, , frenzy board v. 113, cip full force bolt, cip ram, cip ram adjuster, new style clamping feedneck, trinity uni, Halo B
Red 04 BKO "extreme," BL Torp, Trinity Uni, .689 CP 1 piece, Halo B
Black pre 2k ANS right feed cocker, .689 CP 1 piece, WGP stock regs, WGP ACM ram, orracle valve and springs, Shocktech bomb 3-way, ANS hinge frame, Kapp patriot cocking rod, system x beaver tail, Halo B
Barrel, reg maybe (didn't test it much).
Fast (for a kingman product), light trigger pull, eyes
Price, it just can't compete with other guns in it's price range.
First of all, I'd like to point out that I only dry fired this gun at a field. I never shot paint through, never took it to the chrono, or other things that people do to test new guns out. In fact, the only reason that I'm writing this review is because of the 4 other terrible reviews for this gun.
Ok, now that that's out of the way I can begin first with the speed/trigger/circuit board of the Primal. Before I shot this gun, I figured it would have a weighty trigger pull much like that of an E-spyder (same company, kingman). To my surprise, the pull was quite light and easily walkable. I didn't note any adjustments on the trigger, but those could have been overlooked because I didn't have much time to check over the gun. I got up to around 13-14bps (if I am any judge) pretty easily, and I'm not exactly the fastest speed shooter. The new cap of 22bps in kingman's new boards is a vast improvement over the older 14bps cap, the new board also seems more responsive and better at picking up trigger pulls than the older ones too. It had a little bounce in the trigger, but it was very unnoticeable. Also, the eye switch is easily located and accessible on the back of the trigger frame. I did not get a chance to test the eyes because like I said before, I didn't put any paint through it.
The actual functionality of the gun itself is practically identical to that of ICD's BKO. The Primal has the same basic setup and design as a BKO and it has a spring return ram too. Kingman was a little vague in the description of the operation of the gun, describing it as a "SDE system" (Solenoid Direct Electro). This caused me to believe that it could have been a full electro (like an impulse) but sadly, it remains a spring returned firing system (which limits the rate of fire to around 18bps)
With that said, this pretty much brings to a close on what I can really say about the Primal without further testing. If you read any review for this gun, make it this one. I'm not trying to brag, but the other 4 reviews are biased, and written by those who have little real paintball experience(actually the reviews written by donut10591 and <Sch> Raven arne't bad, but they're still very biased).
In conclusion, this gun is definitely NOT worth the money. What you're basically paying ~$550 for is a BKO with eyes. That's it. BKO's can be had for $300 new, and older ones for even cheaper. Furthermore, you could get a B2k with pds for the same price and it's better that the primal in every way. I'm not saying that this is a bad gun, and if the price was around $350 it would be great, unfortunately it is very expensive and that's a huge drawback.
4 out of 10
Last edited on Saturday, February 5th, 2005 at 1:17 pm PST
reg(stock one is good)
new drop foward(looks)
Trigger is very fast on auto or walking
Eyes are great
this gun is great I feel dumb for getting a DM4 while I could have got this gun,this gun is great out of the box I was suprised of how fast it shot on auto it was amazing I TOOK THAT BABY to speed ball or x ball at my field and that thing ripped it was dead on accurate my buddies were amazed they even got ones for themselves and runs great on c02 or compressed air u will need a fast hopper and this gun is worth every penny.
This product is great I recommend it to everyone who is a fast walker and loves auto
and plus it has great eyes and a wonderful anti chop bolt if u are looking for a fast gun get this one I WOULD give it a 20 if I can don't play around get this gun it is great.
Like any intermediate level marker a new barrel is a must, microline, new ASA, a bolt too
Good Regulator, 1 year warrenty, delrin bolt, break beam eyes, fast
Stock barrel, angled drop forward
Regulator: It's a fairly consitant reg, Although aftermarket products are usually an improvement.
Warrenty: One year is pretty good, all things that will gop wrong will hapeen in the first months of use.
Delrin Bolt: I honestly expected Kingman to put in a cheap metal bolt... they actually suprised me for once.
Break Beam Eyes: If you are planning on shooting fast YOU NEED THIS!!! Whatever they say about anti chop bolt is total bull****. I have choped shot before with that stock bolt.
Fast: Fast means fast enough so you won't have to worry about out shooting the marker. be honest, how often do you shoot consitantly beyond 22 bps?
Spring Return Bolt: Yea, that's right, there isn't a return ram to re-cock the marker, I could see the spring wearing down an needing to be replaced, hopefully by then they'll have an air return kit out.
Remember to oil your marker before using it! Some companies don't oil their markers in the factory before sending them out!
You can use CO2 on the Primal. But liquid CO2 CAN and WILL screw up the solenoid! so use N2 ONLY!
I'd reccomend this to anyone who can tinker with their markers a bit, So intermediate players would be looking for somehting like this. For beginners this is out of your price range so get a cheap spyder and upgrade. And, obviosly, advanced players have already made up their minds and know what they like.
I give it a 10 because in the month I've had it it hasn't failed me. I'll be sure to update this review if I find any problems.
10 out of 10
Last edited on Sunday, October 31st, 2004 at 3:23 pm PST
OTP 10" Stainless Steel Barrel, System X Drop Forward
Stainless Steel Barrel/Freak System, System X Drop Forward, or any Aftermarket Drop Forward that you like. New barrel a must!!!
Anti Chop Eye, Delrin Bolt, Shoots Over 20+BPS in Semi Auto Mode
No real weaknesses for a gun thats under $600
This is a solid gun for tourney players that want to have a bump up from Spyders. It is fast, has a breakbeam eye (same as Timmy) and will keep up with ANY gun on the field. The best thing about this gun besides its speed, is that it is under $600. Good luck finding a Timmy in good condition for under $600. I've been playing Paintball for a very long time and this gun is a huge improvement over any tricked Spyder. Other Spyders cannot keep up with the Primal. I was not looking to spend $1000 for a Timmy so I got the Primal for $500. If new marker budget is in the Super Marker $1,000 range then I recommend a System X Enemy (Will be out VERY soon) if not I recommend the Primal. It is backed by a one year warranty from Kingman/Raven, and if their is any problem with it they will fix it for you without any problems.
If your marker budget is in the $500 -$700 range get this gun. If not, then get a higher end gun like a Timmy or System X Enemy. I got this gun because I wanted to bump up from playing with my tricked out Spyder and try something better. The Primal is real quick, can lay down a lot of paint for you. It will keep up with you no matter how fast you think you can shoot. If you have any questions please feel free to email me I will be happy to help you.
Only black color(for now i suppose)
Aight here's the review... When i ordered this gun to the proshop, (from pb gear) it came in a nice box... opened the box, and there was a spider? Literally it was walking around (i have to include that...) Anyways i opened it, read the manual and looked at the gun. Nice, for a 2nd made gun from a fairly new company. I did the "scratch test" i went outside took a tiny rock and rubbed it very slighly on the underside of the gun. It had a little hairline scratch that was 1cm in length. Milling is weak, but it looks nice. So i took it out, with an evlution 2. 500 paintballs (drax blaze). It ripped and it actually went at least 15 bps. Then a chop. I noticed it was one without the z board. So i got the one with it.. and it kept up 20 bps. Chop. Third time i looked, i turned the eye on. Then it caps at abount 17-20 bps. Yes it is an "anti" chop bolt but i chopped didn't i? I did put on the eye and put in a revolution to try it out but it still chopped once but.. i overshot. The barrel was what i didnt' like, it was loud and fugly but what can you expect from a stock barrel (some markers). When i screwed in the tank i closed my eyes thinking the reg would mess up.. but it didn't!! I didn't like how it was only in matte black too but it just came out so... After that, i have to say over priced. It is a good gun but it isn't worth 400 bucks. The most is 350. Spend the 50 on upgrades.
This gun is nice and i recommend it to .... intermediates. Easy to take apart, nice stock reg, 17-20 bps, eye (not the best eye but it still has it..) Nice box with a funny spider. What more can you ask for? 9.5-10 so.. 10